Gated communities: a rant

[Coventina]

I hate gated communities.

People who live in gated communities are anti-inclusivenss, anti-community, anti-neighborliness, anti-love. Everything about a gated community advertises the worst about human nature.

Gated communities should NOT receive ANY services that are underwritten by the rest of the city that they are a part of: water, sewer, police, fire, etc. If the rest of us are not good enough to drive down their streets, why should we help pay for their lifestyle? Let them hire their own police and fire protection. Let them build their own water treatment plant.

Gated communities are ANTI-AMERICAN!!!!!

[tjwash]

1. I know.

A bunch of rich people that don't want to pay their taxes, isolating themselves from the rest of society, so that they can hang out together and figure out how to bleed everyone dry into their bank accounts.

It's very Communist China when you think about it. The ultra rich one percent out there do the exact same thing.

[miss_kitty]

2. bill gates grew up in a gated community

that william boeing started. i applied for a job as a gardener at one of the mansions there...i was telling a friend of mine who had to leave Bonn in a hurry in 1939 with her family i did not get the job there and she said "well good. because they don't allow jews or blacks to live there" oops...i was kinda glad i did not get that job...stupid white girl...i forgot about THOSE covenants.

[flamingyouth]

7. Ah, The Highlands

I grew up south of there (in North Beach, not far from Golden Gardens). I remember driving by the entrance to The Highlands all the time, wondering what it was like down in there. Finally, my family went to a christening at the little church in there. I couldn't believe how unimpressive the houses looked! Some of them looked just like my tract 1962-era house I grew up in!

On edit - or are you talking about Broadmoor? It occurs to me that I don't actually know where Bill Gates grew up. :D

[miss_kitty]

15. you are correct

it was the Highlands...i grew up on 145th and 28th a 1962 era tract housing thing, then Lake Forest Park went to Shorecrest...Gates and those guys went to Lakeside, whose sports cheer was "That's alright! That's okay! You'll all work for us someday!" We thought they were such losers then! and they were...

and I have worked in BOTH gated communities, and you got it right on the houses there, both the Highlands AND Broadmoor...if you want to get a close up look, you can make an appt to see the Elisabeth Miller Garden...she pissed all her neighbours off by making her Highlands yard 'public'

[flamingyouth]

21. That's great

BTW, I went to Ballard! :hi: So, believe me, I know all too well about the Lakeside thing.

I actually took and passed their entrance exam because my mom wanted me to go to a "good" school. My dad refused to let me go there because he (in his words) didn't want me to be an asshole. :D

So, I went to the very academically challenged (at the time) Ballard, but, you know, it was actually a good experience.

(Hooray for North Seattle! :D)

[mitchtv]

3. dupe

self delete

[Coventina]

5. Yep, let them keep their money.

What is the purpose of a gated community? Except to exclude?
And don't tell me criminals, because any criminal can get in there with a minimum of effort.

[SotarrTheWizard]

9. . . .do you live in an area with gangs ?

I do. And worse still, I live in a development that's neutral territory between three gang turfs.

And the cops are never there in a timely fashion when you call.

I can see the appeal. . .sadly. .

[Coventina]

12. Yes, I grew up around gangs, in the inner city

I don't think the answer to gang violence is walled enclaves of those privileged enough to afford it.

[SotarrTheWizard]

28. Wakeup call. . .

. . . the gangs are in the suburbs now. We had a drive-by in my neighborhood, 3 years ago, that wounded a 8-year-old kid (the idjit gang-bangers missed their target, who ran into our development, as the cops told us, to get a shortcut to "safe" territory..)

I'm tired of gangbangers that who don't even live here using my development for rumbles (or whatever they call them these days. . )

And don't hit me on the "economic justice" bit: you need justice in place before you can get economic justice, and I'll be damned if I have to watch another 8-year-old take a bullet in the arm just to be open and accepting. . .

[Coventina]

30. So a gated community is your "solution"?

Does that keep another 8 year old from being shot?

Or does that just keep it from ruining your day because it didn't happen in your exclusive community?

[SotarrTheWizard]

37. No, it's not MY solution. . .

. . .but generally, I allow other people to choose how to run their lives. If I was into social control. . .I'd be a Repug and on FreeRepublic, not a liberal and here. . .

[Coventina]

41. All I said is that if they want to do keep us out

then WE shouldn't have to pay for their services.

They should be on their own.

Also, FYI, it's against the board rules to accuse someone of being a disruptor. If you think I'm a closet FReeper then by all means, hit the alert button!

[Zorro]

45. Uhhhh...they pay for those services, too

People living in gated communities pay local property taxes to fund community services, and are therefore entitled to share in those services. Do you disagree?

Gated communities typically own the streets in their communities (having paid for them to be built and maintained), and thus should have some say-so on access. Do you disagree?

So they may also pay monthly association fees to enforce CC&Rs to maintain property values. I personally don't want my neighbors to be raising chickens or rebuilding cars in their driveways -- is there a problem with people holding the same attitude from freely associating to restrict those kinds of activities?

[miss_kitty]

19. yeah broadmoor, the community flamingyouth mentioned

is smack-dab next to the 'bad' area of town...nothing like smashing the 'have-nots' in the face with a bunch of 'have-got' including a 24 hour guard to keep your poverty-stricken ass out.

[bo44]

26. So instead of helping to undo the socio/economic/politico environment

retreat from your community and hide behind your gates. My bet is that any community with a heavy gang problem that will not go away has a history of exploiting cheap labor, abuse of people of color, and an old boy system of job patronage in government and business. The BFEE provides the perfect cover for any yahoo willing to move behind the gate and not do something to strengthen their native communities.

[mitchtv]

14. exclude who?

the poor? that is a question of can you afford to live in this neighborhood? Well, that is true of all "better" neighborhoods, the gates are just another level of expense. As for Crime being the reason, I'd say it was the largest reason. After all, You must sell to whoever can afford to buy, unless you mean another type of community, private club of which there aren't many of that around here. As for keeping their own money and seceding, I doubt if the city fathers would agree.

[Coventina]

18. so, if they want to be a part of the community, they should

open their streets to the rest of us.

What's so hard about that?

[miss_kitty]

22. well, at least one of the two gated communities i have mentioned

exclude based on race. So Lenny Wilkins, Bill Russell and Sir-Mix-Alot would not be voted in. Nor would, Norm Rice, our former mayor, nor former Fire Chief Claude Harris, or our current gov, Gary Locke, who is Asian American.

Kenny G (who I would vote against for hair and 'music' only) would not be allowed, based on his last name, Gorelick, and the heritage (Jewish) that backs it up...

While poor may have 99.999% to do with it, it is not a sole excluding factor, in the case i mention.

[mitchtv]

4. Maybe they shouldn't pay the same taxes , and secede from said city

A lot of the communities near me are gated, and not all that rich. Many are snowbirds who want their homes/trailers to still be here next year,and many are seniors who are not being defended by the police. Mostly they do have their own security. They are not all that exclusive, at least here.Home invasions are also Anti American.

[Coventina]

6. Are gated communities a reaction to home invasions?

I'm not buying that!

[mitchtv]

16. plenty of that kind of shit going on

around here. If i had money to burn I would love to buy extra security.I am getting older and could not physically tolerate much physical abuse.And since No one likes to pay taxes, police are few and far between. Cities like Rancho Mirage have 80% behind gates, and their tax base is so much higher than the neighbors.They can afford police.tHE EXCLUSIVITY IS NOT FROM THE GATES, BUT THE PRICE OF A HOME.

[Coventina]

20. So, take the gates down then!

:shrug:

[miss_kitty]

23. No. William Boeing started the Highlands around 1916

i really don't think Home Invasion robberies and carjackings and muggings were a deciding factor.

[SotarrTheWizard]

8. not sure where you live. . .

. . . But it's been my experience that most people's communities have very little to do with where they live anymore, and much more with what they do in their spare time: thank and/or blame the Net for that. . .

Heck, here in the DC 'burbs, my "community" is spread over 2 states and the District of Columbia. Yet I've lived in the same neighborhood for 6+ years. . and know **TWO** of the neighbors. . .

It's just the way society has evolved. . .

[Coventina]

10. What requires GATED communities?

Why do some neighborhoods get to decide that the rest of us don't deserve to be able to drive down their streets?

[SotarrTheWizard]

27. Let's see. . .

. . .they paid for those private streets ???

Streets on my development are private as well. . . and although we're not gated, it's all private property and access by the owners, their families, and invited guests only.

It's actually fairly useful for getting rid of things like vacuum cleaner or home security system salesmen. . .and keeps missionaries of all flavors out as well. . .

[Coventina]

32. A "no soliciting" sign on your own lawn does the same thing

I see no reason to block off streets.

[SotarrTheWizard]

52. I have a "no-soliciting" sign . . .

. . .it's at the entrance to my development, and at every major street intersection in the development.

And still, 2-3 time a year, we get solicitors.

Who are usually arrested by the cops within an hour: my homeowner's association always presses charges on criminal trespass.

Now, as for your seeing "no reason to block off streets", if public tax dollars haven't paid for those streets, how do you justify opening them to public traffic ?? Just Curious. . .

[ret5hd]

11. someday, if we are lucky...

those gates will lock from the outside.

[Coventina]

13. My sentiments EXACTLY!

:thumbsup:

[Nikia]

17. My husband's uncle pays $70,000 per year to live in one

They have fully armed security guards but for that, they should be able to have their own fire department too. Even if I were that rich, I wouldn't live in a gated community. Subdivisions are bad enough.

[bo44]

24. My cousin's freeper blonde wifey wanted to live in one so bad they moved

to West Palm Beach because they could not afford to live in the gated communities in Stockton, Califas. I hope she's happy as my cousin and their children now flee Biloxi out of the path of Hurricane Frances and head to Atlanta not knowing if they will make it back anytime soon with Hurricane Ivan bearing down on Florida.

[Zorro]

25. I live in a gated community

and I like it. I think they actually foster a sense of community.

The streets are private, and are maintained by the local homeowners' association to which we all pay a monthly fee -- no government largess there. We've got our own lift and pumping stations, and a gas distribution system that were all paid for through infrastructure fees, so we aren't tapping into local budgets there, either. We also pay plenty in property taxes to support local police, firemen, and education, so we've got the right to those services, just like everyone else.

I like having some minimal control over who has access to the neighborhood -- I prefer not having to worry about strangers speeding through the neighborhood or parking at the curb casing homes to break in.

Sorry if you have a different opinion, but frankly I find nothing wrong with gated communities.

[SotarrTheWizard]

29. . . Exactly.

. . .Free Association is still the law of the land. .

. . . unless Ashcroft changed it last night }(

[Coventina]

31. How is it free association if you are hiding behind walls & gates?

Obviously you think you are too good to associate with most of us.

[SotarrTheWizard]

38. I'm not. . .

. . . but I recognize the rights of others to make other choices.

And so what if they have gated communities ? That means the local government gets more taxes, as even the roads are private property, and thus, taxable infrastructure.

They get what they want, the local government gets more revenue, and has less maintenance to do, and thus improves services to its' citizens.

I'm an engineer: sounds like a win-win to me, , ,

[uncle ray]

55. good theory but it doesn't work that way.

where i live there are dozens and dozens of gated communities. me, i live in a modest older part of town, where the utilities are ancient, the streets rough and needing paving, etc. on my lunch break at work, i generally drive the roads that go to many gated communities, the nice frehsly paved roads, with sod and flowers planted in the boulevards, all maintained by the city, nobody cuts my grass near the street for me! this same city had to solicit donations to maintain the "other" flowerbeds in the old parts of town.

the exisiting homes never benefit, it's "too much work" or too intrusive to update the sewers, streets etc. in the old parts of town.

the real kicker to the situation, is many times, in this area at least, the occupants of the gated communities are fundies who have no problem forcing their views on the rest of us, and have much more infleuence to do so, through the good ol boy network etc, then lock themselves away from contact with us, yet they feel the need to dictate how the rest of us live. it comes down to being either one of "us" or "them". they drew the lines and put up fences, now if we could just keep them in those fences!

[Susang]

56. Of course you don't,

You can afford to be on the inside. That sense of "community" you've fostered, is basically one of exclusion. Think about it - exactly who are these "strangers" that your "community" is keeping out? Who exactly is welcome to enter your gated community?

[NashVegas]

33. Gated Communities Are Nothing New

Call it post-modern feudalism if you wish.

[Swamp Rat]

44. Post-modern feudal enclaves

When I lived in Brazil last year, I saw more gated communities than anywhere else in this world. This has not stopped crime one bit nor has it helped their society in general. What it does do is give a false sense of security while the horde is kept temporarily at bay.

[mitchum]

34. I'm waiting for the day when they start erecting domes over those places

[Lydia Leftcoast]

35. Yes, and if you're raised in a gated community,

you're being told implicitly (ior maybe explicitly) that people who are different from you are scary.

[SOteric]

36. I have to disagree about the services and infrastructure

of community. We really can't have it both ways, - we can't ask the wealthier members of the community to bear the brunt of taxes and refuse them benefit of taxpayer supported services like water, sewer, police, the courts and firefighters.

So, while I agree with much of what you've said, I'm personally in favour of apportioning more tax burden to the wealthiest segment of the population than the unfairly miniscule amount they are currently shouldering. And much like the dues to a club, you can't really expect them to pay for membership and services (in a society) from which they cannot benefit.

[notadmblnd]

39. Idiots... they think their gated communities

are going to keep them safe when enough people become desperate enough and take to the streets.

[Zorro]

43. Plan on storming the Bastille, are we?

When people become desperate enough, they're going to take to their neighborhood streets -- I highly doubt they'll be swarming to gated communities to start a commotion.

Sheesh, the stereotyping and the pejorative remarks in this thread mirrors the insults I hear from typical Republicans about Democrats. Manufacturing some class-warfare scenario based on what neighborhoods people choose to live in seems to be a rather immature position to take.

[Coventina]

46. Gated communities are antithetical to American values

How do gated communities foster our goals of a free and open society?

Gates say, "You aren't good enough to associate with us."

That, to me, seems a rather immature and unloving position to take.

[Susang]

58. They are putting up gated communities

Right across the street from the projects in Chicago. They're tearing down Cabrini Green to make private gated condominium communities for the very wealthy. Its one of the most horrific things I've ever seen done to the impoverished. Its like they're being taunted.

[Chovexani]

40. I'm fine with gated communities

Keeps the riff-raff out of the general population. :evilgrin:

[Swamp Rat]

42. The alien lizards too

[Wcross]

47. I live behind gates.

I have a farm gate at the road and I keep it locked at all times. Is that rude? If I am expecting people I open it but otherwise I do not want strangers on my property. You would be suprised at how many people would drive up to my house because "they didn't know anyone lived back here". I suspect some of them really ment " I didn't know you were home".

[Coventina]

48. No, I'm not talking about one person's property.

I'm talking about gated communities (more than one property), where all the roads are fenced off and not accessed by anyone but "the desirables".

And anyone who says the roads in these places are "privately owned" I say that argument doesn't wash with me. If there are roads, they should be open to the public. Anything else is blatent anti-American classism.

[Wcross]

49. If government money is used to maintain......

the infrastructure then I agree 100%.

[LWolf]

50. I've only been to one gated community.

I've never lived in one. I do feel the need to lock the world out; I like my front gate. I like the fact that you don't get to walk into my yard and up to my door. I'm a fiend for privacy. If I could live anywhere, it would be in the center of a fenced square mile where I didn't have to hear anyone else's traffic, music, fights, parties, etc., or have their street lights and security lights dimming the stars. Or their cars speeding up and down in front of my house at all hours.

I'm ambivalent about the idea of gated communities. I don't support excluding people from a community. I do support decreasing noise, traffic, and security concerns.

Here's an idea: :think:

If we address the real issues of population growth, housing, safety, and pollution everywhere in our nation, we've removed the areas of concern, and then the only reason for a gated community would be to maintain class or cultural bigotry.

My personal peeve is CC&Rs. I don't feel the need for my neighbors or their association to regulate things like what color I paint my house, whether or not I can have a fence, or what sort of fence, what I plant in my yard, where I park, etc., and I sure as hell don't feel the need to ask their permission. I think CC&Rs are more prevalent than gated communities.

[Mr.Green93]

51. tear down those walls

[tedoll78]

53. Whenever I hear the phrase "master-planned"

I think, "master race".. priced just high enough to keep "the undesireables" out.

[Khephra]

54. If you didn't know it, George Romero's fourth zombie film

is going to satirize gated communities like he did comsumer culture in Dawn of the Dead.

:evilgrin:

[eyesroll]

57. So, have you ever lived in an appartment building with a buzzer?

Doesn't that have the same net effect -- letting only the residents and their invited guests in? But most people, given the choice, prefer an apartment building with a buzzer (and, in many neighborhoods, a doorman) to one without.

If the streets are private, paid for by the residents, then you really have no right to drive down their street. If they pay water and sewer, then they're entitled to water and sewer. If they pay taxes, they're entitled to the use of public streets and services. They're not entitled to park in your driveway or use the private security guard you hired for your business.

That said, I'm not a fan of homeowner's associations, CC&Rs, or having to show ID every time I go home if there's a new guy at the gate, so I don't live in a gated community./

[Pithlet]

61. I think apartments are different.

It's a lot of people in a small area, and your front door has no front porch or yard. It opens right onto the hallway. I can see limiting the people that can go inside of a building. I think that is different than gating off a huge area including streets, particularly if they are built or maintained by the public.

[Zorro]

63. Private roads built and maintained by gated communities = private property

Don't you think the property owners should be allowed to have some control over their communally owned and maintained property?

I also have a residence in a non-gated community. There seems to be a rash of drive-by thefts by criminals cruising the neighborhood looking for open garage doors. Is that a better neighborhood to live in because of its unrestricted access?

Nope, not for me.

Living in a gated community is not a case of practicing some snobbish, elitist discrimination as it seems a few think it is...restricting neighborhood access is a reasonable way to help maintain a quality of life I prefer.

[Misunderestimator]

59. So is this where I am supposed to apologize for living in one?

There are some areas where there are not many options other than to live in a gated community. And not all gated communities are as exclusive as you describe. In mine, for example, the roads through it are public, but between the hours of 11pm and 5am there is a security guard who takes down license plates of people entering the community. Other than that, it's no different than any other community, and no different surely than any community with a neighborhood watch.

As for not deserving any of the services that I already pay for with my tax dollars... Why? For the additional security of living where I live I am already paying an additional fee, and there is no additional burden to the regular tax-payer, and I am not receiving ANY special services that anyone else doesn't receive.

[Ilsa]

60. I don't mind if they pay a TON more in property taxes.

I realize this will vary from state to state, but if they are paying many times as much in property taxes, then I think they are paying for the services. I think they should have a homeowners association to pay for their own security.

Of course, I completely agree with you on your other points of being anti-community, anti-neighborly, etc. And I think they bought into the fear propaganda.

[AlFrankenFan]

62. Thanks for calling me un-American

They aren't just for the rich. And we ain't rich.

Edit:

I currently live in Orange County. Yeah, it's a rich place. We aren't exactly rich. And by we, I mean by step-dad, an entrepenuer, my mom, and my two siblings. There are lots of gated communities here. Our apartment we used to live in until we could an afford a house in this community was gated. This community is gated. Just because you live in a gated community doesn't mean you're evil, or Republican, or un-American.

Why my parents chose to live here was because of safety. Personally, I would never chose to live here, so I guess I'm more defending my parents. They, nor I, feel superior to anyone in our town. The neighborhood next to us does that job well enough.

Generalization is the first step towards bigotry. And I thought people here were understanding.

[Susang]

64. Read this thesis on gated communities in Southern CA

Written by a Fulbright Scholar from the Sorbonne . It examines many of the topics that have been touched upon here, and some that haven't, such as the fact that many gated communities are incorporating as they get older to transfer the costs of maintainence back to the tax payers.

snip:
In the elderly gated community of Leisure World/Laguna Woods for example, the incorporation was planned in order to transfer some responsibilities from the association to the city, as far it is possible to organize such a transfer without having to turn down the walls, such as sewers, trash collection and public transportations. This case is not isolated: the City of Calabasas refinanced in 2001 a $30 millions bond designed to improve and landscape the areas where Calabasas Park gated communities were built; the California Highway Patrol has been checking speed on the private streets of Coto de Caza since 2001 (Kirwan, 2001); and the City of Newport Beach offered a $18 millions improvement to the Pelican Hills/Newport Coast gated communities area in order to favor their annexation (Willon, 2001).

Much more information can be found at this link:
http://www.international.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=4664

[AlFrankenFan]

65. Doesn't surprise me n/t

[Susang]

66. I almost wish I hadn't gotten interested in this topic

As I've been researching it for the past hour or so. :-)

There's a whole group of researchers working on this very topic. They have quite a lot of interesting things to say about it, some of which I hadn't even thought about. I think I have to stop now.


Here's the link I found for the Research Network:Private Urban Governance and Gated Communities, in case anybody else was interested:
http://www.gated-communities.de/

[alarimer]

67. My apartment has a gate

But I doubt it keeps the riffraff out- maybe it is there to keep the riffraff IN. Anyone can get past the electric gate if they just wait for someone to come out. I think it provides the illusion of security more that anything else. I disagree with the idea of gated communities. I hate the idea. It just seems totally against everything this country is supposed to stand for. But we are heading in the direction where there is such a gap between the haves and havenots that maybe gates will only make those communities a bigger target.