I'm on the fence again about stuff like 'b***h' 'throws like a girl', etc.

[redqueen]

*sigh*

A while back, I was militant. I was of the mind that if you used these terms, that others may be impressed either that it was okay to treat females as less worthy -- or that others in the group may start to believe that they are less worthy. Then I changed my mind, and thought that if the terms were used in a humorous way, that it was okay, because it was only joking, after all.

However, now I think I'm switching back to my former attitude, mostly due to a conversation I had with my marriage counselor this weekend. (He's a clinical psychologist, in case you're wondering). His next appt had cancelled, so we spent a while chatting. I brought up the subject, interested to hear his thoughts on the effects of these types of derogatory comments, even when used in jest.

His take? That the use of these types of terms reinforce the beliefs in those who do seriously believe that any particular group (I'm not limiting this to just women, you know) is less worthy; and additionally, that any depressed person belonging to such a group might have their lack of self-worth validated when they hear such things. Pretty much my original stance, I noticed.

So... I guess I'm not on the fence after all. I'm now firmly back in the anti-lets-joke-about-girlie-stuff camp.

Happy Monday, all!

:hi:

[Beware the Beast Man]

1. Bitchin!

:evilgrin:

[sniffa]

2. pfft! you post Like a girL

:P

[mark414]

3. why are women so indecisive?

:evilgrin:

[Bouncy Ball]

4. You're such a .....

nevermind!

;-)

[redqueen]

5. Oh for cryin out...!

I meant to post this in GD... hehe... nice comments, y'all. :)

[matcom]

6. chicks rule

[Wapsie B]

7. I must confess

about saying he throws like a girl a time or two, but not the b word. That term is used only behind bedroom doors if both parties are comfortable with it.


Happy Monday!

:hi:

[miss_kitty]

8. well, it's your prerogative to chage your mind

:hi:

[asthmaticeog]

11. Nope, sorry, that's a sign of weakness.

:silly:

[WI_DEM]

9. this weekend I'm at a bar and go into the rest room and a guy is

talking to his girlfriend on his cell phone, he says, "don't worry I'm not going to drink and drive." He hangs up, and says to me as he is walking out "bitches!!" as if it is a everyday common thing to call your girl friend a bitch and I would agree with him.

[CornField]

10. My daughter has this poster on her wall:

I fight like a girl who refuses to be a victim.

I fight like a girl who is tired of being ignored and humored and beaten and raped.

I fight like a girl who's sick of not being taken seriously.

I fight like a girl who's been pushed too far.

I fight like a girl who offers and demands respect.

I fight like a girl who has a lifetime of anger and strength and pride pent up in her girly body.

I fight like a girl who doesn't believe in fear and submission.

I fight like a girl who knows that this body and this mind are mine.

I fight like a girl who knows that you only have as much power as I grant you.

I fight like a girl who will never allow you to take more than I offer.

I fight like a girl who fights back.

So next time you think you can distract yourself from your insecurities by victimizing a girl, think again.

She may be me and I fight like a girl.

[MuseRider]

12. I really like that.

Really really like that poster.

[redqueen]

13. That's fantastic!

If you can find out where she got it, I'd like a copy of that for my daughters... thanks. :)

[tigereye]

62. that's excellent!

[Joe Chi Minh]

110. .. and they don't take prisoners!

Though, actually, I think you can be too sensitive about that. Vive la difference!

There are so many areas woman can and do take the rise out of us about, among themselves - and justifiably so, ironically. But do we get upset about it? Where there's no sense, there's no feeling!

What I do deplore is the use of the term, "boobs" for "charlies", "jugs" or whatever, because of its association with foolishnes, stupidity. And there is something of that too, in the expression, "big girl's blouse", too. I know its done innocently enough, but I believe it's one of a number of similar expressions that are prone to dissuade some impressionable young women with low self-esteem from breast-feeding.

No, it's not that I want women to breastfeed in public. (I find it embarrassingly erotic, as I expect a lot of men do). But it is the healthy way God instituted for mothers to feed their sprogs, if they are physically able.

[hfojvt]

14. who said anything about "less worthy"?

Is it supposed to be derogatory if you mention the fact that lots of girls are not very good a throwing baseballs or footballs. That only makes them "less worthy" if you consider athletic skills to be the sine qua non of human worth. When actually the measurement of human worth is determined by the ability to use the phrase "sine qua non" in a sentence.

[redqueen]

15. 'Throws like a girl' is merely one example of the ways language is used

to propogate the idea that women are less-than...

I had hoped people wouldn't get hung up on that particular example... I should have given more.

There are countless examples, really.

[Left Is Write]

22. It was just an example, but...

I'd say there are probably a lot of women who can throw baseballs and footballs better than some men can. Gender shouldn't be used as an indicator of athletic prowess. If, when you say, "He throws like a girl", you mean to say "He doesn't throw very well", then just say, "He doesn't throw very well."

[RedCloud]

41. Male body designed differently!

Sorry you folks are forgetting your physical anthropology! Check the pelvis region. You may note the angles are different. Hence things that require impetus from the legs, such as throwing a ball, striding into a ball, do produce different results.

This brings up a sad moment when my guys and some women who prefer women and yet we were all buddies went out for a softball game. I asked the third base person if she could handle a screaming meanie because she was positioned right where I hit 'em down the line. So assured me repeatedly that she would snag the sharply hit liner.

But alas, it hit her because it got out there in the blink of an eye. In the face. Oh the pain. It could be she just never got one hit that hard.

We were buddies before and after.

Since, this is the lounge!!! She didn't need to work because some guy from Montana got a huge inheritance and felt guilty about it. He would fly into Missouri by plane (not flapping his arms!). She would tie him up and knock him around for pay.

[redqueen]

43. It's still demeaning, RedCloud.

How many times do you hear people say to a woman in martial arts, 'you kick like a boy!'? Women have more lower-body strength, but this difference is not used to demean women... why?

[tigereye]

72. actually

I do tai chi and smaller men and women can easily neutralize larger opponents of either sex, since skill is not based on strength and power but awareness of how the body moves.

Yeah, RQ, I agree with you. I can take some jokes ( you have to around here), but the derogatory/sexist language gets really old. And it is demeaning.

[redqueen]

77. I was hoping to have your input, tigereye.

Thank you for chiming in. :)

I agree you have to be able to take jokes, esp. around this forum... but I still hope for the day when all see the damaging effects this kind of joking can and does have. :hug:

[tigereye]

83. fortunately

I think, and hope, most of the folks here would not use that type of language in their real lives, as opposed to here.

[redqueen]

90. *sigh*

I hope you're right... I wish you were... but honestly? I think many, possibly even here, really do think that it's okay if you're only joking.

[tigereye]

93. I know that I don't hear the b word in my house

and most of my men friends know they had better not say it around me. Wait, soon there will be a b word apologist on the horizon. :silly:

[hfojvt]

98. the phrase is used to demean women?

It is used to insult a man, since it is commonly understood that for a boy to be like a girl is a step down. On the other hand, are not girls sometimes teased/insulted for being too boyish, in figure, if not in action. Thus, it is a step up on the insult/teasing plane to question someone's sexual identity.
It is not just a question of saying "he throws very poorly". It is saying that "he throws so bad that we question his gender". There really is no better way to make a quick insult, even if it is in jest.
I am quite sure that athletic women are frequently insulted as being "too masculine". Again I question the entire value system of basing worth on prowess at "boy's games" even if those games are politcal or financial. The question would be the value we place on athletics, aggression, competitiveness, selfishness, ruthlessness, etc.
Should Les Nessman care more about baseball than he does about the violin? Should society place a high value on athletic prowess?

[redqueen]

100. Yes.

It supports and fosters the belief that females can't do things as well as males. While the physical reality that males posess in general more upper body strength is a fact, the use of this as an insult -- the use of ANY type of feminine quality as an insult -- is a way to ingrain into all of us from our earliest years that feminine = bad.

I said elsewhere that I wish I hadn't used that example -- there are TONS of others to use -- but this one was a reference to an old thread that turned into a flamewar, so... anyway, it's beside the point. The real discussion isn't this one particular example, it's the use of any word describing any aspect of femininity, or anything associated with femininity, as an insult.

Two things:

How many insults can you think of like this? Now, think about the same thing wrt men -- how many insults can you think of? Why the vast difference?

If you had a daughter, would you let her play with "boy's" toys - action figures, cowboy hats, etc.? Would you let her wear power ranger shoes or dinosaur shoes or other kinds of "boy's" shoes?

How about a son? Would you let him play with baby dolls and barbies and my pretty ponies? Would you let him wear pink shoes?

[hfojvt]

104. my wanna-be stepdaughter was a Ninja turtles fan for a time

I did not have a problem with that. I gave her a Lorax video, and a keyboard, and tried to interest her in Winnie the Pooh. I am more interested in getting them to read than I am in their toys. Boys can play with Barbies or "my pretty ponies" as long as them make them fight. Is there an "action Barbie", based on Trinity from The Matrix?

I really think it is more of a commentary that females "don't" do some things as well as males, not that they "can't". I would try to teach my daughter to take that as a challenge, that nothing is inevitable. Of course, I also try to teach people not to pick on or tease other people, except in a good natured way. So a good-natured sexist ripost is still better than a bad-natured, cruel, non-sexist dis.

[redqueen]

105. Why is it necessary that the boy makes them fight?

What if he wants to play with them the same way girls do? What then?

[hfojvt]

108. then it will be my job

to teach him the "proper" way to play. Either that or head to the doctor for testosterone supplements or a DNA test. I demand that my son be a chip off the old block.

Hey, I am only joking, although you may need an electron microscope or a UN inspection team to find the humour content.

This business of what I would do as a parent is all too hypothetical for me. Like speculating how I would teach my flying pigs to catch frisbees.

I think that athletic sterotypes should be taken lightly or in the spirit in which they are given - whether playfully or hostile. I do not like the b-word as a common term, but I am not bothered if it is a deserved pejorative. Debating whether it is deserved or not is another question. I usually use the non-sexist a-word anyway.

[redqueen]

109. Hypothetical though it may be... the reason I ask it is important.

It is acceptable to most in our society that a girl 'acts like a boy'... which implies that it is OK for a girl to posses masculine traits. masculinity = good

However, even in today's modern world it is still decidedly NOT acceptable for a boy to 'act like a girl'... which implies that it is NOT OK for a boy to possess feminine traits. femininity = bad

We have to stop this... seriously.

[Left Is Write]

111. Yes, I'm aware men and women are built differently.

That does not preclude the fact that there are women with great athletic ability and men without.

[WilliamPitt]

16. You throw like a girl, bitch

*pushing you off fence*

;)

[redqueen]

17. Watch it, now!

I'm eminently capable of kicking your ass!

Well, maybe not... but I'd sure as hell enjoy trying. :evilgrin:

[WilliamPitt]

18. Welllllllllll

redqueen's a bitch, she's a big ol' bitch, she's the biggest bitch in the whole wide world, she's such a bitch, she's a big ol' bitch, she's a bitch to all the boys and girls!

</Cartman from South Park voice>

*ducking, fleeing, giggling*

[DS1]

20. (In D Minor)

On Monday she's a bitch,
on Tuesday she's a bitch.

And Wednesday through Saturday she's a bitch.

Then on Sunday just to be different,

she's a super king kamaya maya beyotch

[WilliamPitt]

21. Harmony!

[DS1]

23. Break it down

Have you ever met my pretty redqueen.

She's the biggest bitch in the whole wide world.

She's a mean old bitch and she has stupid hair.

She's a big big big big big big big bitch.

Big bitch big bitch big bitch bitch, she's a stupid bitch

( woo! )

Redqueen's a bitch And she's just a dirty bitch.

[matcom]

24. careful

she will get "bitchy"

[redqueen]

25. hehehehehehe

If I ever meet you guys, it's goin' down!

Seriously... if I have the chance, I will most definitely take you down and at least attempt to put a hurtin' on yas! Hope you like wrestling. :)

[WilliamPitt]

26. Ah yes, militancy returned

Ain't that a bitch.

:)

*definitely fleeing now*

[DS1]

27. Wrestling in what?

As matcom's so capably demonstrated, I have plenty of thongs at my disposal. Actually, I have plenty of GOPIsEvil's thongs at my disposal...

[WilliamPitt]

29. You have thongs in your disposal?

How do you dispose of your waste food?

And...hesitate to ask...what happened to the wearer of the thongs?

[matcom]

30. i took them off

to floss

[WilliamPitt]

31. That I can see

You have teeth like a slat-sided fence. I'm surprised you don't floss with that goddam ugly dog of yours.

[matcom]

32. you idiot

that's how i WIPE :eyes:

[WilliamPitt]

33. I thought that's what the cats were for

How do you get the chunks of chipmunk out from between those giant teefers of yours?

(I'd say this thread has been sucessfully hijacked)

[matcom]

34. the cats are for my PURE pleasure

they are ssssooooofffttttt

mmmmmmmmmmmmm

[DS1]

35. The cats stay inside, it'd be impractical to wipe with cat as you'd

stink up your own house too quick. Didn't you learn ~anything~ in Catholic School?

[WilliamPitt]

36. But cats are self-cleaning

Seems practical.

That goddam dog can barely even walk.

[matcom]

37. but he can PISS on ANYTHING!!!

its a gift

[DS1]

38. Incontinence, by Ralph Lauren

:D

[WilliamPitt]

39. So wait

You floss with thongs, fuck your cats, and clean yourselff after pooping by having your dog piss on your ass.

Disneyland at Chez Matcom, I say.

[DS1]

40. The real kicker is

matcom's really a black woman.

[WilliamPitt]

42. ...named Whoopie

[redqueen]

44. You guys havin' fun?

Just checkin... :grr:

[WilliamPitt]

48. Your thread has been hijacked

by ijits.

All your base are belong to us.

[redqueen]

52. Hey, you're keepin' it kicked.

The meaninglessness of the content of your kicks is beside the point. :)

[DS1]

55. Your Jedi child psychology is useless against us

:D

[redqueen]

Chill!

I'm not impugning your little thing here y'all got goin'!

It might be somewhat entertaining, even... I'll read it sometime. :)

[DS1]

45. Is she about a size 14?

[WilliamPitt]

46. It puts the thong between its teeth. It does this whenever it's told.

[DS1]

51. Don't you touch my fucking princess!

[WilliamPitt]

57. A matcom once tried to test me

I ate his liver with some favre beans and a nice Chianti.

ts-s-s-s-s-s-s-s-s-s-s-s-s-s-s...

[DS1]

64. Favre beans? GreenBay sucks! Stillers Suck!

PATS, CELTICS, RED SOX 2005 - Boston Domination begins in 90 minutes!

And Chicago still sucks!

[underpants]

56. What...like...TIM RUSSERT!?!?!??!

Tim Russert throws like a GIRL!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1627230

[redqueen]

59. Post whore!

:P

[WilliamPitt]

65. 'Whore' is sexist, bitch!

...and everything just goes haywire...

[redqueen]

67. Nut uh... he's a man-whore.

So there... you can't be sexist against men!

Yeah, I said it.

[underpants]

84. Damn! I've been outted

[redqueen]

89. Aww... no Gannon pics?

I'm disappointed, really.

(Btw... I really do think you can be sexist against men... I know it's really not funny to explain your real thoughts while joking around, but I'm naturally a pretty serious person, hence this explanation.)

[tigereye]

75. kudos for you RQ

for trying to make a serious post! ( insert bowing down smiley here)

[redqueen]

79. Well I meant to put this in GD...

I knew how it would end up in this den of iniquity
.

[tigereye]

86. well go and put it there

while I get into tai chi posture here, get out my tai chi sword ( it's wood), and impart some sense into those who like the b---- word. ;)

hey this sounds like a great martial arts movie plot.

:hi:

[redqueen]

91. Already done...

and you're right... it does sound like the start to a nice plot. Keep it under your hat, though -- I think I've found a new project. :)

[tigereye]

94. righto!

:thumbsup:

[DS1]

19. A girlie argument if I ever saw one

:D

[RedCloud]

28. You have some photos of being on the fence???

Not trying to sound sexist, it's just that i am a visual learner and I like red!

[VelmaD]

47. I'm really glad to hear this

I know a couple of boys whose asses we need to get together and go kick.

[WilliamPitt]

50. *ducking*

[VelmaD]

54. You better duck...

'cause you know I can kick your butt AND make you like it. ;)

BENT OAFER! :spank:

[redqueen]

53. hehehe

I thought you might be... we'll do that kicking soon!

[VelmaD]

60. Woohoo!

Just make sure to bring some aloe vera gel or something...I have nefarious plans for one of those butts when I'm done kicking it. :)

[redqueen]

71. Ooh, then I'll bring a videocamera too!

:evilgrin:

[WilliamPitt]

74. Bow chicka bow bow

[VelmaD]

80. Well that depends...

on whether somebody is a very good and very lucky boy. :P

[WilliamPitt]

82. You wear Depends?

Someone get matcom's dog over here.

[VelmaD]

85. Well...no...but if that's what turns you on...

:shrug:

[DS1]

61. In honor of the Pope's demise, I insist that you cease self-jacking

immediately.

[redqueen]

69. hahahahahaha... self-jacking....

oh lord... and together with a mention of the pope's demise... that's effing priceless, DS1... low, even for you!

[underpants]

49. Can we get an exemption for Tim Russert?

:hi:
Tim Russert throws like a GIRL!!!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1627230

[redqueen]

58. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

NO! :mad:

But thanks for being reliable. :D

[WilliamPitt]

63. Tim Russert throws like outinforce

*really ducking now*

[matcom]

66. NEW TREE!!!!

:D

:bounce:

[WilliamPitt]

68. Your dog is ugly and retarded

and you throw like a girl, beyotch.

[matcom]

70. your just BITCHY

don't get your panties in a wad

is it you time of the month or something? :D

[WilliamPitt]

73. Always

Can I borrow your dog?

[matcom]

76. you wanna go AFTER DS1??

you sick bitch!

[underpants]

78. redqueen and Russert sittin' in a new tree....

t-h-r-o-w-i-n-g

First comes a joke
then comes an baffling degeneration into a flamefest

[redqueen]

81. Baffling?

I think not... try predictable and uh... lame?

[underpants]

87. Oh crap I forgot "Baffling" is derogetory to Baffs

Just kidding.

I really learned a lot from that thread. Honestly.

[redqueen]

92. Seriously?

For real?

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!

Honestly... that really warms my heart. I thought there was little or no real understanding achieved.

:hug:

[DS1]

95. You must be a member of the Baffist Party

:D

[underpants]

99. Well since I live in Virginny

I think that would make me a Southern Baffist too

[VelmaD]

88. Beyond predictable...

Makes the swallows coming back to Capistrano look capricious.

[DS1]

96. It's not predictable

It's CLOCKWORK BABY! :woohoo:

[Misunderestimator]

97. Happy Monday Indeed! Good post.

and thanks. :thumbsup:

[redqueen]

101. Thank you...

for not writing me off, and instead trying to talk some sense into me. :)

[Misunderestimator]

102. You're a good person, redqueen...

we disagreed on some specific stuff in the past, but I always recognized your inner person. Sorry if I was too rough on you before... I know I can be. :pals:

[redqueen]

106. Awwww

That means a lot... thanks. I doubt you were too rough... I'm just a bit sensitive is all. :hug:

[tjwash]

103. Oh man, I thought you meant BUSH* throws like a girl...

[DrGonzoLives]

107. Bitch, bitch, bitch

You complain like a woman, I swear.

:evilgrin:

Note the evil smiley. That is an indicator of the sarcasm of this post

[redqueen]

113. I love the disclaimer.

:hi:

[name not needed]

112. off my fence, bitch!

:7

[texas1928]

114. OK I will be in hiding after this.

Well you are a girl, and if you throw something, then you throw like a girl. So quit griping. :P



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