So after 12 years of vegetarianism, I started eating beef again

[Julien Sorel]

last week (I won't bore y'all with the reasons). The problem is, I just don't like the taste, and I can't get used to it. After eating a hamburger, I have the urge to throw up, and I lose my appetite for the rest of the day. The thought of eating something like steak makes me retch, and the sight of meat in the butcher section of the supermarket kills my appetite on the spot.

Has anyone else given up meat and tried to go back to it after an extended period? I used to love it, so this is really weird for me and upsetting.

[phaseolus]

1. if it tastes bad, don't eat it...

not a veggie but beef and lamb just don't taste all that good to me... with the possible exception of Texas Barbecue Brisket. (And I hate, hate, HATE venison. I dread deer season with all the hunters sharing their meat.) I much prefer pork, chicken, or turkey .... or even goat.

[Julien Sorel]

4. Unfortunately, I really need to add it back to my diet.

Chicken and fish are fine, but pork is absolutely out for ethical reasons (the reason I gave up meat in the first place). Beef is relatively cheap, and the easiest to cook, which are big factors in its favor. Fish is a pain to prepare properly, and I've gotten food poisoning twice in my life from bad fish in restaurants, so I'm very leery of it.

What I'm wondering is, is there a period of time it takes to get used to beef again, or is this some psychological hangup or what have you. If others have had similar experiences, it would clarify it.

[ze_dscherman]

2. I basically am vegetarian

but occasionally have eaten small portions of meat to not offend others (some cultures are sensitive if you refuse food). I don't like it at all, and just the thought of eating steak turns my stomach around. Also, the smell of raw meat is disgusting to me.

If your body refuses to eat meat, better listen to it.

[gmoney]

3. A friend has problems with meat products...

...a woman I know who's been vegetarian for years does actually get sick if she accidentally eats meat (someone slips bacon into a dip, or like that).

So it's probably not a strictly psychological reaction.

How does chicken, turkey, tuna, etc sit with you? If you're going after protein, those should fill the bill, but might cause less of a reaction than a greasy cheeseburger.

If you're doing this for medical/health reasons (Atkins?), you should probably consult with your doctor or maybe a nutritionist to learn about the best ways to introduce meat into your vegetarian-conditioned system.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

5. Try chicken, turkey or other poultry

red meat is a big leap for a vegetarian, and your body probably won't be happy. If it's protein you need, eggs, poultry and fish are good sources.

If you have had issues with fish, did you try some locally fresh fish (ocean or lake)? I tend to broil fish or sautee it. Do you like scallops and shrimp? these are good sources of protein and lower in fat and taste great prepared with asian spices.

[tjdee]

6. That's how I knew I was pregnant, actually.

I had stopped eating meat when all of a sudden I craved it like some rabid animal. I started with chicken but leaped to my first love cheeseburgers/cheesesteaks soon enough. No prob for me!!

But, a friend of mine started eating meat again after a number of years with a cheeseburger and got really sick--a few years later she re-started with chicken and eats meat....still doesn't eat too much beef though.

Wow, I didn't really help at all. Sorry :)

[Bridget Burke]

7. The "cheapness" of the beef may be a problem.

I'm not too picky when dining out but I tend to buy the best beef possible for home cooking. To me, the more naturally grown beef definitely tastes better. And pre-ground beef is problematic.

In the short run, I'd suggest not forcing it. Go for other sources of protein & try beef again later.

[amazona]

8. i lasted 3 years, then eating meat felt and tasted right

I ended my vegetarian diet when the health issues I was experiencing went away, allowing me to eat meat. Also, I found that eating meat was a significantly more cost effective way for me to get sufficient calories than remaining on a vegetarian diet. So it was relatively easy for me to go back to eating meat, as long as I didn't overdo too much at first.

If it tastes bad to you, then you may want to go slow about re-introducing meat to your diet. I don't know your issues, but if the problem is pernicious anemia, you may not be able to digest meat properly any longer and even if you eat meat now, you will not be getting sufficient B-12 -- in that case, you will always need injections of B-12. This was the case with someone I knew, now deceased from another cause. Some people lose the ability to absorb this vitamin from food after age 40, has nothing to do with their diet, even if they ate pure Atkins, they would still need injections. So if you have been diagnosed with pernicious anemia, please stay on top of it to be sure it is caused by diet and not a genetic/age-related factor.

If you have been on a low fat diet, you may not be tolerate too much animal fat in the diet and may literally vomit if you eat too much at first. This happened to me but I was able to re-adjust my metabolism and now I can eat meat OK. Just watch the fat for awhile. For years chicken wings would do it every time.

If you have eating disorder issues, then you may need professional advice but even with professional help a lot of people have trouble getting over the "gross-out" factor they experience that causes them not to want to eat meat and an ever-growing list of other foods. Not sure what to tell you there. You can maintain weight with nuts, seeds, cheeses, etc. if you can't face meat. I weigh myself regularly and make a point of consuming enough calories to maintain a healthy weight. It doesn't have to be beef although, for social reasons, it can be very useful to be able to eat what others are eating.

[Magrittes Pipe]

9. So this friend of mine... okay, more like my friend's friend...

I've always known her as a vegetarian. He's always known her as a vegetarian, and he met her his first week of college in '93. A couple months ago, we paid her a visit to find her eating a burger.

The first hamburger she'd eaten in 16 years.

She LOVED it, and din't get at all sick.

Meat... is there anything it can't do? :loveya:

[livinginphotographs]

10. I stopped eating beef after a bout of lactose intolerance.

Suprisingly, beef became just as bad as milk. Even though I've started eating dairy products again, I haven't eaten any beef in about five years. Just the thought of it makes me want to vomit, and all the horror stories I heard from my brother (he used to work for PETA) about the health effects of eating beef make me even more leery.

Try turkey. I use that as a beef substitute in spaghetti, casseroles, etc., so it's just as easy to prepare, and probably a bit better for you.

[flvegan]

11. Body's not really made to eat meat...

So no surprise. Sorry to hear of the relapse, but to each his/her own. I'm a vegan and for the environmental, human, animal and health reasons, I'd never go back.

[Terran]

12. How do you figure that?

No offense, and I very much admire vegans, but what makes you think the human body isn't "made" to eat meat? Humans are omnivores, and our distant ancestors survived by eating a combination of forage and hunted game, before they invented agriculture. Our current problem is that we eat far *more* meat than is conceivably necessary.

[flvegan]

14. Without going into the biological

aspects too deeply, as I'm far underqualified for that, simply compare your body to a true carnivore (teeth, digestive tract, etc). Plus, if we were meant to eat it, why can't we eat it raw (besides the contaminants and that the eating of uncooked animal feces spreads e.coli)?

Yes, we are omnivores, that is correct.

EMagazine has both sides of this, from a couple experts, so to speak, here: http://www.emagazine.com/view/?143

[mrboba1]

15. So if we are omnivores and you agree with that

then you agree that we are able to eat meat. I also would say - look at our teeth, they combine the meat tearing teeth with the chewing ones for plants.
You should not compare it to a carnivore, because we are not carnivores. Nor could you compare it to an herbivore, because we are not that either.

[flvegan]

20. As I said

Not meant to. We're "able" to do lots of things we weren't really meant to do.

[mrboba1]

24. mmmkay....

[Terran]

39. Not "meant" to do?

I hate to put you on the spot, because this has been such a civilized discussion, but not meant by whom or what? Can you give another example of such behavior?

Fundie Christians would say we're not meant to engage in homosexual sex, for reasons that are obvious to them. But many people believe that we (as a species) have homosexuality (and are encouraged to do it on some level because it's just as pleasureable as reproductive sex) because it's a natural means of limiting population...which implies in some sense that we *are* "meant" to do that, as a species, because it helps us survive as a species.

To me, anything humans can generally do as a species that hasn't wiped us out over the long haul is something we are "meant" to do, i.e., we evolved, successfully, to do it. By that logic, about the only thing we're not meant to do is build nuclear weapons.

[flvegan]

43. As in designed to, meant to

Be it created or evolved or built by aliens.

I like to think that lots of things we do as a species we weren't "meant" to do. We should've evolved into peaceful, less selfish sentient beings.

I'm certainly not a fundie christian, if that's what you were thinking or were inquiring about...

[Magrittes Pipe]

16. Uh...

We CAN eat it raw.

:eyes:

[flvegan]

19. Hope you live near a good emergency room...

[crispini]

38. Eaten raw meat before.

No problem for this meat-eater!

[Terran]

26. Having read the article

I think the academic trying to show that humans are not carnivores presents a pretty weak argument, *because* he doesn't even mention omnivorism. I mean, it's clear we are *not* carnivores, and who in their right mind would claim that? However, as the other academic pointed out, we have plenty of characteristics that make it natural for humans to eat meat, which just shows we are omnivorious.

One fact that wasn't ponted out at all by either person was that we have canine teeth, which are used for ripping rather than grinding. I always figured the presence of canines as well as molars shows that humans are certainly built to eat meat as well as vegetable matter. And the first guy says that the fact that "carnivores pant" is an indication that humans are not carnivores; well, that's partly true, but some omnivores, like dogs, pant also. So *not* panting doesn't prove anything.

He also indicated that humans lack the natural weaponry needed to hunt down animals; but he fails to note that we have one natural weapon no other animal hunter has: our large brains. I have read some commentary that indicated that meat-eating may have been a factor that enabled our brains to get to that size; don't recall the specifics of the chemistry, possibly the previously unknown amounts of protein being consumed.

To me, the mere fact that humans can and do digest meat and get nutritional benefits from it is evidence enough that we *are* designed to do so. Now, philosophically, I'm probably on your side. I wish and hope that one day we'll be able to give up meat entirely; ethics aside, it's no longer a sustainable form of food production, from a global standpoint.

[Xithras]

31. Yep, meat eating drove human evolution

Basically, our most ancient primate ancestors were bug eating vegetarians. About the time the first evidence of human meat eating shows up, the proto-human brain started growing at a prodigious rate. Human evolutionary thinking currently holds to this theory: The proto-human brain and body structure was adapted to a vegetarian diet and operated at a relatively low metabolic rate. For reasons we don't entirely understand (but which was likely caused by drought or famine), these proto-humans began scavenging meat to supplement their diet. This meat had the effect of introducing far more protein into the proto-human body than it actually needed to operate. This protein overlap caused two things to happen: 1) It allowed the protohumans to spend less time scavenging for food, leaving more time available to explore their world and interact socially. 2) The excess protein accelerating the metabolism of the protohuman bodies, allowing the ASPM gene to work overtime (the ASPM gene supports development of the cerebral cortex).

So basically, the advent of meat eating allowed our ancestors to spend more time learning, and gave them a better ability to remember what they learned. Skull size limited intelligence for thousands of centuries as evolution only gradually allowed the brain to expand, but it was meat eating that drove the brain expansion and the evolutionary process.

[flvegan]

35. T'would seem protein drove evolution

Where it came from being more of an aside to the point.

VERY interesting reading, though (not being condescending or less than honest).

[Xithras]

40. True, but nothing else could match it.

Pound for pound, there is no food source with more protein than raw meat. While protohumans could have potentially eaten the same amount of protein by digesting tubers or other plants, they would have required much larger helpings. Animals that evolve in environments with hostile predators only rarely eat large meals even when sufficient food is available because an overly full stomach impairs the ability to flee if needed. So while those protein levels might have been achieved strictly from plant sources, it is highly unlikely that they would have ever actually consumed enough of it to make a difference. Raw meat had the advantage of introducing a large amount of protein into the system within a relatively small meal. There are no naturally occurring plants that match the protein levels of raw meat, and the evolution of the human brain would have never occurred without that balance.

In other words, without meat, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[flvegan]

45. I certainly can't

Refute anything you say, in this post or otherwise. I'm obviously far beneath your knowledge of evolution, and, I wasn't there as an eyewitness. However, it is otherwise possible that we'd be having this conversation, even without your scenario.

I'd really have to dig into the research, but I think there's argument against the quality of protein in animal products, it's bioavailability and absorption, and it's ranking.

[Rabrrrrrr]

29. What do you mean we can't it raw? Sure we can

other than the obvious health issues you raise, such as e coli etc., there's nothing in our body's design that makes us incapable of eating raw meat.

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

[flvegan]

34. Okay, then

How would your body stave off the problems caused by the various bacteria common in all meat?

[Terran]

36. I think you're looking at that issue incorrectly

Sure, most of us can only get our meat raw at a market, where bacteria is certainly an issue. But as far as out bodies go, any of us could hunt an animal, kill it, and then eat it on the spot, and in that case we wouldn't have to worry about bacteria because the meat is fresh. Our ancestors probably had sharper noses than we do, and that no doubt helped them avoid things like tainted meat and fecal matter in their food. Bacteria is an issue because of how we produce our food, not because of our bodies ability to deal with it.

[flvegan]

41. I disagree

With your statement on the hunting/killing/eating something and not having to worry about bacteria.

[Xithras]

49. Why?

Animals have the same immune systems that we do, and their meat is just as disease free as our own. Now, if you happen to kill an animal while it's sick you might have an issue, but the odds of that are slim and you can TELL a sick animal when you see one (our ancestors were intelligent enough to avoid eating animals with obvious disease).

E Coli in food today is almost always introduced after the slaughter...while the meat is being processed, packaged, or stored. Meat that never see's a professional butcher has an extremely tiny probability of being infected with anything.

[Xithras]

37. The explanation is actually pretty simple

First, Hemorrhagic E Coli and Salmonella historically weren't nearly as prevalent as they are today...Hemmoragic E Coli wasn't even known in the U.S. until the early 1980's. The spread of these diseases was driven by farming methods that pen meat herds and the techniques used to slaughter and store animal meat. The meat of a free range cattle, bison, or even rabbit is usually disease free if you kill and eat it right away...as our ancestors did. I won't vouch for the taste, but it's actually one of the healthiest things you can put into your body.

Second, despite the fears that people have about them, they are rarely fatal diseases. They may have been uncommon, but people did catch them and they survived it. Both diseases cause stomach problems and diarrhea for about a week, but then pass as the bodies immune system fights it off. Only the very young, the ill, and the elderly typically faced real health risks from these diseases (a fact that's still true today...E. Coli is a nasty disease, but it won't kill an otherwise healthy adult). When compared to the other disease and injury risks faced by early humans, I'm sure they weren't too worried about it...the flu and pneumonia have killed FAR more humans than eating raw meat ever did.

[flvegan]

42. Absolutely!

Our "farming" and slaughtering methods are to blame for the majority of these types of diseases.

[Rabrrrrrr]

55. You had already eliminated disease as a possible issue

That's the way you had set up the issue of not eating raw meat: you said if we were meant to eat it, why can't we eat it raw (besides the contaminants and that the eating of uncooked animal feces spreads e.coli)?

I thought you were asking "why can't we eat it raw, besides the reason that raw meat is loaded with contaminants, etc."

That's why I wasn't sure what you meant. Led to believe that you thought there was a problem with our dentistry or digestion that couldn't handle raw meat, even if it was utterly disease and contaminant free.

And, of course, as others have already pointed out, it's only modern day industrialized meat that has the problem of diseases anyway; so the issue of diseases doesn't help the argument that says we aren't supposed to eat meat.

I apologize if my confusion confused you.

[flvegan]

57. Not at all...

Contaminants aside, the bacteria might well do one in. I think that any animal might have such bacteria. Even a fresh kill.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

44. mmmm steak tartare

with loads of caviar and onions!

[TX-RAT]

52. why can't we eat it raw

We can.
Most choose not to.

[curse10]

53. Welcome to DU flvegan

be prepared to defend your veganism :hi: I gave up arguing with meat eaters on this board long ago. Wasn't good for my blood pressure (much like eating meat....)

:D

[flvegan]

58. Thanks!

I didn't think I'd need to defend it, nor argue the point. Seems like lots of really great, tuned-in folks are here at DU. I spend too much time in my "other life" arguing this point, so I hope to simply meet on mutual ground with my fellow DUers on our mutual battleground...getting GWB the hell up outta the WH.

We're all on the same team there, right?

[mrboba1]

13. What is it that you need?

Protein? Iron?

There are plenty of other ways of getting what you need without meat products. (And this coming from a person who would rather die than give up eating hamburgers...) :)

[Julien Sorel]

18. Protein, calories, some taste,

and inexpensively.

[mrboba1]

25. I see. Inexpensively.

Sometimes things look more expensive than they really are. When you do some break downs of cost, you may be surprised that you really don't spend as much as you think.

Good luck - it looks like you're getting some good suggestions here...

[prolesunited]

27. Actually, how do you figure eating meat is LESS expensive

Did you allow dairy and eggs into your diet? Those are both relatively inexpensive sources of protein. Nuts are high in calories. Peanuts? How many different types of beans are out there?

Can you tell me what you have been eating that you feel it lacks protein, calories and taste?

If you are determined to eat meat, I would ease into it gradually to allow you system time to adapt.

[Julien Sorel]

47. It's less expensive to eat

a varied menu and still get sufficient protein. I love cheese, but it's nearly up to $4 a pound. Beans & rice is a personal favorite, but they get boring. Tofu I can't really get excited about. I've probably eaten more nuts than two average people combined, gets tiresome.

Of course, being able to go to a fast food restaurant besides Taco Bell or Del Taco is nice, as well. For $3, you can get a triple cheeseburger at Wendy's, which has over 1000 calories, and eat nothing else for the rest of the day, and there's the protein taken care of. If only it didn't make me sick.

The more I read through this thread, the more I think it's psychological, anyway. Just reading some of these suggestions turns my stomach. I guess 12 years of not thinking about something as food makes it tough to suddenly turn on the mental spigot and get excited about eating it. I suppose it's a case of unrealistic expectations.

[prolesunited]

48. OK, another question

Do you cook? Have you tried new recipes? Explored vegetarian sites for ideas?

And while you may be able to get a cheeseburger at Wendy's for $3, it will cost you a lot more in the long run in terms of your health.

I didn't stop eating meat all at once, but did it slowly until one day I just decided it didn't need to be in my diet. But even then, any kind of fast food like that was enough to make me sick after eating it and clog my colon for the next day or two afterward.

If you're sure about meat, fast food would be the worst way to go. And I think you need to introduce it slowly. You're body just doesn't remember what to do with it.

[Julien Sorel]

51. I cook terribly, which is certainly one of the problems.

And learning to cook isn't high on the list of things I want to do, although maybe I should.

Fast food isn't bad; too much fast food is bad. 1200 calories is 1200 calories, as long as you're getting enough nutrients and fiber and the like. Still, now that I think about it, those triple cheeseburger things are a little bit much after so long not eating crap like that.

OK, I'm going to have to stop posting in this thread. Somehow it's made things worse.

[prolesunited]

56. I don't agree that 1,200 calories is 1,200 calories

A huge bowl of whole wheat pasta, tomato sauces, veggies and soy crumbles is a heck of a lot better than a product loaded with fat, especially trans fats, salt and chemicals and hormones.

On edit: You really don't even have to cook "cook." Just get some simple recipes, shop well and throw it altogether. Believe me, I don't spend that much time in the kitchen on a daily basis.

[DemExpat]

30. How about beans, they are cheap!

Eaten with grains and breads, some cheese, they are complete proteins.....and so many varieties!

Tasty too, for those who love them....:D

Chicken, turkey, lots of canned fish like tuna, salmon, sardines, nuts and seeds - these all give plenty of protein and taste and not so costly.

Perhaps all you need is to research some tasty and easy recipes to raise the enjoyment and nutritional level of your diet.

Good luck!

DemEx

[DancingBear]

50. Protein is easy

Snack bars (either low or high carb variety) have 30 grams each. Protein drinks (which taste VERY close to milk shakes, BTW, if made correctly) are very high in protein.

As for variety, there are vegetarian sausages, bacon strips, veggie burgers, a million and one vegetarian cookbooks (I'll give you great ones to get if you'd like) to pick from - trust me, variety is NOT a problem.

I, too, don't like tofu, so I merely substitute.

Don't buy into the "fast food" lie - that stuff can kill a moose. That said, I have been known to hit a Taco Bell...

[cmf]

17. It's a little hard to go back

Don't eat hamburger at first, especially from a restaurant. I've given up meat for short periods before, and I found that slow cooked beef is more gentle on the stomach. Try braising some brisket or a pot roast in a crock pot. Also, eat small portions obviously. It takes a while for your body to get used to meat again.

[Richard D]

21. My advice

Get super high quality beef. Natural, range fed is best. Use small amounts and cook with a lot of vegies, like in a stew. Curry powder makes it yummy. You don't need a lot of beef, and don't need to eat it frequently, so getting the best quality becomes cost effective. I was vegan for years, got so skinny it looked like I had just gotten out of a concentration camp and didn't have the strength to climb two flights of stairs. All that changed almost immediately when I added small amounts of animal protein back into my diet.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

22. If you have a butcher locally (as opposed to just a meat dept in a grocery

store), have them slice meat such as sirloin as thin as they can get it for you...aka about an eighth of an inch...the thinner it is, the less you'll have an issue with texture...you can grill it...bread it...or just pan fry it with a bit of butter and salt.

Also meat cuts such as a small shoulder roast (with a small O- bone)can be put in a pot with just some onion and boiled then simmered for a few hours til it falls apart..then you can strain the juice (Refrigerate that and it will become like gelatin ...therefore protein without the meat) and then add bbq sauce to the rest of the meat and shred it apart (thereby getting rid of the strong beef flavor in favor of a sweet flavor) It isn't hard to do and you can freeze what you don't eat in small portions for later on.


I can sympathise...I had stopped all meat for four years then had to go back to it as I kept getting opportunistic infections and my doc said it was because of deficiencies in my diet.

Also...if it's a protein issue...chicken will suffice and boneless skinless breasts (butterflied into thinner slices by the butcher) will help and be easier to get down...again...there are sauces at the meat counter you can pan fry these with.

[RebelOne]

23. Sorry to hear that.

I really hope you will continue to be a vegetarian.

[UpsideDownFlag]

28. has anyone seen the South Park episode "fun with veal"?

[Radical Activist]

32. I'll eat meat once every few weeks

If I go without for a while and eat a lot of meat in a day it does bad things to me. Its hard on your system. I don't think your problem is anything to be upset about. Just don't eat meat unless you have to for some kind of medical reason.

[AngryAmish]

33. Attaboy

Don't let this wimpy "I get sick to my stomach" excuse get you down. Just push right through it.

[Swamp Rat]

46. Ben there done that.

I just stick to fish/shellfish... just about anything from the ocean or a fresh stream.

How about some crawfish ettoufee or seafood gumbo?



6 months until crawfish season! :cry:

[curse10]

54. I've never liked it. About a year ago I accidently ate cow product

I threw up on the spot. When I did eat meat I never functioned very well. Always sick, sluggish. Blech!

And don't be upset. Maybe you shouldn't be eating beef. I don't know why you are going back to it, but there are many options out there. I truly believe that many of us, if not most of us, shouldn't even be eating meat. If it doesn't work for you don't force it. :pals:

[LoZoccolo]

59. Maybe it takes time, just like transitioning to vegetarian. n/t

[flvegan]

60. Hoping to close this out...

We all have bigger battles than with each other. I have a few last examples to give:

Cancers (of various and certain kinds): proven in many instances, to be more prevalent in meat eaters. sure, that's natural.

Cholesterol: Higher amongst meat-eaters. Animal products being the only real source of it. But hey, there's always some perscription to combat it.

Heart attacks/strokes: See above.

Mad Cow/Jacobs/BSE: Can't really get that too many other places;

Food poisoning: Won't even go there.

But, the USDA is protecting us, right? Our govt. would never hide, cover up, nor keep such important findings from us, right?

I believe a helluva lot of research has gone into veg folks living longer, healthier lives (in general). Live as you choose, I'm not trying to convince anyone.

Although, it seems like a sort of "revenge" or payback for doing something we weren't meant to do. The protein argument is total BS. Want protein? Get whey, and pay that price (read into the milk lies).

I do want to say this: this has been one of the most civil, informative conversations I've seen on this topic. Aside from the minimal, pathetic stabs at a lifestyle, the DUers involved have been really great.