Yet another moral question about Episode VI...Vader's redemption

[DerekG]

In lieu of Yavin4's thread, I have to express my own qualms with the lacklucker finale to the Star Wars films (and remember, this has become a part of our modern mythology, so it is worth discussing. If you think this is too geeky--and it probably is--than don't post).

The redemption of Darth Vader has always rubbed me the wrong way--and not simply because it neuters one of the great villains of cinema. I commend Lucas for being a bit ambitious, that is, not ending his film with the typical protagonist vs. antagonist confrontation. But I think Vader's salvation is rather shallow, and comes out of left field.

In the first film, Vader was an evil wizard, who clearly harbored an interest in metaphysics ("I find your lack of faith disturbing" is classic). In the second film, Vader evolves into a character out of opera--a Cronus figure, who seeks to devour his son as his own power fades. The identity-revealing scene is crucial--we see that Vader sincerely seeks to "destroy the Emperor" and "rule the galaxy together as father and son." He acknowledges that he served evil, but still thinks he can save the universe through force (we're tapping into Tolkien, here).

But in Episode VI, Vader's machinations against Palpatine are jettisoned; he is a total slave to his master. And we find that this genocidal monster, who tortured both his children--is really a nice guy trying to get out. And of course, he does, and we're supposed to get weepy eyed when we see him in astral form.

It just doesn't work. Whereas in Lord of the Rings, the love between Frodo and Sam brings down the armies of Mordor, Vader's turn has little to do with the Death Star's destruction. He saved his son, but the act is confined to the personal level. I don't buy it.

[derby378]

1. Vader vs. LOTR

Haven't seen the previous thread, but I'll take a shot...

Ever since Vader watched Luke leap to what both probably figured would be Luke's end, I saw a change in Vader in both Empire and Jedi. He was more subdued, less impulsive. At the end of Empire, the Millenium Falcon escaped with Luke, and Admiral Piett was bracing for the invisible fingers to close off his windpipe forever because of it. Instead, Vader just stared into space for a moment, then retreated to his private chamber, lost in who knows what thoughts.

At the beginning of Jedi, Vader was harassing the commander and chief architect of the new Death Star for falling behind schedule. When the commander pleaded for more manpower, explaining that "the Emperor demands the impossible," Vader motivates the man with a mighty big stick - Palpatine himself is coming to personally supervise the project's on-time completion. After being ensured by the commander that the crew's efforts will be doubled, Vader - who, in the first film, enjoyed a more "hands-on" approach to interrogation, leaves the Death Star commander without so much as a warning pinch: "The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am."

To me, all this suggests the conflict that Luke claimed he sensed in Vader as the film progressed. Vader, who has fallen increasingly under the spell of the Dark Side since Attack of the Clones, now finds himself having what Yoda thought was impossible for a true Sith - a possible change of heart.

As for LOTR, it was the love between Frodo and Sam that brought the ring to Mount Doom, but it was the weakening of Frodo and the blind obsession of Gollum that ultimately doomed the One Ring to destruction in the furnaces of Mordor. I understood that Tolkien meant this as an analogy of Augstine's concept of original sin, but I could be mistaken here - my brother's the Tolkien scholar, not I.

[RevCheesehead]

2. Are you ready for an even bigger leap (of faith?)

Vader's redemption comes in seeing the work of his son. It's one thing to follow your own course, but its another to watch your child follow the same path, yet make another, in fact, a better choice.

To me, this was a powerful moment. Faced with either the destruction of the emperor or killing his son, Vader could not choose. Instead, he chose to save his son. By choosing good over evil, and love over hate, he was redeemed.

There are some who are willing to claim that this change of heart reflects God's love for humanity... All along, we think it is LUKE who will bring salvation. In a funky sort of way, Vader himself becomes the Christ-figure, sacrificing himself for his son (and for the sake of all).


(I love this stuff - can you tell?)