AAAGH! My 2002 Jetta broke, dealer says needs new engine

[complain jane]

I missed an oil change or two (out of ten), and they say because of that, I have to pay FIVE GRAND for a new engine.

Driving along, everything's fine, suddenly oil pressure light goes on at 54K miles. I pull right over, into VW dealer.

For starters, the ass behind the counter takes one look at me and says,

"Well, since you were near your work, did you maybe have one of the men at your work check your oil for you?"

To which I informed the idiot I was actually capable of doing this myself and that the oil level was fine.

Well, a few hours later, idiot says if I can't produce every single oil change receipt showing I had every single oil change right on time, I'm SOL and can plan on buying a whole new engine.

Lease is up in November.

On edit: What kind of piece of shit engine craps out if you miss one or two oil changes? I mean it's not like I drove the thing for forty thousand miles without changing the friggen oil for Christ sake...

[radwriter0555]

1. You better read what your contract says, right away. And insist and swear

that you got every single oil change and that there must be a leak somewhere.

Or else your neglect will indeed cost you $5,000. But if your contract says that it's null and void without proof, you're screwed.

[complain jane]

I have to come up with proof of oil changes.

Which actually, I may be able to do, based on conversations I just had on the phone...

*Proof* being the operative word. That's a lot of digging to do.

[Orangepeel]

5. it's likely that the place you got the oil changed has records

or, if you paid with a credit card, you can get copies of the statements.

Good luck!

[complain jane]

23. My dealership has four receipts

I also had three done in a place that is no longer in business.

No receipts from them, SOL.

Ain't that nice?

[Orangepeel]

49. ooh, too bad! did you pay with a credit card or write a check?

even if those records don't specifically say, "oil change on Jetta," they can bolster your case.

[GOPisEvil]

2. The grill alone costs 5 grand. Do you have 5 grand? I don't have 5 grand.

Sorry...had a "16 Candles" moment there.

On top of telling you that you need to shit 5 grand for a new engine, he was sexist? What a lovely experience for you. :sarcasm:

I think he's full of shit about the oil changes. I'd ask to speak to his boss.

[tridim]

3. There's zero chance it's the oil's fault

My Nissan has 200k miles on it and I only change the oil once a year.

What exactly did they say was broken?

[CanuckAmok]

4. Go to your state's consumer protection agency

Right away. CC everything to the dealership, the gov't agency, and a lawyer (you can just grab a lawyer's name out of the yellow pages, and put it as a "CC" at the bottom of your letters without actually CCing him/her).

Start being a prick about it right now, park your broken Jetta outside the dealership with a "lemon" sign writen in soap on the outside, and just be a thorn in their side. They will cave-in, if you have time to challenge their position effectively. What costs you $5000 costs them $1000, and most car companies would rather eat the $1000 then lose a potential number of customers.

Especially VW, who pride themselves on reliability and customer loyalty.

I had a friend with a '99 Jetta VR6, and the tranny went at around 60,000 miles. VW said "tough shit, it must be the way you drive it", but within two weeks, they were fixing it under warranty.

[NewJeffCT]

39. Definitely do this

Hopefully, you live in a state with good consumer protection laws (i.e, not Texas)

I've found the folks in Connecticut to be very helpful. I got a whole new computer once under the state's Lemon Law - after going back & forth with the PC maker & the repair shop for months, I contacted the CT Dept of Consumer Protection and they had me a new PC within 48 hours. And, since it was 9 months since I bought the original, the newer model had better specs for the same price.

[NJCher]

6. typical VW

We have a Passat and have had two or three other Passats before this one. Exactly the same thing happened to us. Errrr, that's why we keep driving them. The only way out on these deals is to go with another new Passat or a new lease.

You could consider doing that. Ask them about it.

Here's the deal. German engines do not have the high tolerances that engines like the Japanese have. You can be sloppy and get away with it with a Japanese car.

Germans are known for being precise. That's what you get with a German car like the Passat or Jetta. It's a higher standard; a different standard. It's a better car but you pay more. You also can't mess up with the car. If the agreement says you have to do something on a certain date with the car, you have to do it. I know, totally different standard than here in America.


Cher

[movie_girl99]

52. BINGO

i do the same thing. I started leasing a New Beetle then a Jetta TDI now I have a Passat. They are way cool as long as you are getting another VW. They are real sticklers on Maintenance programs and you can void the warranty by not following it to the letter.

[democracyindanger]

7. Oil aside

the first thing I'd do is write a letter to the service department head, the dealership's owner, the regional VW manager and the national VW ofice and let them know what the asshole behind the counter said. I'd say that I was shocked that VW, which presents itself as a modern, urbane brand--and even features female customers in its 'Test Drive' campaign--allows such blantantly sexist, not to mention incredibly rude, behavior to go on.

[Cornjob]

8. How does the VW rep know that the engine failure...

was related to the oil? Is he psychic? Did they tear the engine down?

I would fight them on this.

Volkwagen has gotten lousy marks for reliability for many years now.

My wife's boss (a doctor) recently bought a new Passat. It is a $35000 POS. She even had the interior rear door panels fall off!

Best of luck to you, and don't be afraid to contact a lawyer on this problem.

[complain jane]

16. The problem started to with the oil pressure light coming on

and the engine never even failed. I drove it right into the dealership.

The way it started was this. I'm driving behind a slowpoke. Road opens up to 2 lanes, I hit the gas, go around him and the oil pressure light goes on immediately, flashing, beeping.

I pull over, I call "VW 24 hour roadside assistance". Aptly named since it will be 24 hours for them to get around to picking you up. They told me 45 minutes, I waited an hour and a half. Automated voice calls me back to "confirm" that my service was "completed to my satisfaction." I clicked through to a human, said I was still baking in the 90 degree heat, she checks on tow driver, who responds saying it will be another hour or two at least before he gets to me. Receptionist said she "could see" if she could get a different tow service but couldn't make any promises if she could or how long the tow service would take with another company either.

I call work, guy who has a VW and remember he used a dealer who was in the area. He informs me it's practically around the corner so I drive it into the lot. I drove slow, hazards on, because the oil pressure light was still blinking. I didn't know what else to do. I pull it into the lot. It's still driving, although I don't know if it was driving "fine" or not because I was going so slowly.

Go in, talk to the misogynist behind the counter, who says pull it around back. When I start it back up there's no oil pressure light on, the whole drive around back. I realize it was a matter of like 100 feet but I'm just saying - it drove and wasn't making any bizarre noises.

He said he did tests to see if it was an "external" cause, outside the engine, and said it is not - it's "internal". The only way he can see what it is exactly is by opening up the engine and he has to get approval from VW for that (that they'll cover it) before he does it. Or, I'm paying for everything from here on out.

I'm not too good with maintaining my car. I skipped a few oil changes but mostly had them done on time. I don't see any reason for this. When I was a lot younger I had cars where I NEVER changed the oil. They drove to 160,000+ miles. Obviously I'm not suggesting that was a good idea but I was young and stupid.

My point is that, at 54,000 miles, with oil changes at a VW dealer, the engine shouldn't be breaking and if it is, it certainly shouldn't be charged to me.

Earlier I had problems with the engine coils, VW was refusing to recall them when they knew they were faulty. After three trips to VW to fix the same thing, they finally repaired all four coils once and for all. It took a lot of people threatening them with lawsuits to bring that about.

I'm going to steer clear of VW from now on.

[jswordy]

31. I'm a mechanic. Your trouble was likely NOT due to missed oil changes.

Oil light comes on because oil pressure in the engine has fallen to zero. Most likely possible causes with just 54,000 miles are:

1.) Bad oil pump.

2.) Oil pump pickup tube has fallen off.

3.) Oil pump screen is clogged.

4.) Oil pump drive shaft has fallen off/broken.

5.) Faulty/defective oil filter.

6.) Low oil level.

The first thing you need to do is get to the dealer ASAP and pull the dipstick on the car, if you have not already done so. If the oil level is within the safe zone, the trouble was NOT due to missed oil changes or low oil level. If the oil level is low, add oil to the full mark and see what it does. That usually corrects a light if the level was low, but may not get you off the hook now that the dealer is aware of it.

Further, a $5,000 engine replacement seems out of line, if it ran when you parked it there. Fix the cause and then see if the engine runs OK, is what I'd do. Of course, the dealer makes less money that way. And I don't know the terms of your lease.

Before having any work done, get a couple of opinions, even if it means a tow bill to another place for inspection. That tow bill will be cheap if you find a cheaper way to get it fixed.

PM me your particulars if you want any more input.

And please, never lease again. Leases are the worst way for an individual to have a car, though they make sense for businesses.

[complain jane]

34. Thanks so much

for your reply.

I think from now on I'm going to consider just throwing two grand at a used car that I can have thoroughly checked out by friends before buying.

I've just dug myself out of major financial problems. I SO don't need to have to cough up five grand for this. I simply can't, actually, which has me panicked, obviously, because I'm leasing this thing and have to deal with this.

In 2001, I found out my credit was ok enough to lease this new 2002 car so I went for it. That was basically my entire thought process on it. Not so good.

Live and learn.

[Lauri16]

9. We leased once, never again!

In the really small print, it says that you must keep up all scheduled maintenance on the vehicle, if not, you have to pay a penalty on top of all the other phantom penalties that they come up with.

Do you know of an independent mechanic that can tell you exactly what the root cause might have been? Unfortunately, with this computer crap, they can tell if someone other than a VW dealer plugged into the computer.

There's no way missing a couple of oil changes is gonna blow a motor unless you were dragging it on the weekends! If they actually tell customers that, then they're full of it.

[driver8]

10. I agree -- I will never lease a car again.

I leased a Toyota Camry for my wife -- she was using it for her business at the time...seemed like a good idea.

Long story, but I ended up buying the car. In the end I will have paid for it twice. I cannot believe I was dumb enough to lease it.

[Suich]

11. I bought a new Jetta in 2002.

I'd been driving the same Super Beetle since I bought it new in 1971. I love my Jetta...the windows go up and down, the heater works, and when you push down on the gas, you can actually go fast enough to merge with freeway traffic!

[TX-RAT]

30. Bought my daughter a 72 super Beetle for graduation.

she still drives it daily, one of the easiest vehicles to maintain I've ever seen.

[complain jane]

37. My friend has a new Beetle and has had nothing but problems.

Brand new. She hates the thing. Love it when she first got it but she has had it in the shop so many times for ridiculous things.

[Historic NY]

12. They sound like idiots........go to another VW dealer....

1st. was the car making any un-Godly sounds?
2nd. has the light ever flickered on before?
3rd. you said it was full of oil on the dip stick.
4th. did they even check the engine, could be a bad sensor, oil pressure switch or the oil pump.
5th. does your car have an oil pressure gauge?

Missing an oil change is not going to suddenly destruct an engine...running an engine w/o oil will. Trust me on this one I've driven and abused police cars for 30 yrs. I have a 73 Plymouth that the oil light comes on all the time, especially if I am braking. As it turns out the oil was too light for the old engine.

[complain jane]

22. Thanks.

1st. was the car making any un-Godly sounds?

No


2nd. has the light ever flickered on before?

No


3rd. you said it was full of oil on the dip stick.

Yes


4th. did they even check the engine, could be a bad sensor, oil pressure switch or the oil pump.

No, they want to see if VW will cover it first (opening up the engine)


5th. does your car have an oil pressure gauge?

That apparently was the dummy light on the dashboard

[TX-RAT]

33. exactly

Theres far to many other possibilities. Hell if i go 5000 miles on my GMC without an oil change, my check engine light comes on automatically.

(Trust me on this one I've driven and abused police cars for 30 yrs.)

Not quite 30yrs here, but lets just say, I've worn out a lot of Crown Vic's in 22 yrs. Probably logged close to 2 million miles. The SO has just under 1200 sq miles to patrol, in our county.

[Kellanved]

13. 10 changes in three years?

What do they sell as "VW" stateside?

VWs are supposed to be completely maintenance free for two years; more than one oil change every 10000 miles seems strange.

[youspeakmylanguage]

18. Are you referring to changing the oil of a diesel engine?

I have a 2003 Chrylser PT Cruiser (Daimler) and I change my oil every 2,000 miles like clockwork. I've heard you can go 10,000 with a new Honda Civic, but not on any other car. I'm not an expert though.

[Kellanved]

32. Yes, a VW TDI

The manual says "every 30,000 kilometers or after two years".

:shrug:

[patcox2]

40. I have a TDI, mine says every 5,000 miles

My VW mechanics, both the funky private place and the dealer, have all warned me that Jetta engines will indeed fail if they don't get their oil changed as recommended.

[youspeakmylanguage]

48. Right. You must change the oil in most unleaded engines MUCH more often

They recommend every 2,000 miles, but some people I know stretch it to 2,500 or 3,000. If you go beyond that you are taking a huge risk with your engine.

I'm paranoid about it. I start sweating if I go more than 2,200 miles without a change.

[Kellanved]

54. Sounds like the oil/fuel ín the US has a different quality

I suspected as much; in Europe there are practically no cars running on regular gas; it has to have at least 95 octane. Apparently diesel engines are affected by something similar.

I'd put the normal interval for oil changes at between 10,000 and 20,000 miles.

[movie_girl99]

53. i have to do my VW every 5000 miles

warranty states so.

[Locrian]

14. bullshift

Call Volkwagon of America VOA. And find another dealer for another opinion.

YOu didnt say what happened? No WAY is the oil the cause unless you lost it ALL. Was it acutally the timing belt?

Anyway - the guy is a fool.

Also - www.clubb5.com is a good place to look for VW stuff and they have a lot of knowledgable (although there are a lot of $$ young repub types there).

[Mutley]

15. there must be something wrong

I have a 2003 Jetta and I missed two oil changes in a row and it's fine... just had a tune-up a few weeks ago...
:shrug:

[RebelOne]

17. If missing a couple of oil changes kills your engine,

then mine would have died a long time ago.

[midnight armadillo]

19. The VW 1.8T sludges up easily

Let me guess: you have the 1.8L turbo engine, right? That engine is prone to oil breakdown and sludging, which clogs the oil passageways, starving the engine of oil and causing catastrophic failure.

If you missed oil changes, VW will blame you 100%. It can still happen if you follow their schedule too though, but you didn't. Using full synthetic oil helps prevent this, as well as changing the oil frequently if you do a lot of short trips or stop & go driving.

Seriously, Euro cars don't take neglect of routine maintenance well. If you're not keen on keeping up with everything, I'd suggest a Toyota, Honda, or a GM car with the bulletproof 3800 V6. My Saab 9-5 has a similar issue (due to a design issue with its PVC problem) but it's completely avoided by freq. oil changes. I do every 3-4 months with Mobil1 0w-40 (although I'll soon switch to Amsoil 5w-40 cause ExxonMobil sucks as a company). The oil costs $5 a qt, but is cheaper than a new engine!

[jandrok]

27. I've been driving Volvos for years with very few problems.

And believe me, I've treated those cars very roughly. It helps that I bought them from a reputable used dealership, and they do a great job mechanically on the cars. I'd definitelty recommend going Volvo (used, pre-Ford Volvo)if you want a good, reliable Euro-car. I've missed oil changes and regular services with no problems. Those engines can take a beating and keep going. I've got 156,000 miles on the one I'm running now, and it's still a monster. I had 189,000 miles on the old Volvo wagon that I owned previous to this one. The garage that use bought it from me, refurbed it and resold it. It's still on the road today.

[northzax]

38. I grew up on Volvos

but since Ford took over and the price went up with quality going down, my whole family has gone over to Subarus. I have one, my dad and stepmom have three, and my mom has one. all anyone needs.

[midnight armadillo]

45. Sludge is a problem w/ a lot of companies

Dodge had a problem in its Durango a few years ago, Toyota produced the V6 'Sludgemonster' about two years ago, now VW & Saab. My personal, not-terribly-informed opinion is that it's due to pushing emissions design past the point of the typical consumer's willingness to do routine maintenance. I plan on taking my 2001 saab to 300k miles, so I'm v. careful to keep on top of things.

Volvo has some good engines, and some trouble-prone ones. Their older non-turbo 4 cyls are pretty rugged, and of course there's that 2 million mile Volvo. Saab's been using their 2.3L 4 since 1990 or so, and only had sludge trouble in the 1999-2001 model years. On the balance though, the Japanese top 3 (Toyota, Honda, Subaru) tend to be less trouble-prone in every regard than the Euro cars.

Of course, they don't drive like the Euro ones either, and the Saab 9-5 makes a kick-butt station wagon. I smile every time that turbo kicks in when I get to drive it (it's my wife's car). Safer than that OTHER Swedish brand, too ;-)

[jandrok]

50. I've typically run the 4-cylinder engines.

Although right now I'm driving a 5-cylinder, the 850 GLE. I had the 16-valve 4 in my old wagon, and it ran great, although it was not one of Volvo's more popular engines (mostly because of the difficulty getting to the timing belt).

I've never had any sludge issues. Actually more the opposite with some small oil leaks. The flame traps and gasket heads can sometimes be problems with the older engines.

You're right about the service records of the Big Three Japacars. I know folks that have run Hondas into the ground. I'm happy with my Volvo's thus far, though. I'm on my third model, and I hope to keep it for another couple of years. It's paid for, and that's the BEST reason to keep it running.

[youspeakmylanguage]

20. I hate to say it, but...

I'm not in any way saying that it was wrong for you to defend yourself against the misogyny, but pissing off a mechanic or a shop manager is one of the quickest ways I know to get screwed out of a LOT of money. I worked in a business with an autoshop in college and ALL of the mechanics I knew had no qualms about severely ripping a customer off if they thought the person insulted them in some way, was stuck up or thought they were the expert on what was wrong.

Get a second opinion and even if it violates your principles, kiss the ass of the next mechanic. See if the diagnosis is different.

I don't like kissing anyone's ass, but I go out of my way to be polite and friendly to food handlers, mechanics, waiters/waitresses, and private security personnel, even if they don't deserve it or go out of their way to be jerks. It makes life easier in the long run.

[complain jane]

21. Um.....

I know this. I waitressed for ten years.

The misogynist asked me if any of the "men" at my job checked my oil. I informed him I can do it myself and that it was fine.

If that's "offending" him, he needs to get a thicker skin. No mechanic I've ever dealt with has been so stupid as to speak that way. If that's going to cost me five grand he can expect to hear from my lawyer.

[youspeakmylanguage]

25. Like I said, I'm on your side here...

...but it is entirely plausible that he's attempting to rip you off because you stood up to him.

[NewJeffCT]

42. agreed

You never know what is going to piss somebody off, and him getting upset because you said that you could check your oil yourself is likely something you could never prove in court.

Definitely get a 2nd opinion, though. And, do not tell the 2nd VW dealer about the 1st diagnosis.

[youspeakmylanguage]

47. Actually...

I would go to an independent garage first, one that is highly-recommended by friends or family.

I don't know this for sure, but I would think it is very, very likely that the various VW dealerships in your area use the same computer database to track service and repair records. I could be wrong, but it never hurts to get a completely unbiased opinion.

[Samurai_Writer]

24. Sorry to hear about your car problems

I have a 1997 VW Jetta GT (it has a 2.0 L 4-cylinder and 5-speed manual tranny), and have never had any problems with it (knock on wood). It's got 112,000 miles on it and still drives great. I hope you can get the engine replaced without it costing you. I think that's disgusting! The car is only 3 years old and they are blaming you for the broken engine? That's ridiculous.

Peace,
Bella

[gulfcoastliberal]

26. Return the hunk of shit and get a Toyota or Hyundai

Or a Nissan... anything but those paper mache VWs.

[complain jane]

36. Hyundai good, yes?

Need to start looking for cheap car when this lease on insanity expires.

[gulfcoastliberal]

43. Very good, per Consumer Reports

About as good as a Toyota, which is the gold standard. Not to mentione they have awesome warranties and aren't very expensive compared to the Toyota's. Good luck!!

[Debbi801]

28. What happens for people who change the oil themselves?

Is that not allowed on a lease vehicle? There wouldn't be any receipts in that case.

:shrug:

[complain jane]

35. Oh sure, it's allowed. Just doesn't hold up to support the drive train

warranty if the thing blows. That's all.

[northzax]

41. I used to change the oil myself

but it's actually cheaper to do it at the local garage, they use it as a loss leader.

[jswordy]

29. One more reason leasing sucks. n//t

[MadHound]

44. What a load of horseshit.

First off, missing a couple of oil changes will not kill an engine. There are a fair number of things that can cause a loss of oil pressure. Your oil pump could be shot, oil pump screen clogged, oil pump gasket, or even head gasket could have sprung a leak, the wiring to the light could be shorting out. These and a few other things could cause the light to go on.

I would take this to another mechanic, and have a range of tests done, everything from a compression test to an electrical diagnoses. I'll be willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that the problem is something way more minor than the need to get a new engine. This guy is doing what oh so many mechanics do, trying to take a female client for a ride.

Get a second opinion, and then go back to this asshole dealer and throw it in his face, along with the promise of notifying boss and VW America.

[DemNoir]

46. Don't take a VW dealers word for anything

Since you explained that the oil light went on during acceleration and not when you resatrted it and was driving slow, It really points to the turbo as the problem. It kicks in during a hard acceleration.

This could be something as simple as a bad sensor.

VW has a problem with dealers, many are very dishonest. You really need to have it looked at by someone you can trust.

[movie_girl99]

51. i am on my 3rd vw lease in 6 years

they are fabulous cars but i make it a point to trade them in before the warranty is up. My family are big VW fans. My niece, step-dad, mom and sister in law all drive them. Great cars but so EXPENSIVE to maintain. My niece just dropped $750 on her '02 Jetta TDI. The Serpentine belt and alternator went out.