Kucinich v. Nader

[Radical Activist]

Poll question: Kucinich v. Nader

Which ultra-left winger do you prefer?

[mairceridwen]

1. i am way annoyed

with nader these days.

is kucinich really "ultra" left wing?

Besides, kucinich has such GREAT hair

[kick-ass-bob]

2. ultra left wing:

only of the right of center democrats...

[Radical Activist]

5. both are about the same on the issues

given the spectrum in the US I would say Dennis is ultra-left wing. In Canada he would probably be center-left. There are only a small number like him in Congress.

[mairceridwen]

9. i see it that way

too

[La Lioness Priyanka]

3. ultra left winger is a weird conservative phrase

but dennis kucinich is a wonderful person with solid social policies.

[mairceridwen]

6. i say embrace it

i don't see any real "ultra" left wingers anywhere on the mainstream political scene

of course, I am in grad school and even though I stay in touch with the real world, my head is generally stuck in the asshole of the academic monster where "left wing" is its own different world

[Radical Activist]

11. I do

People should stop being afraid of saying what they are.

[bobthedrummer]

14. I've with ya on this-I've got yer back, lionesspriyanka,

plus I voted for DK.
O8)

[lightbulb]

4. Kucinich knows how to be effective

Nader only knows how to be a sensation. They both have good ideas, but only Kucinich makes the rubber meet the road.

[Gothic Sponge]

7. I voted for Kucinich.

:thumbsup:

[DenverDem]

8. "ultra left wing" is an ultra wrong wing buzz phrase.

Interesting you would use that phrase while having a Che G avatar.

Verrrry interesting.

[Radical Activist]

10. Yeah, interesting

that you would just use the word interesting rather than making an actually interesting point.

Would far-left wing have been better? Ultra-left and ultra-right are standard terms used to describe the political spectrum. I would not take being called ultra-left offensively. Would you?

[DenverDem]

15. OK, how about this. nadir is a ultra wrong wing functionary.

He is totally sold out and a tool of the corporate globalists he professes to oppose.

Kucinich has a legitimate portfolio of sustainable economic, social and environmental policies that are based on reason and a clear vision on the realities of the near future.

If facing the realities of economy, energy policy and environment in a finite biosphere are "ultra-left" then I guess that's what I am. However, the term "ultra-left" as used in the current popular political lexicon is a pejorative akin to "tinfoilhatism".

So why are you smearing Kucinich with a pejorative term?

[mairceridwen]

17. um...

If you think "ultra-left" is derogatory then you are just buying into the current popular political lexicon, which is largely right wing in its orientation

he's not being pejorative. you are.

someone with che there, is obviously proud to be and use ultra left as a title and is not "smearing" Kuchinich

For most of the mainstream, Kuchinich and Nader are as left as you get...but us calling them that, doesn't mean we are using the term in a derogatory fashion as well

[DenverDem]

18. "Ultra-left" characterization marginalizes you and neutralizes

any point you would want to make with anyone except your "ultra left" peers.

Call yourself "progressive" and make your point compellingly, then you are doing something. Call yourself "ultra-left" if it makes you feel better, but don't expect to have any cultural impact.

As newt gengrich proved, words count, so you should be selective about what you use.

[mairceridwen]

19. words count

but I will not let "them" tell me what "ultra left" means.

If I make the point as a progressive, it will be taken and misrepresented.

so what difference does it make? We can't even call ourselves liberal without being smeared and misquoted.

Wake the fuck up! Since when does making a compelling point have any "cultural impact" these days?

so yeah, words matter. and we should take them back. make them OURS again. ALL of them: left, progressive, radical, and so forth.

[Radical Activist]

20. I thought I was speaking to Democratic peers here

not to conservatives.

[mairceridwen]

22. you have to be suspicious

of anyone who uses Newt Gingrich to support their argument.

that "words count" has been proved countlessly by librals and leftists alike so why resort to that pasty paunchy stupidfacedumbhead

[DenverDem]

25. You have to be suspicious of anyone who characterizes Democrats as

"ultra left".

Why are you guys intent on marginalizing Democrats and helping busholini inc retain power?

If "progressives" understand that words count, why are you using words that count as pajoratives?

You saying "ultra left" is not pejorative doesn't mean shit to swing voters that we need to persuade to VOTE DEMOCRATIC. They think it is pejorative, so until 11/3, this kind of semantic silliness is completely counterproductive to the task at hand, which is to take the only incremental progessive step available, which is to ELECT JOHN KERRY.

[mairceridwen]

27. I am not calling

dems ultra left

and I don't when I talk to people who are moderate or undecided...in fact, I do the opposite

in any case, this is a different audience. at 1000+ posts, I think you'd have figured that out by now

[DenverDem]

23. Democrats are not "ultra left", Castro is "ultra left"

Characterizing Democrats as "ultra left" is helping busholini be selected again.

[mairceridwen]

24. so all let's censor ourselves

I guess even dems are sheeple too

no one is characterizing dems as ultra-left only pointing out that one is more left than the rest. that I call myself ultra-left says nothing about democrats because am not registered as one, and also because, I know how to discuss the differences between various liberals and know that they are not all like me.

even though they should be

again, putting castro up as the model for ultra left...more freeper speak. maybe you understand that is how people think. and they do think like that.

but I'd like to think that the level of comprehension regarding the diversity of the liberal/left is a little higher here at DU

i am sorry that you think so little of us

[DenverDem]

26. So let's all help busholini keep power

because we are so undisciplined and unrealistic that we can't stay on message until the freaking election.

[mairceridwen]

28. yes

if I can't stay on topic on a message board I must not be able to think clearly and logically in the real world.

if I bother to talk nuances with other liberals, I am clearly not able to convince a moderate undecided why she/he should vote kerry

[Radical Activist]

29. Look, I worked for Kucinich in the primary so

I will call him whatever the fuck I want. If you think ultra-left is an insult then I would suggest that is your own personal hang up. I like Kucinich specifically because he is very liberal.

We're not canvassing swing voters in Ohio here. We're pissing time away in the DU lounge. Keep things in perspective.

[Trish]

38. well said (n/t)

[Radical Activist]

21. So "ultra-left wing" is pejorative but

its ok to throw a string of insults at Nader who has done a great deal over the years to advance progressive issues. I don't need to ask why you're smearing Nader, but frankly I haven't insulted either Nader or Kucinich in this thread.

[Darranar]

42. So should "liberal" be purged from our words, too...

because it's been turned into an insult by a variety of right-wing commentators?

Why should we apply their connotations to words?

I, for one, would take "ultra-left winger" as a compliment, especially seeing as how they seem to be the only people advocating a real change to a disgusting status quo.

[mairceridwen]

45. word.

hellyeah!

[mairceridwen]

16. call me

ultra left progressive revolutionary radical jedi goddess freak

have you seen the motorcycle diaries yet? I think this weekend for me

[WillyT]

12. Nader Has Totally Fucked Himself (and possibly the country) With Me !!!

Nader = NEVER!!!

There is nothing he can do or say, that will ever garner him MY VOTE!!!

:kick:

[redqueen]

13. Kucinich, of course!

:loveya:

[redqueen]

30. Why the flame fest on a Kucinich thread?

WHY?

:cry:

[Radical Activist]

32. because its a Nader thread too?

I don't think a Nader thread on DU is possible without someone making a string of insults.

But you're right, Dennis would not be happy with the flames.

[mairceridwen]

33. why not?

why is everyone so afraid of dissent? of a little spirited discussion.

this is DU. and this about one DUer obviously misunderestimating other DUers and characterbating them as a threat to Kerry when we are not.

I'm just trying to clarify a point.

Yes, it's important to be pragmatic. But not stupid.

[redqueen]

35. I'm not faulting anyone

it's just sad.

It's not new or unusual though... I started on this board as a Kucinich supporter during the primaries... I've been in my share of flamefests... I just had hoped it would stop after the primaries.

Besides, Nader sucks and Kucinich doesn't... what's to argue about. ;)

[no name no slogan]

39. Kucinich-- that's a no-brainer

I still respect Ralph, but he's getting on my nerves lately.

Besides, Kooch is a uniter, not a divider, and practices what he preaches.

I've been with Dennis since last August, I stood with him all through the primaries, and I'm standing with him now. Because Dennis stands for US.

:hi: Redqueen!!!

[redqueen]

44. That's right, it's been a long haul

I met some of the most wonderful people working for his campaign. 'course I met some morans too... one started collecting signatures for Nader to be on the TX ballot immediately after Kucinich backed Kerry... :eyes:

:hi: NNNS!

[no name no slogan]

53. Yeah, I know what you mean

We had a couple/few do that too, but that's their deal, I guess. But I can't fault them for their choices, because I'm sure their reasons for supporting Nader are just as good as mine for supporting Kerry.

The funniest thing that's come out of it for me is the buttons that a DK supporter in his 70s recently had made. They say "Vote Kerry/Edwards -- They Suck Less!". This sums up the feeling of many of us who've had a hard time getting behind Kerry.

Either way, Kerry's a decent candidate, and definately better than anybody else in the race. :D

[donheld]

31. Dennis

Ralph is too full of himself

[nickgutierrez]

34. No comparison.

I voted for Dennis. Ralph sold out.

[JohnKleeb]

36. Kucinich, god I didnt even have ot think

[Trish]

37. Worked for Kucinich......

During the primaries.....he's the best congressman with a D after his name. Nader, on the other hand, is a megalomaniac....
No question....Kucinich

[Darranar]

40. Kucinich. n/t

[NoPasaran]

41. I don't think either of them is an "ultra-left"

Bob Avakian---there's your ultra-left.

Be that as it may, I prefer Dennis to St. Ralph.

[sonicx]

43. This poll's results are a nobrainer

might as well ask who you prefer between Bush and Kerry.

[GlenIL]

46. I would vote for Dennis Kuchinich

Never trust any politician who allows anti gay right wing nutjob groups to collect signatures for them.

[Rooktoven]

47. Too easy.

Good democrat versus selfish asshole.

[bigwillq]

48. K-Diddy

Fo' sure.

[VOX]

49. Kooch in a heartbeat, all the way, no second thought, no doubts...

no looking back, absolutely, without reservation.

DK is a truly fine man -- he understands the big picture, and he knows what's best for the greater good.

[Radical Activist]

54. Are you sure?

I think you're right.

[NNadir]

50. How does Nader qualify as "left wing?" The guy's a Republican fraud.

[eridani]

51. Kucinich, obviously.

In my alternate reality, he will win on 11/2/

http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~hsp/32_Kucinich.html

“You see, since we knew the corporations and major media they own would never change, we decided to just take the media out of the loop by changing the electoral process itself.” McCain continued. “We thought the first thing to do would be to simply take the candidates names off the ballot.”

Feingold kindly elaborated. “Under our system, each candidate is given a “code name”, and then described by a detailed but human readable summary of their positions on various issues. In an attempt to give as little reference to the candidates as possible, code names this year were randomly assigned from an archive of rock bands, which this year included the likes of American rock gods, “Aerosmith”, alternative rock mainstays, “Nine Inch Nails”, and Montreal’s own, “Godspeed You Black Emperor!”.”

“We wanted to make sure that voters had the opportunity to vote largely based on the issues that will directly affect their lives,” said McCain. “This was, of course, impossible under the previous system where the media encouraged a pick-the-winner/horse race mentality, a climate where people voted based on name recognition and the hyped up notion of electability, and the issues were made to seem irrelevant. With our new system, voters did have a little trouble getting used to things, for example, not having a fucking clue who anyone’s name was, but in the end, people seemed to do OK, especially because we got rid of that whole stupid primary election process where Americans were given the fallacious illusion of choice between alternatives.”

[Radical Activist]

52. That article is hillarious

I saw it during the primary and loved it. Thanks for reminding me.

[robbedvoter]

55. The one who is not a GOP tool - DK