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Dukkha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 05:49 PM
Original message
Lucas Butchers Return of the Jedi yet again


this is a screen shot from the upcoming DVD release where Hayden Christiansen is now digitally inserted into the finale as the Spirit of Anakin Skywalker.

So are we expected to believe that Vader suddenly becomes 40 years younger when he dies?

Fucking douche bag! I'm a huge SW fan and will probably buy it anyway, but He has no respect for his own legacy!

At least I got laserdic transfers of the REAL Original Trilogy from the 70's on DVD
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kixot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. Why the hell would he keep Alec Guiness and not replace him with Ewan?
Inconsistancy pisses me off.
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kixot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. And another thing, I'd like to digitally insert my foot in Lucas' ...
oh, never mind.
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. 2 quickie answers
One, Alec Guinness is a LEGEND, and not even Lucas is fucked up enough to mess with that.

Two, Obi-Wan died as an old man, as played by Guinness, and was never turned over to the Dark Side. The twisted logic Lucas is using to insert Christensen is that Anakin "died" as a young man, crossed over into the Dark Side, and maybe some kind of Force Statute of Limitations was in play. Although since Luke restored Anakin... :crazy:

Aw fuck it, I like the first reason better. Sir Alec cannot be fucked with!

Lucas really fucked this up. Maybe he should just replace every head in the movie with Jar-Jar's.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. I think the original will be widely bootlegged
I'm not going to buy that shit.
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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. You need to change your license plate to read...
"Lucas Sucks"
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. With all due respect, I believe *'s suckiness is more important (nt)
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wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. Is this for real?
If so I will not be purchasing the original trilogy dvd set.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. Supposedly, the souls retain their image at time of death... And
Edited on Thu Sep-09-04 05:59 PM by HypnoToad
Yoda and Obi-Wan are geezers here.

The twerp who couldn't act his way out of a mime's booth makes more sense than the guy who played Anakin in Return of the Jedi.

And this is for real.

And, yes, they kept the Jabba scene in Episode 4. (which wasn't called Episode 4 until Lucas saw that lots of people saw the film. Now add in all of the other changes (including on in Empire Strikes Back where Vader talks with the Emperor about Luke being his son and how that scene is far changed from the original, not to forget blowing the cool cliffhanger at the end) and it's obvious Lucas never wrote all of these stories at once.)
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No2W2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. yeah, this is supposed to tie-in to episode 3....
(dog, I'm SUCH a geek sometimes)....rumor is that Anakin actually does die and the emporoer uses the dark side to bring him back as Vader. So, in ROtJ, when Luke gets Vader to turn, he in effect "kills" Vader and frees Anakin. That's (supposedly) why they use Hayden.

The other thing, I've read they just replaced the guy with the frog mask and changed the dialog a bit, but they don't reveal anything about Skywalker's son.
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Dukkha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. It is for real
I wish it were a fan hoax but this came from a reviewer who has copies. USA Today also confirmed it.

He ALSO changed ESB by inserting Ian Mcdiarmid as Emepror Palpatine

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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. All on the new DVD release!
From an e-mail:

So... anyone up for a little MORE George Lucas on DVD today? Yeah?

Okay then... after 8 long years of waiting, here's my in-depth review of
20th Century Fox and Lucasfilm's 4-disc Star Wars Trilogy DVD box set. Was
it worth the wait? Do the films look and sound awesome? Has Lucas really
made more changes to them? Just read the review, folks. It's all in there.
On that last question however, I think this will finally convince you that
we weren't lying all those many months ago when we first said there would be
more surprises in store for these films. Don't say we didn't warn you. ;-)

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/reviews3/starwarstrilogy.html
and yes - they keep screwing with the films.

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/reviews3/starwarschanges.html
god forbid you get one consistant ver, or be able to get the old original
ver without cgi up your a** that you saw when you were a kid.

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/reviews3/starwarschanges02.html
check out the ghosts at the bottom - hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Part One - The Films & Changes


"A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away..."

It's very strange to finally be writing a review of these films on DVD. I
don't think a single day has gone by in the eight years we've been running
The Digital Bits that we weren't asked: "When is Star Wars coming out on
DVD?" We've struggled to answer that question as best we could of course,
constantly checking with both 20th Century Fox and Lucasfilm. We've
repeatedly tried to convince George Lucas himself to release these films on
DVD, eventually succeeding in getting at least the prequel films on disc
(after a LONG campaign with other websites in which we jointly collected
over 30,000 signatures and took out a full page ad in Daily Variety). But as
to the ultimate question of when Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back and
Return of the Jedi would be released on our favorite format, Lucasfilm's
answer was always "eventually". Well... eventually has finally arrived, hard
though it is to believe.

The Star Wars Trilogy arrives on DVD in the form of a new 4-disc box set,
containing not only the much-loved movies, but also a separate disc of
all-new bonus material. So let's take a closer look, shall we? We'll start
with the films themselves.

As most of you know, Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope tells the story of
Luke Skywalker, a young farmboy living on a backwater planet with dreams
escaping his humdrum plight for a life of heroism in outer space. It seems
that the galaxy is embroiled in a massive civil war between the evil
Galactic Empire and the freedom-loving Rebel Alliance. Luke longs to fight
for what he believes in, but the conflict is raging a long way from his
far-flung world... at least until a pair of bumbling droids suddenly arrives
on his uncle's farm. Luke discovers that the droids are carrying a secret
message from a Rebel princess, intended for a wizened Jedi Knight named
Obi-Wan Kenobi, who happens to live nearby. The droids are also carrying the
stolen plans for the Empire's ultimate weapon, the Death Star, a massive
space station with enough firepower to destroy an entire planet. Unless
these plans can be safely delivered to the Rebel forces, their struggle for
freedom and justice will be crushed once and for all. So with the help of
Kenobi and a wise-cracking pirate named Han Solo, Luke suddenly finds
himself whisked away into deep space on the adventure of his life, pursued
all the while by the Empire's most sinister agent of evil... Darth Vader.

It's really unnecessary to say much more about this film, as you're all no
doubt intimately familiar with it by now. Released as a lark in 1977 by 20th
Century Fox, George Lucas' original Star Wars became a hugely successful
blockbuster almost overnight and it quickly changed the landscape of
Hollywood filmmaking, not only reviving a long-lost cinematic genre but also
pioneering the field of movie visual effects. The film had an incalculable
impact on my then ten-year-old life, opening my eyes to the possibilities of
the film medium and firing my imagination like nothing before it. I'm
certain that, like me, most of you have a very special place for the film in
your hearts. But Star Wars today is somewhat different than you might
remember it from 1977... or even the 1997 special edition re-release.

As you may have heard, a number of new digital changes have been made to the
Star Wars films for this DVD release. As with the 1997 special edition, A
New Hope has received the majority of the attention. Many shots have been
altered in very subtle ways, which only the most zealous fans will notice.
There are, however, a number of more major changes. In A New Hope, these
include a revised opening shot as Luke's landspeeder enters Mos Eisley
Spaceport (the speeder model is more detailed and moves more naturally), an
improved version of the Han/Greedo fight (Greedo still shoots first, but
only just - the blasts are much closer together and Han's movement is
smoother), a new CG model of Jabba the Hutt (it's a revised version of the
Episode I model of the character and is much improved) and re-rotoscoped
lightsaber blades throughout the film (blade color is more pronounced and
the animation is more like the prequel films). Personally, I quite like most
of these changes. The Han/Greedo fight is still less than perfect, but it
does look more natural. Han's head doesn't jerk like it did before - instead
his whole upper body shifts over slightly. And the blaster shots are VERY
close together now, so the encounter is not as implausible as it was in
1997. I still wish George would just let Han shoot first as he did
originally in 1977, but I can at least stomach watching this scene now.

George Lucas has made to the Star Wars Trilogy for the 2004 DVD release.]

Three years after the release of the original film, Episode V - The Empire
Strikes Back continued the epic adventure. After successfully destroying the
Death Star, Luke and his Rebel friends have been pursued across the galaxy
by Darth Vader and the Empire's mighty space fleet. While hiding out in a
new secret base on the frozen planet of Hoth, the Rebels are discovered by
Vader. After a massive snow battle, our heroes barely escape with their
lives and are scattered across space. Luke finds his way to the jungle
planet Dagobah, where he begins training to become a Jedi Knight. Meanwhile,
Han and the princess find refuge on the planet Bespin, unaware that they've
been followed by Vader's forces. Soon, Luke must abandon his training to
come to his friends' rescue, ultimately risking his fate in a reckless
confrontation with Vader himself.

Widely considered to be the best of the Star Wars series, The Empire Strikes
Back tells a much darker and more personal story than the original film,
despite the inclusion of several dramatic action sequences. In a risky move,
this unconventional sequel sees the good guys basically getting their asses
kicked from the start of the film until the very end. It's not a happy or
upbeat adventure by any means, and it ends with a stunning and unforeseen
twist that left theater audiences hanging on the edge of their seats for
more than three years after its original release in 1980. Despite the
cliff-hanger ending (or perhaps because of it) Empire ranks easily among the
best film sequels of all time. It holds up well to this day.

The digital changes to Empire for this DVD release are fewer than they are
in A New Hope. In fact, there are only three major changes. These include
the use of Temuera Morrison as the voice of Boba Fett (which I suppose makes
sense given that Boba is a clone of Jango from Episode II), the elimination
of Luke's scream when he jumps to escape Vader on Cloud City (which had been
a source of much debate among fans - why would he scream if he were jumping
willingly?), and the use of actor Ian McDiarmid as the Emperor (replacing
the old woman and voice actor Clive Revill who played the character
originally). I should note that the Emperor alteration also involves a
change in the scene's dialogue - one that is at first confusing. The Emperor
now tells Vader that he has no doubt "the young rebel who destroyed the
Death Star" is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker, to which Vader replies
"How is that possible?" That doesn't seem to make sense, because we know
that Vader is aware of who Luke is from dialogue earlier in the film
("That's it. The Rebels are there. And I'm sure Skywalker is with them."). I
suspect, however, that we'll find out in Episode III that Anakin DOES learn
of Luke's existence as an infant, and he hides this knowledge from the
Emperor. What that would mean is that Vader's been waiting all these years
to find Luke as an adult and turn him to the Dark Side so that they can
overthrow the Emperor together - a plot Vader ultimately confesses to Luke
at the end of Empire. We'll have to wait for Episode III to see how this new
bit of dialogue fits in.

Concluding the original trilogy in 1983, Episode VI - Return of the Jedi
opens as Luke, now a fully trained Jedi Knight, returns with his friends to
his home planet to rescue Han Solo from the vile crime lord Jabba the Hutt.
Luke then revisits Dagobah and learns that he must ultimately confront Darth
Vader if the galaxy is to have any hope of peace. Luke also learns a
surprising secret before rejoining the Rebels as they prepare for the final,
decisive battle in the conflict between Rebellion and Empire - an all-out
assault on the Emperor's second and even more powerful Death Star.

As the final chapter of the Star Wars saga, Return of the Jedi fails to be
either as fresh as the original film or as surprising as Empire. Too much is
predictable here (such as the appearance of a second Death Star) and too
many compromises were made for the younger audience members (the very
presence of the Ewoks, for example) which is especially noticeable after the
more adult themes of the previous installment. That said, Jedi does manage
to adequately complete the story arc of the original trilogy. There's nice
symmetry with the way the character storylines are wrapped up, and there's
enough action to keep the film interesting. I'll be curious to see how well
this conclusion works in the context of the overall 6-film saga once Episode
III arrives in theaters in May, 2005.

As with Empire, are three major digital changes to Jedi, all of which appear
at the end of the film. When Luke removes Vader's mask to reveal his
father's face, the eyebrows of actor Sebastian Shaw have been erased
(presumably because Anakin's face will be badly burned in Episode III).
Then, after the second Death Star is destroyed, when the film cuts to the
various celebrations around the galaxy, Naboo is now included among the
planets we see. Finally (and this is a big one), when the Force ghosts of
Ben, Yoda and Anakin appear to Luke at the very end of the film, actor
Sebastian Shaw has been replaced with Hayden Christensen (as he'll appear in
Episode III). That's going to piss off a lot of fans, but it makes sense. I
suspect the rational is that a Jedi's Force ghost is frozen in appearance at
the exact moment of his or her death. Since Anakin Skywalker basically
ceases to exist in Episode III (becoming Darth Vader), his ghost remained at
that age. Yeah, it's a stretch, but hey... within the logic of the universe,
it does make sense. Like it or not.

Ultimately, I've accepted that Lucas is entitled to change these films until
he's happy with them. The fact is, he's been changing them since 1977 (for
example, right after the first film was released and became a hit, Lucas
quickly went back in and added the Episode IV - A New Hope tag). These new
CG alterations are simply the logical continuation of his desire to overcome
the technical challenges he faced when he originally made the films. I have
to tell you, I'm as surprised as anyone to find myself actually appreciating
most of these changes. With the sole exception of the Han/Greedo scene
(which still bothers me, although less now than as it was in 1997), I think
all of the changes are either genuine improvements or simply make sense
given the ties to the prequel films. I still think Lucas has a
responsibility to save the original versions of these films out of respect
for the fans who have supported them all these years, the artists who
creatively invested themselves in the original work, and as a way to remind
us all just how far the films have come since they were first released. And
I still have hope that we'll see those original versions released on disc...
eventually... in a more elaborate box set of the entire saga. But more on
that later.
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. THAT change is actually okay
It always kind of bothered me that the Emperor holograph in ESB wasn't matched up in RotJ, but I will agree with everyone appalled by the last second revision with Hayden.
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Beware the Beast Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. At least that I can deal with.
That is something that at least adds a bit of continuity to the films. The Anakin thing is ridiculous, if it is indeed true.
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #6
22. you know I have always wondered if the Emperors were
the same guy... Who played the emperor in the early ones?... because the voices are very similar. Pardon my ignorance. :)
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Kid_A Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. The actor who plays Palpatine in the prequels also played the Emperor
in RETURN OF THE JEDI. He also plays Darth Sidious, the menacing phantom in Episodes I and II.
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. that's what I thought, AHA!
thanks.
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democracyindanger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
9. For the record
Edited on Thu Sep-09-04 06:19 PM by democracyindanger
The entire Star Wars pantheon jumped the shark when they started making the action figures with the blasters molded into the hands.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
10. Lucas is now a waste of a film maker
Get off this Star Wars kick and make something else or maybe he's just not capable of making something else.

The "new" Star wars flicks have been horrible.

You think with all this new computer technology, those films would be out of this world.

They sucked.
Except for Yoda (he's the bomb)
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #10
23. he was on Charlie Rose last night
Edited on Fri Sep-10-04 11:34 AM by tigereye
talking about films he will be able to make without interference in the future, due to his finally (?!?!) being financially independent. He talked about doing history films and his work with schools and technology. (oops, well I am seeing this post on Fri.)
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Meshuga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
11. That's a new action figure for him to sell.
Lucas is thinking about money (like he doesn't have enough). He turned the entire Starwars saga into a fiasco!
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Eternal_Vigilance Donating Member (51 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
14. MY CHILDHOOD HAS NOW OFFICIALLY BEEN RAPED AND PILLAGED BY LUCAS
*Sobs* My beloved galaxy far far away, what have they done to you??
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
15. OH SHIT - I THOUGHT THAT WAS JUST AN URBAN LEGEND!!!!!!!!
Let me at the bastard!!!!
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Dukkha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-09-04 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
18. He will be on Charlie Rose's show tonight
He's got some explaining to do
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
20. Oh for God's sake Lucas
just leave well enough alone already. Some of us who grew up with your creation actually like the original versions and don't like you messing with them. They may be your movies, but the public made them the classics that they are. You seem to forget that. Show some respect to the people that made you a billionaire.

Idiot.
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Kid_A Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
21. I'm a HUGE MASSIVE Star Wars dork, and that change doesn't bug me at all.
In the end, these are Lucas' movies for him to do with as he pleases. If he were to go back and say "I always intended for Boba Fett to be Jar Jar Binks" then that would be fine. It would piss me off to no end, and I would hunt him down and kill him, but it would be his right, since he does own those movies.

As for the changes made to the DVDs coming out, I think they're for the better. The CG Jabba in Star Wars doesn't look like shit anymore; Greedo still shoots first, but the scene was reanimated to look more natural; lightsabers look more like they do in the prequels, which is a good thing; and adding young Anakin to the end of JEDI just ties the whole saga together, which is also a good thing.

The one change that pisses me off more than any of the others is that now Naboo (the planet from Episode I) is seen at the end of JEDI celebrating the fall of the Empire. That change takes away the mystery of what happens to Naboo in Episode III. Does the Empire test the Death Star first by blowing up Naboo before they blow up Alderaan? Does Naboo devolve into Dagobah? Nope. It stays the same, and it's just ignored in current Star Wars continuity. That blows.

But THE BIG CHANGE that I was praying for actually happened. Luke's scream at the end of EMPIRE is gone. What used to be a horrible scar on the Best Scene in Movie History is gone. The Empire Strikes Back is once again a perfect, flawless gem of a movie.

Holy shit, I'm a dork...
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skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
24. As far as I'm concerned
It was all downhill after the original anyway.
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Khephra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
25. You all should read the other pages of the Lounge than the first
I posted this little bit of news 3 days ago....

Along with the fact that Greedo and Han now shoot at the same time.
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Screaming Lord Byron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
26. So what. Five seconds of the film will suck.
The Ewoks are still the bigger problem by far. Why couldn't they be digitally removed.
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Kid_A Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Did you know the Ewoks were originally going to be Wookies?
That would have kicked so much more ass than teddy bears with spears.
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Dukkha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. This will be in Revenge of the Sith
The battle on the Wookie planet Kashyyyk intended for ROTJ will play out in Episode III. The studio stills look impressive so far. They used Aussie basketball players as wookies.
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Kid_A Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Hell. Fucking. Yeah!!
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