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TXlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-04 11:34 AM
Original message
Public school sex-ed classes
This is my take on it:

The purpose of public school sex-ed classes is purely a matter of public health, for the sake of kids whose parents are to uptight about sex to talk to them factually about reproduction and STDs.

The only thing that belongs in such sex ed classes is the biology and mechanics of human reproduction, and the various methods to prevent STDs (including both abstinance and barrier-method birth control).

The moment you start politicising it by discussing alternate sexual practices, you give the religious right the ammo it needs to try to remove such curriculum from the schools.

This editorial was insipred by an NPR story I heard a couple of weeks ago about how sex ed teachers in MA were rushing to include gay sex practices (in graphic detail) to sex ed classes. I see no value added there that isn't already covered with an in-depth discussion of the routes of infection for STDs and how to prevent them. Not only do I see no benefit, it only inflames conservatives.
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eyesroll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-04 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
1. I guess it depends on what the definition of "graphic detail" is.
It's nearly impossible to discuss the routes of STD infection without getting a little graphic -- for instance, you can't really define "unprotected anal sex" without talking about what goes where.

I'm not really sure one needs to get more graphic than that in descriptions of non-"alternate" (your words) practices either. Are they?
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-04 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
2. I am unsure about the exact story
Edited on Fri Sep-24-04 11:42 AM by SemiCharmedQuark
But it needs to be clear to kids that STDs are spread in ways other than just vaginal intercourse. You'd be surprised how many kids don't know that or think that. I am unsure if this discussion turned into something you consider inappropriate? :shrug:

On Edit: eyesroll put it better than I did, more directly.
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eyesroll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-04 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Very true -- there are kids out there having oral and anal sex
because they're "not ready to lose their virginity." :eyes:
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-04 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yeah, exactly
I loved in my Catholic (:eyes:) highschool how kids would say "Well I've done (long list of things that would shock the folks of Jerry Springer) but I haven't gone "all-the-way"

That's the results of teaching only abstinance and only vaginal intercourse. You have kids being idiots.
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TXlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-04 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. reply to you and eyesroll
I agree that discussion of sex is going to come into play when discussing routes of infection. However, the NPR article made it sound like they were really jumping on the gay sex angle more than they needed to.

I, for one, support the individual's right to do as they please, provided to do no harm to others. I am no prude. My concern is to make sure that public school sex ed classes remain in public schools and are not weakened by turning them into political or social engineering tools.
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interupt Donating Member (164 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-04 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
5. Just Curious...
What would you define as alternate sex practice and politics?

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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-04 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. Nobody wanted to be my lab partner
Although I knew that there was a lot of independent studies going on all around the building, and lots of people doing their homework . . .
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gbwarming Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-04 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
7. Here's the NPR story
It's pretty clear that the standrs are set district by district in MA. The religious right has been trying to remove all education from schools for decades.

http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=3915906

Massachusetts Schools Weigh Gay Topics
All Things Considered audio
Sept. 13, 2004

As school begins in Massachusetts, teachers and parents are debating what to teach about homosexuality now that gay marriage is legal. Some say teachers must talk more openly about gay relationships, while others say they'd rather quit than assign books such as Heather Has Two Mommies. NPR's Tovia Smith reports.
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TXlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Yes, that's the article
I find the teaching of tolerance admirable. But if i heard the piece correctly (admittedly, I was distracted with driving in heavy traffic at the time), it sounded like some teachers were really aggressively pushing descriptions of gay sex that went further than they needed to; descriptions that would have been offensive to many even if they were of heterosexual sex.

The blurb posted in your post above highlights the other extreme in reactions.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-24-04 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
10. And what about the ten percent of student who are homosexual?
Should the topic of homosexuality never be addressed in public education. Should the pretend it doesn't exist in order to keep from inflaming a few bigots? What if students have questions? What about anal sex among heterosexuals?
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TXlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-04 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. To the extent it is necessary to discuss it
in the context of transmission of STDs and prevention thereof, by all means. Beyond that, that is what the internet is for! :evilgrin:
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earthmuffin1970 Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-04 03:42 AM
Response to Original message
12. Joke sex ed
Last year, when my oldest was in 8th grade, the sex ed program came rolling through. My daughter has known about where babies come from since she was 3 or so, and I have never been shy about telling any of my girls the facts of life.

The joke of this was, they gave a Hershey kiss to all the kids in the class, and told them that if they ate it right away, they would not get the full size candy bar in tomorrows lesson. But, if they "delayed gratifiaction", they would get the big payoff of a big Hershey bar. I can not tell you how horrified and amused I was at the same time! Even my then 13 year old thought it was ridiculous.
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wickerwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-04 04:55 AM
Response to Original message
13. What are "gay sex practices"?
Trust me, nothing goes on in gay partnerships that (to an objective eye) is any different from what happens in straight partnerships. And for really twisted nausea inducing shit, I think the straight folks take the prize.

There's no such thing as "straight" and "gay" sex practices- just different forms of giving and recieving pleasure. If we're talking about the consequences of sex, why should the focus be 100% on the negative? That just creates another generation of up-tight parents who can't talk about sex like adults.

And this "ick! Don't talk about gay sex!" only serves to perpetuate homophobia. We fear the unknown, afer all...
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Dzimbowicz Donating Member (911 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-04 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
14. I had to teach a sex-ed class my first year as a teacher...
Edited on Sat Sep-25-04 08:02 AM by Dzimbowicz
and in an area which has been a fundie stronghold for years. However, with the economic migration to this region of the country by people from all over the US, and the world, luckily for me, the fundies were not as prevalent (in the realm of sex-ed) as I had expected. The classes were segregated by gender and, I as a male, got to teach the boys. In the beginning, they tried to "put me on the spot" with stupid questions such as "can a girl get pregnant when she swallows?" My response was "no, but she can get an STD." When they realized that they were not going to embarrass me or stun me (and that I would be rather blunt in response to such antics), they slacked off with the silliness. Then I asked the school administration, and gained, permission to show medical photos of STDs (only photos of males were allowed in my class) and what they did to someone physically. The reason for this was that once upon a time in the 70s I was a Marine and I remembered this tactic having been used by the USMC for us to "keep our pants on" while in port on liberty. Graphic photos of what gonorrhea, herpes, warts, etc. do to someone drove the point home to these boys (to me and to many of my fellow jugheads as well). Then I told them how some diseases such as AIDS, HIV and syphilis do not display outward symptoms as soon as other STDs (I also explained how deadly these diseases were). The boys seemed to understand what I was trying to teach them, although I knew many of them were still going to be sexually active nonetheless.

On the other side, the girls in my class were segregated into another class which was taught by a teacher who was the wife of a fundie minister. I was told that she took the sex-ed textbook, gave it to the girls and then hid behind her desk, refusing to discuss any of the issues with the girls. After word of my methods reached the others and, as a matter of fact, it spread like wildfire; you all remember how fast such things can spread in a high school, right? The girls told me how their teacher was failing to teach them anything except for "don't do IT!" They asked me for information. I had no option but to comply with my school district's policies concerning such topics, so I told them to discuss the issues with their parents and then do some research for themselves on the web. Afterward, many of them told me that they had done so and had learned from their own efforts.

In conclusion, I told both the boys and the girls that "they should always think in life because when one stops thinking, life bites you on the ass and it hurts (BTW, it's a dog-eat-dog world out there and Alpo makes the underwear)! The same goes for sex, think and protect yourself; I know you are all human, curious and well... Think, protect yourself and realize that every action has its consequences."

Surprisingly, I did not receive one complaint from any parents or school administrators. However, I was never asked to teach sex-ed again. I hope, and I think, I had an impact on these young people and made a difference in their lives.

PS. I was not allowed to discuss abortion or alternative life styles. Since I need(ed) this job, I complied.
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bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-04 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
15. My 4 year old daughter was reprimanded for using anatomical terms
in preschool.

I have always taught my kids the proper name for their parts...so when my daughter used the word vagina in school due to a minor accident involving a see saw she got in trouble and was told not to use that "word" anymore...

People are just so hung up...
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-04 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
16. Had mine in 5th grade, 1982...
They said nothing of STDs.

Just the proper names for "wiener" and "boobies" and "spoo" and where things officially go. But they did have a snippet of homosexuality that covered only one aspect of male-male only sex (apparently they didn't think that male-male sex involved anything else and they didn't believe lesbianism was real either. :eyes: )
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jmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-04 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
17. That sounds like my high school sex ed class.
Edited on Sat Sep-25-04 08:42 AM by jmm
We already knew where babies came from so they gave us some lectures and tests on different STDs and forms of birth control. Oh then there were the videos. I graduated in 1998 but we once watched a projection made in 1962 about how the lives of a couple of teens in the mid-west were ruined when she got pregnant and he was forced to marry her.

My school had a 20% pregnancy rate in was in a city with the highest percentage of HIV positive people in the US so I don't think it was all that successful.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-04 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
18. yup let the fags die....
Edited on Sun Sep-26-04 07:42 AM by lionesspriyanka
its not their sex is high-risk sex or anything.

(that was in sarcasm for those who do not know me)
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