DU Teachers - I have a question

[redqueen]

My daughter, in the first grade, got in trouble for enthusiastically raising her hand (shaking it, and saying 'ooh oooh').

While I know this is probably distracting and teachers wouldn't want to encourage it... is it something you'd punish a 6 year old student for?

[SOteric]

1. My students

tend to be 19 and 20 rather than 6, but enthusiasm is still not something for which I would ever punish a student.

Are you certain there wasn't some additional dynamic to consider?

[redqueen]

3. Fairly certain

My kids get compliments at restaurants for their good behavior. Her kindergarten teacher never had a single complaint and praised her constantly. The only complaint she ever had was she would sometimes talk in class... which is understandably something she should be chastised for and possibly punished.

I'm kinda peeved. This teacher called that 'noisy hands', and put her in the corner for it.

[mark414]

2. off topic

well, i'm not a teacher, but no, she shouldn't have been punished, just a simple "settle down" or "please raise your hand quietly"

but

i saw your dallas avatar...what do you think of tony romo?

i ask because i grew up with him and he's still good friends with my older brother. i know he did real well last week. what do you down there think of him?

[redqueen]

4. I think he's great

And so do most of the people I've talked to about him. His calling a different play earned him a lot of respect from the fans, I think... but not so much from the coach.

[northstar]

5. When you say the teacher 'punished' her....

What did the teacher do/say exactly?

[redqueen]

8. Put her in the corner

And gave her a frown for today. That's significant to my daughter, since like me she's a perfectionist. If you go a whole month without a frown (they give either a smiley face or a frown face every day), then they allow some special treat or privilege.

What really burns me up is that she's not a fast runner, so in gym she comes in last during running laps, and the guys that finish first all mock the ones that come in later. I wonder if they get punished for that. Something tells me the coach probably doesn't care.

:grr:

[northstar]

17. Wow - that's really a shame that the teacher did that to your daughter

especially with it being the beginning of 1st grade. Doesn't really get 'real school' off on a positive note for her (and I feel very sorry for that).

I'm glad to hear that you're going to talk w/the teacher. Discipline (teaching someone orderly/acceptable conduct)is not accomplished by using 'punishment techniques' like this teacher did.

I was just thinking that, perhaps with some diplomacy on your part, you can subtlely "teach the teacher" about 'teaching in a way that will always make the students remember her for being a great teacher and how much they learned, and how she helped them learn to love school, setting them on the right track for life-long learning, etc. I'll bet this teacher can even remember a teacher SHE HAD once that did this for her.

Good luck with it all and I truly hope that your daughter will have a great year in 1st grade!

[AutumnMist]

6. I Loved To Raise My Hand

When I was a child I was fueled by the enthusiasm of learning. At times it was silenced by some teachers and it was encouraged by others. Overall, I just loved to speak my mind and learn from my peers. My parents did not encourage me to speak out. In fact, it was looked down upon. It lead to many insecure moments in my life. Encourage your daughter to speak her mind. Encourage her to research what she is speaking about. It will lead to many great things! :)

[redqueen]

9. I've already told her that rule is silly

and that I've never heard of being punished for it. She was pretty upset.

I told her that while we all have to follow certain rules, we don't necessarily have to agree with them. :)

[tigereye]

22. that sounds excessive

and negative. Enthusiasm should be rewarded. Cripe, even in Catholic school they didn't do that when I was that age.

[plcdude]

7. absolutely not

we should be encouraging enthusiasm at all levels. I would talk to the teacher and if necessary talk to the principal to see just why this was a problem. Although I teach at the college level I do have a BA and MA in Education as well as four children who have gone through elementary school and I find this perplexing and inconsistent with learning theories that encourage enthusiasm for learning. I think I would follow up on this before it goes further. Was just in Dallas last weekend for our anniversary stayed at the Crescent Court (very nice) and had a wonderful time.

[redqueen]

10. Oh I'm definitely going to have a talk with this teacher

I can understand her wanting a quiet response, but a punishment for 'ooh ooh'?

[texas_teacher]

11. I've got older ones

7th graders to be exact.

If I have a chronic "ooooo ooooer". I'll do the following:

First, I'll say, "Okay, I see that Fred knows. Let's see if anyone else knows as well."

If the oooo oooing is really bad, I'll say that I'm only calling on people who are quiet. One kid can't suck up all of the attention and answer all of the questions.

But....to punish someone for doing that....that's just messed up.

If anything, a private chat where you make the kid feel special would be in order.

"Frieda...boy, I can tell that you were really excited about learning in class today. Not all kids can think as fast as you can. Can you understand that when I don't call on you right away, I'm giving the kids who need more time a chance to get excited as well?" and then praise her some more.

Again....punishing = bad.

MP

[redqueen]

12. Thanks for the feedback

Just wanted to make sure I wasn't completely out of line before I talk to her.

And we're talking about a 6 year old... kripes...

[AmandaRuth]

13. i don't know how to answer your question but to tell

you to talk to the teacher.

I had quite a few conversations with my daughters (miniluvamerica, who sometimes posts here) teachers in her younger years about "controlling her natural exuberance", as they put it. I think her teachers really loved her, it was felt that she needed to learn a little self control. Talk to her teacher. It sounds like you have a keeper there, enthusiastic and exuberant. Good going, mom!

[Carson]

14. I think it depends upon

whether your daughter had been warned in the past about that particular behavior, or if the class as a whole had been warned.

But punished on a first offense? No way.

[49jim]

15. As an educator for 31 years...

an elementary principal for 22 years and an elementary teacher for 9 years(2 as a first grade teacher), I can tell you that the teachers punishment is out of line with the infraction. Be sure to meet with the teacher and get the details of the incident. Singling a child out for raising their hand and putting them in the corner is not the way to handle this. There are far better ways to do this. good Luck.

[eyesroll]

16. I'm an ex-teacher (high school, but I did plenty of student teaching with

the young ones).

"Oooh ooh ooh" would get a "Redprincess, please raise your hand quietly if you know the answer" (although probably not as prissy as that -- I'm out of practice). If it became chronic, I might pull her aside and let her know that I appreciate her enthusiasm but it's distracting to the other kids. After that, maybe a cheery, polite, non-pissy call home, but not a "go sit in the corner" and a frown, especially when she's 6.

Geez, and they wonder why kids start to hate school...I hated that freaking frown! I got one on an art project once, because I gave the paper cutout cat three tails and two heads. I wasn't following directions (it's not like I didn't know what a cat look like...).

[comradebillyboy]

18. if we are not there to answer questions

what good are we?

i want my students asking

[roguevalley]

19. no. I taught first grade 11 of my years and learned to treat that with

humor the first few times, smiling and saying wow and then let them sit a while. She should talk to her on the side. Punishment? Nope.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

20. Sounds over the top to me...

No, I'm not a classroom teacher; but I can remember teachers who said things like, "I won't choose anyone who is being impolite...Let's see who's raising their hand quietly."

It won't take long for them to settle down when they know what their teacher expects, and if she lets them know in a pleasant way, they'll have fond memories of school.

I'd suggest you talk with the teacher...and the principal, if that proves unfruitful.

[MissMarple]

21. That's totally inappropriate.

It's one way to make a child dislike school and turn her away from the enthusiasm of learning. I sounds like the teacher has no classroom management skills except for bullying.

[LWolf]

23. No.

I probably wouldn't have called on her at that point, but she wouldn't have been "in trouble." I'd be having regular conversations with the class about group norms; taking turns, giving everybody a chance, etc.. I'd also be reminding them what to do if they wanted to be called on. In your daughter's case, I would have made eye contact, raised my eyebrows, and called on someone else. Then I would have looked back at her, and if she was enthusiastically raising her hand without the "ooh--ooh--" I'd have called on her, and said something like, "I see you've got something important to say!"

No punishing enthusiasm; a little guiding in how to express it in a group discussion!

[MissMarple]

26. Exactly! You have just described the role of an educator .

Thank you. Now why do you think we are saddled with these incompetent people in our classrooms? I think we luck out with the folks who have posted here as you have, but there are too many in our classrooms who are unprepared or are not able to do the job. I think it has to do with salary and training. Yesterday's teachers are today's attorneys, bankers, accountants, and businesswomen. We don't pay for the best and the brightest. And teacher training is way behind the realities of the classroom.

[LWolf]

27. That's a good question, MissMarple.

In all of my years in public ed, as a student and a teacher, the vast majority of teachers I've known have been caring people. Most are competent. The exceptions can be frustrating for colleagues as well as parents and students to deal with.

Here is something to think about that may be related. It's 4:33 am as I type, and I don't have the statistics at hand to quote. But I remember this about them: the vast majority of people who enter the teaching profession (K-12) do so because they were successful and comfortable in the system. The public ed system has been notorious for generations for rigid, linear, one-size-fits-all structures. Incoming teachers were those that were comfortable with that structure, so they perpetuate it. Those that come in wanting to do things differently don't last long; about 5 years. I've outlasted the norm. They leave in frustration, because they don't like the system demands any better as teachers than they did as students. We had a while in which the system was challenged to change, and incoming teachers were taught many different ways to instruct, etc.. NCLB etc. is the backlash; the re-taking. The reforms are just that; a demand that we go back to the punish/reward model.

The whole philosophy currently in control is one of rigid control, bribes, and threats. "zero tolerance," "getting tough," etc.. rules the day.

That's just one reason. And then there's this:

There are many people who just aren't comfortable with students. It's not about how "highly qualified" they are in mastery of subject matter. It's about their social skills and their ability to interact with a roomful of students in a constructive, nurturing way while still retaining authority. People who lack confidence or esteem, who are afraid of students, who don't really like the students they work with are less competent no matter how many degrees they have. Teacher ed programs don't spend much time on building an environment of trust, cooperation, and respect in the classroom. You do it naturally, and you learn it from peers...or you don't.

[knitter4democracy]

29. That is one of the best essays on education I've ever read

You are so right. I was one of those who didn't last. I just couldn't take the crap anymore. Let's get all anal about the rules we've made up only to let really big stuff slide because we don't want to deal with it. Let's ask teachers for their honest opinions and then make their lives a living hell because they had the audacity to disagree with the principal.

BTW, that teacher must have been having a seriously bad day. To punish a student twice for something that silly makes me think your daughter simply caught all of the teacher's anger at that moment. It's unfair, but it does happen, as teachers are human.

I taught high school, and I had students who did the "ooh, ooh, Teacher, Teacher" thing. I usually would wait until I'd called on a couple of others and just ignore them. After class, I would explain not to use that body language in class and tell them (again) what my name was (long story, but they were the ones left behind). I never punished them for it: why would I punish enthusiasm? That's just crazy.

I would talk to the teacher over the phone, in all honesty. Face to face just ramps it up and gets her on her guard. On the phone, she might be more likely to admit it was a mistake. If the phone conversation doesn't go well, that's when you make an appointment to go it, and make sure the principal is there and knows what has happened.

[rumguy]

24. I think it would be something to encourage

Enthusiasm is a good thing, right?

[miss_kitty]

25. have you thought of having a chat with the teacher

and possibly your daughter about this issue? i remember having the life and enthusiasm crushed outta me by stupid ass teachers. then my mom and dad were kinda "oh well"...
i mean, come on, being enthusiastic about knowing an answer=humiliation?

i think the teacher, your daughter, you and the teacher's future students might be helped with a little communication on this thing.

ps not a teacher, not a parent. just a person who remembers 40 year old classroom humiliations

[murielm99]

28. I once had a class of second graders who did that.

It was a very special class.

We weren't tracking second graders into gifted programs at that point. But I think nearly every one of them would have qualified as gifted in some manner. They all read above grade level. One girl was astonishingly artistic. I have never seen a second grader with the ability to draw and paint like that girl!

I had several who would wave their hands back and forth, waggle their fingers, and say, "Ooh, ooh! I know! I know!"

I gave a couple of warnings to the entire class about using good manners and taking turns. Eventually, I just stood silently until every student was volunteering politely. They knew exactly why I was just standing there.

I did warn a couple of people, privately.

Talk to the teacher, and your child. Maybe there is more to it than you realize. If not, then talk to the principal, with the teacher present.

Good luck.