I'e got to have MAJOR dental work done!

[Sean Reynolds]

It's going to suck, I've got to have major dental work ranging in the price of around 3,000 bucks! I'll be going in next week for it and am not looking forward to it. However, I've been in pain for a long time so I guess it'll be nice when I'm fully done.

3,000 bucks though......and I may need to get a few hundred worth of shit done after that!

:cry:

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. Root canal

Now I go every 3 months whether I need to or not.

Best of Luck

TCO

[Sean Reynolds]

2. Two root canals......

Which blows. I'm not worried because I doubt there will be pain, but damn 3,000 is a lot.

My tooth is killing me because the damn pain pills aren't workin.

[The_Casual_Observer]

8. Back teeth I would guess.

Needless to say you should have been going to the dentist more often.

It isn't painful but sort of traumatic. I was up and eating a Quiznos Classic Italian 10 minutes later.

[Nite Owl]

3. Good luck.

Somehow the dental stuff is just so mean they should pay us to have it done. Paying for that pain is sort of piling on the misery.

[Philostopher]

4. I bought my dentist a boat about three summers ago.

I feel your pain. Well, I did a few summers ago...

Couple of root canals, couple of crowns. Even with partial insurance, it must have cost around what you're contemplating paying. I still joke with him about taking me out fishing with him sometime, since I know I bought his boat the summer of 2001.

[Sean Reynolds]

6. I could just have my teeth pulled........

But the dentist said I was too young and he didn't really want to do that. Though it'd be a lot cheaper.

[Mika]

12. Sean, DO NOT get them pulled. It is not cheaper in the long run

You can't just pull teeth and not replace them without a resulting catastrophe.

Sorry. :(


Floss and brush several times a day. Reduce your sugar(s) intake (it screws with the keratinization of minerals).

[jdj]

32. I just found out

that when you have teeth pulled, the bone around it retires. If you pull enough of them, the bone from the jaw will be re-absorbed by the body, then you have that Leonardo da Vinci sketch look.

[Senior citizen]

13. I had mine pulled--it was all Medic-Aid dental would pay for

I needed 16 teeth pulled and was supposed to keep four to hold the dentures in place.

A drunken dentist pulled 17 teeth, leaving only 3 instead of 4.

The dentures didn't fit, of course, and I had to wear them for a year or not eat, and got an ulcer.

Finally a woman at Medic-Aid took pity on me, and UNOFFICIALLY phoned the dentists and SUGGESTED that they give me a new plate. Afraid that they might lose their certification, they gave in.

It was a big mistake. My teeth were chipped, broken, and rotten, but they were mine and I miss them. On the other hand, these dentures never get cavities, so that's the upside.

[Mika]

14. I am so sorry to hear your story

ANY dentist should do all they can to save your real teeth.


That is how I operate my practice.

[Senior citizen]

19. There's more to the story

This was at a time when few places took Medic-Aid, so I had to go to a clinic.

All my work was done by a foreign-born woman who was a FABULOUS dentist.

So when the time came for the pulling, I pleaded to let her do it.

The clinic insisted that it had to be done by an older white guy. Since I've had previous experience with what I call "GI Bill" doctors and dentists, I went through several weeks of begging and pleading, but they insisted the work had to be done by the guy with the credentials.

It happens that I know how he got those credentials. Like many of his ilk, he was a military desk jockey, got out and went to college on the GI Bill, where, because the government paid his tuition and because he was a veteran and had a family to support, they passed him through no matter how mediocre or even poor his work.

The woman, of course, had to overcome all sorts of discrimination and be at least twice as good as any man to even get through dental school.

I'm not saying there aren't any older white American males who aren't good doctors or dentists. But there are so many "GI Bill" incompetents still around that I always prefer women, minorities, and the foreign born as health care people, if I have any choice in the matter. One thing I know for sure, is that nobody gave them any special favors, so they have to be good.

[Mika]

20. Thanks for posting that story

I started a gory dental story thread,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x1652003


The misogyny in the dental professions is an abomination. I do my very best to stamp out the old and tired ways.

Some of the best and most dedicated dentists I've ever seen are the female dentists in Cuba.

[Philostopher]

26. Mine said the same thing.

Made sense, actually -- if you put a bridge in before you're 50, you're likely to erode the teeth around it until you've pulled several more out, and sometimes the bridge will erode healthy ones.

Pulling the teeth will screw up your bite. My sister let a dentist pull some of hers and didn't replace them with a bridge, and she's had TMJ for years now.

[Mika]

27. New materials are low wear

The dental porcelains of yesteryear were abrasive to the adjacent and opposing dentition. No more.

The new materials, porcelains, composites, denture teeth, almost all are low wear and readily available (your dentist should be aware of these materials, and should be using them).


FYI, TMJ is an acronym for one's Temporo-Mandibular Joint. Everyone has a TMJ, some of us have TMJ related pain.

[AlCzervik]

9. I think i bought mine a new Mercedes or at least he told me i did

He was pretty cool, let me make payments after the initial down pmt.

[Mika]

11. If I had $1 for every time I've heard those lines of crap..

..I'd be able to buy a boat/Mercedes. :crazy:


Your couple of root canals and crowns covered a week of his/her insurance.


I know.

Dr Mika, DDS

[jdj]

21. I got three root canals

and my ears have been ringing since the day they started them.

8 years ago.

No one can help me.

I haven't had a minute of silence in 8 years.

Come to find out, I didn't even need the root canals, but I didn't know that,

Cry me a river, tooth butcher.

[Philostopher]

24. Hey, don't get me wrong.

I'm lucky to have insurance -- paying in full for the work out of pocket would have been twice that much. I didn't have any dental insurance for fifteen years, and had to pay for one crown out-of-pocket a few years earlier, so I know it wasn't all that bad for the work that was done.

My dentist is my age, and he has a great sense of humor -- we needle each other (no pun intended) about lots of things. I wasn't being nasty to him about it. It was a lot of work I had done that summer, and he was willing to save my teeth for me (he said pulling them and putting in a bridge would have been as expensive for me, though less effort for him, and I imagine he's right). It had more to do with the 'we have to stop meeing like this!' feeling I had, I was in there about every six weeks.

[brainshrub]

5. Thank-god for the single-payer system we have in the US... oh wait,

nevermind.

[eleny]

7. If they have nitrous and you can handle it - then have it

It makes a half hour feel like a few minutes. Just a suggestion. Best of luck!

[barb162]

30. I always want to take the Nitrous home with me.

best stuff on the planet.

[Mika]

39. Actuall, N.Ox is much like sniffing glue, paint thinner, or gasoline

Fries brain cells, especially at higher concentrations. NOT GOOD.

[barb162]

44. yes, I know and my current dentist won't use it

and I almost didn't go with him because he didn't use it. However, I forced myself to actlike a grown-up and found I can get through most dental work now without it. But n/o sure eases fear, nothing like it.

[Gogi]

10. I'm facing a potential 5 root canals and cappings

to a tune of between 5 and 6 thousand dollars. Hope my fillings hold out long enough so I can save up the money!

[jdj]

22. Do not do root canals until the teeth abscess and you really

need them.

See my post above.

It's not worth the risk to your health and your hearing, (I may lose mine.)

[Mika]

23. Huh? You think that an infection in the head is a good suggestion? I don't

An abscess close to one's brain can be deadly.

You've had a horrible experience, but coma and/or death is much more serious.

Getting a second opinion for multiple root canals is my suggestion.

[jdj]

28. If the dentist who did my root canals had had one shred

of ethics, I wouldn't be in this shape.

Not to mention filling cavities with the 2nd most toxic element on the face of the earth, because it's cheap, for 100 years, and still TO THIS DAY refusing to admit any wrongdoing, or take any responsibility for the pain they have caused and the lives they have destroyed via auto-immune disorders (lupus, leukemia, rheumatoid arthritis, parkinsons, alzheimers-which astonishing APPEARED just about 100 years ago along with the advent of silver mercury fillings, etc, etc) and only switching to ceramic amalgams when it became clear there might be some risk to THEM from these fillings...

I could go on and on.

Just because there happen to be good people in this business makes it no less of a profit-oriented and bottom-line driven BUSINESS, like every other medical specialty including veterinary.

[Mika]

29. I take exception to your assault

Not all dentists put in toxic fillings. I don't, and neither do any of the thousands of dentist members of the Holistic Dental Association.

But, we do remove these toxic metals from patients AT GREAT RISK TO OUR OWN PERSONAL HEALTH!

Ceramics technology has only recently advanced to the point where it can be used as filling materials.


If you want to bash all of the practice of dentistry, that's your own loss. But, please don't lump us all into the same pile.

It is your responsibility to seek out and educate yourself about the safest health care you can get, and your responsibility to seek out practitioners who do so also.


Dentists have to run a business - that's is how we pay the rent and put our kids through school, not to mention the ed loans to pay off - but, its how they pursue their profession that makes the difference. I, and many others, are practicing the HEALTH CARE profession, not the 'Health-I-don't-Care' practice. Learn to differentiate. That is part of your taking personal responsibility.



Here,
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Holistic+Dental+Association&btnG=Google+Search

[jdj]

31. I know a woman who is having metal toxicity symptoms

has mercury fillings, went to her dentist about it, he says "oh no, it couldn't possibly be from the mercury fillings..." SSDD.


Has the ADA changed it's ruling that any dentist who tells patients about the dangers of silver mercury fillings, (or comes close to admitting the incredible damage they can do the the central nervous system and immune system) can be stripped of their liscense to practice dentistry? If not, I'd be a little more careful about the personal info you post, they might be watching...

I mean, if people can successfully sue because they were harmed by their own choice to smoke, (and at least cigarettes have a freaking warning on the side of the pack) imagine what kind of wringer the ADA will be put through one day, if justice for what they knowingly allowed and endorsed is ever served. It will make the cigarette lawsuits and scandals look like romper room.

[Mika]

34. Maybe you should check the link I posted

.. and read up on the Holistic Dental Association.

Like it or not, dental amalgams have been the most successful restorative for carious teeth than any other restorative material. Its biotoxicity and oxidation qualities make it ideal for this purpose, except that mercury is toxic.

Removal is also dangerous for the practitioner and patient.
See, http://www.pragmaticsw.com/drhuggins/default.asp?PageName=Resources%20-%20Protocol%20for%20Amalgam%20Removal


I'm not a fan of many of the ADA's policy positions, but I think that to pursue the dental profession as a whole as if they were purveyors of cigarettes is mistaken. Unless you want there to be no dentists. :shrug:

Universal health care (that included dentistry) is OK by me.

[jdj]

36. Mad hatters.

used mercury to make felt hats. Went crazy.

In droves. Decades and decades ago.

The ADA has known about this for years and years and years. Denied it at every turn, and kept doing it.

Karma will get these people someday, and "vengeance is mine saith the lord" but I'd like to see some earthly justice dealt out in my lifetime.

I'd rather have a hole in my tooth than be in a straightjacket, or in prison (from emotional (CNR) disorders)or be an alzheimers vegetable.

[Mika]

38. Also, mad dentists

Dentists who use amalgam have high levels of toxins that can make them mad as hatters.

I have a "hyper clean" operatory just for amalgam removal, that includes air filtration and seriously expensive containment and recovery.

Many dentists are just as victimized (if not more so) as patients.

Be careful of dentists who still use amalgam in "regular" operatories.

[jdj]

41. yes, they have the highest rates of divorce and suicide of

any profession, according to insurance adjusters.

None are so blind as those who will not see.

[Mika]

45. Some do see

That is why I have to charge a fee that will ensure the safety of my patients. How the F else would I pay for containment and clean rooms?

I could choose not to treat sick patients, but I don't. I take the risk, but I have to charge to make it as safe as possible. I just could not afford to operate safely without an adequate fee structure for my practice. (FYI, I drive a 4 cylinder Altima.)

[barb162]

33. I recently was told by my dentist of 10 years

I have periodontal disease. I think he just wanted to pay off his new laser drill. I went to another dentist who told me I had no periodontal disease. Then I went to a periodontist to make sure. No disease. I am happy with my new dentist. I used to trust my old dentist... he used to teach at a dental school and had all the latest doodads. I am getting very untrusting of anyone who can make money off of my body. I have had other bad experiences with dentists going way back. But the "you have periodontal disease" is a big one they can make thousands on and it has been around for a good 20 years I would say. A friend's brother is a dentist and he was telling my friend several years back that that line was going around a dental convention as a way to get $$$$$ out of unsuspecting patients.

[jdj]

35. My poor sister, has always had perfect teeth.

Then she went to a dentist who said she had ten cavities in the back of her mouth. He filled two (Used mercury fillings OF COURSE). Then she fell on hard times and couldn't afford any more, moved to a new town, went to another dentist, told him about her holey teeth, he took x-rays and said "you have no cavities. NONE." She probably didn't have the two he did fill either, the bastard. But he put that fucking poisonous shit in her mouth anyway, just to make a buck. It also messes up blood sugar, she gained about 80 lbs right after she got the "cavities" filled.

[Mika]

37. Look. no one forced amalgam on your sister.

It was the option she chose.

Ten fillings at one time is a diagnosis that needs a second opinion before going ahead. She chose not to.

There are other materials that could have been used, she made the wrong choice (in dental practitioner).



I am sorry for her condition, and her mistreatment. I do hope she can get proper treatment.

[barb162]

43. "needs a second opinion"

but how would she know this? Like most patients, she probably just did what the dentist told her...he's the expert.

[jdj]

46. Oh, my behind.

She DIDN'T KNOW that silver mercury was DANGEROUS and she DIDN'T KNOW it because the ADA has fought tooth and nail to keep this information FROM THE PUBLIC for the last 50 years, including, as I stated above, ruling that any dentist ethical enough to actually tell their patients (or anyone) the truth about mercury fillings can be stripped of their liscense. And some have been.

Yeah, my sister was stupid for trusting that there might be good people in the dental profession, which is what you are saying people should do. It sounds like you try to be ethical, but to blame the victim is ridiculous. You should know there are may people who STILL don't know that there are other materials besides silver fillings, and s.o.b. crooks won't tell them.

Hell, I didn't know when I had my root canals that there was more than one material. I had a blood sensitivity test run, and I am reactive to the material they used. Which may or may not be why my ears ring. But they NEVER MENTIONED that I had a choice of materials. When I had my crown done, I had no idea it would have an aluminum base. They never mentioned that either. When I questioned them, they said "all porcelain crowns are very expensive". I freaking would have paid, because it was the one time in my life when I was actually above poverty level. But they never asked. And it's clear they do not want you to know. So now in addition to gutta percha in my teeth, which is not suited for me, I also have a big honkin aluminum crown (alzheimers here I come), not to mention 2 silver fillings I still can't afford to get out, one of which is the root canal and I can't touch it because I can't afford the crown.

I'm going to bed now, so I won't be continuing this repartee. Kudos to you for being ethical, I didn't post any of this so much to attack you as to hopefully raise awareness about silver mercury fillings which I do whenever I see an opportunity. But I do think your attempting to defend the indefensible is not honorable.

Now, you may have the last word, which I probably won't see unless you keep this kicked until tommorrow night.

[Mika]

49. Thanks for your honest post

I am not "blaming" anyone. All parties have been victimized. Some more so than others.

We all have to take responsibility. Ask questions. Research. Don't always trust "authority" and uniforms and titles and certificates on the wall.

Thanks for the discussion on amalgam.

Please read up a little about the Holistic Dental Association. They are outspoken on this issue.

--


"Yeah, my sister was stupid for trusting that there might be good people in the dental profession, which is what you are saying people should do."



There are some good people in the profession. Its not wrong to think that there are some good practitioners. It is not wrong to think that thre are bad ones too. I have not said here that people SHOULD trust only their own current practitioner, I have said repeatedly that one should get second opinions. That way patients can make more informed choices.

Take care.

:hi:

[Piltdown13]

52. Couldn't decide where to jump in...possibly silly question

Interesting discussion of the various types of dental fillings! I've got a question that will probably sound extremely ignorant. Would just about any amalgam filling be clearly visible in the mouth? I ask because I've had two fillings from different dentists (one due to minor decay, one due to a chipped molar); this discussion inspired me to look for mine, and I could only locate the latter for certain -- I don't remember where the other one was because it was caught before the decay reached any of the nerves. Of course, I will bring this up with my current dentist should another filling become necessary; unfortunately, choice of materials never came up with my previous fillings, and despite my extensive dental history (2.5 years orthodontia, immediately followed by a periodontal graft plus regular cleanings...) I had no idea there were options until recently!

[Mika]

54. Amalgams turn dark grey or black after a while.

Although, any part that is occluding with the opposing teeth might be polished silver in color.


Composite and porcelain fillings are pretty much tooth colored, they stay in place by cementation or bonding.


Amalgams stay put for much longer, due to their anti microbial and oxidation properties (this oxidation keeps them mechanically sealed and tight, but it is the oxidation that is considered toxic).

[Piltdown13]

55. Thanks for the info

I'm guessing that the second one was a composite of some sort -- I've had it for over a year, and I couldn't quite tell where it was. The earlier one was almost certainly amalgam -- it's black.

[barb162]

40. I know this story, believe me

I was told to have 4 teeth pulled several years ago and the next 2 dentists told me what the hell for, they're perfect! I still have all of my teeth including my wisdom teeth but that is only because I decided to get consults. I have had various kinds of bullshit pulled on me so many times I almost always go to another dentist for a consult just to make sure. I think a lot of them should be drummed out of the profession.

Did you report your dentist to the State licensing board?

[jdj]

47. I don't think she did.

In my case, I had the recommended procedures, so there's no proof anymore the teeth were healthy, they're dead now.

Night all.

[Mika]

48. How did you know to get a 2nd opinion?

Blind faith gets one nowhere, fast.

I'm glad you got second opinions. Its smart.


I feel that my practice is more secure by helping patients keep their own teeth. They all have grown to trust me because of this approach, and the fact that I encourage them to get 2nd opinions if they're not sure.

-

Periodontal practice is another ball game altogether. Almost everyone over 30 has at least some minor degree of perio disease. Most is treatable/curable with good and rigorous oral hygiene, and dietary care. I would be wary of any periodontist who says that you have none whatsoever (unless you are completely dedicated to fastidious oral hygiene). They could be “letting the grass grow” for a future surgery (major $$$ and pain).

[barb162]

50. the web makes things a lot easier

I had zero signs of periodontal disease, like reddish gums, bleeding, etc. that I found on the web dental sites. SO that got me wondering, what is this guy telling me here. Next two consult dentists, including the periodontist, measured the gums twice and were coming up with ones and twos on that measuring device. (But the week before the guy I went to for ten years said all my teeth but the front were measuring 5s and 6s.)

But about 25 years ago I went to a highly recommended dentist who wanted to do about $6,000 worth of periodontal treatment, telling me my gums were pulling away from my teeth, my teeth were going to fall out, etc. Couldn't look up anything on the web then. That time I just decided to go to another consult dentist (since my HUGE fear of dental work) to see if I really needed it. The answer was N-O. Went to another to be sure and she said no also, the gums are fine.

Maybe my fear level is what motivates me plus maybe the fact I heard from my friend that his dentist brother said this is how you get big bucks out of people. Just about that time almost everyone I knew was getting their gums sliced because they all suddenly had "periodontal disease."

But most people just totally trust their medical providers, they say you need something done, people just do it most of the time.

[Mika]

51. Bottom line: Floss daily, gently brush, and get regular cleanings.

If you can swing it, get one of those new "sonic" electric brushes. ADD it to your daily routine. Change the brush head regularly.

Eat a good diet. Take vitamins and MINERALS. Exercise.


Best of health to you. :hi:

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

15. Hello

I've had six root canals and eight crowns (two of the original crowns broke) and random other fun stuff, including 32 cavities that didn't require root canals (that includes baby teeth).

It sucks. It's just one of those things. The sooner you accept it, the happier you'll be.

you WILL feel a hell of a lot better once it's done, your checkbook just won't.

We are still paying on a $6000 dentist bill from 1998. Fortunately it is under $2K now. And fortunately no interest, but damn. Not having dental insurance suuuuuucks.

[Mika]

16. Umm

"We are still paying on a $6000 dentist bill from 1998. Fortunately it is under $2K now. And fortunately no interest"


See? DDS's are commie bankers too. ;)

Think of how much you would have paid in insurance premiums, and think of the low caliber of lowest bid dentistry (which insurance dentistry is).

Save, and pay as you go is the best bargain now (if one can afford it).

I do support a universal health care system.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

17. What?

I don't understand your comment.....we're very happy we have paid so much on it. And I had a wonderful dentist who did the work and allowed us to pay in installments all these years with no interest.

Again, I don't get what you are trying to say.

[Mika]

18. I'm saying..

.. that us dental practitioners are also zero interest lenders.

We don't just do dentistry.

[Khephra]

25. I'm lucky enough to have an Uncle who loves me

He's footing the bill for my dental work and it's going to cost a lot more than $3000 more than likely. If it wasn't for him I'd just have to have all my teeth pulled, but he's going to allow me to save half my teeth and get permanent partials.

So, in other words, I REALLY feel your pain. I really do. I've been putting up with tooth pain for a decade now.

[walldude]

42. I got a full set of dentures at age 40, take it from me

do whatever it takes to keep your teeth. I thought it wasn't going to be any big deal, turns out it was like losing a damn limb. You don't realize how much they do for you till you don't have them anymore.

[Dem_Loyalist]

53. boy can I identify with this