you know men really do have MUCH better self esteem than women

[La Lioness Priyanka]

so i am on friendster and myspace...and the messages i get from men are always so very surprising to me...the men are almost always much older, overweight, unattractive, inarticulate, barely literate and yet they do not hesitate at all to say that if i dont go out with them it will be a lost oppurtunity..yet when beautiful women approach me on those sites they are so much more apologetic and modest...


i dont get it.

[redqueen]

1. No, really?!

:rofl:


on edit: sorry... hehe... didn't mean to sound flippant... it's just that I've noticed this for so long. I'm not sure if it's genuine, though. You know, contrasted with the fragile ego thing, it's hard to square up.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

3. seriously...i mean i dont want to sound arrogant

but you know when someone is FAR more attractive/qualified than you are..and yet you still assume you are gods gift to me..why?

[redqueen]

11. I dunno.

But damned if lots of guys think they're just a hair's breath from bein the ideal man.

:shrug:

[undeterred]

35. I met someone thru a personal ad - he said "you won't be disappointed"

with regard to his looks. But I was totally disappointed, much more so than I would have been if he'd said nothing at all!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

38. rofl

:rofl:

hillarious!

[gmoney]

36. was going to respond

but have thought better of it...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

40. feel free to respond...

[gmoney]

51. mmmm....

not at this juncture. wouldn't be prudent.

[GOPisEvil]

2. I'm a guy and I don't get it.

My self-esteem is subterranean at times.

[Debi]

13. We've trained you well n/t

[GOPisEvil]

23. Well, knock it off!

:P

:spank:

[Left Is Write]

20. I wish it weren't.

You're a great guy.

[GOPisEvil]

22. Thanks. That's really nice of you to say.

:blush:

[Sugar Smack]

47. He really is.

I've met him in person and I have to say that he is funny, cute, charming, and very smart. If I weren't with someone else I'd definitely be attracted to him.

[GOPisEvil]

53. That's so nice of you to say.

:blush:

If this doesn't stop I might turn into an egomaniac. :evilgrin:

[Sugar Smack]

56. What can I say? You're a man of quality,

You have class. You're one of the reasons I came back to CH loaded with confidence, mayhem and the skill to speak my mind- you regarded me as a human being who was worthy of speaking aloud and being heard. You and I interacted in the most affectionate, civil ways possible. In other words, :yourock:

Quality is what I see in you.

[GOPisEvil]

59. Wow - I was just being me.

We did have a really nice time in DC, didn't we? I enjoyed that a lot. That trip will be hard to top.

:yourock:

[skygazer]

4. Well, they kind of have to

I wouldn't want to be a man. Even in our supposedly "enlightened" society, men still bear most of the responsibility for making the first move, asking women out, asking for phone numbers, approaching women, etc. They must get shot down a hundred times for ever success. You'd have to have an ironclad ego to be able to sustain that.

No way - I couldn't take it. I got rejected once and it nearly destroyed me, I was so mortified. Nope, wouldn't want to be a guy.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

6. well yes my point is....you should recognize when someone is out

of your league...really! i do... so i dont understand why men dont

[GOPisEvil]

8. I have the opposite problem.

I think too many women are out of my league.

Sigh...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

9. i am sorry hon... i think the nice men have self esteem like women

and the crappy ones have great self esteem

[sendero]

61. I think there..

.... is no correllation whatsoever. The ones who are good but have low self-esteem never approached you at all, so how would you know.

Studies show that confidence and capability have almost no correllation in human beings. There are a boatload of people in the workplace who cannot find their ass with both hands, who fail at every project and then move on, who think they are just great. In fact, that describes our President perfectly.

So rethink your generalization :)

[Jamastiene]

26. Because you think that way,

it actually means you are out of their league. You have the makings of a good man thinking that way. Worshipping women is the first step toward manhood. All the rest are missing out on a lot of wonderful feelings.

[William Bloode]

18. There is no such thing as "outta your league"

Never! A confident man scores 10x's more than a modest man, and it makes up for a lot. A smart man learns this early on if life. He may infact know in his mind he is no great prize, but will never let the facade drop. Why not? A poor, fat, confident man will out score a rich, good looking man who lacks the image of self confidence.

I am a broke down 38yr old ex-con with little to offer any woman other than a my giant disability check(hehehehehe).Yet i still get regular offers from attractive ladies from 19-25. I talk a lotta shit, and it gets results.

[gmoney]

42. "out of your league" ?

That's not very DU now, is it?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

45. it may not be politically correct

but i think its true

[gmoney]

63. So you support elitism?

Are you honestly supporting "looksism" and "fatism" and "ageism"?

Isn't that just a step from supporting racism and sexism?

I'm not implying that we all can't have our personal tastes and preferences, but to imply that "some people should just know their place" is about as close to elitism as you can get.

Earlier in the thread, you said "you know when someone is FAR more attractive/qualified than you are" -- are you equating attractive with qualified? You support hiring one person over another for an office job because one person is better looking, even if that person is less qualified?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

64. no what i am saying is if someone is both those things

more attractive and more qualified and 20 years younger they may not want to date you...thats all.

on edit: lookism and ageism in ones personal life is perfectly acceptable to me

[gmoney]

69. personal choice is fine...

...for you not to choose to date someone because of their appearance, age, race, religion, political affiliation, shoe size, or favorite breakfast cereal is just fine.

I can say I only will date thin blondes with movie star features, but can I say that everyone else should be prevented from talking to me?

But for you to say that the people that don't fit your tastes are inferior and shouldn't be allowed to interact with "their betters" and should keep to themselves -- frankly, it stinks.

There's enough inferiority, shame, self-doubt and fear in this world. Why are you adding to it?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

73. read the original post

thats not what i said

i said if i dont respond because of certain reasons...dont act as though its a huge lost opportunity for me

that i was contrasting how women interact with me on the same websites...

[tigereye]

54. ya know, I think it's some kind of biological imperative

they have to be confident so they can pass on those genes... ;)

(I am only partially kidding.) I think in some cases females have more luxury to be more selective. Sorry to sound like a sociobiologist!

The self-esteem thing is confusing though. Most of the women I know, despite being incredibly talented and many with advanced degrees, are not egomaniacs and are often very self-deprecating...

[YellowRubberDuckie]

78. Well, sometimes people have really great personalities...

And once you get to know them they become more attractive or uglier if they are nasty and ugly inside. Good God, attractive is relative, and now that I have gotten to know you a little better, my point is proven...
Duckie

[La Lioness Priyanka]

82. again you seem to point where i say

my issue is more why are you throwing a shit fit cos i wont date someone my dads age...its the shit fit that i have issues with...not the approaching me in the first place thing.

[tjdee]

5. Thank pop culture for that--women are held to higher standards.

There has been at least one "real" study on this--men are much more likely to think they're better looking, smarter, and funnier than they really are. Women, the exact opposite.

I think part of the reason is because women feel pressure to look like Felicity Huffman, Teri Hatcher, Jessica Simpson, etc. etc. etc. Everywhere women look, they are shown what "good looking" is supposed to look like. Nice hair, nice clothes, etc.

Men get to look like John Popper, Will Ferrell (who I loovvvvee), and George Bush. If he doesn't think he looks like George Clooney, he thinks he's as funny as Jon Stewart.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

7. i do

have you seen king of queens? now how is that a normal lookign couple?

[tjdee]

10. LOL, perfect example. The worst examples of this are in commercials.

Some dumpy middle aged guy is always married to a reasonably good looking chick (of his age or younger).

But, women aren't as visual as men. So even though you're amazed at these dumpy guys thinking you'd be interested, you know somewhere some woman was souping up their ego.

[tigereye]

57. nice insight as usual, tj

[gmoney]

67. women make most of the household buying decisions

If you only ever watched TV commercials, you'd think nobody fat, ugly or over 30 ever bought toothpaste or household cleaner. How much Tide do you think they'd sell if the woman in the ad was dumpy and old-looking? Women want to identify with someone who is intelligent, highly attractive, and youthful, and if they can have a laugh at the cost of their own dumpy sub-human husband, so much the better.

It's safe to belittle men in this way... to do the opposite would raise cries of bloody murder and massive boycotts. girlcotts. whatever...

[lakemonster11]

12. Once on Will and Grace,

Jack and Karen spent a few minutes flipping through channels, giving each show a ten-second chance to catch their attention and saying, "Fat man, skinny wife...fat man, skinny wife...fat man, skinny wife...ugly man, skinny wife...fat man, skinny wife..."

I agree with you. I usually feel like the guys my girlfriends go out with are way beneath them, at least physically (of course, if they make up for it by being funny, intelligent, and nice, it's all good). The last guy my best friend went out with was smart and nice enough, but he never bathed (and he had a physical labor sort of job, so he really needed to). He was the dirtiest person I've ever known. His feet and hands were just covered with grime.

Of course, my current SO apparently liked me for months and I had no idea, probably because I thought he was too cute---it never occurred to me that he liked me, even though it was obvious to my friends. There goes that poor female self-esteem again.

:shrug:

[lakemonster11]

15. Ha, replying to my own post (I just wanted to add something)

Of course, I have a bunch of male friends who don't seem to think that they're attractive, when they are.

They don't look like models (who does?), but they are cute and definitely charming.

One of my best male friends could have gone out with any girl at our college (including me :)). He was one of those guys whose name would come up whenever a bunch of girls got together that everyone would giggle over. He had no idea, and still doesn't really seem to believe me.

[hippywife]

79. I'm an avid people watcher.

If I'm forced to sit in a high traffic public area, I will sit and watch people intently. I have noticed there are more couples that fit that mold than the opposite.

[CanuckAmok]

39. While you're reading..."The Adonis Complex"

No, not all men have superior self-esteem.

In fact, the increasing societal value on looks and youth has had the effect of diminishing mens' esteem, as well.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

41. i agree to a certain extent with you

i still think that most studies show that men tend to think of themselves more positively than women do...its a matter of not internalizing failure

[CanuckAmok]

49. um, okay.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

52. i studied sociology and psychology

so i do know a lot about studies done on gender

[McKenzie]

14. I am possibly the world's most dysfunctional man

and I have no illusions over my attraction to the opposite sex...nowt, nil, zero, zilch.

Self flagellation over...time to post my tattoos.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

16. I'm a guy with no self-esteem whatsoever.

Hope that helps.

[jpgray]

17. Yeah! And women hate nice guys and like jerks!

Oh wait, that's completely wrong. I must have been caught up in the spirit of the thread--steady as she (or he) goes! :patriot:

[gmoney]

44. Let's not resurrect that one (n/t)

[CanuckAmok]

19. You'd have to poll a huge percentage of the population to legitimise...

...that claim.

You know, you'd have to post your photo every chance you get, constantly talk about your sexual triumphs and failures, and interact intimately with many, many people before you knew for sure.

[jpgray]

21. Let's fuck, what do you say?

I'm superlatively literate, svelte, and modest as a mediocre indie band mouse. :loveya:

[tigereye]

58. he he

:rofl:

[Oeditpus Rex]

24. This isn't self-esteem

It's catapulting the propaganda inward.

Genuine self-esteem doesn't blatantly promote itself.

[pdx_prog]

25. Have you seen Shallow Hal?

Unfortunately this is the way most guys are. In the end it's the law of the universe that says "you get what you put out". We are all like tuning forks and attract like people on our same frequency.....most people haven't learned yet...:)

[HEyHEY]

27. So you're saying overwieght, bald men should feel like shit?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

28. nope

but i dont think they should go all crazy about horrible i am cos i didnt respond to their messages ..thats it...

[HEyHEY]

29. So if a handsome, erudite man disses you it's okay

[La Lioness Priyanka]

32. i think you are intentionally splitting hairs here

if i dont respond to an anonymous stranger 20 years older to me...who on top of the age thing is also not attractive and cant seem to write a proper sentence...its ok.

thats all.

[Oeditpus Rex]

30. I just got a MySpace thingie

a couple weeks ago.

If you were my friend, Pri, I'd say all sorts o' nice things to ya. :hug:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

34. thanks

:)

[RetroLounge]

31. I don't know, having never used those sites

But I am older than you, not overweight, attractive (so I've been told), articulate, educated with an advanced degree and usually self-confident. When a woman turned me down for a date, I just moved on.

I don't think it's self-esteem for these guys, but maybe fear?

RL

[La Lioness Priyanka]

33. quite possible...and generally being a jerk.

[RetroLounge]

37. Yeah, fearful, resentful guys tend to be jerks.

RL

[UncleSepp]

43. Men and women deal with low self esteem differently

Men are taught to cover up their self-doubt. Women are taught to display it. Vulnerability in a woman is supposed to be attractive, and in a man, unattractive.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

46. you are right

[Beware the Beast Man]

48. How open-minded of you.

And people say only men are pigs. :eyes:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

50. whatever

if i had posted.... i am dating some one 20 years elder to me, with little education, overweight and unattractive...i think you would have told me i could do better...as would all my friends...cos then you would have said i have low self esteem to think i should date him

as it turns out i know i can..and i dont see why i have to apologize for this

[Beware the Beast Man]

55. Sorry, but I am in the "personality is everything" school of thought.

Maybe it's because I am an older, overweight, unattractive man, or something....

And personally, I couldn't care less who you go out with- my word doesn't mean squat, and, from all the pining you have done around here in the last few weeks, I'd say your self-esteem is at a low ebb to begin with. Don't let the ugly, fat bald guys get you down, kiddo.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

65. no my self esteem is still doing fine

its just that my life is not doing so fine...i think these are seperate things...

[tigereye]

60. well OTOH,

sometimes cute guys do grow up to be somewhat overweight males, and those of us married to them still love them, because we didn't just marry them for their looks. I think you have to love the whole person and that buffers you from the attacks of age, to some extent.

Hell, I was never a hottie, more of a very average looking brainiac, but I feel like I have grown into myself and my attractiveness is based on the complexity I have instead. :)

[Orsino]

77. No, you need not apologize.

However, neither should all those men who are chasing you.

[Beware the Beast Man]

83. What??? And throw off the balance of the courting class system?

:P

[La Lioness Priyanka]

84. again chasing me is not really the issue

its getting mad when i dont respond thats the issue...

[Kenroy]

62. well

I hope you find a way to remain forever young and don't tend toward putting on weight. It would suck to have to drop back down to the minors.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

66. and when i do get older i will date older men/women

i will leave the young 20 somethings to find mates of their own age.

[Kenroy]

68. Good

at least you realize you'll still be dating when you're older.

[gmoney]

70. Oh, snap! (n/t)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

71. whether i am not is not the point...

but person i am with will be not in their 20's ...that i can assure you

[Orsino]

72. It's not self-esteem.

It's the sex drive that pushes us to chase women. We are simply the more aggressive sex--generally.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

75. chasing is fine

getting all upset when there are very many good reasons why i may not want to pursue a date with said somebody is less fine.

[xmas74]

74. I see you've been flamed on here.

I'll back you up in a different way.
When I was 18 it wasn't uncommon to have men in their fifties hitting on me (actually, it happened quite often). When you looked at it from a distance, we had absolutely nothing in common yet it was still considered acceptable. It made me uncomfortable to have someone who was older than my father hitting on me. Now that I am 30 people would gawk and make rude comments if I hit on a 20 year old.
I think what you are trying to say is why is it still acceptable for older men to pursue a young woman? There are plenty of single women out there and many are closer to their own age. They seem to bypass those women and go directly for what society dictates to be the "ideal"-young, in shape and pleasing to the eye. When you say that you are not interested, they diss you like you've lost something in not becoming more intimate w/ them(on any level). And some do not take no for an answer.
You're still pretty young. I don't blame you if you want someone closer to your age. Chances are someone closer to your age would be someone you would have more in common with and share similar experiences and ideas(not always, but many times this is true). And you are well educated. I can understand you wanting to find someone who is also well educated(and we both know that it doesn't have to come from a classroom.)
I stay away from dating sites and such anymore. I've had similar problems(not the appearance but the overall attitude of the men on them). If you can find someone on one more power to you.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

76. thank you

and i do think if you are my dads age and a lot of these men are..there is something wrong with society in general where you thnk that persistently asking me out on a date is fine.

[xmas74]

80. That I can understand.

There is a comfort level for both sides that needs to be respected. I joke about it often but I really don't plan on dating much younger men(they just don't "turn me on"). And I don't understand why there is an entire group of men out there who will only allow themselves to be attracted to much younger women(unless they are trying to play out a Hefner fantasy).
I knew what you were saying-it just came out wrong.

[Zuni]

81. I am glad you feel so darn highly of yourself

[southlandshari]

85. Ok, ok, break it up, everyone.

Everybody step away from the thread and take a deep breath. Lower your voices and think nice thoughts.

You all are scaring the children!