Last dialog

[undergroundpanther]

>>>
>>>Why do you assume I am suffering because I disagree with
>>you?

I do not assume you are suffering because you disagree with me. Your suffering is obvious.

>>
>>It is clear to me from your energies that you are in great
>>pain.
>how do you "know" this?

You have an energy, a consciousness imprint, and a guide network and these all provide public information.

Also, I remind you that you initiated this contact and you asked a series of questions. by asking those questions of me, you have asked for the truth.

and besides, you admitted your suffering in your first message. I am really only repeating what you yourself have already admitted.

>>
>>>That's rude.It's a very arrogant assumption you make.
>>>You have not even attempted to tackle my questions about
>the
>>>nature of spirit.Why?
>>
>>I do not wish to tackle your questions. Your questions are
>an
>>intellectual coverup for the pain you have buried.
>
>Maybe you don't have answers than?

Perhaps I don't.

That is up to you to decide isn't it.

It doesn't matter to me.

I am not forcing any teachings on anyone.

>I ain't burying anything as far as I can tell.

As far as you can tell, you are not burying anything.

>
>Acually they are not all that intellectual. I have done alot
>of inner exploring. and I am not as ignorant as you seem to
>assume I am of life

I do not assume you are ignorant, merely badly injured, traumatized, and tortured.


>I suspect you are talking out of your butt on some level about
>me..and asserting it's true 'cause you say so. I am saying I
>am doubtful of dogma I don't appreciate it. And since you
>think you are not asserting things when you go saying I
>suffer when I don't think I'm suffering that I feel sorry for
>myself and all. That is an assertion you made about
>me,personally that you cannot make for me because you are not
>me,you haven't walked my life and know me like I know myself

as I have already noted, you admitted your suffering in the first email.


>something neither of us can label.You only have what
>information I have given you and what you may intuit. And
>intuitions can be off sometimes.It's the nature of intuition.

Yes, intuitions can be wrong. but I still see nothing in this conversation that would indicate I was wrong in my assessment of your pain.

>

>Could you tell that to the Iraqis held prisoner in Abu Gharib
>with a straight face like you did to me,could you say they
>just feel sorry for themselves?

I would never say that to a prisoner in Abu Gharib. However, if that prisoner was still dealing with the trauma decades later, then yes, I might say something like that especially if they had developed all sorts of negative thinking patterns.

And besides, it helps the healing process when you expose the wounds to a little light.


>were not coerced in prison and they deliberately chose to be
>humiliated, beaten, raped and brutalized by The United states

I would say they chose to incarnate in Iraq and knew the risks of that. I would also say that it was unfortunate that it had come to this and we pray for a speedy resolution to this conflict. However, at a spiritual level they understand the sacrifice and until the people of ALL NATIONS heal the internal pain which keeps them manifesting the dualities that lead to the conflict that gets the people tortured, I would thank them for their profound and loving sacrifice and remind them that a resolution to these conflicts is coming.

But yes, I agree with you, it is a tradedy that these things occur.

I also agree with you. On one level, yes, forced.

On another, spiritual choice.

For myself, I would rather focus on the level where choice is involved.

I would suggest that this is necessary in order to heal.

You can't heal if you believe you have no power to heal. and you can't believe you have power if you believe you have been forced into things.

e, in these letters and that wasn't always the case.You
>cinched your no sale by your"charming" *cough* personality.

as I said, I would have sent the book for free. No sale involved here.

>Why do I have to read propaganda first? Why can't you just
>say what you think about what I asked.A simple paragraph would
>do?

A simple paragraph would clearly not do. Your own ideas of the world are much too entrenched for a simple paragraph.

And in any case, the argument is nuanced and it would be impossible to capture the substance of it in a single paragraph

>I wanted to engage you,not be preached to and be told how I
>feel by a stranger..I do not owe you or anyone else my trust.

that's right. You do not.

But I remind you, you came to me.

>I was open with you, I shared,my panther dream,and some of my
>worldview.
>You wrote back to label me a light worker, and say all will be
>fine in me and the Earth if I just release my 'pent up'energy.

And i will repeat that here.

LET GO OF YOUR SUFFERING.

It is not you. It is not necessary.

You are a lightworker, an energy worker,

AND YOUR TIME IS NOW.

>
>Why do I have to agree with you to be heard? Is not standing
>up for my own experience the way to appear"ready" to you?

no.

>does one show they are ready? submission? praise you? Agree
>and nod like a bobble head? How?

talk less, listen more. Think about what I have to say.

>emotional issues. How can you say that? Where do you get this
>information? Why is it only authentic spiritual dialog if it
>agrees with your worldview?

This information is obvious from your way of thinking about the spiritual truths of this world. You have provide this information in writing so to speak in this short email exchange.


>But just to make sure I'm not in the wrong here I will post
>our "discussion" publically and ask others to tell me if I am
>wrong or crazy to ask what I asked you. I think others might
>find this 'discussion'useful in thier own spiritual
>explorations.

I think they might.

But you do not have my permission to post this discussion. This was private exchange from the start.


I replied:

>>It is clear to me from your energies that you are in great
>>>pain.
>>how do you "know" this?
>
>You have an energy, a consciousness imprint, and a guide
>network and these all provide public information.
>
>Also, I remind you that you initiated this contact and you
>asked a series of questions. by asking those questions of me,
>you have asked for the truth.

I don't think you speak ANY truth outta your mouth.
>
>and besides, you admitted your suffering in your first
>message. I am really only repeating what you yourself have

>already admitted. Why are you repeating it,you like watching suffering?
>
>>>
>>>>That's rude.It's a very arrogant assumption you make.
>>>>You have not even attempted to tackle my questions about
>>the
>>>>nature of spirit.Why?
>>>
>>>I do not wish to tackle your questions. Your questions are
>>an
>>>intellectual coverup for the pain you have buried.

An your torture is healing that's not covering up something..
>>
>>Maybe you don't have answers than?
>
>Perhaps I don't.

Ahhh Honesty...
Than I gotta ask why are you claiming my perception is invalid and calling it delusional if you don't have answers either?
>

>>Actually they are not all that intellectual. I have done alot
>>of inner exploring. and I am not as ignorant as you seem to
>>assume I am of life
>
>I do not assume you are ignorant, merely badly injured,
>traumatized, and tortured.
I was,it hurt.. So? People can change.And they change thier own way.
>
>
>as I have already noted, you admitted your suffering in the
>first email.
And you harped on it in EVERY email since and not said much else...It to you apparently it is more glaring than it is to me,it's like you can't see past it..BUt I can and you doubt it.
So,Can you say,projection?

>
>Yes, intuitions can be wrong.

Thank you for that bit of honesty.

but I still see nothing in this
>conversation that would indicate I was wrong in my assessment
>of your pain.

Well I dissagree.And I'm the one supposedly feeling it right?
You talk about it more that I do Why is that? Could it be YOU?
>
>>
>
>>Could you tell that to the Iraqis held prisoner in Abu
>Gharib
>>with a straight face like you did to me,could you say they
>>just feel sorry for themselves?
>
>I would never say that to a prisoner in Abu Gharib.

Thank you for that bit of humanity..


However,
>if that prisoner was still dealing with the trauma decades
>later, then yes, I might say something like that especially if
>they had developed all sorts of negative thinking patterns.

Oh Come on..
Are you saying..if we all just all think happy thoughts together we will float up on a pretty cloud of vibrations of loooove,..If we tell ourselves positive affirmations and pray pray pray and "smile" Those hurricaines won't form,wars will end,racists and homophobes will stop being scared ,corporations will stop exploiting,bullies will give up and change, and we'll all sing Kumbya!!*giggle*
People have been doing this positivity think yourself to sucess and peace since..well forever..and we haven't ascended yet,we still have war,hate,death,sickness death,the negitive principal .That archon ruler being seems unaware or oblivious to that positivity we send it for some reason.It just keeps on making life suck no matter how much we smile.
I guess you are saying you choose your positivity to have no lasting effects here than?
Hmm Assemblies of God also think positive thinking and tithing will turn thier teeth to gold,nevermind they can't pay rent God will bless.
And also they are scared of satan they act like it rules the world but deny torture hurts spirit like you do..


>
>And besides, it helps the healing process when you expose the
>wounds to a little light.
>
I told you that,before but You didn't read it.
I said Cancer heals when it is exposed to light.Light kills tumors.Tunmors are cells that reproduce and lose control without listening to the body and if cancer grows unchecked it kills the host,like the bad principal parasites off of us to feel power,it will keep on hurting unless we 'check' it with our wisdom..As for most wounds they can't do much with light alone.Nurturing ,gentleness,listening,medicine and surgery can cure the pain of wounds but the scars tell the story so you will not forget what it means,and deny what hurt you..
>
>>were not coerced in prison and they deliberately chose to be
>>humiliated, beaten, raped and brutalized by The United
>states
>
>I would say they chose to incarnate in Iraq and knew the risks
>of that.

Really.That's a BIG assumption you made.
In India they make the same rationalizations for the caste system.
Do you think the caste system is good? Or do you think it is opressive and unjust excuse for authoritarians to dominate people?

>I would also say that it was unfortunate that it had
>come to this and we pray for a speedy resolution to this
>conflict.

Me too. I want the hurt to stop,the death to stop,the lies to stop.
I want people to wake up.
*******************************************************
>However, at a spiritual level they understand the
>sacrifice and until the people of ALL NATIONS heal the
>internal pain which keeps them manifesting the dualities that
>lead to the conflict that gets the people tortured, I would
>thank them for their profound and loving sacrifice and remind
>them that a resolution to these conflicts is coming.
******************************************************************
>However, at a spiritual level they understand the
>sacrifice (of torture???)Getting tortured is profound and loving???
What??!!It's so easy to talk instead of walk that talk ain't it? I guess you understand your theory enough to apply it to those inferiors way over there,and exempt yourself from it.How convienent!! I bet it makes you feel less guilty about suffering to say they choose it and call it a loving sacrfice that heals conflicts....hmm you are in the USA,I guess you aren't serious enough about your claims to choose being an untouchable in the Caste system either..how fortunate your 'choice' saved your assfrom abuse so you could tell everyone else how thier distinctions cause all the problems.
>
>But yes, I agree with you, it is a tradedy that these things
>occur.

Oh but such a noble sacrfice to make the bad into good.
That idea sacrifice and torture is demanded by spirit as the ONLY WAY to resolve a conflict of duality, is offensive as shit to me.
If all is one than it DOES NOT NEED to torture itself to resolve it's ssameness..
>
>I also agree with you. On one level, yes, forced.

OK you can admit some things that happen to people can be forced.
Good!!!
>
>On another, spiritual choice.


Caste systems rely on the idea of "spiritual choices" made before you were here too you know.Be happy with your lot kinda stuff.It's easy to talk about choice if you are upper class,but to a poor person or worse a slave it somehow does not sound the same when you must live your words..This idea is called pre destination.A variation is original sin.Fundies are experts at it. There is a passage in the bible about vessels of wrath.Read it,because You are esposing that same theory. And that theory is obscene to me it is gross injustice,and it make your all one god into a capricious monster who creates things to torture them. It's bad.



>
>For myself, I would rather focus on the level where choice is
>involved.

OHonesty....You are limited by preference and don't want to see beyond that.Ok have your blinders on.
>You can't heal if you believe you have no power to heal. and
>you can't believe you have power if you believe you have been
>forced into things.

Umm I beg to differ. I do have power to heal.Being forced to be here does not mean I am doomed to be forced into doing crap that harms every day while I am stuck here.
It's called making the best out of bad a hostage situation while you are in it.Just because I am held hostage by a dense vibration that is not good or part of the good in me,that pains the good when it interacts with it ,does not mean being captive controls everything I do with my time here.The bad principal may rule this world but it does not rule me.(hence the anarchy in my concept of dualism)
>
>e, in these letters and that wasn't always the case.You
>>cinched your no sale by your"charming" *cough* personality.
>
>as I said, I would have sent the book for free. No sale
>involved here.

I know. I realize I don't want what you have anymore. I found out it's core is rotten. Thanks..but no thanks


>
>LET GO OF YOUR SUFFERING.

I have.You haven't apparently. You think torture heals.Talk about rationalizing.

>>Why do I have to agree with you to be heard? Is not standing
>>up for my own experience the way to appear"ready" to you?
>
>no.

Oh that's great..thanks,you are saying my spirit isn't corrupt enough to take your poision without retching . (good for me than;)

One thing about dualism is,it has gotten a bad rap and people react against it without thinking deeply about what it may mean in different contexts..The negative fundamentalist authoritarian dualist crusaded against heretics and censored their ideas and killed them for their differences from the church dogma.This is unhealthy dualism,the delusion kind.I don't believe like you do,in original sin,bloody sacrifice heals conflicts, or manifest pre-destiny for humans.To me good is good bad is bad.Some bad is chosen by us some is not.We have partial control.This is not an all or nothing.And torture is sick,useless .It is offensive to a good heart and loving spirit.Torture creates bad dualisms,it shatters the soul and makes it split off from itself and puts up amnesia barriers,It makes us go crazy...It creates us VS them blinders and makes existance feel dangerous enough to kill each other over and call our kin enemies.More torture will not resolve any conflicts.Abu Gharib is an example of the failure of torture to heal anything spiritual or material that is wrong in a culture.

>talk less, listen more. Think about what I have to say.

You have lost my respect. I don't want to "think about" how torture is good and warp my soul into a pretzel rationalizing that whopper of a lie.This is going online. People need to see the bad fruit wrapped up in positivity you call'truth'.I don't want anyone not forwarned about the character of the spirit you get your information from...

>>But just to make sure I'm not in the wrong here I will post
>>our "discussion" publicly and ask others to tell me if I
>am
>>wrong or crazy to ask what I asked you. I think others might
>>find this 'discussion'useful in their own spiritual
>>explorations.
>
>I think they might.

Ask me if I care if anyone thinks I am wrong or crazy.At least I don't claim torture of human beings heals spirit or God. I suspect,however they may think twice about your assertions about my emotional lability and become more wary of your claims once they see it for what it is.And they may not bother with your book rationalizing torture as good..
>
>But you do not have my permission to post this discussion.
>This was private exchange from the start.

Presuming..again..
I didn't need to ask your permission,
because you are not in charge of My email box,I am.
I am not ashamed of anything I would say to you here. I don't care if you go right now post this exchange as it is for anyone on the web to read. Go ahead do it. I am going to.

I will say what I say to you or anyone else the same way regardless whether it is spoken in private or not.(nothing said on line is EVER private anyway)I speak the same because I do not believe it is honest(for me) to cultivate two different"faces",One for public and one for private.Secrets in my experience can hurt innocent people if you do not learn to discern them and be responsible about what kinds of secrets merit respect of confidence and which ones do not.
This conversation is not a secret for me. Is it to you? why?
Is it because you are ashamed?

I write with NO regrets. People will ,despite whatever I say,or you say,think what they want to think of this whole thing regardless.It is their right to. I don't need to control their perceptions.

In this corrupted world life feeds upon the living to live.If that ain't a HUGE wicked unnecessary flaw in this existence I dunno what is.In the past I said I was abused,So what? You fixate on it more than I do Every post is all about my suffering,and release..This shows my suffering does not occupy me as much as you claim. I mentioned it in ONE post the first one .Every one of your replies since has harped on my suffering..Why?

Abuse in my past does not mean it controls me,today just because I appear over "emotional" or too intellectual..Just because I absolutely believe _all_torture is wrong ,unnessary,hurtful, it is sick and makes spirit sick,does not mean I am in pain right now.It means I strongly dissagree with your ideas about spirit,It causes a viseral revulsion These claims torture of human beings heals spiritual conflicts in god. I say what I perceive around me because it's what I perceive. I percieve you are really messed up in the heart..bad...*shiver*


Take care whatever you do,remember you are human and need love,just like everyone does.Love is the only way to heal life because it is different than torture methods the ruler of this world uses to fake healing,by opression,denial,rationlization,enabiling, forced conformity and the misrepresenting of of'choice'.
All torture and negation of the torture victims voice and minimization about how sick it all is..is just bad rotton toxic spiritual fruit.I never want to read your book now. You could plate it in gold and it would never be read by me.Your rationalizing vision of christo-fascist torture is enabler craptrap with a spiritual sounding interface. You are calling evil good. No wonder you want to talk about my suffering so much and insist I am in pain. You project your spiritual sickness on me and get off on it and you deny you do it.
This belief system of yours is not healthy or loving or good.
In fact it's offensive as shit to my spirit.