For Men only: Poll.......Women in a Dress or pants

[BlueJazz]

Poll question: For Men only: Poll.......Women in a Dress or pants

I'm just curious what other men think. I prefer a Date with a woman who wears a Dress ....and yeah, yeah..I know that it's what goes on in her head that truly counts...but still.....

Do you prefer a Woman in a Dress or a pair of pants?

[Maple]

1. I expect the next poll to be

'do you prefer men in a skirt or pants?'

It's just clothing people, a cultural thing, and not open to a public vote. Jeepers.

[Taverner]

3. Not "just clothing"

Any more than a hairstyle is "just hair" or music taste is "just music."

Ones clothing reflects a lot of that person's attitude, mood, and personality. I mean honestly - would you really expect to Ellen DeGeneres to be wearing the same clothes Paris Hilton does?

[Maple]

6. It's a cultural affectation

and nothing whatever to do with gender.

Or...just clothing.

PS...and I don't give a fig what either Ellen or Paris wear, as long as it's suitable to the occasion. That is...no ball gowns to a backyard barbeque. Jeepers....you guys spend too much time at the movies, and view them as reality.

[Taverner]

8. Look to biology

All animals attract based on some outward display. Peacocks do it with feathers, cats and dogs do it with smells...we do it with clothes. To say something is just clothing is to deny the animal within - not very healthy at all.

[Maple]

11. It has nothing to do with 'biology'

It's just cloth.

In the 50's men used to believe that if they picked up a towel and wiped the dishes....ZOT ...they'd turn into a woman.

Look if you're female, you're female...and whether you wear a ton of pink lace, or a space suit...you are still female. That doesn't change because of some current 'fashion'

Julius Caesar wore a skirt fer pity sakes.

[Taverner]

13. No...perception IS reality

If one makes positive associations with a woman in a pink miniskirt (as do I) then that skirt does make that woman more attractive.

By saying clothes are just cloth it becomes reducto ad absurdum, reducing the argument to such a point in which anything and everything is meaningless.

By the same argument you could argue that love is just biochemistry, arsenic is just a chemical compound and George Bush and Kerry are the same because they are both hominid life forms (although we question Bush on that...)

[Maple]

14. LOLOL

It's a temporary cultural thing...a passing fashion.

Just like noserings, and tattoos, or highbutton boots and corsets....all transient.

Nothing to do with actual gender. Whatever is 'in' this year looks attractive to you. You're 'trained' to it by popular culture. Next year it will be something else.

It's just Hollywood hype.

You seem to be a very conformist lot.

[Taverner]

15. I don't think the group here is conformist at all

Whether something is attractive because it's in or not is irrelevant. Many here would argue that string bikinis and big hair are attractive, but neither of those is 'in.'

I think that in your pursuit of nonconformism, you are throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

[Maple]

17. Very conformist

You do what the fashion mags tell you...and next year they'll tell you something different, and yet you'll believe that too.

If you think gender and current American fashion have anything to do with one another, it's a very shallow life you're leading.

[Taverner]

18. Jeez....I try to argue on the basis of logic

and you resort to name calling. Not exactly open-minded is it?

If you think that all who follow fashion are slaves of some sort, then what a myopic view you are holding.

[Maple]

20. I didn't call you any name

nor did you use logic.

I said that if you think cloth changes gender, you have badly confused some local fashion trend with biology.

And since when did following 'fashion' become a requirement in anyone's life??

Priorities eh?

[Taverner]

25. It's not a requirement

But a hobby, much like reading sci fi or watching sports (which I assume you think are too irrelevant as well.)

Cloth does not change gender, and I never said anything of the sort, and I don't think anyone here did either.

And excuse me, I think I used much more logic than your soapbox standing, decrying the room as "CONFOOOOOOOORMISTS!!!!"

[Maple]

30. I love sci-fi

but I never confuse biology with some current local fashion trend.

And if you can't tell the sexes apart without a fashion magazine, or are caught in some kind of gender-based 'natural laws of clothing' maybe you need a better hobby.

[Taverner]

32. My point was

Using your *logic*, I could call you a tool of the system and a conformist because you like sci fi. Chances are you might meet with other sci fi fans, feeling a need to conform to that.

And I NEVER SAID THAT CLOTHING IS THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN TELL THE SEXES APART!!!

[Maple]

34. Mmmmm no

Very few people like sci-fi, and I have yet to meet another person who does likes it, although I'm sure some exist.

Stop being so hung up on appearances. Especially based on some local yokels view of clothing.

Human beings are supposed to be adaptable, and open to change.

Women have been wearing pants for over half a century. Surely you've learned to cope with it by now.

[Taverner]

37. Jeeeezus Fucking Christ

You did not read my posts did you???

I never said I didn't like wearing pants EVER. Please point out where I said that.

And I never made fun of a "yokels" view of clothing - nor do I use the term "yokel".

People have been using reason and logic to frame their debates for several centuries. Perhaps you should try - it's much better than name calling and acting like an ass.

[Maple]

44. I have yet to call anyone a name

I suggested you're too immersed in your current pop culture.

I used the term 'yokel'....as in some 'local yokels' version of fashion....that would be the people who determine fashion in your country...California and New York coutouriers or magazine editors no doubt.

Perhaps you could calm down, and talk rationally about something you seem to have rather strong views on...considering it's just clothing.

[Taverner]

45. "You seem to be a very conformist lot."

And no I have very strong opinions on judgemental people - whether they be "purer than thou" types or fashionistas.

Personally I shop where its cheap, and fashion wouldnt even be considered a hobby for me - its just your holier than thou attitude that irks me.

[Maple]

53. But you are very keen

to announce that women in skirts are more attractive, and more feminine than women in pants?

A trifle judgemental, no?

I said women can wear whatever they want...and still remain women. You are the one insisting they conform to some local cultural concept that YOU are caught up in.

That makes me more open than thou...but I never claimed to be holy at all.

[Taverner]

56. Thats called preference

I prefer skirts to pants, simply because I'm a leg man.

My wife likes pants, and can't stand skirts.

[Maple]

59. A preference you were trained to

You'd be quite different if you were raised in another culture or time, and would find other things attractive.

Grown men used to faint at the sight of a woman's ankle in Victorian times you know. :)

[VelmaD]

38. Ok..I call bullshit

There's no way in hell you've not met other people who like scifi. There are tons of them on this board and we talk about it in the Lounge from time to time. Not to mention there is a HUGE online scifi community for about any show, movie, or book you can name. Not the mention there are consnow even in smaller cities.

Pull the other one...it has bells on it.

[Maple]

46. I would call it bullshit, yes

but not when I'm being polite, like now.

No, I've never met anyone else who likes sci-fi. I've read posts from others elsewhere who do, but that's it.

You wear bells?? Is that in fashion in your city?

[VelmaD]

47. You need to get out more

I suggest googling the name of your city along with "scifi" and "conventions". Or maybe check your local phone book for game shops or comic book stores. They usually know when the conventions are in your area. This ain't rocket science.

Or just plug the name of whatever show/movie/book you like into google or the seach box on yahoo and you'll get thousands of hits that will lead you to lots of scifi fans. Hell, it's the second biggest sector of the net after porn.

[Maple]

50. It's because I'm out in the world a lot

that I know clothing, and any male/female meaning to it is only a cultural concept.

I have no urge whatever to attend sci-fi conventions.

I read it, I don't dress up in costumes, or discuss it with anyone.

But thank you for your suggestions.

[fudge stripe cookays]

66. But you're not polite.

You're being argumentative just for the sake of the argument.

FSC

[fudge stripe cookays]

65. Jeepers you're judgmental.

I'm too old to do what the fashion mags dictate. I'd look like an idiot if I wore that stuff.

I dress for comfort. If my husband happens to find it attractive, that's a bonus.

"We're a very conformist lot?" How many of us have you met personally to make that assumption? If the answer is none, then I suggest you mind your own business. I know you haven't met me, so that answer still applies.

Referring to us all as a group while you remain separate seems to be an excellent way to get yourself labeled something not very nice.

FSC

[SarahB]

16. You're right.

It does matter and it affects the way you're treated in so many aspects of life also, even things you wouldn't think of. It may be wrong or sexist, but it's also the truth.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=1657296&mesg_id=1659980
There have been times in my life where I wasn't up to my potential physically and cared less about the way I dressed and I don't want to go there again. I plan on looking my best (for what that means to me) for as long as I can.

[Maple]

19. I didn't say anything about

being a slob, or not caring how you look just because you were depressed...of course you should always look well-dressed, and well-groomed when you go out no matter what style you wear.....I said a ton of pink lace or a space suit does not change you biologically. It's just clothing.

I can't help how your current society sees you. Maybe you should stop worrying about what the neighbours think.

[SarahB]

22. Ok then...

Let's relax.

Of course what you wear doesn't change you biologically, but it does affect the way you perceive people on some level and we can all choose what we wear to display an image we want to display to an extent.

I don't worry about what the neighbor's think. I like to look my best for myself because it makes me feel better. Anyone else's perceptions can sometimes be a little icing on the cake.

[Maple]

24. Well the only reason

it would affect how you 'perceive' people is if you are totally immersed in a specific culture and fashion.

You can't expect other countries to give up burkkas and their 'perception' of femininity, if you can't handle the idea of women in pants yourself.

Women are human beings. They can wear what they like without it affecting them biologically.

[SarahB]

35. So is it wrong if someone is considered attractive in their culture?

I don't think it is. And even within our culture, people have physical preferences for a partner that have nothing to do with fashion that may attract them. I certainly wouldn't be so presumptuous either to think I'd fit every strait man's definition of attractive in our culture. Neither would I put our culture's definition of physical beauty, be it male or female, on another culture.
Physical attractiveness in whatever cultural definition we subscribe to does not negate our value as human beings or devalue us as intelligent people. Of course we can dress as we like. Hopefully, most women will dress as they find comfortable and attractive for themselves. For different people, it may mean different things and there's nothing wrong with that.

p.s. There's nothing wrong with pants either. I wear them quite a lot myself.

[Taverner]

39. There's no arguing with this guy/gal, SB

He or she seems hell bent on decrying anyone who doesn't beleive the same as he or she does as a conformist tool.

[SarahB]

41. I guess I felt like being a yokel!

*snarf*

[Maple]

57. LOL in a world of 6 billion people

even the fashion mavens and editors of NY are just 'local yokels'

[Maple]

58. Many thanks folks

I had fun playing verbal ping pong with all of you.

Tomorrow night we can discuss whether or not men should wear skirts.

;)

[Maple]

54. Again...I said wear anything

it's just clothing.

I believe it's you that insists on conformity to 1950's norms

[Maple]

43. Dunno...is it wrong to wear a chador or burkka or hijab?

Westerners find that sexist and repressive, not to mention mediaeval.

But if another culture thinks it's hot stuff...then we can't say anything about it....seeing as we dress our women in girdles, bustiers, high heels, tight skirts, low cut tops, a ton of make-up and plastic inserts and insist on parading them around that way ...even on runways and magazines.

My point is that it's strictly a cultural view, and not connected to religion, climate, practicality, comfort or biology.

[BlueJazz]

7. Of course it's open to a public vote.

I didn't want to "skew" the Poll but most Guys I know like the femininity that a dress brings out in a woman.

And Yes...it's no big deal but then most polls (on DU) aren't a big deal. :)

[Maple]

12. I repeat

Julius Caesar wore a skirt.

The pope wears a dress.

Be serious.

[BlueJazz]

23. I am serious

I wouldn't date a Woman that looks like Julius Ceasar or for that matter..the Pope.

I just prefer Woman in dresses.
There's nothing Deeper or anti-Women in it....

[Maple]

36. Well if you'd pass up

a great woman, just because she prefers pants to dresses...I'd say you have deeper issues than can be addressed here.

[jpgray]

42. Well, everyone could wear a burlap sack

But we're attracted to what we're attracted to, and that's it. If I wore a wife beater out with a nice date, I would hardly expect a follwup. Is she unfairly discriminating against my preference? No, she's exercising her own.

[Maple]

48. Well they could

or everyone could just wear pants. Practical, comfortable, and it doesn't change your sex.

You're attracted to skirts because you've been taught to be.

There is nothing inherantly 'feminine' or 'female' about them

It's just cloth.

[jpgray]

49. There was something else in my post there you ignored

If I were to wear a wife-beater on a first date, I would expect to not get a second. Now it is my preference to wear the wife-beater, but it is hers to not go on the second date. She is not discriminating against me for my preference, she is exercising her own. How is this situation any different? People simply have things that attract them and things that do not.

[Maple]

52. Well a wife beater

is a current local American 'fashionable' name for plain ol' mens underwear.

I assume you'd wear more than underwear on a date.

In many places in the world that would get you more than dumped, it would land you in jail.

You dress for the occasion...and if you're going to a fancy restaurant you don't wear a number of things...visible underwear being only one of them, but shorts, sandals, ripped jeans and so on.

You dress up. When women dress up, they can wear pants.

And hopefully, their underwear isn't showing either.

[BlueJazz]

51. You know better than that....

[Maple]

55. I know better than that, yes

the question is, do you?

[BlueJazz]

60. Of course I do.

You should know from my past posts that I'm a Feminist.

[JohnKleeb]

2. eh I dont care

They can look gorgeous in both obviously.

[Lady Effingbroke]

4. many guys I know - (all of them, in fact),

prefer a woman in nothing!

[Taverner]

5. This is true, however

A short bubble-gum pink mini can do more than nudity - but I'm just a skank ;)

[trotsky]

9. Women can be sexy in either but...

a nice pair of pants REALLY shows off the curves sometimes... :evilgrin:

[UdoKier]

10. It really depends.

If you cut a Katharine Hepburn figure in some slacks, or look like Brooke Shields in Calvins - pants are great. Large women in warm-up pants or polyester trousers - no. Better tto go with a nice skirt/blouse combo if you're big.

Conversely, if you've got varicose veins from hell or anles like an elephants, go for some nice trousers.

I like both, though, really.

[VelmaD]

21. Ain't no man gonna tell me what to wear.

Women fought too hard for too long to get the right to wear pants in the first damn place. I will wear what I want when I want and no poll and no man's opinion (and no woman's either for that matter) are gonna make one damn bit of difference to me.

[Taverner]

26. Fight for your right to wear hot pants?

I think I found my next cause ;)

[VelmaD]

28. Hey...if you wanta wear hot pants...

feel free. :P

[BlueJazz]

29. Yep...You're right and no Man or Woman ....

...should ever take that right from you.

...But that's not what I asked...

[VelmaD]

33. The fact that you limited your poll to "men only"...

just set my teeth on edge. Felt like it showed a bit of insensitivity to the history of women's struggle to get to choose about even the simplest things in their lives...like what to wear.

I also think that any man who bases his decision on whether or not to date (or continue dating) a woman on whether she wears a dress or pants doesn't deserve to date any woman and needs to be immediately removed from the gene pool. But that's just me. :)

[BlueJazz]

40. Your Statement.....

"I also think that any man who bases his decision on whether or not to date (or continue dating) a woman on whether she wears a dress or pants doesn't deserve to date any woman and needs to be immediately removed from the gene pool".

...is exactly the words that I would expect any intelligent Human Being
to utter.

Oh...and for the "For Men only"... it wasn't meant as any disrespect to the Woman's struggle (or yourself)

My Mother was a Feminist and (I hope) she taught me well...

[Maple]

31. Right on...as they used to say

Go for it!

[Cush]

27. depends on the woman & styles

some look better in pants, some look better in dresses. Also depends on the style of pants/dress

I'm fine with either

[bikebloke]

61. I prefer ...

...she wears whatever she wants.

[Kahuna]

62. Only on DU can a pissing contest ensue over slacks vs. dresses...

Unbelievable. :eyes: It's just a question about "personal" preference. The key word here is "personal." Is a person not entitled to have a "personal" preference now? I know that we have lost some freedoms since the chimperor moved in. But you can't even blame the loss of freedom of preference on him. Not yet.

[Kat45]

64. I bet the freepers could get in a pissing cntest over it too!

:D

[MercutioATC]

63. Depends on the dress, depends on the pants.

Depends on the woman, most of all.

If a woman is wearing something she's comfortable in that fits her personality, that's really all that matters to me.

[Meshuga]

67. It all depends on the mood

They are all cool!

[Misunderestimator]

68. I'm not the slightest bit attracted to a woman in a dress...

unless she's attractive for other reasons, and then her wearing a dress (unless it's some sort of formal occassion) would most likely turn me off somewhat. Of course, I'm not a man, and right now I'm happy I'm gay since I don't give a flying f*ck what any man thinks of the way I dress.

I DO know some gay women who prefer women in dresses, and some who prefer to wear dresses themselves (I had an ex-girlfriend like that, and a HIGH maintenance one at that)... so, to each his/her own, I say.