VEGETARIANS are you offended by carnivores?

[yvr girl]

Can you eat a meal with meat eaters?

[billyskank]

1. I am not offended

I eat meals with meat eaters all the time. All the rest of my family eat meat.

[yvr girl]

2. Why are you a vegetarian?

Health reasons? Religious? Just don't like meat?

[billyskank]

6. Religious reasons

Hare Krishnas don't eat meat.

[flvegan]

3. Offended? No. Can I eat with them? Absolutely.

I don't comment, nor do I try to convince them to eat differently.

[eyepaddle]

4. Hey you, ain't seen you in awhile

How's it going?

[flvegan]

5. Going good, going good

thanks. I'm around, but usually only at night. I expect that to change as I see just how much goofing off I can get away with at the new job.

You?

[eyepaddle]

8. Pretty much the same

I'm done with grad school now (except for the thesis) and am back (sigh) at work so my DU goof-off time has plunged.


Shucks. ;)

[flvegan]

10. Did you see this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x5207961

Thought of you immediately. Not for the ineptitude, but for the no-doubt shaking of the head and sighing.

[eyepaddle]

12. I did

I was gonna reply and then the phone rang. :shakes head:

A lot of folks learn that lesson posthumously.

However whitewater is a pretty safe sport--if you get training and use the right safety gear. I think a big part of taking a class is that you get honest (and accurate) about your limits.

[flvegan]

13. AND learn how to properly secure a couple 12 packs

right?

Class III with no lifejackets. I'm glad they lived to tell about it.

[eyepaddle]

16. LOL

I was eating a popsicle so typing was kinda slow. I was gonna say rafters need to have that beer properly stowed/lashed down. Otherwise, how will they still have any to give to us kayakers for rolling for them? :shrug:

C YA in a bit--I've got to go get ready for a paddling trip to Wisconsin's Wolf and Peshtigo rivers this weekend
Here's the Wolf (a section I have not yet paddled)
http://www.americanwhitewater.org/rivers/id/2316/

and the Pesh:
http://www.americanwhitewater.org/rivers/id/2305/


Sorry for thread jacking yvr--can you ever forgive us?

[xmas74]

33. I did the Wolf years ago.

I really enjoyed it. Hope you have a great time.

[unsavedtrash]

7. not offended and would usually cook the med. rare steak or other meat for

my ex for dinner. I can't eat it because of a hereditary thing that keeps me from properly digesting meat.

[faithnotgreed]

9. no not offended

i can and do eat with meat eaters since i am the only one in my family who chooses vegetarianism
my partner is mostly vegetarian but has started again eating meat because it feels healthiest

[NNadir]

11. It depends. Can I eat the meat eater?

I used to be a meat eater, so yes, I can eat with meat eaters. I really don't have much choice, do I?

After 30 years, some meat things gross me out though. Leg of lamb is especially bad; it smells like death, which of course, it is. It's a leg.

But look, it's a matter of personal choice.

[pink-o]

37. I too have been a veggie for 30 years!

Well, technically, 29 and 1/2 since I started in 1977 and never looked back. I don't mind eating with carnivores, but if they tease me, I tease them right back.

When I was first veggie I was more self-righteous and born-again about it, but I've come to the conclusion that humans really are adaptable to any food. It's just that in our unnatural lifestyle right now, a plant-based diet is healthier for the human who consumes it and the earth that brings it forth. Long ago when we were hunter-gatherers, I'm sure we ate whatever we could get our hands on, and the fact that our brains grew so big over time proves that we had a prime source of protein. But with factory farms, antibiotics in meat, hormones, et al, it's just not as easy to maintain one's health eating so high on the food chain anymore.

I used to believe because we're unable to kill prey with our bare hands or teeth (can you see an ancient human biting into the skin of a struggling wildebeast???) that we were meant to be veg. But I now think we were probably opportunistic meat eaters, like hyenas and vultures. We probably also ate rodents and insects. Now, there's a pleasant thought!

Bon Appetit!

[NNadir]

52. Your outlook sounds a lot like mine.

I stopped eating meat because I was living with people who didn't do it.

At first I couldn't imagine how one lived without hamburgers, but I had to admit, I could never look a cow in the eye and then kill it. It's not in me. So I had to face that my meat eating was shifting responsibility onto someone else in an "out of sight, out of mind" kind of way. I'm not comfortable with that.

I also used to be very preachy, but now it's just live and let live. My wife and I commiserate and whine to each other when we've just sat through a particularly meal with my in laws, but we don't say anything to the other people at the table during the meal. We just try not to think about it too much.

I think you're basically right. Probably much of human evolution was tied to omnivorous habits, but thankfully that doesn't mean that we have to eat bugs (or pigs) now - or at least immediately. (I do have some concerns for the short term sustainability of agriculture - bugs could become popular again.)

[donco6]

61. Good one.

Meat eater here, but that was funny.

And you're right about lamb.

[mzteris]

14. only when they

mock me or my kids for being vegetarians;

try to "trick" my kids into eating meat;

regale me and my kids with tales of what puny sickly weaklings they are going to grow up to be if they "don't eat meat" and that they'll never make it as a "real athlete" unless they eat meat;

when they go on in great gory detail how they stalked, killed, and "dressed" the animal they are happily munching on;

when they make those mmmm-mmmm- lip-smacking sounds and say "you don't know what you're missing" - here TRY some - and wave it around under your nose and try to get you to just TASTE it;

other than that - No. Not offended at all.


(Note - my hubby isn't a vegetarian - but it's not HIM doing these things - but mostly my lame brained ijit retired AF colonel RW big-time hunter/fisherman brother...... thankfully - we don't see him much.


More on the hubby not being a veggie thing. At home he pretty much eats what we eat. He'll occasionally get wings and usually keeps a couple of "chicken pot pies" in the freezer. When he goes out, he orders meat. He would like to be a vegetarian but he's a meat-addict. :( )

[flvegan]

15. Ah, but see

that's the carnivore having a problem with someone who is veg*.

I oft wonder why, when I don't make issue of it, it's like they are making a preemptive strike against me making issue of it. I don't hear the "puny sick weakling" lines, though.

[mzteris]

18. ***I don't hear

the "puny sick weakling" lines, though.***

I wonder why?!?!

:rofl:

When my 7 yo hits puberty I don't think we'll be hearing it anymore, either!

My older son is very thin and very fair - but he's always been that way - even before we were vegetarians. Funny, when he was little we used to have to MAKE him to eat his vegetables. I used to hide pureed veggies in other foods... LOL

[SeattleGirl]

17. That's so wrong, mzteris

I am a meat eater, and it would never occur to me to think of vegetarians as weaklings or anything like that. I actually think vegetarianism is pretty cool, but I'm such a picky eater that I don't know if I could find enough of a variety of things to eat. (Of course, if i really put my mind to it and did some research into some good vegetarian cook books, I could probably find a lot of things I'd like to eat.)

I do have a really good friend who's vegetarian. We used to work together at a small company, and all of us would eat lunch together. She knows I absolutely respect her choice to be a vegetarian, as she respects my choice to eat meat. We tease each other sometimes about it. One time during lunch, she was eating a salad, and I said, "M, do you have ANY idea how many heads of lettuce had to die so you could have your salad?" She almost fell out of her chair laughing. But again, she knows I was kidding her, as I know the occasional remark she makes to me about eating meat is just her kidding me.

But as to what you are describing, that is just plain wrong, and very disrespectful. Glad you don't have to be around your brother much, at least at mealtime.

:hi:

[mzteris]

19. thanks.

My bro is a bushbot - what else do you expect from someone like that?

:(

[SeattleGirl]

20. You're welcome.

Both my brothers are bushbots, one much worse than the other. Fortunately, though, if they say something too "botty", I talk to them and poke all kinds of holes in what they say. And since I'm the "big sister", they listen. Unfortunately, I don't always suceed in getting them to see the light on particular subjects, but sometimes, I do score one for our side.

[mzteris]

34. I'm just the

"little sister".....

They still call me "the baby" and I recently turned 50.

:rofl:

[SeattleGirl]

41. My 4 siblings like to call me their "old' sister!

:rofl:

[Rabrrrrrr]

21. You know, I just don't get that behavior -

I'm not a vegetarian, but I have many vegetarian friends and I have had to endure with them - and also other people I know just generally spouting off against vegetarians - as they've been abused by meat eaters.

I don't get why so many meat eaters are threatened by vegetarians. In the long history of humanity, meat has been a very small part of the diet until the indutrial revolution and the ability to make meat affordable for the non-wealthy.

And humanity certainly seems to have survived qite well for hundreds of thousands of years with a non-meat diet.

I'd put a lot of meat eating Americans up against vegetarian Japanese buddhist monks any day - anyone who says "scrawny, malnourished weaklings" has never met one those guys.

[mzteris]

43. I listed some of the more

egregious behaviour - mainly my brother who really thinks it's funny to "put people down" - but there are many other - more subtle jibes and/or comments - from others all the time.

Most of it I just put down to ignorance about vegetarianism, but unfortunately I have a group of friends (and yeah - they're friends in all other ways) - that have glomed onto a "fad" that is viruently anti-soy and almost fanatically lotsa meat/fat/oil/organic milk oriented. We try not to talk about it around each other - but one woman is constantly dropping "soy is poison" type comments. :(

I very tactfully suggested (when asked what I thought) that maybe they should more thoroughly check the "sources" of this fad - but that went right in one ear and out the other. I could slam them with reams of research debunking their "fad" - but I won't as I do consider them friends. I do worry about their health, though. :(

**I don't get why so many meat eaters are threatened by vegetarians.**

For the same reason many people are threatened by someone "different" from themselves.

[xmas74]

35. That's horrible that someone would do that.

I sometimes eat meat and I wouldn't dream of doing that to you. If I didn't realize that you were a vegetarian I'd offer you a brat off the grill but as soon as you were to state that you don't eat meat I'd invite you to rummage for anything you'd like to eat in the house.

There are insensitive people on all sides of the issue. Meateaters who think everyone else should do the same, vegetarians who force their views and others who just enjoy picking fights in general about what you've offered them (no matter what their preferred diet is).

Some people are just assholes, no matter what their diet choices are.

[mzteris]

44. Most people are pretty cool

- and I don't take offense from those who don't know - or who might comment out of not knowing about the diet.

One side effect of being a veggie is that we rarely go to anyone's house to eat anymore. I don't do "holidays" with the relatives because some will go WAY out of their way to try and accommodate us and some will go out of their way to try and make us feel as uncomfortable as possible. (Heck, my own grown daughter opts to go to other people's houses for holidays since we don't do a "real Thanksgiving/Christmas/Easter meal" anymore. :( )

If we're invited over to a cookout or something I always speak up and say we'll bring our own as I don't want anyone stressing over what to feed us. (Of course there was the neighbor who happily plopped our veggie burgers onto the grill right with the other burgers/hotdogs and then piled them all willy nilly together on a plate. I wouldn't have dreamed of saying anything to him about it - and made sure my son kept his mouth shut. "but MOM....." "SHH!! just hush and eat! it's OK. Remember if it's not volitional it doesn't "count"....." My son - who started this whole vegetarian thing when he was about 9 (he's almost 13 now) and decided he was a Buddhist - tends to get upset when meat appears in something you've ordered veggie. (Like a stray piece of pepperoni on a pizza, or a piece of chicken in the veggie fried rice or something.) I think it goes back to my bro hiding a bit of steak in his dinner a couple of years ago.

[Deja Q]

59. Funny, some of the vegetarians I know mock me.

We're only human.
:(

[peacebuzzard]

22. No. I am not offended. and yes, I have to eat with my coworkers often

because of our work schedules we have to spend our meal times together as well. When we don't have an adequate break, the company provides meals, which I usually give away to whoever wants it. 99 % of the time it is not suitable to eat. (by my standards) So, I usually bring my own fruit, protein bars, nuts etc to get me by during the work day. I get quite a bit of friendly flak and kidding but my co-workers are usually very happy to have an extra meal to pick at.
While away from home, we (co-workers) and I go out to eat often and it is a non-issue except for the curious comments I get from the carnivores. It is an innocent and usually entertaining subject matter to me.

[LeftyMom]

23. No and yes but honestly I'd rather not.

The sight and smell of flesh as food really bothers me. I have no appetite and get rather nauseated when around others eating animals.

I'm not offended by omnivores though, they're products of a culture that encourages denial about what meat is and it's not easy to reject years and years of programming from family, school, the media, etc.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

45. So the scientific fact that we are omnivores means nothing?

If we were strictly herbivores we would not be able to physically eat meat. It would do us no good and we wouldn't able to absorb the vitamins and minerals in it. Also, we have canines, teeth that we were given to tear meat. It has nothing to do with programming, but rather with how we are. Herbivores like cows, rabbits, etc can't eat meat because they can't process it, the physically can't digest it. It's science, it's who we are. And you choose to be a vegetarian. That's fine, but don't be smug about the rest of us. I was not brainwashed or programmed into thinking that I am an omnivore. It's the way we were wired. We need protein. And I don't mean from bean juice.
Duckie

[LeftyMom]

46. A question was asked, I answered it honestly

As for the human need for protein and the ability of plant foods to meet that need, just go read this because I've typed on that topic 'till my fingertips were sore and frankly I'm bored with it. Please note the pics of protein-deprived vegans. I can produce more should they be needed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=231&topic_id=13102&mesg_id=13102

[YellowRubberDuckie]

47. It's an adaptation you've made, that, frankly, I really don't want to.

And saying what you said is not only just an opinion, the comment about us being programmed, it's a bit rude. Eat what you want, and quit shoving it down the throats of others.
Duckie

[LeftyMom]

49. A lot of money is spent promoting the idea that meat is needed

that animals raised for meat and thier reproductive biproducts live happy lives, that women and children need the milk of cows, etc. A great deal of that marketing money is spent on children's television, for "educational" materials on diet to be distributed to schools, etc.

Hell yes, that's programming and nobody'd spend the money if it didn't work.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

67. I think it tastes good.

I don't watch commercials or buy what I'm told to buy. Wow. You seem to think, based on your prior posts, that whoever doesn't agree with you is stupid and brainwashed to think a different way. How small minded.
Just so we're clear: I don't care who anyone sleeps with or what anyone eats...and I'd really like it if everyone stayed out of who I sleep with and what I eat, as well.
I guess this is just one more thing you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on as well. And if not we can agree to ignore each other. Thanks.
Duckie

[LeftyMom]

69. I'm not sure why you think this is about you.

Okay, you're impervious to however many years of cultural conditioning and advertising. Congrats. My point still stand as I was speaking of the relationship between flesh consumption and culture on a macro scale. Of course I have neither the intent nor the desire to speculate why you in specific choose to eat flesh- I've never met you.

[flvegan]

53. Kind of like

"wanting" to drive an H2. Quit shoving your bullshit "global warming" down the throats of others, as stated, yes?

[YellowRubberDuckie]

63. I never said bullshit.

I just said that if our bodies didn't absorb the meat products then we wouldn't eat meat because we wouldn't be able to. Global warming is another one of those pesky facts that people don't want to pay attention to. I'm not saying it's not ok to be a vegan or a vegetarian. I'm saying I'm not going to be one, so stop acting like I'm brainwashed or programmed because I don't agree with it. Eating meat and driving an H2 are apples and oranges and just shows how desperate you are to make a point. Let's just agree to disagree about this topic. Thanks.
Duckie

[flvegan]

66. Okay, but

you might consider looking into the impact each has on the planet, and the contribution to global warming, and then seeing how apples v. oranges it is.

Until then, yes, let's agree to disagree and move forward.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

68. So because cows fart, I shouldn't eat meat?

But by that logic, I'm doing my part to get rid of the cows by eating them so there are fewer to fart into the atmosphere. Is that what you meant?
Duckie

[flvegan]

70. No, that isn't.

Couple things missed here, maybe:

Supply v. demand

The rain forest

Environmental concerns in communities where intensive animal confinement exists

World hunger

One could easily tie it all together. If you'd like to try, please do. Otherwise, please go about your business, enjoying your meals.

[Madrone]

72. Actually - Driving an H2 is better for the environment

than eating meat - if you have to pick between the two. I'd suggest doing some research. Really.

[LeftyMom]

73. Yep.

http://society.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5366035-105909,00.html

[Madrone]

74. Cool!

Thanks for the article that backs up what was only "un"common sense for me before!

:)

[XemaSab]

48. There's a difference between admitting the fact that humans

on some level evolved to eat meat and the fact that many Americans eat meat 3x a day. Humans really don't need bacon for breakfast, cold cuts for lunch, and a steak for dinner in order to live, but it seems like that's the direction a lot of the "omnivore" argument goes in.

Leftymom is grossed out by meat because she's very conscious of where it comes from and that's upsetting to her. Most of my "omnivore" friends and relatives really don't want to know about it. For example, I found a turkey that had just been hit by a car and I brought it home and my mom FLIPPED OUT that it was going in her freezer... she was trying to make the argument that it was "germy," in total disregard of *her* frozen factory-farmed chicken breasts on the next shelf down. She eats LOTS of meat but she also considers herself an animal lover and she doesn't want to face the fact that her dinner was once a living creature.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

64. I'm not criticizing her choice...

I'm calling her out for saying I'm programmed to not agree with her.
Duckie

[flvegan]

51. So what you're saying is

That because we have canines (2) we were given to tear meat?

Process meat...you mean raw, right, like carnivores do...raw, bloody, uncooked without utensils?

Granted, you might be an omnivore, but eating meat is a choice based in "want" not need. Protein is needed...doesn't have to be an animal based source though, does it?

[YellowRubberDuckie]

65. No, doesn't have to be animal based...

I just said I want mine to be meat based. I don't care if you want to be a vegan. That's your business. Just like it's my business to eat meat. :shrug:
Duckie

[flvegan]

71. There's that word, again...

"want"

"I just said that I want mine to be meat based."

As for me wanting to be vegan, I do. I also feel ethically driven to NEED to be. And yes, it is our business. Spelling corrected by me.

[tjwmason]

56. As an honest question.

You say that modern culture encourages denial of what meat is - I heartily agree, and think that vegetarianism would rise dramatically if people had to make the connextion between the animals pottering round the field (or unfortunately in too many cases trapped in the small confines of a cage) and the piece of meat on the table.

However, I do think that some (especially in rural areas, especially farmers) do make that connection - do you thin kthat they're morally different (either better or worse) for having considered the reality of the position and still kept eating meat - rather than those who embrace the denial fed to them from an early age?

In the interests of full disclosure - I'm an omnivore, but I eat far less meat than most modern folk. I also turn to an entirely "vegetarian" diet at times for reasons unconnected with health or ethics. I think that omnis who make silly comments at vegetarians are among the most idiotic and crass folk I've come across - if I'm cooking for vegetarians I'd normally make the whole meal meat-free, if eating out with them would only eat meat if they're ok with me doing so. Basic position - "why can't we just have a small modicum of respect for each other?"

[LeftyMom]

58. It depends

Subsistence farmers and hunters I have some sympathy for. I've been broke myself and at times I've gone hungry but I'm really not in a place where I can or want to judge others' response to poverty and thier need for food. Honestly, I don't know what to say about those who know the reality that these foods are the result of pain and death, have other options, and continue to raise or eat them. It's just such a foreign idea to me I have a hard time wrapping my mind around it enough to be upset with such people.

[XemaSab]

60. I know people who raise their own cows, lambs, and chickens for food

Who aren't in dire poverty, but they do this so that they can know that the animals were raised in a humane manner.

One of my former colleagues gets a beef calf every year and pastures him next to her house. After the animal is killed, she eats off him all year long. She also has chickens for eggs. I have less of a problem with people killing animals than raising them in cruel environments, like battery cages, so if Heather's cool with how she raises her animals then I'm cool with that too. :shrug:

[tjwmason]

62. I've thought about that recently.

If opportunity presented itself I would love to raise some animals for food. As you say, one knows then that they've had lives free from cruelty.

[Southsideirish]

24. I'm throughly repelled by meat eaters. In fact, I only know one and I

don't see her very often because of that. I don't believe any sentient being should ever suffer and I do what I can to avoid doing so or prevent it if I can. It may involve turning a hose on a cat who is stalking a bird or distracting a dog who is chasing a rabbit or squirrel.

We've saved countless animals and birds over the years - one time we saved a little stray dog twice in one week and eventually saw that it got a good home. Another time we hired a neighbor to drive a baby crow to a nature preserve 10 miles away which had a nursery. Many other rescue stories but you get the idea at least I'm able to live with myself.

[KFC]

38. Chicken is not officially considered meat

They don't have a thought in their head and they scratch and peck all the time. Fair game.

[yewberry]

39. What an incredibly weird assertion!

Hmmm, how can I spin this into another urban legend about KFC and whether they're actually serving "meat"...

mwah-hah-hah...

[KFC]

40. If you think that chickens think that they are meat

You've got another thing coming

[yewberry]

42. Gaaa! 80s earworm!

(If only I had a photo Minnie Riperton right now, I'd show you!)

[KFC]

50. Just saying her name installed it in my head

That might be the harshist earworm ever. Based on that I will still eat Chickens but will not eat anything else.

[RebelOne]

25. No, if that's their thing, I will not condemn it.

I have eaten many a meal with carnivores. I do not lecture them about meat-eating, but they mock me concerning my vegetarianism.

[uppityperson]

26. omnivores, they eat more than just meat.

I can eat with omnivores, though UPjr has trouble (teen yrs, moral vegetarian)

[LaurenG]

27. I'm not

I just stay away from cooking or buying it for others.

[yewberry]

28. No, I eat with them all the time.

I'd have to eat alone at work every day!:cry:


I just don't like it when they microwave ^&**#! fish in the teachers' lounge (which doubles as my office.)
I don't think the meaters like that either, though, so I don't think that's a veg*n thing.

[SeattleGirl]

29. Cooking fish in a microwave? Outta be a law against that!

I like fish, but that would make ME nauseous! :puke:

[yewberry]

30. That's what I'm saying!

Thank you!

Oh, hey--I've a question for you...My mom's coming to visit this weekend. Do you know of anything festival-ish around here this weekend? Maybe Folklife, but she's not that much of a city person. Anything interesting in your neck of the woods?

[SeattleGirl]

31. Not off the top of my head, but you might want to do a search

here:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/wh/

[yewberry]

32. Thanks!

I can never find those calendars/visitor guides when I want them.

Maybe we'll go to the rhododendron gardens on Whidbey!

[SeattleGirl]

36. Nice idea! Whidbey is such a beautiful island.

Have fun!

[NMMNG]

54. I routinely eat with omnivores

It doesn't bother me in any way. The only omnis who offend me are the ones who go on an anti-veg*n tirade with no provocation.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

55. Oh if they're an asshole.

My opinion is leave me alone while I'm eating and I'll leave you alone. I've dealt with too many carnivores that feel the need to physically wave a steak in my face. Just eat it and I don't care. If you wave it around in my face mocking me, I will be resisting the urge to disarm the steak knife from you and use it as a weapon.

[Ravenseye]

57. Only if they give us guff

I'm not offended, I eat meat occasionaly so I guess i'm not a vegetarian officially, but 99% of the time I am, and my wife is 100%. Real Vegetarian (ie not one of those Fishitarian scum ;) )

So I could care less what other people want to eat. If it comes up in conversation we'll talk about it and I'll explain why. Why i think the evidence shows it's healthier for me, better for the planet, and so on.

I only get angry and offended when people start getting critical of our dietary choices based in ignorance. Usually those are people I don't choose to associate with afterwards for many reasons, not just the dietary comments.