Bio-diesel anyone heard of it? It`s for real, here and now.

[oscarguy]

I am amazed that so few people are aware of the fact that cars, trucks and whatever can and are being powered by vegetable oils such as : soy and corn oils and that these oils are now competitively priced with fossil fuels. American farmers can produce these fuels at a comparable price with traditional fossil fuels. It seems a win win for all Americans. Why are we not hearing more about it?......Oscar

[HEyHEY]

1. There's busses in Vancouver using it now

[CanuckAmok]

9. Yeah, and UVic is doing a long-term study; they're selling BioD @ $0.40/L

Yeah, these UVic engineers will keep you stocked with BioDiesel for $0.40 per litre if you participate in their study; basically all you need is a diesel vehicle and a willingness to keep a logbook and go to the lab once a month for emissions testing.

http://www.vibesproject.ca/

[KitchenWitch]

2. Welcome to DU

How difficult is it to convert a gas burning car to a biodiesel one? How expensive?

[oscarguy]

4. You have to have a diesel engine to use these fuels.

Like I said you do have to have a diesel engine to use these fuels. Please consider that with your next automobile purchase. You will in my opinion save a lot of money as the price of dwindling fossil fuels can only rise. ....Oscar

[KitchenWitch]

5. That is what I thought

I currently drive a car that is classified as an FFV (flexible fuel vehicle) I can fill it up with regular unleaded gasoline, or E-85 (85% ethanol 15% gasoline). I choose to fill up with E-85 whenever I find it available (there is a station just a mile from where I live which carries it.)

I cannot always find it when I am road tripping though.

[oscarguy]

6. Hello, I am sorry but a non-diesel engine cannot operate...

with these fuels. It is a matter of the physics involved. Simply stated these fuels require a higher combustion temperature that is achieved by a higher compression of the fuels involved in a diesel engine. A normal gasoline engine cannot do this. ...Oscar

[KitchenWitch]

7. I already understood that

I was just saying that I drive a vehicle that can take both ethanol and regular gasoline...

[oscarguy]

8. I am freezing my blank off here in central N.Y. Re:green wood

I meant no insult. I am learning the hard way the difference between green or fresh cut fire wood and seasoned. I never heated with wood before. ...Oscar

[jobycom]

17. KW, there is no conversion required to run a diesel on biodiesel, but

there are some problems with much older engines, as theoretically some of the rubber seals in fuel pumps and lines can deteriorate. Some bio users claim this isn't really a problem. There is a further minor problem with older diesels, because biodiesel is a solvent. Older diesels have built-up carbon and junk deposits, and bio cleans them out, which makes you have to replace the fuel filter a couple of times when you first start using it.

There is another way to use vegetable oils to run your diesel. You can run most diesel engines off straight veggie oil, but this requires a conversion. You must start the engine on regular diesel (called dino diesel :-) ) then switch tanks to veggie oil. You can even run the engine off waste vegetable oil (WVO), but it is more difficult. You have to filter the WVO carefully, and you have to heat your tank or your fuel pump to melt the trans fats in the WVO before it can be used. If you don't, it will clog the engine. You can buy conversion kits for $600 bucks or so from several sources.

Both methods have minor drawbacks. Biodiesel requires a careful chemical balance, or it will begin to create plaque on your engine parts, which causes the engine to slowly (over a few years) die. Good commercial grade stuff should have the right balance, and you can achieve it yourself, but it's hard. SVO or WVO has a similar problem, and there is debate on how much this affects the life of your car. We're talking about years, though, not months, for the negative effects to happen.

Bio diesel and veggie oil have been used as fuels since the 70s, so this isn't in the experimental stage. There are some commercial distributors (Willie Nelson owns one), but probably more of it is homemade.

One note--Neither veggie oil or biodiesel is completely fossil free. Veggie oil requires the engine to be warmed up on diesel, and if you make mostly short trips, you will burn as much or more diesel as veggie oil. On longer trips you won't. Biodiesel requires either methanol or ethanol in the making. Ethanol is damned unforgiving and difficult to use, so most people use methanol, which is made from fossil oil. A biodiesel batch requires about 4 gallons of methanol for every 20 gallons of veggie oil. Methanol and ethanol can be made from non-fossil sources, though, and if the nation does put an emphasis on plant-based fuels one day, mass production of ethanol will no doubt take away these problems.

How's that for a quick summary?

[KitchenWitch]

21. Thanks jobycom!

Very good!

[NMMNG]

3. I'd love to use it, but there are no stations in my area that offer it

:-(

[CanuckAmok]

10. yeah, but you can make it yourself.

Basically the process is to add alcohol and lye to waste oils (vegetable oil, for example).

You can distill the ethanol yourself, collect the oil from McD's for free, and you can either buy the lye (potassium hydroxide), or distill it yourself. The by-product of the process is a very good fertiliser, by the way.

The alcohol separates the glycerine from the oil, making it less viscous. The glycerine sinks to the bottom and can be discarded or used to make soap (or explosives!).

Check this out:

http://www.wiseenergy.ca/

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#process

[KitchenWitch]

11. I thought lye was sodium hydroxide?

[CanuckAmok]

12. "Lye" is/was a trade-name.

It can either be sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide.

Apparently, the biodiesel manufacturing process has a higher success rate using the potassium hydroxide lye, as opposed to the sodium hydroxide lye. I don't know whay that is.

Plus with the potassium lye, you get the bonus fertiliser by-product that you don't get with the sodium lye.

I guess the sodium-based lye is easer to find, but if you're going to make your own biodiesel on a regular basis, you'll probably be buying your ingredients from a chemical distributor, not a supermarket, so you'll have a better selection of options.

[CanuckAmok]

13. Not just biodiesel, but "SVO".

"SVO" stands for "straight vegetable oil".

There are kits on the market in Germany which convert conventional diesel engines to run on 100% vegetable oil.

The process involves two gas tanks; one is smaller, and uses conventional diesel or biodiesel to start the vehicle, and run the heater for tank #2, which contains ... nothing but vegetable oil. Veg oil must be pre-heated to be a vialble combustive, so it's warmed-up by a small heater in the fuel tank.

The engine needs beefier fuel injectors to handle the increased viscosity of the veg oil, but they're included in the kit.

My next vehicle will be a diesel Toyota Land Cruiser, and I plan on experimenting with bio fuels.

[Idylle Moon Dancer]

15. kits on the market on this side, too

greasecar.com for one.

[CanuckAmok]

19. cool! n/t

[LeftyMom]

14. I've thought about it

but I plan on getting a van when the current vehicle gives up and diesel vans with the safety features I want are hard to find.

[Deja Q]

16. Articles have been written about running out of space for food crops...

Hmmm, eat or be able to drive a metal monstrosity that pollutes our planet to New Jersey and back...

Which should we choose?

Find another energy source. :)

Still, if my :tinfoilhat: theory is right, none of us need bother about it much longer.

[Gold Metal Flake]

18. It's not a new topic here.

The lounge has seen my conversion, but I present it again for you. It's WVO, not biodiesel. More conversion parts, less processing parts.

http://www.freewebs.com/vegtruck/

[Spider Jerusalem]

20. Not an effective solution, unfortunately.

The fertilisers used on the crops that produce the oilseed stock are sourced from natural gas; the pesticides used on the crops are sourced from petroleum; the harvesting equipment, at least currently, runs on petro-diesel or gasoline. And taking into account the amount of acreage required, were we to convert ALL of the fallow farmland in the US to production of oilseed, we could replace, at MOST, about ten percent of the energy demand currently met by petro-fuels.

But of course Americans are too attached to their automobiles to give them up without struggle, so people like to delude themselves into thinking that this represents a feasible solution to the problem of oil depletion and increasing oil costs.