OK Tolkien experts, I need your help re: death of the Witch King

[KadeCarrion]

My coworker (who has tendencies towards know-it-all-ism) claims that Merry was the one to actually kill the Witch King of Angmar, whereas Eowyn merely injured him. I'm no expert, having only just read the books this summer, but isn't that bull? All of the supplementary materials I've read list Eowyn as having killed him. My understanding of the text itself is that Merry's Barrow-Down blade made the Witch-King susceptible to enemy blades, and death.

So... any insight?

Thanks again!
Kade

[Maeve]

1. Your coworker has it exactly backwards

Merry's blade cut the sinew of the knee and felled the Black Rider, but Eowyn drove her sword between crown and mantle.

Found in the chapter "The Battle of the Pelenor Fields", about half-way thru (page 143 in the 1969 Ballentine Books papaerback edition)

[Bonobo]

4. On the surface, it seems so. However:

Tolkien also wrote that only Merry's blade had the power (since it was forged by the Numenoreans while the Witch-King was their major enemy) to kill the Witch King.

I quote:
So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North Kingdom when the Dunedain were young, and the chief aong their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorceror king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt the foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the soekk that knit his unseen sinews to his will.

So in summation, I would say that it was really Merry who did the work and Eowyn sory of deluivered a coup de grace.

[Maeve]

7. Disagree

While it broke the spell (and the sinews of the Witch King's knee), Eowyn is given credit for the kill.

[Bonobo]

9. Disagreement is fair, but can you furnish a quote to support position?

BTW, my "opinion" about Merry is one I just gave birth to this morning, so please dissuade me if you can.

[Maeve]

11. Appendix A

Note on the Kings of the Mark, third line re: Eowyn "Lady of the Shield-arm"
"For her shield-arm was broken by the mace of the Witch-King; but he was brought to nothing and thus the words of Glorfindel long before to King Earnur were fulfilled, that the Witch-King would not fall by the hand of man. For it is said in the songs of the Mark that in this deed Eowyn had the aid of Theoden's squire, and that he also was not a Man but a Halfling,,,"

Again, Eowyn is given credit for the kill, but points for the assist to Merry.

[Bonobo]

12. Guess you're right about the official credit

But then again, history is written by the winners and the hobbits just didn't make it in the long run...

I think it's sort of like giving credit for the fall of Communism to Reagan...

After all, if Merry hadn't "unknit" those sinews, I just don't think it would have happened.

[BiggJawn]

13. Knife to the back of the knee not really a mortal wound.

We can sit here all month and argue how many Balrogs it takes to change a beacon fire, but it still stands: Eowyn of The Mark for the Kill, Meriadoc of The Shire on the assist.

[devilgrrl]

17. Knee-slapping hilarious...

We can sit here all month and argue how many Balrogs it takes to change a beacon fire

Spewed tea all over the monitor... I love it. :7

[BiggJawn]

2. Who told him that? FAUX nesw?

Have him explain it in Westron. Bet he can't. So much for being an expert....(neither can I, but at least I read all the appendices)

In Chapter 6 of Book V, When Eowyn stands between the fallen Theoden and the lord of the Nazgul, the Witch king says "Hinder me? Thou fool, no living man may hinder me."
"Then Dernhelm laughed, 'But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn am I, Eomund's daughter...'..."

as he brought his mace down upon her shield, he fell forward, for Merry's blade had passed up under his hauberk, cutting the sinews behind his knee.

"...'Eowyn! Eowyn!' cried merry. Then tottering, struggling up with her last strength she drove her sword between the crown and mantle, as the great shoulders bowed befor her. The sword broke sparkling into many shards. The crown rolled away with a Clang..."

Now, I'm no expert on Witch-king anatomy, but all thing as they are, and since the Witch-king WAS a mortal man at one time, I think I'd rather take a cut behind my knee than a sword between my crown and mantle, in the general vicinity of my neck.

Merry's Barrow-blade vapourized, for as we recall from the incident at Weathertop, "All blades perish that pierce the Dark King..."

[Bridget Burke]

3. Eowyn killed him with Merry's help

"...suddenly {the Witch King} too stumbled forward with a cry of bitter pain, and his stroke went wide, driving into the ground. Merry's sword had stabbed him from behind, shearing through the black mantle, and passing up beneath the hauberk had pierced the sinew behind his mighty knee.

"'Eowyn, Eowyn!" cried Merry. Then tottering, struggling up, with her last strength she drove her sword between crown and mantle, as the great shoulders bowed before her. The sword broke sparkling into many shards. The crown rolled away with a clang. Eowyn fell forward upon her fallen foe. But lo! the mantle and hauberk were empty. Shapeless they lay now on the ground, torn and tumbled; and a cry went up into the shuddering air, and faded to a shrill wailing, passing with the wind, a voice bodiless and thin that died, and was swallowed up and was never heard again in that age of the world."

Merry's blade was powerful because it had been forged by old enemies of the King of Angmar. But Eowyn was able to kill him because "no living man" could do so and, as she had pointed out, she was a woman.

Darn you, having located the books, I may start again to read the whole thing.

[Maeve]

5. There you go! What we tell you three times is true!

:P

[KadeCarrion]

6. Yes, but see post 4!

The debate carries on!

Edit: Thanks to everyone for their replies! I have to get to work (it's starting to snow pretty hard, ugh) but you guys get to the bottom of this for me and I'll check in when I'm off work. ;-)

[Maeve]

8. Web search results

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/tolkien/newsgroups/ sez:
5) Who killed the Witch-king, Merry or Eowyn?

Most agree that Eowyn's stroke was the immediate cause of the
Witch-king's death. The primary debate is whether Merry's role was
simply to provide a distraction, or whether his sword (taken from the
Barrow Downs) was necessary to break some "spell of protection" that
would otherwise have guarded the Witch-king from harm.
The debate generally centers around the meaning of the statement
that "no other blade... would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter,
cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen
sinews to his will" (from "The Battle of the Pelennor Fields"). Also
significant is Aragorn's statement in "The Departure of Boromir" that
the Hobbits' blades were "wound about with spells for the bane of
Mordor." Opinions on the degree to which these spells had an effect
on the Witch King range from "minimal" to "absolutely necessary if the Witch King was to be harmed at all.

And from the Barrow-Downs, http://www.barrowdowns.com/Articles_Barnaul_LordOfNazgul.asp?Size=
Some have said that Éowyn, being a woman, and Merry, being a hobbit, were the only two on the Pelennor that could have had anything to do with killing the Witch-king. Personally, I < disagree >. If you lived more than a millennium and were still a very high ranking person, and were invisible, you would think you were hot stuff too. Anyone there could have killed him. After Merry poked him, of course.
In conclusion, Éowyn killed the Witch-king, just like I always thought, but only with a good deal of help from Merry, which I didn't pick up on the first time. And the Witch-king is full of himself.

While Merry's stroke made it possible, Eowyn still gets credit for the killing blow (which nearly killed her, I might add!)

[brainshrub]

10. You are all wrong!

It was Howard Dean's wife, Judith Steinberg Dean, who slew the Witch King!

ON EDIT: God I wish I had a copy of PhotoShop right now! LOL

[Zomby Woof]

14. See? I tried telling them I was no expert!!

Someone on here said I was an LOTR expert, which is far, FAR from true, but even I knew Merry was just the set up guy, I mean, halfling, for Eowyn's attack! :D

[Selwynn]

15. Your friend is not correct

Merry injurs, Eowyn kills. Your interpretation taht Merry's Barrow-down blade is important is correct as well in my opinion.

[Bonobo]

16. Bot Tolkien himself wrote:

"No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt the foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will."

So my question is: How could Eowyn's blade have done anything by itself unless it was a similarly enchanted sword?

My opinion: Merry's stroke broke the spell and Eowyn (or any non-man?) could, after that, make the kill. Eowyn took too much credit. Merry deserved equal billing at least.

[DrWeird]

18. It's a simple solution.

Merry's blade hurt more. Eowyn killed him instantly.

[CrownPrinceBandar]

19. Alot of Tolkien questions can be answered here:

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm

Its a really great Tolkien encyclopedia. It contains probably more than anyone ever needed to know about ME. Just got back from seeing "RTK" for the second time and fortuitously came across this post.

Hope it helps.

edit: if you use the movie alone, you'd never get the significance of the blade Merry's carrying. PJ never even went into the whole Barrow-wight thing.

[Elidor]

20. Halfsies!

That is, equal credit to both of them. Neither could have done it without the other: team effort and all that.

It's a pity the elves didn't invite Merry to sail into the West after his terrible wounding. In his old age, he could be seen nodding off over a pint, wearing a shirt that said, "I killed the Witch-King of Angmar and all I got was this lousy tunic."

Even worse (in Merry's eyes): when it came time to divvy up Saruman's treasure after the Ents stormed Orthanc, Gandalf bade the hobbits to "Take anything you fancy - except the gold, for we all know that hobbits are a simple folk and have no great love for gold. Me, on the other hand, I'm not that simple. But I can give you a good deal on some of this Longbottom Leaf."

[Bonobo]

21. That was funny!

I really liked that one, thanks for the laugh!

:yourock: