When a person dies...

[Andy_Stephenson]

Poll question: When a person dies...

Does the Conservation of Energy theory apply?

"In any physical or chemical change , energy is neither created
nor destroyed, but merely changes from one form to another"

[VelmaD]

1. You needed another option for...

those of us who believe both "Yes" and "Dude you need to stop thinking about this shit". :)

Tell ya what, I'm busy getting ready for work right now. But I've got a 4 hour drive up to my parents' house later this afternoon. I'll call you and we can talk about my philosophy on what happens to us when we aren't on this physical plane of existence.

Love you. :hug:

[Andy_Stephenson]

2. I am thinkiing more in terms

of much farther down the road of life.

[VelmaD]

4. Good

I'll make you another deal. I promise you outlive you if you promise to outlive me. :)

If you're feeling philosophical rather than maudlin then it'll be a much more fun conversation to keep me occupied while I drive.

[Andy_Stephenson]

8. Pensive would describe

my mental state right now. Not maudlin...not philosophical...Just pensive. I am scared to death of what is ahead. I wish to hell this ordeal was already over!

[greatauntoftriplets]

20. I wish it was over, too.

:) and :hi:

[Mutley]

41. You don't know me

but I just wanted to say good luck and get well soon. I live in B-More and I can tell you that, around here at least, JH has a fantastic reputation.

:hug:

We're ALL here for you.

[Zhade]

113. So do we. Feel better soon.

We demand it. :)

[Andy_Stephenson]

116. Yes Sir!

Will do.

[Zhade]

121. Good. :-)

We really do love you, man. You're one of the ubergood ones.

[Andy_Stephenson]

122. Awww shucks...

now I am blushing.

Thanks...

[Zhade]

123. Just the truth, my friend. We want you to be well.

You've done a lot for the cause, and it's not flattery to say we appreciate and need your efforts.

So please take care.

[Andy_Stephenson]

127. Thanks...

I promise I will take care and get well. Besides I don't look good stiff.

:)

[Andy_Stephenson]

3. To those of you voting yes...

how does it apply...and why?

[Heidi]

7. Organic matter is organic matter.

That's how I _think_ it applies, but it's been a long time since I've had a college level science course, so take it for what it's worth.

As to my personal views, I sort of life the idea of my body one day being part of the big Everything.

[DrDebug]

9. It gets transformed

The energy and matter of your body get transformed to other living creatures and to the environment. So overall nothing changes except that you ultimately become dissolved into millions of other living beings.

In a way it is the same as the 'you' right now. We are not one being, but consist of millions of cells and most of them work independent and that collection of millions of organisms is what we call a human being.

To give you an example. In old days there was a test with a person who just had his head chopped off. They tickled his breasts and indeed the right hand raised and moved towards the chest with no brain either.

[stellanoir]

5. well

I'm sure you're aware of the reports that suggest that a human body is 1-2 lbs heavier when it's alive than when it has expired.

Some believe that represents the spirit itself.

But I'm a reicarnationalist. . .so go figure. . .

[sui generis]

12. that's true but

it's because your sphincters blow when you croak and you can easily lose that much in body waste

[Modem Butterfly]

14. Note to self: Potty more often

Yikes.

[sui generis]

17. a great plan if you couple that with "avoid croaking"

that's my plan anyway.

:hi:

[ghostsofgiants]

48. You mean 21 grams

Which is nowhere near a pound. 0.05 pounds approximately.

[SHRED]

6. Anything other than #3 or #4...

and you are merely guessing.

[GreenPartyVoter]

10. Andy, I am positive that when Mom died in January she just slipped

out of what was her body and is now busy doing other things in spirit form.

Last I heard from a psychic acquaintance of mine, she is training to be an angel and is very content. (And I believe this because years ago I had some sort of experience...a dream or out of body situation... that I think was a vision of "heaven".)

[Andy_Stephenson]

11. I just wish I knew for sure.

you would think loved ones would communicate to us from the other side. There must be some way to do it. I think that will be my mission from the other side. Sort of the AT&T of the spirit realm. :)

I think the fear of the unknown is what has me so...well...concerned.

[DrDebug]

16. Think of a word

And tell that word to the person closes to you. Make sure it is a word which is anything but common, but you know where to find that word in your environment however it is a place where the other person would rarely go. If within 49 days the person sees the word then for them it's proof.

As a Buddhist I do give you a word to remember. Dewachen. Try to memorize and repeat it, because they say that it'll be okay if you think of that word after you died, but I can't proof that and it could be just a rumour or ...

[GreenPartyVoter]

21. John Lennon was supposed to float a feather for Sean, but

I never heard that he did. I have, however, felt my mother-in-law nearby at times.. especially when I was checking in on my babies when they slept. It was like she was right there at my shoulder looking into the cribs with me. (I haven't really felt my mother yet because I am still so caught up in grief and anger and depression, and those all block out receptiveness.)

Part of the reason we don't know what happens for sure, I think, is that it's planned that way. We tend to act differently when we know things for certain. And I am of the opinion that this life is essentially school. We're here to learn and grow. That's the only reason I can come up with why bad things are allowed to happen to us, so that we can in turn help someone else out when it happens to them.

I'll tell you what my dream experience was, though I am not sure if it will help you much.

I was running through a field behind my parents' house. Though they were invisible to my eyes, I could feel two beings on either side of me, moving along with me.

They told me to "jump... jump!!" but there was no where to jump to and I didn't understand what they meant. So one got in front of me and pulled and the other behind and pushed and they ripped my soul out of my body. (That's apparently what the jump was supposed to be, leaving my body.)

It didn't hurt, but I had a fingernails on a blackboard sensation that felt like it went on forever and was over in an instant all at once. The field, trees, sky and everything else were gone. It had been broad daylight but now it was black... except for this exquisite magenta light. It was like a nebula in outerspace, only I didn't see any stars.

And I was a part of the nebula rather than just seeing it from afar, and even though I was still "me" I could tell there were many other "MEs" there. Individuals and all One at the same time.

It was blissfully peaceful and content and warm and lovely. No pain. No rejection. No sense of loss. Just a coming home.

I woke up from that dream and was terribly discombobulated all day. Had very little control over my body, and at a crosswalk my brain told me to stop, but my body kept on going! If my friends hadn't held me back I would have stepped out into oncoming traffic. A very weird thing, to be sure.

But anyway, I feel certain that my mother is now a part of that light, although perhaps she sees it differently than I did. Maybe heaven is like that.. you see what you want?? :)

The nice thing is, that no matter how lousy things get here on earth... not matter how hideous and shocking it can be, I know that there in the END it is ok. Because there is something more.

I know there are plenty of folks who don't believe in this sort of thing and who would like to tell me my brain made it all up while I slept. But I like to think that it really happened. It's easier to get through life, and the loss of my loved ones, that way.

:hug: O8)

[Andy_Stephenson]

23. I had a dream on Wed.

In it my Dad was working on a fence...basically doing carpenter work...He was never a carpenter...but loved doing carpenter work anyway. My Sister jan was in the house baking away...she was a fantastic cook and I loved being in her kitchen when she cooked because of the awesome smells. In the living room were two of my friends David C and Bruce F...David died when we were 12...he was killed in a freak accident and Bruce died of penumonia. Everyone in the dream was already on the other side...but were so full of life. I woke up from that dream and it took several hours to shake the feeling that it had not been a dream. Still today it does not seem like it was a dream. Fact is I almost called my mom to see if I had dreamed my sisters death. I can't understand why I had the dream and why the cast of characters that were there showed up. I certainly know many other people that have passed...but those 4 it was a strange dream.

[GreenPartyVoter]

25. Well of course you are contemplating the what-ifs of the other side, and

I think it's ok for you to believe that that they really are living on in another way that's just out of our reach to comprehend. (For most of us, anyway. I really do believe there are people who are sensitive to both planes of existence.)

But just think, these people you loved.. all the ambitions they had.. all the desire to Do somtehing.. to MATTER in some way.. how could those thoughts and desires just disappear? I don't think they do. I think they move on without the body, or maybe into a new body, and they keep working on those things.

We want the world to be a better place. Why should we let death stop us from doing that? My mother was a Special Ed teacher (and art teacher at one time) .. a very creative person and a staunch defender of the underdogs. No way that that just ended when she took her last breath. I think she's still doing what she can in some way to help others. It was the nature of her being. (that's why I buy the idea of her training to be an angel. She was always taking classes and going to workshops in life, too. *lol*)

[Andy_Stephenson]

26. Your Mom sounds like she was a special lady!

Perhaps we do go on trying to attain what we were not able to in life. My Dad...he was a great guy...just not a carpenter....rotfl. That is one reason the dream was so funny...he was doing something in life he was not suited for. He was a smart man and could fix any HAVC/Boiler system there was. Build a house...forget it. Maybe he is working on what he really wanted to do in life.

OK I really need to get out of the house. I want to go see Starwars tonight...I need some diversion from all of this. I think I am beginning to crack...they finally have gotten to me. The bastards. Damn just think next week I will be in intensive care with stitches and a drain. How wonderful. :sarcasm:

OK I am making no sense now...I truly have gone off the deep end.

[GreenPartyVoter]

27. Andy, it'll be okay *hugs* Go get some fresh air and sunshine

and maybe play with a kitten or a small child and you'll feel better. :)

Editing to say that I am not trying to make light of the situation, but really.. just take a moment out of time.. just stop time and get lost in a bit of carefree happiness.

[VelmaD]

30. I think you should go see the movie...

maybe take it in as a matinee this afternoon. And don't tell me you don't feel up to it. My best friend went and saw it on Wednesday night after having a horrible flare up of her Trigeminal neuragia during the day and having been at the hospital that afternoon. She was heavily medicated...which must have made the movie a much more entertaining experience for her. :) Go see it...it'll take your mind off things.

[Andy_Stephenson]

59. I wish I could go see it...

but I may have to wait till the crowds die down.

[The Flaming Red Head]

125. My best friend just died at the age of 44

He came and stayed with me for six weeks about a month ago. My Siamese cat was very attached to him and would meow over and over again to wake him and have him pet him or feed him. The cat keeps going back to the guest room and the empty bed and keeps meowing for him and I wonder if my cat sees something that I don't.

His memorial service is today and the cat didn't start doing it till after he died. He didn't do it after he left. He just started. A bit unnerving.

God I miss him.

[AlienGirl]

67. A good mission!

Personally, my mission is to be able to recall this life in my next ife.

PM me if you want my views on reincarnation and stuff.

Tucker

[Shell Beau]

13. Think in terms of living.

It is better for the soul! :)

[sui generis]

15. according to Hawking now

not even a black hole can destroy information.

I like to think that the information that defines us is subject to the same rules; just not sure that the "me" that is "I" will still be around in any way that has relevance to other humans after I'm gone.

The miracle of life for me is being alive and knowing it.

[Jara sang]

18. The way I look at it.

Death for me will be a release from this world. You could look at that in terms of energy transference, I just don't know, nobody does. The uncertainty and the desire to know is what causes people a lot of emotional pain. If one suffers from physical pain then they will be released from that, they will also be released from the emotional pain. Another thing that causes people great emotional pain is the singularity of death itself. Everbody dies alone. That is a great discomfort to a lot of people. I used to look at it in terms that I would "miss out" on things at my death while others lived on, however everybody will die. In Hinduism, Nirvana actually means "the void", or nothingness. Also think about it like this, life is such a crazy notion in this world that the prospect of an after life is not that far-fetched, we're here, why not an after-life? If there is no after-life then you won't know anyway. Hope this message eases some of your angst over the subject.

[johnnie]

19. What happens to out thoughts?

Although they are not physical or chemical, they are energy. Do they reform and enter someone else's consciences? Maybe our thoughts are actually someone else's, or a collection of thought fragment from days gone by.


Hang in there Andy. Good to see ya around here.

[Heidi]

22. Maybe . . .

the way our thoughts are transformed and survive our deaths lies in the people who are touched by our thoughts and beliefs, as expressed by our behavior? Just a though. :hi:

[yvr girl]

24. I think our spirits lives forever

I guess all our energy goes from our body to our spirit. Andy, it's normal to think about these things when we face our mortality but try to stay positive.

I firmly believe that you have many more years ahead of you. I think you have stories to tell and battles to fight. You have a mission.

[Andy_Stephenson]

28. I know yvr

but I am just so damned tired and all of the stress of the last two weeks have gotten to me. I just need a quiet place to go relax...meditate and chill.

I miss termite...I really need him here with me. I hate facing all this alone and after all no matter how many people are there...I am facing this alone.

[yvr girl]

39. I don't think we ever face anything alone

But that's a long conversation.

I do understand what you mean though. Friends and family can be very supportive and hold our hands and do every good thing, but they can't walk in our shoes. You're the one who has to cross the field of hot coals.

Andy, your journey is unique and solitary, but other people have faced what you face. We all do. Take courage from all those who have suffered and lived.

This will be a transformative experience for you. Every day will be more precious. Every friend will be more dear. You will spend each parcel of energy with more thought.

Andy, you will go into that operating room alone but the thoughts and prayers of thousands are with you.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

29. Yes and I do think this is worth thinking about

not just for you but for all of us. We think since we don't have your diagnosis we aren't dying.

[VelmaD]

31. *nodnodnod*

Andy and I were talking about this in a round about way while I was driving to work. You never know when you'll be walking along, trip over a spoon, fall out into traffic and get hit by a bus. You gotta LIVE every day. :)

[Andy_Stephenson]

33. And then damnit...

I triped over a spoon in the kitchen.

:rofl:

Thank god the downtown express was not rolling through.

;)

[VelmaD]

34. Oh. My. GAWD!

You did not? Too funny.

*snort*

[In_The_Wind]

32. yes

I believe that our body is simply a shell for our essence, our spirit lives on after the shell has served its purpose.




many of us have walked this path before and will again

:loveya: Andy :hug:

Joani

[merh]

36. I agree with Joan.

Some folks are old souls, they have been around before. Some folks you have known before, in a prior life, and that is why you feel so at ease with them.

We keep coming back until we get it right! O8)

[In_The_Wind]

37. thanks merh

... and then the choice is truly ours to return :evilgrin: :dilemma: O8) or not

[merh]

38. Yeah, something like that . . .

To me hell is continuing to have to return to the "earthly" existence, to suffer the failings, the pains, the cruelities of mankind. Heaven is a purely spiritual existence, all energy, free from the earthly restraints that make us know we are human.



p.s.: in a former life, I had to have been a man that was really shitty to women, I've gotten my paybacks this go around and then some. :silly:

[In_The_Wind]

43. self actuation is the pathway to enlightenment

Suffering is a state of mind ~ we can choose to be a victim of life or we can take the gift of knowledge from every experience, learn from it, then move on. Much of the pain we feel on earth is unnecessary.

I fully believe that I've visited here many times before. I'm certain that I have not always been female. That is as it should be to acquire the understanding that will balance the energy which feeds our very soul.

[merh]

46. Suffering does not make one a victim of life.

"Suffering is a state of mind ~ we can choose to be a victim of life."
Suffering is a part of life, how we deal with that suffering, how we react to it, that is a test of life and of who we are.

We are all victims of life and in life if we are truly spiritual. To feel the anquish of a friend that is suffering, to feel the horrors of a people at war, to suffer the injustice of those falsely accused, to know the despair of the family with no income and no medical care - those are all human sufferings that do not make us victims, they make us participants and more human, but also more spiritual. To know the sufferings of this world, to not be able to close our eyes at night because it is all too real and beyond our control, that is a suffering that we chose, because we care, because we have compassion and hopefully, because we have cultivated the gift of empathy, but knowing those sufferings does not make us a victim of life, they make us participants.

[In_The_Wind]

50. empathy can be an excellent motivator

Thanks for sharing your thoughts ~ merh.

I do feel the plight of those who are suffering the third dimensional horrors of reality as we all should.

[merh]

55. Hope you have a great Friday, Joani.

:hi:

blessings to you and yours

m.

[RFKHumphreyObama]

35. Andy, I wouldn't dwell on this topic too much if this worries you

But I truly do think that souls last forever and that there is a spiritual world which we go to in the afterlife. As someone who believes in a God, I believe we dwell with Him for eternity in the spiritual world (this is just my own belief and is not intended to cause offence) So I believe that we do transform from one form to another -although I think the true dynamics of the spiritual world are way beyond the comprehension and understanding of the human mind.

Please take care and all the best. I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers :hug:

[goodboy]

40. Your consciousness drops off into the collective, and you absorb

all the knowledge in the universe.

[merh]

42. Cool!

I like that. :hi:

:grouphug:

[GreenPartyVoter]

44. Exactly. We'll finally know how the BFEE managed to get away with it all!

[goodboy]

51. HA HA HA ! cool. (nt)

[GreenPartyVoter]

52. Of course, everything else is revealed too. My mother now knows

everythign I ever hid from her. :hide: But on the plus side, she's too content to really care. *g*

[In_The_Wind]

47. nice

I like what you said!

:hi:

[miss_kitty]

45. Dear Andy

You don't know me and I don't know you, but I understand the trepidation you are feeling, having gone through a similar situation a few years back.

It's amazing how one focuses on the ethereal during a time like this, but in a way I considered myself lucky to have the opportunity to reflect in a way I would not have otherwise done. I had a chance to view and prepare for what is an inevibility for all of us. It is a chance most do not get. In addition, I got better. Which you will do too.

You have many people pulling for you, and soon you will be on the other side of this experience, and it will get smaller and smaller in your rear-view mirror. You will be back here at home and doing most the stuff you used to do.

You will have to wait for the answer to your question.

I wanna chance to vote for you again, dude! and now, an ultra-rare miss_kitty cyber hug-:hug:

[dweller]

49. perhaps

O nobly-born, when thy body and mind were separating, thou must have experienced a glimpse of the Pure Truth, subtle, sparkling, bright, dazzling, glorious, and radiantly awesome, in appearance like a mirage moving across a landscape in spring-time in one continuous stream of vibrations. Be not daunted thereby, nor terrified, nor awed. That is the radiance of thine own true nature. Recognize it.

excerpt of The Bardo of the Experiencing of Reality from the Tibetan Book of the Dead.


peace.
dp

[paula777]

53. If our energy merely changes form - I wonder if we are aware of the

change. Like, are thoughts involved when we have this transformation. I guess my answer is 'I dunno'.

[Taverner]

54. Dude, Death IS the enemy

Don't ever forget that, OK?

[Andy_Stephenson]

56. I will...but sometimes...

death can be a friend as well. I imagine if a person is in extreme pain...death would be welcome.

[Taverner]

57. Not to belittle someones pain but

death is not rest, merely ceasing of existance...

Perhaps Morphine is your ally in your war against death....

[Andy_Stephenson]

58. Morphine is good

but I prefer to remain lucid and awake.

[AlienGirl]

65. You cannot know what death is

I have read enough unusual accounts, and seen enough for myself, that I am convinced the Mystery is deeper than we can know. And it is good.

Tucker

[all.of.me]

93. i agree

i think it is a positive experience. i think we are 'home' after we die.

it is our society that fuels fear of death. other, more indigenous, cultures see that death is passing from one facet of your existence to another. there are ceremonies and celebrations, not fear.

[Donkeyboy75]

60. Well, the energy in the molecules in your body remain

the same. Life/death has no effect on the energy levels of chemicals present in your body.

On edit: To be more clear, no energy change occurs when an organism dies.

But, this is a theological question looking for a scientific answer. I think theology and science are mutually exclusive.

I'm not trying to be an ass, but the physical sciences aren't equipped to deal with these questions.

All the best next week, Andy. :hug:

[Deja Q]

61. It's all relative.

[Andy_Stephenson]

62. Relative to what?

Is Einstein involved here?

:hide:

[Spider Jerusalem]

63. Of course it applies...

the energy stored in the body is converted during the decompostion process and goes into the soil, whence come plants and trees and so on...in the case of cremation, it's converted into heat energy, which dissipates in the atmosphere, and so on...I don't subscribe to the theory that "consciousness" is a separate form of energy that goes somewhere else, though.

[Goldmund]

64. You're not gonna die, dude.

But I'd love to discuss this with you once you get better. :)

[AlienGirl]

66. We're all gonna die, eventually

When you look mortality in the face, you really get to thinkin'.

Andy, I believe you're going to beat this cancer. Cancer can kiss your ass. But even though you'll beat this one, you are being given the gift of knowing your mortality. It is the awesomest thing you can have, because it makes every moment count more. From here on out, you are one of the ones who has looked It in the face. Welcome to the club.

Tucker

[Andy_Stephenson]

68. I am SCARED

to death!

[Goldmund]

69. Then imagine what it'll be like when that fear is trasformed...

...into a pure love of life.

Bev will self-combust.

[Andy_Stephenson]

70. What do you mean???

I love life...I don't want to die yet...I have to much left to do.

[Goldmund]

106. That IS what I mean. :)

Fear of dying is only the flip-side of the desire to live. But those that have never faced death often see their love of life become an abstraction. Once you experience a true fear of dying, the desire to live becomes a material, touchable, accessible thing that you feel with every inch of your skin. Once you beat this motherfucker you will lose the fear but keep the love.

I've only really experienced that fear once, as a child, for a few moments -- nothing like what you're facing.

I grew up in Serbia, in Belgrade. Belgrade is a totally modern city, and it wasn't much of a cultural shock when I moved to New York as a teenager. But if you drive a hundred miles from Belgrade, it's like walking through a time-machine: most didn't have electricity until a few decades ago, they live off of their own land, they speak archaic dialects and obey ancient Christian customs still obviously rooted in paganism; there are few paved roads and nature is untouched. I had some relatives who lived in such a place, so I used to spend a few weeks each summer there as a child. It was a mystical land for me, strange and slightly frighening.

As you can imagine, the area around where they lived was not densely populated. I usually synchronized the time I spent there with a second cousin of mine, Alexander, who lived in another city in Serbia. He was three years older; when this happened, I was 11, and he was 14.

As we always did, we woke up in the morning (the Pater Familius dude would wake us up around 6:30; we got to sleep in because we were just city kids) and helped our relatives pick raspberries untill noon. Then we went down to lunch, and -- again, cuz we were city kids -- got the afternoon off while the rest of them went back to the raspberries. We went deep into the woods (we loved to try to get lost and then find our way back, teasing ourselves with titillating panic that the Sun may set before we find the house) and saw a cherry tree.

So of course, we had to climb it. And as always, there was a competition on who would climb the higher branch and who would get the bigger, denser, redder cluster of cherries. And it was always like a math problem or solving a labyrinth; each of us tried to figure out which branches to step on and which path through the tree to take. Nature is full of math problems; crossing a stream is another common one, figuring out which rocks to step on and which to avoid.

So I cimbed to the top of the tree, probably 40 or 50 feet high, definitely higher than Alexander; but he played it smarter and managed to get more cherries. I saw a huge, red, rich cluster of cherries, maybe 3 yards away from where I was. The only way I could get there was a thick branch. It looked healthy.

The next thing I remember is a green tunnel with a light-blue opening, its walls streaming away from me, while I was comfortably lying on a bed of air, the light blue opening becoming smaller and smaller, my clothes fluttering in the breeze. It was a long, long descent.

The following frame in my memory is being lowered to the ground from the arms of a man dressed like a local peasant, he smelled like onions, his face rough and red. I don't remember the moment he caught me. If he said anything, I don't remember that either; in my memory he said nothing and walked away.

We never else, before or after that, saw anybody in those woods. Other than some city kids looking for a primal exotic land, nobody had any reason to be there.

Years later, in my late teens and early twenties, I battled depression. It never overcame me; I got really good grades in college, but always had to work hard against my depression. I could get myself to spend the week studying like mad, and then Saturday would come and with the relaxation, so would the depression. When I was depressed, my every sense was atrophied; colors looked dull, sounds were narrow (I was a music composition major, so that was a problem) and weak, the air was hostile and cold (New England).

One of my main "techiques" to fight it was meditating on the image of that green tunnel, and, in my mind, making the light blue opening get bigger instead of smaller. And if I thought of that for a while, the colors would come back, and so would the sounds and inspiration. That tunnel is to this day one of my very dearest memories, and thinking about it doesn't taste dark and heavy and stale like the fear of death, but sweet and bright and paints my whole inner world vivid and vibrant.

And that's just from falling from a tree, for an eternal instant.

I can't even fathom what kind of a "tunnel" you'll have been given after you beat this thing.

[enigmatic]

108. I love this post...

Another great one, my friend:)

[AlienGirl]

71. I know how you feel

:hug:

The best consolation I can offer is, if "selfhood" ceases there is nothing to worry about; if it does not, there is also nothing to worry about.

Have you had surgery under general anesthesia before? I always dream under general.

Tucker

[Andy_Stephenson]

72. I have had 2 procedures under general...

went to sleep and woke up just a moment later.

I imagine death is a bit like going under general...No dream...no concisness...nada...:cry: I am fretting myself into a tizzzy right now and I am freaked the hell out. I am fretting the afterwards as well chemo...radiation...pain...all of it. The cure seems worse than the disease.

My new question is...why me?

[AlienGirl]

75. "why me?...why not me?"

I have dreamed under general, every time.

I don't think death is like general anesthesia, though. I have my own (non-scientific) reasons for believing death is just a phase...

DUmail me, OK?

Tucker

[Andy_Stephenson]

76. I think the thing I fear the most...

is being forgotten. Who will remember me? It is the fact I will be gone and forgotten...worm food. That is what makes this the hardest thing to face.

[all.of.me]

78. the people who would remember you would be

ALL the people you have EVER touched! you have touched hundreds, if not thousands, of lives!

i wrote an essay about this once. i encouraged my writing students to make a list of who would attend a memorial service for them in the event of their passing. my own list amazed me! there are so many people i touch every day, many acquaintances, many strangers, many friends.

try it. make a list of EVERYONE you know, andy, from the checker at the supermarket to will pitt. you will be amazed at how many people you have affected over time. it will change your perspective.

[Andy_Stephenson]

83. Ok let me see

I can think of about 10 people right off the bat.

all family...then there are several here at DU I know would be there...OK I guess there are people that would remember me. But the essence of me...the spark that makes me me...once I am gone is lost forever...Who has the essence of me captured? I should have written a book...but alas I am not the great a writer...I know my limitations...but I should have written one.

[all.of.me]

90. look at your sig

you are remembering others

[Andy_Stephenson]

101. Both were great men

One...Jeff I loved dearly. As a matter of fact the day he passed I had written a card to him and was going to send it the next morning when word came of his passing.

Keph...another man I respected very much...he was witty...full of life and I adored his insights.

I miss them both very much...:cry:

[all.of.me]

111. they are remembered every day with every post of yours

you, too, will be remembered by many if anything should happen to you. i don't think it will, but that possibility exists. no point in denying it.

[greatauntoftriplets]

80. I'll remember you....

And although you have some rough times ahead of you, I believe that you will recover from this.

[Andy_Stephenson]

84. greataunt...

I love you so much...you are one of my best friends...:cry: I hate that I have let you down like this.

[greatauntoftriplets]

85. You have NOT let me down....

I love you very much also, me dear friend.

I don't know why some people get a certain disease and others don't. It's a crapshoot, I think. The gods have picked on you, but you will fight back.

This waiting is terrible for you. I keep thinking that you should be sedated for the next five days..... Termite will be back soon enough. I know he is hurting as well.

:loveya:

[Andy_Stephenson]

86. I am truly blessed to have a friend such as you...

blessed I say. I am bawling right now as I am sure you know.

[greatauntoftriplets]

89. Yes, I figured.....

I also am blessed to have such a friend as you.

Wish I could make it all go away. Just think of the drugs you'll be getting before too long. You won't even notice all the tubes, drain, catheter, etc. Just focus on that little morphine pump that your finger will be glued to.

I recall my mother's love for it when she had her colon resected.

[Andy_Stephenson]

96. Morphine as Martha Stewart would say...

is a good thing.

[greatauntoftriplets]

100. My mother would get this big smile on her face....

as she pressed that pump.

Of course, they strictly regulate the amount you get. But...to the patient...coming in and out of dreams, she didn't have a clue and the sheer act of pressing made her feel good. A little psychological feelgood trickery that gives the patient peace of mind...and a way to forget the damn incision.

[Andy_Stephenson]

102. Well now damnit...

you have spoiled the "psychological feelgood trickery"...:)

[greatauntoftriplets]

104. You won't know the difference.

You'll be stoned.

:smoke:

[Andy_Stephenson]

105. Literally and

figuratively

[greatauntoftriplets]

109. Oh yes....

Everything will be a haze for several days. You'll come in and out of consciousness and won't remember much.

But...to quote Martha again...that is a good thing.

[all.of.me]

73. i believe it just changes

the earth and universe are in a constant state of flux. life begins and life ends. the energy from those lives continues, just in a different form.

compost: food comes out of the ground and gets cooked. leftovers go into the compost pile to revert back to soil to grow more food.

pensive is good, andy. go with it. don't stop thinking about it. it is your reality right now. soon it won't be. just be where you are.

[Andy_Stephenson]

74. Reality SUCKS

I hate this waiting game. I should be recovering right now. I should know the prognosis...I don't want to be compost just yet. I am way too young to die. Besides this is not how I pictured my life ending. Cancer??? WTF? I always thought it would be an accident as I am so prone to them.

[all.of.me]

77. i understand.

i think it stinks what has happened. i don't know how to tell you to keep your spirits up. i have never been in your shoes.

i don't believe you are going to die, but those thoughts are the natural process of cancer or any other disease.

you will NOT be compost any time soon!

[Andy_Stephenson]

79. Thanks for the vote of confidence.

I just wish someone could hold my hand through this. Termite...bless him...is scared as well. But even he cannot understand my thought processes right now. I get snappy with him and it is not because of what he does...but because of what is coming from me. My Mom is great but again...she cannot understand what I am feeling, thinking and going through. She crys easily and though I love her I hate to call her because she is so upset and worried.

[all.of.me]

81. can you find some counseling?

having an objective ear through a traumatic time is really helpful. it lets you put your life into perspective to absorb it in little chunks instead of being overwhelmed by the enormity of the situation. sometimes just ONE appointment is enough to get you through a hard time.

[Andy_Stephenson]

103. I am getting therapy...

right here right now.

[all.of.me]

110. good!

yes, this is your biggest support group! and good for you for reaching out. that is not easy.

pm me anytime, andy. i am in and out these days with seasonal work, but i am glad to be a shoulder for you to lean on.

[all.of.me]

82. check your pm

[Elidor]

87. A very good question, Andy

I believe conservation does apply. I think you're leaning that way yourself. There is no death. Only the breaking of the veil. In order to come here, we had to promise to forget who and what we are until we die. The drama is apparently more piquant that way.

[valis]

88. Yes. The human body is simple matter.

[wovenpaint]

91. I used to take my Mom for treatments

and she would get sooooo nervous and think of all that could happen (understandably!). One day I brought her for a CT scan and the nurse was a man-she wasn't used to that-and he was very compassionate and soothing.
When she voiced her fears and concerns of what was possibly to come, he said something to her that I've never forgotten and always think of when I'm feeling anxious. He patted her on the shoulder as she sat in the wheelchair and said "Let's see how the day plays out, ok?"
We get so wound up with worrying about how we think things will go that ,IMHO, we make it harder on ourselves by playing all these little scenarios in our minds.
You won't be alone there! You have so many us pulling for you and the positive energy is overwhelming. Personally, I believe that you will be not only instrumental for change in our voting systems, but also for changes in our healthcare system. Who says one person can't make a difference. Hang in there, try not to stress too much, and....let the days play out. :hug: :hi: :hug:
I'm sending you healing thoughts, Andy!!!

[Andy_Stephenson]

94. Thank you

I am letting the days play out...but I am still scared and feeling alone. I know there are many pulling for me...but like I say I am still scared. I guess it is human nature to be afraid of the unknown.

I hope I dream tonight...I hope my Dad and Sister come and chat with me. I would love to hear their voices. Especially my Dad...he has been gone so long and I miss him so much!

[Dave Reynolds]

92. That was my interpretation.

But the sticky question I do not know is that does our energy (in the form of consciousness) continue, or do we spend our energy powering our bodies? I prefer to believe the former.

[Az]

95. Our identities are not just simple energy

Our minds are the result of structured energy in organized neurological connections. Lose the cohesion of the structure and you lose the mind. Its really that simple.

Life is a process. Our minds are a process. A very specific process. Cause that process to be disrupted in any significant way and you cause the identity to be lost.

[Andy_Stephenson]

97. Just in case and pull this out for Mr Frist if he tries to

diagnose me from afar...

No extraordinary measures! If there is no hope...let me go.

[Amaya]

98. This song just popped into my head

Let it be

When I find myself in times of trouble,
mother Mary comes to me,
speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
And in my hour of darkness,
she is standing right in front of me,
speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.

And when the broken hearted people,
living in the world agree,
there will be an answer, let it be.
For though they may be parted there is
still a chance that they will see,
there will be an answer, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Let it be, let it be. Yeah.
There will be an answer, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.

Let it be, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.
And when the night is cloudy,
here is still a light that shines on me,
shine on until tomorrow, let it be.
I wake up to the sound of music,
mother Mary comes to me,
speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
There will be an answer, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.

(peace to you)

[Andy_Stephenson]

99. I absolutely love that

song! as soon as I saw the words the melody was running through my head.

[enigmatic]

107. Andy, you've got a bunch of people out there....

who you don't "know" who are sending you all the good vibes you can possibly handle; you'll never be alone on this trip, I promise:)

[Zhade]

112. Man, I sure hope so.

I've invested a lot.

[Horse with no Name]

114. I know many people here do not believe in the afterlife

So I truly am wondering whether to even share this, but I will.
I believe that we simply pass from one plane to the next.
I had a patient that had was in the hospital and everything that could go wrong...did. She went into multisystem organ failure.
Her family was very attentive, but on the 5th or 6th day of her coma, they had come to trust me taking care of their mom so they went home.
I promised that I would sit at her bedside. So I took my charts and my cell phone and put them on the bedside table in her room for the night.
I was sitting there charting and all of the sudden, she sat up.
Held out her arms like she was hugging someone and then started talking to someone at the end of the bed.
Only there wasn't anyone at the end of the bed. She then turned to me and asked me if I saw them. I told her I didn't see anyone.
She said it was Jim and Bob.
She then laid back down and again was in a coma.
Her vital signs remained unchanged throughout this entire episode.
When her daughters arrived around 6, I pulled one of them aside and told her what had happened during the night.
She said that Jim was her brother and Bob was her husband (or the other way around) but they were both deceased.
I know she saw something. Her family took great comfort in the fact that this had transpired. She died later that day.
There was ABSOLUTELY no way that I could have known those names any other way. I believe they came to help her journey to the next plane.

In my experience, people die peacefully, even when they have been in severe pain. That says alot I would think.
The best quote I ever heard was "I don't remember being born and I won't remember dying."

With that story being told, please let me say, that I have great faith that your surgery will go well. You have the love and support of thousands.

Just remember, Morphine is your friend. There isn't any award given at the hospital for not requesting pain medicine when you need it. So ask for it. You cannot heal adequately unless you are pain free.
If they give you pain medicine and it doesn't help, tell them.
If they don't do anything, insist they call the doc.
Just by experience, every now and then you will encounter a nurse who likes to play gestapo with the pain medicine. Doc's don't like it when they find out that their patient's hurt.

Please have an advocate with you.

Don't feel afraid to tell someone to wash their hands before they touch you--docs are the worst at this.

Also--don't be shocked when the medical community celebrates your first fart post-op.
That's always a big day!:)

Hugs and hope you are feeling well. Prayers and well wishes coming to you from my corner of the world.

[Andy_Stephenson]

115. What a great story and good advice...

thank you!

[neweurope]

117. "Whrere there was something there cannot be nothing

suddenly" - Georg Büchner, "Danton's Death"

------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Cooley Hurd]

118. Actually, my thoughts on an afterlife and/or "ghosts" are based on this

"In any physical or chemical change , energy is neither created
nor destroyed, but merely changes from one form to another"

Since such energy is also responsible for carrying conscious thought and neuro-commands throughout the body, the idea that the energy (at the atomic level) retains its bonds is feasible. Hence, why spirits remain after the living flesh has died.

However, I'm an devout Atheist, so I believe that energy remains here on Earth.

[jukes]

119. Yes, but

not in coherant form.

[Wapsie B]

120. I already feel dead most days.

I want to live. There'd damn well better be eternal life after this to make up for the time I've lost. Just one love relationship is all I ask.

But more to your point I believe we continue on after our physical body dies. There's something inside us that makes us who we are. We're more than skin and bones and connective tissue and grey matter.

[amazona]

124. conservation of energy applies in all closed systems

This is pretty basic physics and not really a "poll" question. What is next, a poll on the law of gravity.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Go_Nukyuler_On_GOP]

126. Fill in a Newbie...

What's this about?

[cestpaspossible]

128. The unstated implication is that consciousness is a form of energy

however, I don't think so.

There fore I did not vote in the poll.