Anyone paying attention? Bonds just hit #699!

[Ernesto]

They walked him twice, but he hit one out in the ninth. He's only 15 behind the Babe!

[Wapsie B]

1. Love him

or hate him, he's a lock for Cooperstown.

[Krupskaya]

2. And his team still won't make it to the playoffs!

MVP, my fat ass.

[nickgutierrez]

3. Bonds is the definition of MVP

Without him, this team is the Diamondbacks.

[northzax]

25. He's such the MVP that it should now the the Bonds Award

as soon as he retires.

[Surf Cowboy]

5. If he's not the MVP, then Who IS?!!!

And back it up with stats.

BTW, if you want to save an hour of wasted time, don't even try.

You can't do it.

[RivetJoint]

10. Beltre

followed by Pujlos (sp) Both are in the running for the triple crown. Both of their teams will/should make the playoffs. If the Giants don't make the playoffs (especially since they were picked to win the NL west), Bonds WILL NOT win the MVP.

[FredScuttle]

12. So, only players on playoff-bound teams are eligible for MVP?

By your standards, Ernie Banks wouldn't have got within sniffing distance of the MVP, ever. Or Roberto Clemente for his only MVP in 1966. Or about a few dozen others I could mention.

Pujols and Beltre are very deserving this year, but you have to acknowledge the impact Bonds has on every game. The Giants would be nowhere without him, while I would suggest that the Cards and Dodgers would be still pretty well off without Pujols and Beltre, respectively.

[Magrittes Pipe]

15. I'm not so sure that Pujols is even the best player on his own team.

If you consider defense, Scott Rolen may deserve that nod.

Even without Pujols, the Cards still have Rolen and Edmonds. Without Bonds, the Giants have A.J. Pierszynski. *crickets chirping*

[RivetJoint]

16. Not at all

I'm just staying that a man who leads his team to the playoffs has a little bit of an advantage. The Dodgers would be behind the Giants without Beltre. Beltre or Pujols will win the MVP.

[Surf Cowboy]

17. Whatever you're smoking, please share...

Beltre has 530 At Bats.

Pujols has had 526

Bonds has had only 331.

That being said, look at the stats:

AVG: Bonds (.375); Beltre (.340); Pujols (.329)

HITS: Bonds (124); Beltre (180); Pujols (173)

RUNS: Bonds (115); Beltre (96); Pujols (120)

RBI: Bonds (94); Beltre (106); Pujols (110)

HR: Bonds (41); Beltre (45); Pujols (43)

BB: Bonds (203); Beltre (41); Pujols (75)

SO: Bonds (33); Beltre (77); Pujols (44)

Slugging %: Bonds (.831); Beltre (.645); Pujols (.660)

On Base %: Bonds (1.445); Beltre (1.032); Pujols (1.072)


So what you're saying is: Beltre is the MVP because:

1. He struck out only 44 more times than Bonds;
2. His OBP is only 400 points less than Bonds;
3. His Slugging % is only 196 points less than Bonds;
4. He has 162 fewer walks than Bonds;
5. His average is only 35 points less than Bonds;
6. He's scored 19 fewer runs than Bonds.

But I guess you're hanging your hat on:

1. Beltre has 12 more RBI than Bonds (with only 200 more at-bats);
2. Beltre has 4 more HR than Bonds (with only 200 more at-bats);
3. Beltre has 56 more RBI than Bonds (with only 200 more at bats).


Consider this: if Bonds had the at bats of Beltre, his numbers would read as follows:

HR: 65-70

RBI: 170-180

SO: 45-55

Hits: 220-240

Just because Managers and pitchers are too pussy to pitch to him doesn't mean he's not the most valuable player in MLB.

[RivetJoint]

40. If a bullfrog had wings...

You get the point. Mark my words. Bonds will not be the MVP. For VARIOUS reasons. Among them: the Giants were picked to win the NL West; they won't. Writers and fans, in general, don't like Bonds. Beltre is having a career year and will be rewarded for it. If he doesn't win, Pujlos will.

[Surf Cowboy]

41. If he doesn't win, it's Bullshit.

If you put him on ANY contending team, they would then be the favorite to win the Series. NY, Boston, Oakland, Chicago, LA, Atlanta, STL--wherever. He's the best player this year, last year, the 10 years before, and probably of all time. His numbers don't lie. He is so amazing, we don't even know what to think anymore. Pujols or Beltre may win, simply because people are tired of Bonds' dominance--and that's no reason to win. Only one man deserves it, and that man is BB.

[RivetJoint]

43. He IS the best player in baseball

no doubt. He still won't win the MVP.

[Surf Cowboy]

4. I'm always paying attention to Barry "U.S." Bonds.

I saw him hit 689 in Philly a couple weeks back.

He's my favorite ballplayer--easily.

The greatest EVER!!!

Hard to believe that Pujols(hype-cat extraordinaire) has only 3-4 more HRs this year, considering that he's had more than 150 extra at-bats.

BARRY IS THE MLB MVP!!!

[joeybee12]

6. Barry Bonds needs to be thrown out of baseball!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We all know he did steroids, and his records should be taken away!

Compare the way he's being treated to the way marion Jones has been. I think she took steroids, but since she's a woman, and doesn't have all of major league baseball protecting her, she gest hounded. A rotten double standard, and it amkes me sick!

[Magrittes Pipe]

7. He was the best player since Mays BEFORE 2001.

He cemented himself as a top-10 player before anyone ever alleged that he was on 'roids.

[nickgutierrez]

8. I assume that means you have a positive test result? n/t

[Uzybone]

11. By your standards

so should McGwire, Giambi, Sheffield and anyone who has ever had suspicion of using steriods. Lets all ban them without any proof.

BTW what US track and filed did to marion and any other athletes who were hounded even though they never tested positive for roids is wrong.

[joeybee12]

21. BTW, I'm talking more about how the media pounced on marion...

...they've stayed away from Barry, who has a lot of money, and major league baseball, which has a lot of power.

Also, McGwire admitted to using what he did--and it wasn't banned.

And Giambi is now paying for his steroid use.

[northzax]

26. your righteous anger is strange

Marion Jones hardly was poor, and all she had behind her was Nike.

[joeybee12]

27. Yeah, like track and field athletes make more money than baseball

players....there's a huge difference that you fail to grasp.

[northzax]

28. mmm, we all feel for the poor multimillionaires

being hounded by the man.

to repeat: there is no evidence whatsoever that has been released that shows either Marion Jones or Barry Bonds took illegal performance enhancing substances. It is Barry's good fortune to belong to a Union (I thought liberals liked that kind of thing) And so he receives more protection from being hounded by accusations that may be baseless. Marion Jones is an independant contractor. What you have here is what happens when unions get busted.

[joeybee12]

29. No, what we have is the difference between allegations against a man

and those against a woman. Fucking double standard.

[northzax]

30. you are correct

one allegation is against a man, the other against a woman. But that is not the only variable, so why do you insist on selecting it as the key one?

you also have allegations against a person generally disliked by the media (Bonds) and someone generally liked by the media (Jones) should that fall into account?

someone who plays under lower burdens of proof (bonds) and someone who plays under higher ones (Jones)

Someone who was married to, dated (and had a child with) and trained with a coach, all of whom are banned for steroid use (Jones) and someone who has never been associated with known dopers (Bonds) \

but I guess this whole male/female thing is too big to overcome, huh?

[joeybee12]

32. Bonds has never been associated with known dopers? His contacts and

ties to Balpac (or whatever the company is called) is well known. It's pretty obvious he's done them, and it's pretty obvious Marion has. And I disagree that Bonds is disliked by the media--they treat him with kid gloves.

[JVS]

13. AMEN!!!

[GOPisEvil]

14. Guilty until proven innocent, huh?

Despite Bush's best efforts, this is still the USA.

[Blue_Tires]

9. roids....

Let's see what kind of health problems he encounters about 15-20 years from now

[Surf Cowboy]

18. BTW, how is Dexter Manley?

[Blue_Tires]

20. he's surviving, as far as i know...

he may have been coke-snorting, crack-smoking illiterate, but at least he didn't permanently taint any record books...

The truth will come out about ol' Balco-boy...It may not be tomorrow (it would be with a real MLB commish), it may not be years from now...but it will come out


(someone needs to make me the commish)!

[Surf Cowboy]

22. Sounds like Bush needs to appoint you to Atty. General

Ashcroft must be too soft.

BTW, until someone actually produces some sort of direct evidence (which, in 2 years has yet to be produced), you're basically just being a playa hata.

What about McGwire? Caminiti? Canseco? Sosa? Sheffield?

Also, I'm curious...how do steroids keep him from swinging at bad pitches?

Also, how do steroids make him hit the ball at the perfect angle for homeruns?

If I take steroids, will my golf shot straighten out?

[Blue_Tires]

33. piss on atty gen., i want to be commish

McGuire, Caminiti, and Canseco are out of baseball, so there's nothing that can be done (but something should have been done while they were playing, hence the need for a real commish)...I do however feel that Sosa (whose use of the juice is also as obvious as Bonds), Sheffield, Giambi, et al need to be harshly punished...

I've watched baseball every year for 20 years, and I remember when Barry first came into the league weighing in at a scant 170 lbs...And I'm supposed to believe that at the END of his career, he bulks up to a puffy 235 and puts up numbers BETTER than he ever did before, when he was younger, faster has better reflexes, etc??? It doesn't wash...

I seem to remember a piece in the Chronicle last year that it was testified in U.S. District Court that Bonds actually took delivery of a package from Balco...That alone doesn't prove absolute guilt, but you must agree it's pretty damning...I'm not sure that steroids is his real drug of choice, but even the most hardcore supporter MUST agree that he's on SOMETHING...My guess is one of the designer drugs which is a cocktail of different performance enhancers, which probably blurs the line between legal and illegal...steroids? vitamin A? wheaties? The truth is probably somewhere in between, but he does need to come forward with what he's using, imo...

To answer your question about testing, we don't know if Bonds has tested positive or not...MLB did closed-doors testing at the start of the 03 season, with the stipulation that if less than 5 percent of the players tested positive, there would be no need for regular testing...Well, guess what? Even with advance knowledge of the upcoming test (an obvious out), the players failed miserably to meet the quota. MLB will not say how big the percentage was, but the best insider estimates put the number at between 8-15 percent...AND true to their best CYA nature, MLB does not release names of those that test positive...yet, if I'm Joe Shlabotnik of the Kansas City Royals, and I test positive for coke or grass, I'm on the front page of USA Today...

Finally, about his actual on-field performance...A lot of factors are involved in the numbers he's put up the last couple years, like shitty, diluted pitching, a lower pitching mound, a livelier, tighter wound ball (even MLB admitted to this back in 2000, iirc), and BS umping (even you have to admit that Barry's strike zone is about 6in by 6in, as they are for most sluggers, as the mandate from MLB came down years ago to promote the long ball)...Now i can't attest for hand-eye improvements while on the juicy juice, but i don't need a theoretical physics degree to know that it adds a little something to batted balls (e.g. 390ft fly outs become 420ft HRs)...add all these factors up, along with a few peripherals, and it adds up to a run at Ruth Aaron...

p.s.: I was never a Fred McGriff fan, but when he first retired, a journalist asked what he was most proud of. his answer? "The fact that I still have the same body I came into the league with." just food for thought.

[Surf Cowboy]

37. As I was saying, why don't you explain how the steroids keep him from

swinging at bad pitches. When you can do that, then I'll give your point some creedence. Incidentally, Bobby Bonds started baseball well under 200# himself, but retired at almost 240#. My father was 165 pounds when he was 17 (in Korea), but by the age of 30 (after lifting weights), he was 245 pounds. At his largest (50 y/o), my dad weighed > 300# (56" chest, 21" arms, 40" waist). I can assure you he did not take steroids. I was 165 pounds when I graduated HS, and I have grown to over 200# in the 13 years since (more muscle than fat). So your assertion that weight gain in a training athlete is somehow proof of steroids just won't cut it.

And taking delivery of a package, the contents of which were not known, proves nothing. Nothing at all. Only that something from Balco was delivered to Bonds. Incidentally, it is well known (by most) that Balco produces many legal supplements, and has been accused of producing only one psuedo-illegal (the law is not terribly clear in this matter, yet) substance. So, just by %, (oh and that annoying little innocent-until-proven-guilty thing), it's just as likely that he took legal supplements.

Until something is shown to be more likely than not, you're just a hata.

[Blue_Tires]

44. sigh...another apologist for 'alzado' bonds

if you take the fanboy blinders off for a minute, you'd probably want to at least KNOW what Bonds got from Balco, whether it was legal or not...if everything is above board, why has he been so secretive and defensive??

ok...so both you and your dad have gained weight since HS...tell me what sports you play on a professional level, along with your ideal playing weight...And Barry put on the majority of the weight in the last few years...who in the name of holy hell actually adds 20-30 lbs of solid muscle after the age of 35?? If it were that simple, every over-the-hill player on the decline (especially in the AL) would look like Mr. Olympia...

and you can call me hata if you want, but Barry brought this shit on himself...I personally made him take nothing...And you still haven't addressed the fact that MLB and the MLBPA have actively covered up any notion that something 'unnatural' is accounting for every team having high-octane offenses...softball game scores...#8 hitters hitting the ball 500 ft. Teams scoring 17 runs and still losing...but hey; MLB threw anything resembling integrity and the good of the game out of the window a long time ago..Hell; I hope Barry hits 1,000 HR to solidify his place as the greatest player to never win a world series. (move over Teddy Ballgame)...

If you're tight with Barry (you have defended him here admirably) maybe you can ask him yourself next time you see him...I am confident that time will eventually prove me right on this matter...all it takes is a little investigative journalism, and a whistleblower on the inside...

I understand where you're coming from, and this can be a hard thing to deal with...When I was 12, the only thing I ever wanted to do was be like Jose Canseco (no one hit the ball further than he did in his heyday)..I defended him too when the allegations came out, but when he flat out admitted it a couple years ago, i accepted it...

[demosincebirth]

19. Steroids

[Surf Cowboy]

23. How do the 'roids keep him from swinging at bad pitches?

You mean to say that if I had taken 'roids back in high school that I would have stopped swinging at bad pitches? That I would have developed a HR swing instead of my line-drive swing?

Will they straighten my golf shot?

[Magrittes Pipe]

24. Surf Cowboy, when will you learn?

Bonds-haters are not interested in facts. They are only interested in hating someone they've never met; who may or may not be on 'roids, they don't know any better than you or I.

I'd rather just sit back and watch that swing. But maybe that's just me.

[demosincebirth]

35. I've met Bonds and the guy is a jerk

Compare a picture of him when he was with the Pirates and now. Getting that buff, he must worked out 20hrs a day.

[Surf Cowboy]

38. Well, I've read some of your posts, and you are a jerk.

Or, maybe just reading some of your posts (or meeting you once) isn't really enough time to learn anything about you. Especially if I start with the assumption that I don't like you.

But, if it's good enough for you, who am I to argue?

[ronnykmarshall]

31. What's Hank's record?

[nickgutierrez]

34. 755 home runs

[Ernesto]

36. Calm down. Let's review this in the morning.

[ProfessorGAC]

39. Did You Know That Just From Bases on Balls. . .

. . .his on base percentage is over .290! If he didn't get a single hit all year, he would still have an on-base percentage above the league average!

That's pretty incredible! His hitting is creating such fear that they walk him enough to be on base at a clip that is higher than all the rest of the guys in the league.
The Professor

[Surf Cowboy]

42. Insane. Just insane...