A Moral Question about Evil from Star Wars Ep. 6 "Return of the Jedi"

[Yavin4]

Recall that in the movie, a new death star was under construction. Now, that meant that there were contractors, plumbers, electricians, carpenters, etc. that were working on it. During this time, this was probably a good job to get during this time, but they were working for evil. Thus, when the death star was destroyed, these contractors perished as well.

Now, the question that I have is, if you work for evil does that make you evil as well? Even if this is the best job that you could get? Is the giy installing the toilets on the death star just as bad as the emperor?


This is a question that was brilliantly raised in the movie, "Clerks".

[tokenlib]

1. So issues are not always so clear and simple...

So much for my mindless-entertainment!

[VelmaD]

2. It gets more complicated than that...

when you read some of the books. A lot of the work on the Death Star was accomplished by slave labor.

[Joylaughter]

3. Slave labor

My guess is that the human labor used to build the Death Star II was exploited. They might have been mind washed zombies who were merely blindly patriotic. Could they have earned a better wage as part of the resistance? Or were their fates controlled by the evil overlords. Are beasts of burdon evil for serving their masters' desires? No. It is certainly better, IMHO, to be the fool instead of the perp.

[Rabrrrrrr]

4. And, if you destory something evil but have to kill millions of innocents

in the process, is that act evil?

I remember in the books Luke being plagued with the thought that while he stopped the death star from destroyuing planets and billions of people, he still killed the million or so peeople who were on the death star.

Kind of like, is it okay to nuke Hiroshima to get Japan to surrender and save millions of lives? Or would it have been okay to drop an abomb in Berlin just to kill Hitler?

These are important ethical questions, with no easy answers.

As to some of the questions: if the guy installing the toilet was doing so because he believed this toilet installation was an important step in the fight against the rebel scum and the furtherance of the Emperor's agenda, then yes, he's just as evil as the stormtroopers or the others. (though remember the stormtroopers weer all clones, designed to behave, so in many ways, not capable of either good or evil; they have no free will and simply follow orders, like a machine).

But if the guy installing toilets is a slave, or perhaps someone who needed money, or didn't have any idea what the structure he was working on, then he's likely an innocent.

[Lisa]

5. this point also was raised by another SF movie ...

After searching IMDB, I believe it was "Genesis II" -- where the hero destroys the villain's base, and is shocked when he's rebuked by the good guys for killing the innocent custodial staff. (The good guys call themselves "PAX" for a reason!) That film made a big impression on me, and to this day I can't look at a scene showing the army of Imperial stormtroopers, orcs, etc. all lined up without wondering about all those individual characters and whether they think they're doing the right thing. (And the troops arranged behind Bush when he's making a speech, of course.) Later I met many ex-military people, and realized that Roddenberry had a good point.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070101/plotsummary

[zbdent]

8. Crap, Clinton was raked over the coals for killing a cleaning lady

while trying to take out Osama bin Laden.

When the "aspirin factory" was destroyed, Repukes were screaming about how Clinton didn't care for the working class in the Middle East.

No joke.

[Deja Q]

6. Well, if it weren't for the human condition, I'd say they were evil too.

Unfortunately, many people will capitulate if forced to work under duress, or threat of death.

Those in power know that too.

[DerekG]

7. Well, we're living on the Death Star, folks...

Our tax money, yours and mine, is used to fund the manufacturing of bombs that scorch the children. Yeah, we're all culpable.

BTW, I was hoping that your moral question pertained to Vader's "redemption", which never sat well with me. The guy was a genocidal monster--a cross between Napoleon and the Marquis de Sade.

But then, I never liked Episode VI.

[baldguy]

14. That brings up another view to light...

Were the attacks on 9-11 justified? After all, the Islamic fundamentalists have the view that THEY are being subjugated by Western civilization in general and by the US in particular.

Lets ignore the fact that Osmam was conveniently NOT on any of the high-jacked airlines and that his financial benifactors in Saudi Arabia have always done a great deal of business with us infidels.

[zbdent]

9. Actually, the new Death Star was complete - the "under construction"

was a ruse.

Remember, the new and improved Death Star was fully functional, despite looking partially completed.

[Rabrrrrrr]

11. No, it wasn't complete - it was fully functional

The main weapon on it worked, but the Death Star itself was still not finished and was indeed still under construction.

A minor point, but important.

[NashVegas]

10. "shoveling coal for satan"

Is the term that would apply.

If you look at a tarot deck, the Devil card is usually a representation of some sort of enslavement.

[skygazer]

12. Brings to mind the Star Trek II and III question

"Do the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few?"

Answer being, I don't know. Sometimes I guess they do. Sometimes they don't. In this case, the fact that the Death Star's destruction most assuredly saved the lives of billions would tend to outweigh the unfortunate loss of the innocent people who were working there.

Of course, if they were there by choice, they share some of the guilt. If they were there because they were slave laborers, they really don't.

Hard choices. This is why we need a leader who understands complexity. (thought I'd get a kick for Kerry in there)

[Yavin4]

13. If Indeed They Were Slaves Instead of Laborers, Then Killing Them

would be immoral. Would it not? Shouldn't the resistance try to free the slaves before they were killed? Or, is killing innocent lives a necessary step towards killing evil?