I think we need to have a serious discussion about country and western

[Benfea]

Post here if you agree that country and western "music" is one of the most horrible asthetic atrocities in human histories. Rednecks should stop imitating blues musicians and just go back to shooting possums and throwing empty beer cans at their children.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

1. ...

:rofl:

Stereotypical, but startlingly funny.

"Rednecks should stop imitating blues musicians and just go back to shooting possums and throwing empty beer cans at their children."

:rofl:

[Benfea]

8. I freely admit I'm a bit bigoted against rednecks...

…from living in the south for 4 years.

[jpgray]

2. Without it, you have no Woody Guthrie, Leadbelly or Bob Dylan.

Which would be pretty lousy.

[Benfea]

7. Woody = folk, Leadbelly = blues, Dylan = folk/rock -NT

[elshiva]

10. Woody Guthrie listened to Jimmy Rodgers and

imitated him early on.

[Benfea]

13. Out of all that, that's the best argument you can muster?

My position seems pretty solid then. Out of all you previously stated, that's a pretty tenuous link.

[elshiva]

16. I don't have an argument. There's no need for argument.

There's no argument at all.

[mitchum]

21. Howlin'Wolf's two favorite singers were Jimmie Rogers and Son House

Leading us to the musical question: which came first? The little red rooster or the egg?

[jpgray]

34. Woody and Leadbelly were tremendously influenced by c/w

The Carter family guitar style is completely lifted by Guthrie and adapted into his own, and we know where Dylan's came from. Not to mention the hundreds of country/western songs covered by Woody and Leadbelly, and the c/w melodies each adapted into their own respective original tunes.

[Rabrrrrrr]

3. That's another genre that's gone to pure shit.

It used to at least have some performers with integrity, who knew what they were singing about, and who were singing from their hearts and their experience.

But like any genre of music since recording technology was developed, the real artists have been shunned in favor of those that can engineered and designed properly to sell records.

Johnny Cash, Loretta Lynn, Roy Clark, Dolly Parton, Mel Tillis, Hank Williams, etc. <-- not a single one of them would stand a chance in hell of getting a recording contract or air time today.

Now it's all shit like that faith hill whore and her tim mcgraw (or whatever his fyucking name is; had to watch them on Oprah at my sister's the other day) lackluster piece of shit husband and Garth Brooks and Toby Keith and other shitknocking "creations" of the corporations.

[elshiva]

9. The Carter Family! Jimmy Rogers! They told it like it was!

[democracyindanger]

15. Hey, now--you gotta give McGraw credit

After all, he told the Brazilian joke in an interview.

[tuvor]

36. Oh, like popular Rock is any better.

Either it's cyclical or you're looking in the wrong place.

My advice would be to wait a while or to look harder.

[Rabrrrrrr]

39. Hence my saying **another** genre that's gone to shit

Pop Rock is even worse, especially in terms of corporations going out and looking for "musicians" - meaning literally looking. They look at a person's face and body, and then say "We can make a pop star out of that".

[Spider Jerusalem]

4. Actually, it's not quite "imitating blues musicians"...

it's an evolution of traditional Scots-Irish musical forms with different instrumentation (banjo and guitar, for instance, instead of mandolin)...and those musical forms being prevalent among poor Southern whites of mostly Scots-Irish stock at the turn of the century, they naturally influenced the blues to some extent. And without country we wouldn't have bluegrass, or folk, or rock & roll (which evolved from country-influenced rockabilly and electric blues)...you can't just dismiss a musical genre because you don't like it.

(How's that for serious?)

[Benfea]

12. Origin/schmorigin.

Country and western simply wouldn't be where it is today without country musicians ripping off their betters (blues musicians) on a pretty staggering scale. Without that, it wouldn't be country and western, it would be Scottish/Irish folk music (which come to think of it, might be a huge improvement if they weren't such lousy musicians).

[Spider Jerusalem]

19. Pretty debatable...

and most music wouldn't be what it is today had musicians not been influenced by those who came before them (regardless of genre boundaries). It's kind of ignorant to call that sort if influence mere "ripping off", because it's worked both ways (without the influence of that Scots-Irish music, would the "country blues" of Robert Johnson have been what it was?). And you can't make objective judgements on matters of subjective taste, anyway...was Muddy Waters a better songwriter than Johnny Cash, or Hank Williams (Senior, not Junior)? Is Chet Atkins a better guitarist than Buddy Guy? Depends on where your preferences lie.

[hickman1937]

20. They didn't ripp off any "betters".

They made it up as they went along. I am so sick of revisionist history. How the hell would pre-radio mountain people be stealing from blues musicians?

[Zomby Woof]

17. And Miles Davis loved Willie Nelson

Considered him his favorite singer, because of the way he could sing a half-beat back.

Always more to it than meets the eye. Jimmie Rodgers, The Carter Family... real pioneers of a once vital and proud genre.

[Spider Jerusalem]

22. And Willie was very much influenced by jazz...

along with Tejano/Mexican/Spanish guitar music, and blues, et cetera...it's facile to call the incorporation of elements of different styles into one's own work to create something that's new and different "ripping off", IMO, because without it, music as an art form wouldn't evolve at all.

[mitchum]

23. Miles was also blown away by Nelson's approach to his guitar solos...

the lyricism and restraint. He recognized a kindred spirit in the lyricism and restraint.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

38. Miles even had a song named after Willie.

In fact, continuing the jazz-country trend even further, Duane Allman (in the liner notes for Kind of Blue) said Miles and KOB was a big influence on him.

[FuzzySlippers]

5. Ummm.....I don't care for it myself.

Although I'd never dare go as far as you have bashing it on a public message board.

:rofl:

[RPM]

6. I like both kinds of music...

country and western...

[obxhead]

11. but then they wouldn't get their dog back....

:popcorn:

[LSK]

14. damn, tell us how you really feel...

The only problem I have with it is that 95% of them are tools for the right wing.

[Benfea]

41. It's the soundtrack of evil for our times. -NT

[mitchum]

18. No, rednecks should go back to imitating blues musicians...

that's how one arrived at quality country music such as Williams, Nelson, Jones, etc...
The problem is that today's suburban rednecks are imitaing the lamest pop imaginable.

[Common Sense Party]

29. Well said. I like the good ol' country stuff (and I'm lucky to have

a local station that actually plays the old stuff).

But the twangy pop drivel that oozes out of the Corporate Nashville money-making machine today is NOT music.

[Redstone]

24. No, we don't.

Redstone

[ForrestGump]

27. Don't worry. The thread title,

"I think we need to have a serious discussion about country and western" was misleading. This isn't that...at least, not in the original post or in any of the poster's follow-ups.

[Redstone]

30. Oh, I knew it was a copycat. Just throwing my 2 cents in.

Redstone

[ForrestGump]

33. Bad investment

:D







Oh...shewt! Dagnabbit.

I almost got me one of them kids knocked off his bike...beaned him full on with a can of sauerkraut, but he was wearing a damned helmet.

[ForrestGump]

25. You're joking, right?

Good one. :D

On the offchance that you're not, you've just revealed an utterly incomprehensible lack of even the most basic knowledge of popular musical forms (leaving aside the can-chucking redneck archetype you invoke). Chuck Berry was a country musician, pretty much, as was Ray Charles, and rock 'n' roll is built from both traditonally black and traditionally white musical traditions. Country and blues also, for example, have been leaching into each other for a good long time now.

You write that Dylan was a product of folk and rock, for example: where the hell do you think folk came from if not the same source as country and associated genres? And rock 'n' roll began as a fusion of country and blues, with healthy doses of black and white gospel music....Elvis Presley, for sure, mixed all that and contemporary pop to contribute to a musical mix that leads directly from him to Dylan and pretty much everyone else, of any color, working in American music outside the jazz thing.

If I were you, I'd choose the "just joshin', folks, on a gratuitous copycat thread" option over the "I'm a clueless git who also likes to disparage entire socioeconomic groups and races" menu item...

[spacelady]

26. We got two kindsa music-- Country and Western! ala the Blues Bros.

What more can you say? Just let 'em stay in their cages.
We don't have to listen to it.

[MrSlayer]

28. Agree completely.

Horrible drek.

[NMMNG]

31. While I despise Country music with a passion

I draw the line at disparaging those people who create/play it, and those who enjoy it. No doubt there are plenty of people who would find some of the music I listen to just as repulsive as I find Country, and I'd hate to have them classify me in a negative way just because of one type of music I listen to.

[WCGreen]

32. Lyle Lovett, Nanci Griffith, Tift Merritt, Lucinda Williams...

Slaid Cleaves... Wilco, Ryan Adams, Freakwater, Blanche, Waylon Jennings, Johnny Cash, Emily Lou Harris, Steve Earle, the Dixie Chicks, Dwight Yokum, The Jayhawks, Jimmie Gilmore... And many many more....

Some of the best, most inventive and heartfelt music is considered country....

What you are railing against is a form of pop music that is the haven of "artists" such as Tobie Kieth, Faith Twain...

Those are "Artists" too old for Pop Diva hood or Boy Band status....

[tuvor]

35. Bait 'n' switch. What's with the flip post?

I was looking forward to "a serious discussion about country and western," but it seems I was mistaken. Apparently even posting here is supposed to mean I agree with you. Wha'???

Descend from that ivory tower; there's good music in all genres. I'll bet the real problem is that you just don't care to look hard enough.

[ghostsofgiants]

37. Kind of ironic that my thread was the first "serious discussion" copycat..

And its whole purpose was to point out how stupid broad brush generalizations of musical genres are.

[Benfea]

42. Well...

The original post was meant to be unoriginal and not really serious. I never expected such a big shitstorm. Heh.

[Brewman_Jax]

40. It blows chunks

either a bunch of whining yodelers or trying to imitate top 40. Play it backwards, you get back the crap you were whining about in the first place.

[dbt]

43. Listen to the Real Deal at this link:

www.classiccountry1067.com/pages/newstreaming.html

Modern-day Nashville is a stench in the nostrils of the Goddess.