Why do so many American marriages fail?

[bluestateguy]

I was just thinking about this today, and I finally realized how many Americans in one way or another have been affected by at least one divorce. I have been lucky enough not to have had to deal with that in my family, and I am not married.

But half of all marriages end in divorce. That's really staggering, and I'm just wondering why it seems to be such a problem here.

[billyskank]

1. Not just Americans

It is a common occurrence throughout the developed world.

[camero]

2. Money

Harder to stay married when you have a hard time paying the bills.

[supernova]

3. That's the biggest reason

fights about and different beliefs about money, among healthy individuals.

To say nothing of us who are prone to choosing mates with "issues." :yoiks:

[Deja Q]

10. Everyone has issues.

Some are just easier to deal with than others.

[supernova]

15. "Issues"

here means someone who is better off having a psychiatrist as their primary SO, not an unsuspecting SO who can get caught up in a neverending vortex of neediness. Someone who has extreme difficulty functioning in the day to day.

Of course everybody has problems and quirks, including me.

[Deja Q]

18. What should be done with those people?

Apart from allowing them to make real people angry and psychologists wealthy?

[supernova]

21. I have no idea

I'm not some grand master planner for society.

I do know that if you enter into a marriage with such a person, it can be absolutely devestating mentally, physically, and financially, unfortunately. edit: We have a lot of undiagnosed cases of mental illness in our society. If in your dating life, you run across someone with say Borderline Personality Disorder, it's very likely they don't know it. Or if they do, they don't want to acknowldege that their behavior hurts others around them. That's the hardest part of it, IMO.

If you enter into such a marriage knowing that person has difficulties, it means you're prepared to acknowledge that they might not be able to return your love and affection to the magnitude that you deserve. If you're prepared to make that kind of compromise, I guess it's OK. It just isn't for me.

edit 2: I really hope you don't think I mean you HT. I don't think Asperger's qualifies here. :hug:

[billyskank]

5. Actually I think it's related to increasing wealth

People in poorer countries struggle too; much more than we do in fact. In places where marriages still last, it is probably because:

(a) the woman would be destitute if she divorced, and

(b) the woman would be a social outcast if she divorced.

Without these pressures keeping people from leaving their partners, people don't see why they should stay married to an asshole, I guess. Problem is that there's a hell of a lot of assholes out there, which might be why so many marriages fail.

[camero]

8. This column has quite a few insights

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/01/28/News/Marriage_is_tougher_w.shtml


Marriage has been in the news lately for its scarcity. More than half of all women in our country are now sans spouse. It's enough to make a wedding planner sob into her taffeta.

This slow demise of marriage - down nearly 50 percent since 1970 - has a number of culprits. Americans are waiting longer to get hitched, are living together without benefit of marriage and, of course, are divorcing at a high rate.

This is old news. Mine the marriages statistics deeper, and you'll unearth a much more remarkable fact: Better-off couples are half as likely to divorce. Families with annual incomes over $50,000 have a 31 percent chance of divorce after 15 years, according to a study by the National Marriage Project at Rutgers University, whereas families with incomes below $25,000 have a 65 percent chance of divorce.

Income predicts divorce with great accuracy. The numbers suggest that a key variable in family stability is less cultural or sociological - less about personal values - than about basic economics.

It is hard to get along when you can't get by.

Money pressures can create assholes. Some are just assholes. Go figure.

[alarimer]

9. I think you might be correct

I have never been married (or even close) but I have certainly noticed an increase in the number of assholes out there.

[Dora]

76. That's a huge part of it. Thanks for making the point. n/t

[lost-in-nj]

4. because

one of the partners decides there
has to be more to life than this...
theres got to be more out there.....

:shrug: :shrug:


lost

[yellowdogintexas]

6. unrealistic expectations nt

[zanne]

34. BINGO!

When reality sets in and our mates are not measuring up to our expectations, we try to change them into our version of the perfect mate. In the immortal words of MIch Jagger "You can't always get what you want".

[Deep13]

64. I have BINGO too.

Unwillingness to live as a couple rather than as individuals. Unwillingness to accept each other as they are. Expectation of the other partner without much thought or consideration for what he or she wants.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

7. Because too many people who shouldn't be married are getting married.

Money, sex differences, et. al. are just facets of the fact that people very easily get married nowadays and, yes, many of those marriages are perhaps not advisable due to fundamental differences that might not be immediately apparent. Divorce isn't the issue; in these cases, divorce is the good thing. The issue is getting married too quickly, getting married to the wrong person, etc.

[Guava Jelly]

11. Because People change and grow and sometimes not in the same direction

But what do i know i have never been married

[somewhere_out_there]

38. more likely because marriage is work...

and most people don't want to work that hard - think it should just be easy, or they should just leave. They don't "grow" indifferent directions.....they choose them.

[Guava Jelly]

56. A marriage without love is hard work

It should be easy.
And with all due respect I have my doubts about your understanding of love.
Isn't happiness important to you as well?? If not it should be.

[somewhere_out_there]

81. aha - there's the real issue isn't it... what is love?

True love....not the lusting and "feeling" of physicalness. It takes maturity to understand and it's a shame that it gets thrown out with the trash. It's a shame that it gets treated like a cancer when things get tough. Only the strong survive and find it's true meaning and not hop from one to another like rabbits.

[Guava Jelly]

83. Lusting you say and physicalness..

Love is way more than sex.
I have had sex and have made love..Even to the same woman.There is a difference
I believe you are fighting to hold on to something that is gone..
And trying to Force a love or kick a dead horse that is already passed.
I feel pity for you...
You care more for your own happiness than you know who's...
It is sad really really sad..
And I can tell that you are beyond reason.
Why am i even replying to you.
You care not for the heart.
And you know not what love is....I still Pity you.

[somewhere_out_there]

88. the reality is you know not of what you speak....

your personal experiences have nothing to do with the "happiness" you claim is lacking in the situation you referred to previously. When faced with the inner truth, when having to answer to one's offspring as to the why's, when dealing with the same identical issues 2 or 5 or 10 years down the road with another person, the answer still is the same. The face may change, but the issues do not. The person (people) who care for their own happiness over others is not me, my friend....I have made the personal sacrifices for the happiness, and well being, of those I love (I mean truly love). I would lay down my life for their "happiness"...not fleeting infatuations which will destroy the true "happiness" of their lives. Please, the one who needs your pity is certainly not me.

[RetroLounge]

91. Wow, it is truly pathetic to join a forum

just to try to defend your view of what's happening in your own family to a bunch of strangers under the false cloak of anonymity.

Maybe instead you should be talking to the family member involved, and listening to her, instead of trying to impose your own beliefs.

But then again, it's too late for that, isn't it?

RL

[somewhere_out_there]

94. when the family member is ready to talk to the family then I am

ready to listen. However, that just shows again, how little information you have about the situation.

[RetroLounge]

100. But it's not *your* marriage, now is it...

and I have a lot of information, and know more than enough to know listening isn't what you want to do.

:hi:

RL

[somewhere_out_there]

102. so very wrong...witnessed it all from day one and know the truth..

but I will be the one who picks up the pieces

[Guava Jelly]

93. You lack understanding

You think you know so you refuse to learn or change...Or grow. You are stagnant and lost..And you have my pity if you want it or not.
For one thing you are not here for political reasons..
You are here to snoop and harass a person you perceive as a villain.
Just remember when you point a finger at someone three fingers are pointed back at you....
Out of respect for a friend I am now placing you on ignore.

[RetroLounge]

67. I think you are over-simplifying it based on your own prejudices

:hi:

But what do I know. I've only been married twice...

...So far.

:D

RL

[somewhere_out_there]

82. not oversimplifying it at all....and certainly not prejudiced....

lived and loved a lot longer than you and certainly have benefited from the wisdom of such.

[RetroLounge]

89. Actually, you're not that much older than I am...

and your wisdom is not all that great, apparently.

But nice to see you again...

RL

[somewhere_out_there]

90. maybe not in years, but definitely in wisdom and in life...

wish I could return the pleasantry.

[RetroLounge]

96. Somehow, I don't think so... But I could be wrong.

and the pleasantry had the opportunity to be there, which was obvious to me from our phone conversation which I found oddly enjoyable, but you continue to bring it here.

You have my number, feel free to use it if you want to discuss in private what should not be tossed out here in a public forum.

RL

[RetroLounge]

92. "because marriage is work"

and yours worked so well...

RL

[somewhere_out_there]

95. didn't say I wasn't guilty..... just learned from the mistakes

enough not to repeat them.

[RetroLounge]

97. Good point.

But your mistakes (and mine) are not someone elses, and you can share your wisdom but you know as well as I do that people need to make their own mistakes or their own successes, and we have no control over the outcomes thereof.

Trying to control another human being leads to their pulling farther and farther away.

case in point...

RL

[somewhere_out_there]

99. Never tried to control another human being....

despite what they may have told you.

[RetroLounge]

101. Oh, it's a combined effort I think...

and I'm not sure the outcome will make anyone happy.

But maybe we can talk over a cup of coffee one day soon when I come visit.

RL

[BarenakedLady]

108. "Trying to control another human being leads to their pulling farther and farther away."

Spot on.

:applause:

[RetroLounge]

109. ...

:hi:

RL

[La Lioness Priyanka]

12. stress: long work days, job insecurities and very little vacation time

i think the American corporation subsidized by the American government is ruining American families.

if you are constantly stressed, cant spend time with your family, it makes it harder to stay together as a unit.

divorce has its uses. you shouldn't be trapped into unhappiness etc. women have more wealth now, and can afford to leave unhappy/abusive relationships.


however for a country that loves to tout family values, we sure make it hard to be a family.

[tigereye]

27. very well said, lioness

[Jade Fox]

45. Excellent post....

What you say reminds me of writer/historian Christopher Lasch's smack down of Conservatives when he pointed out that the breakdown of the American family has nothing to do with homosexuals, etc., and everything to do with Capitalism. I tried to find a good link to his work, but was unable to.

[idgiehkt]

118. I don't believe in that

'breakdown of the family' myth. Just because conservatives say something is happening doesn't mean it really is. They just wanted a hammer to pound feminists and African American families, many of whom are headed by women, with.

Labor laws have brought us to this point of the 40 hour workweek, but before then many people worked 12 hour days six days a week when divorce was unheard of...in factories and coal mines and the like. On farms they worked from sun up to sun down, and it was hard physical labor. I think people are getting divorced now for one reason, and that is because they can. Or as a friend of mine who was raised in a devout Catholic family said once, 'back in the old days, you didn't leave, you let him beat you to death.' My grandmother got a divorce and was excommicated from the Catholic Church for it, she decided, thank god, NOT to let her first husband beat her to death. Or, for instance, Sinead O'Connor's father becoming the first Irishman ever to be awarded custody of his kids because his wife was so abusive to him. Not everyone divorces under such dire circumstances, but at least now they have the option. Divorce is horrendously painful to the children involved, that much can't be denied, but that doesn't make it an unnatural thing.

[supernova]

13. It's a deceptively simply concept

1) Find someone you love and like (no those two aren't the same thing.) CHECK

2) Find someone who loves and likes you. (I would include sexual compatibility in these first two.) Is this person responsible and dependable? CHECK

3) FInd someone with interests, goals, outlook, philosophy, (or any combo thereof) that are roughly similar to yours. Take all the time you need. Exploration is worth everything. CHECK.

4) Find someone whose family/friends get along with your family/friends, for the most part. (With leeway for individual conflicts of course) CHECK


If you're still happy after all of that, then chances are, they are a good bet for marriage. Problem is people aren't roadmaps and it's hard to tell how much you might agree with someone until the rubber meets the road, so to speak. Or they neglected to tell you that, they're not so good with money, or you're not the best housekeeper, or how much you really really can't stand the FiL.

[Wapsie B]

75. *Best Answer in Thread*

Couldn't have said it any better.

[SPKrazy]

14. Many many reasons

growing apart
finding someone else
money problems
disagreement over many issues
family crises
the list is probably endless

sometimes people are incompatible too and don't realize it.

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

16. Because Americans don't consider a couple to be a family.

And that sets the couple up to have shallow bonds and as easily disposable.

[zippy890]

17. they don't here in Mass.

we have the lowest divorce rate in the country.

Maybe because we allow everyone to get married who wants to, yes even gays. We're all just one big happily married family.

except for the woman I work with who's a bushbot, divorced, and quite disagreeable on just about every level. and angry all the time, maybe if she dropped some of the bitterness and anger she'd find somebody.

[camero]

23. maybe that bitterness

has something to do with being proven wrong so much. Cognitive dissonance can do that.

[Rabrrrrrr]

19. Women buying into the whole "marriage makes life perfect/Prince Charming" bullshit

that makes them focus more on the wedding than on the marriage and sets up unreal expectations that are doomed to failure.

Now, one could also say that a major problem is that so many men are pigs - and that's true. But I have to put the onus on the women for believing that they can change the men, and so they marry guys who are clearly jackasses either because they think they can change them, that the guy will change on his own, that a "wedding" will somehow solve every problem, or because the woman is in her 20s and buys into the social myth that a woman without a man is incomplete and so she takes whatever is at hand at the time, afraid of entering her thirties without a husband.

Two things I would love to change in this society: our attitude towards sex and the human body, and our attitudes toward marriage/family.

Both are ridiculously dysfunctional.

[badgerpup]

26. AAAYYY-MEN!

:applause::yourock:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

48. actually i think men growing up with an attitude of entitlement is much worse

for marriage than wanting a dream wedding

[raccoon]

68. Right on, Lioness! I think the main reasons for so many divorces nowadays

are because more women have their own incomes, and don't have to put up with as much crap as they used to. It used to be that men did whatever they wanted, and women had to put up with it.
Which isn't to say that in the past there were some men who put up with a lot of crap too.

Also, there used to be a social stigma attached to divorce.

[Ellen Forradalom]

78. Yes, that is my take on it too.

It has been my experience that Mr. Man believes he deserves a certain quality of life and that it is my job to give it to him. :-/

[Rob H.]

50. I know a woman who fits that "But I can change him!" scenario

She and her boyfriend are both in their mid-forties and despite the fact that she's told him more than once that he's self-centered and takes her for granted (and he's admitted past girlfriends have told him that, too!) and that her immediate family and her friends don't like the guy, she's sticking with him and wants to marry him. She seems to believe that she thinks she can change him despite the fact that they've been dating for a year and he hasn't changed at all. He's 46. At this point he is who he's going to be and no amount of work on her part is going to change that.

One thing that makes it so fucked up is that she's normally really level-headed--it's like watching a car accident about to happen and being unable to do anything to stop it.

[Love Bug]

104. You are so correct, Rabrrrrr!

And if I may add something to that: Too many of us expect our chosen partner to fulfill all of our needs forever and ever, amen. Instead of expecting them to fulfill all of our needs, we would do well to try to fulfill theirs. Maybe that would make the difference.

[bleedingheart]

113. Hey...there are a lot of men out there that marry to find someone to be their wife and "mother"

just as their are women who think it is a crime to go unmarried until their 30's...there are men out there who marry because they need someone to take care of them...so they marry someone so they can leap from mama's house to their new mama's house...but in the latter case they can sleep with mama...

[Rabrrrrrr]

116. Oh, I think you are right - and as I said, big part of problem is that men are pigs.

But the truth of it is, the man who wants a wife and mother will show that very clearly during courting - the woman, if she's paying any attention at all, should notice that. Some don't. Some do, but have the false impression that the man will become "perfect" as soon as they say their vows, or that she can soon remake him into the "perfect" man.

So, yes - lots of men want wives who are also mothers; but those men don't hide the fact. The woman acts surprised a couple years later into the marriage when the man - who hasn't changed at all - "suddenly" becomes in need of a mother.

The good quality of men is that, even though so many of us are pigs, we're pigs all the time - upfront, honest, in your face about it, even during dating.

It's not our fault that the women don't seem to notice, or decide ten years into the marriage that it's all of a sudden an "issue".

"He never picks up after himself!"
"Did he also fail to do so while you were dating?"
"Yes."
"And that was ten years ago?"
"Yes."
(pause) "So, his behavior hasn't changed at all - but now suddenly he's 'wrong'? What's wrong with that picture?"

[Rosemary2205]

20. ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME /// I want I want I want I want

When a selfish person gets married there are bound to be problems because eventually the spouse/family will be their enemy.




Short on money! Why should "I" have to do without "my" favorite things??

Family crisis? Why should "I" have to inconvenience "myself" to help take care of it?

"I" had a bad day at work. Why should "I" control "my" frustration once "I" get home?

"I" work my ass off. "I" deserve to enjoy "my" freetime. Why should "I" give up my TV/Internet/Choir/Bowling in to bother with the spouse and kids?

"I" am attracted to that hottie over there. Why should "I" control my urges?

Any spouse who dares to tell "me" that "I" can't have everything "I" want is the enemy/problem. Finances aren't the problem, the crisis isn't the problem, the job isn't the problem, not enough hours in the day to do everything isn't the problem, lack of self control isn't the problem -- it's that damn bitch/nag/asshole who expects me to care about my family that is the problem dammit.

[camero]

30. That's a really good point

I think that the selfishness though is just a symptom of the underlying culture.

[Deja Q]

40. No no no no no! That's not marriage! That's a patent claim!

:rofl:

[achtung_circus]

41. Well that sums up my marriage (and divorce) nt.

[Binka]

112. Mine Too Circus

My malignant unprincipled narcissist nearly killed me (I mean this LITERALLY) before I got away from him last February. I'm still deeply and profoundly affected by what he drug me through. We were "together" for 7+ years and I can not even begin to imagine wanting to date again. SHUDDER. :hi:

[Akoto]

22. I think many Americans wed out of perceived obligation.

They get together because the culture tells them they're supposed to. We should all be married, have kids, etc while we're still young.

I've known people (myself included) who live perfectly happy lives as voluntary singles. At this point in my life - which is still young, admittedly - I have no plans to get married, and certainly not to have kids.

[CBHagman]

25. Well, I have noticed the age thing.

When I was younger, I noticed a fair number of people marrying at either A) age 21 or 22 or B) graduation from college. I'm not saying that was a mistake (Most of these marriages have lasted), just that it looks for all the world like socially acceptable move. I can't believe everyone magically finds the love of his/her life by age 21 or 22, or that you should plan to marry the person you're dating in your junior year of college.

[grace0418]

24. Lots of reasons. One is that people spend way more time thinking about the wedding

than the actual marriage. They'll spend untold hours and thousands of dollars on one day, but will sweep problems under the rug and refuse counseling because it's too expensive.

[The Straight Story]

28. Sex

Who would leave a partner who was really good in bed and wanted it all the time? answer - None. :)

[raccoon]

71. They might if the partner was a compulsive gambler, hopelessly promiscuous,

or something similar.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

29. People get married based on lust, not love.

I would say that a lot of people have no clue what true love is. They pick their spouse based not on what's in their head, but what they look like. They aren't friends with their spouse. If they were, so many husbands wouldn't hate their wives, and so many wives wouldn't think their husbands are complete morons.
When you are with someone you were friends with before you were anything else, there is more respect there, I believe.
When you're both elderly, it's more about what you can talk about at the end of the day, what you can share with each other on a mental and spiritual level than what you look like.
Duckie

[Taverner]

31. Because our monogamous mores do not couple with our longer lifespan

Sure, our grandparents stayed together until death, but life expectancy was different back then. Most people died in their 50's or 60's.

With humans living well into our 90's, the lifespan outlasts the monogamy.

[Deja Q]

36. I disagree.

My grandparents were together until grandfather's death. They were together some 50 years.

My parents - gonna be 40 years next summer. Assuming we're all allowed to live that long.

My parents' brothers and sisters - in their 50s and still married to the same people; 25+ years strong for each. True, one wanted a divorce, but they thought things through and stayed together.

Maybe you have the best point of them all. I can only report what I have observed.

And Duckie was also correct; most people get hitched because of lust and do not know what love truly is. I myself don't know it either... or perhaps I know it too well, but either way that is irrelevant. My life is to observe. I know my place. Some men are wise enough to know they are foolish.

[Taverner]

46. That's antectdotal. Keep in mind your grandparents may have lived healthier lives

It's not a good statistical sample

And many other representatives of their generation are now not among us

[achtung_circus]

42. My Grandparents all lived into their 90,s, 1 until 100. nt

[Nikia]

47. It seems like most people who divorce, divorce younger than that

Back then, I don't think that there were a lot of couples who were in their fifties hoping that the other one would die soon. I don't think that there were many people in their forties thinking, "I could get a divorce, but with any luck he'll/she'll be dead in another 10 years so why bother."
It is true that some people divorce later in life (several years after the children are all adults since some people stay together for that reason), but they are the minority.

[skygazer]

32. Because people don't need marriage to be financially stable anymore

And because divorce does not carry the stigma that it used to.

It used to be that people would stay married even if they were desperately unhappy in the marriage. They did it for a couple of reasons - first of all, because divorce was considered scandalous and wrong. Women received most of the blame and divorced women were seen as loose and dangerous to other marriages.

In addition, women had little opportunity in the workplace so they had financial incentives to stay married. There was also a financial incentive for the man to stay married because divorce would cost him in terms of alimony and possible child support (although many men kept the children of divorce prior to the second half of the 20th century). Besides, men could have a little something on the side without any real moral censure.


I also think that people expect far too much of marriage. People in earlier times had more realistic ideas about it. They didn't expect to be madly in love all their lives. They looked at it as a partnership and a means of reaching shared goals. People now look at it only through the lens of love, which can be fleeting. That doesn't mean people can't have a lifelong love but I really think it has to be tied to more than that - shared goals, expectations, an understanding that the feelings may change and mellow rather than stay at a fever pitch.

[Deja Q]

39. Then why do so many people spend ludicrous amounts of money, for a ceremony claimed permanent,

yet ends up being rather temporary all too quickly?

Is the whole concept pointless; and merely commercialized with no substance?

Fair enough. There is always at least one avenue that will bilk people of their money. For many, it's marriage. Or in this case "serial matrimony" .

Amusingly, this is the FIRST site that comes up when googling 'matrimony'. is the full list. Amazing how Christianity is so far down the list... Sorry to wander into a tangent; google is rather amusing on some days.

[skygazer]

43. I don't understand how your question contradicts anything I said

People do that because they expect too much, in my opinion. They expect marriage to be full of flowery, overdone, blush-of-first-romance excitement and that's not what true love is. And since both parties now typically make more money than people did back in, say, the 40's - and because they are more cavalier with their money, and more likely to engage in an escalation of debt (credit cards, car loans, mortgages - my parents were very leery of debt in all its forms, probably as a result of the Depression), that expenditure is considered worth it to them.

It is pointless? No, I don't think it is. I just think that people are expecting a lot of things that are more fairytale than true. And when it doesn't work out that way, they bail. But I also think a lot of the marriages that end probably should. I don't think it's sensible to stay together (or to stay engaged in a war, for example) because it would be somehow "bad" to "cut and run." I don't see anything wrong with ending something that isn't working.

Human beings aren't really made to be monogomous anyway. We can be which is fine, but it takes a lot of work and dedication from both parties.

[treestar]

53. I always feel better about never having been married

When I hear about how fleeting love is. People say that so often, that I think gee, I didn't miss out on so much.

Is it really that bad?

No wonder they don't last. As soon as one of the partners in the now loveless marriage falls in love again, it's all over.

We either need to base it on something other than love (and have love affairs be outside the marriage, :rofl:) or do away with it altogether.

[skygazer]

57. Well, basing it on love is a rather modern concept

It used to be based mainly on property - the ability of a man to support a wife and family, the legitimacy of the children (which had to do with inheritance and so property) and financial security for women who were not allowed any property of their own. If the couple were fortunate, love would follow.

As YankeeMCC pointed out, marriage as practiced has become somewhat of an anachronism and may be due for some change. I tend to agree.

[Haole Girl]

33. You might check this out:

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/d/divorce.htm

Fifty Percent of American Marriages Are Ending in Divorce-Fiction!

Summary of Rumor:

Marriage has deteriorated so much that half the marriages in the United States are failing. There is a 50 percent chance that your marriage will not make it.

The Truth:

Divorce is too common in America and that should not be taken lightly, but those who are committed to a lifetime of marriage don't need the discouragement accompanying the notion that half the marriages are going to self-destruct anyway.

I was once told by a young bride-to-be that she and her fiancé had decided not to say "Till death do us part" in their wedding vows because the odds of it really happening were only 50-50.

Let me say it straightforwardly: Fifty percent of American marriages are not ending in divorce. It's fiction. A myth. A tragically discouraging urban legend.

If there's no credible evidence that half of American marriages will end up in divorce court, where did that belief originate?

Demographers say there was increased focus on divorce rates during the 1970s when the number of divorces rose, partly as a result of no-fault divorce. Divorces peaked in 1979 and articles started appearing that claimed 50 percent of American marriages were ending in divorce.

A spokesperson for the U.S. National Center for Health Statistics told me that the rumor appears to have originated from a misreading of the facts. It was true, he said, if you looked at all the marriages and divorces within a single year, you'd find that there were twice as many marriages as divorces. In 1981, for example, there were 2.4 million marriages and 1.2 million divorces. At first glance, that would seem like a 50-percent divorce rate.

Virtually none of those divorces were among the people who had married during that year, however, and the statistic failed to take into account the 54 million marriages that already existed, the majority of which would not see divorce.

Another source for the 50-percent figure could be those who were trying to predict the future of divorce. Based on known divorce records, they projected that 50 percent of newly married young people would divorce. University of Chicago sociologist and researcher Linda Waite told USA Today that the 50-percent divorce stats were based more on assumptions than facts.

So what is the divorce picture in America? Surprisingly, it's not easy to get precise figures because some states don't report divorces to the National Center for Health Statistics, including one of the largest: California.

Some researchers have relied on surveys rather than government statistics. In his book Inside America in 1984, pollster Louis Harris said that only about 11 or 12 percent of people who had ever been married had ever been divorced. Researcher George Barna's most recent survey of Americans in 2001 estimates that 34 percent of those who have ever been married have ever been divorced.

One of the latest reports about divorce was released this year by the National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS). It is based on a 1995 federal study of nearly 11,000 women ages 15-44. It predicted that one-third of new marriages among younger people will end in divorce within 10 years and 43 percent within 15 years. That is not a death sentence, however; it's a forecast. Martha Farnsworth Riche, former head of the Census Bureau, told USA Today, "This is what is going to happen unless we want to change it."

Most important, the statistics and predictions about Americans in general don't tell the whole story about the future. There are other factors that affect a person's chances for a long marriage. The NCHS study of women, for example, shows that age makes a difference. Women marrying before age 20 face a higher risk for divorce. Marriages that have already lasted for a number of years are less likely to end in divorce. If your parents did not divorce, your chances are better than if you came from a broken home. Couples who live together before marriage are more likely to divorce.

The bottom line is that marriage is still what it's always been: a commitment between two people who choose to remain faithful to each other. And they don't need to feel doomed because of scary statistics — least of all ones that are urban myths.

[Ellen Forradalom]

35. We divorce because we can.

We can obtain divorces. For the most part, we can support ourselves after divorce. We do not live out our lives in shame as a result of divorce. We can choose to live with, or not live with, another person.

There has been a levelling-off in the rate of divorce. I don't think this points to a deepening of wisdom as to a tapering-off of the pent-up demand released by the passage of no-fault divorce laws.

I don't think removing access to divorce is the answer. It does nothing to improve overall happiness. Where both parties are not there freelyl, they are enslaved, and so often the woman even more than the man.

Better to create conditions in which people can choose to be together and have a prayer of a chance of staying that way.

[EstimatedProphet]

37. Half of my marriages ended in divorce

This is my second.

[TheProphetess]

66. And it's your last, mister

Don't think that you're getting away from me. (Wow - I sound like a stalker!)
:evilgrin:

[Left Is Write]

106. Well, if a wife can't stalk her own husband, who CAN she stalk?

:P

[TheProphetess]

107. I'll buy that!

:toast:

[Lyric]

44. Because gay people are getting married in Massachusetts

I'm SERIES!!!1

:sarcasm:

[treestar]

54. Yes, we have not been "defending" marriage enough!

We have let it be attacked by those evil libruls!

:rofl:

[YankeyMCC]

49. I don't know but I suspect

that marriage is becoming an outmoded method of providing mutual support and family structure. It just doesn't work in modern society in the way that most expect it to work.

Family structure is under attack in a sense because individuals are more likely to survive and thrive on their own without a tribe or family support. And although we're relearning (I think) that isolated individuals face serious challenges and lack an important safety net going back to the same old methods and traditions of building a family still isn't the answer. We need to be open to new ideas and methods of creating and sustaining families or something similar. Some of the old but with new flexibility and expectations.

Instead of patriarchal or matriarchal families, a group of equals. Instead of assumed roles, negotiated and acceptable roles, instead of assumed life-long bonds, fixed length agreements to be reasserted at key points. Instead of only mother-father-children structures the allowing (in our legal and economic systems) for multiple adult, child configurations regardless of gender combinations of course.

There are probably other things to but the bottom line is we're still using a family contract mechanism that was developed a long time ago and it needs serious updating.

[DFW]

51. In the South, where I'm from

There is a big movement to get teenagers to pledge chastity until marriage.

Besides the fact that this is stupid because you cannot pledge to repress your
hormones, it also means that these kids are pledging to never try out life with
someone they may spend their life with, but they are pledging to guess and get
it right the first time. Las Vegas meets Dixie.

This is not universal, of course. I met my wife at 22, and we only found the time
to get married at age 30 because someone else invited us to our own wedding.

Then again, we are still happily together 25 years after the wedding, so not
everyone ends up unhappy or divorced, even us iggorent suthiners.........

[treestar]

52. Not much social pressure to stay married

People are more isolated, too, from permanent friendships, nuclear family. So they demand all needs be met by spouse, who is not likely to be able to do it. There is a lot of pressure on nuclear families.

In other cultures there is still a sense of community and extended family, and I bet their divorce rates are lower.

Also just that it is no longer unusual releases the hesitancy to divorce that might have existed in earlier times.

[lizziegrace]

60. I agree completely

We live in a society where isolation is the norm. My parents are 2400 miles away. My twin sister 15 hours away. My younger sister is in the UK. If I think about where "home" is, I cannot answer the question.

[treestar]

62. There is a nonfiction book I read many years ago, called

"Nation of Strangers." It described this phenomena pretty well, IMO. Especially how transfers by big companies would mean nuclear families would move off to another state. There would often be a new kid in school, or somebody moving away.

[DFW]

63. I don't think that that is all of the equation

These days, my home is in Dallas, my office is the world,
my brother is in northern Virginia, where we grew up, my sister
is in New Jersey, my daughters are in different parts of New York,
and my wife holds down the fort in our house in Germany. We are all
in constant touch, get together when and where we can, and consider
ourselves a tight family, despite the distances.

If you maintain an "out-of-sight-out-of-mind" way of looking at things,
then that's one thing, but if you grew up with this, it doesn't have to
mean a family is disfunctional just because they don't all live under
one roof (or even on one continent).

In Germany, there are a large number of Turkish communities. They tend
to be very tight, but sometimes a little too tight for German tastes.
Despite their surroundings, some cling to the ways of old Anatolia, and
think it is perfectly reasonable to shoot down a daughter or wife on the
street in broad daylight if she has "dishonored" the family (and guess who
decides that?). This is not "anti-muslim," it is regional, rather than
religion-based. Less than a century ago, in remote parts of Spain, where I
have lived, it was basically the same rules.

I would even venture a bet that children of parents with solid first marriages
tend to have similar marriages (not an ironclad rule, but certainly something
I have observed among our friends), and that children of broken homes tend toward
the same. Not exactly "monkey see, monkey do," but what you live through while
growing up HAS to influence your ability to form solid bonds on your own. It has
to be a lot harder if you have never see up close how it is done.

[NewWaveChick1981]

55. Because marriage is idealized and not put into realistic perspective for most people.

I'm married, and I really love my husband, but if I had known how much of a one-way street my marriage was to be, I'd never, ever have done it to begin with. I value my independence, and unfortunately, I married a man who is extremely dependent. I knew him for nine years before we got married in 1992, and I thought I knew him well enough that this marriage would at least be equitable if not completely equal. I was wrong. :(

Marriage is man-made and is not the end-all, be-all many people would like to think it is.

[pitohui]

58. women have choices and lives are long

back in the day women had a life expectancy of the early 40s and died in childbirth

these days you just go through too many changes, i think, and sometimes the other person doesn't go through those changes w. you

so it's technological

altho that said i've never divorced and never expect to be (knock wood)

[swag]

59. It's not a bug, it's a feature.

Thank goodness American marriages can "fail."

[supernova]

61. There 's the old wives wisdom

that says basically if there weren't so many divorces, there'd be ALOT more murders. ;-)

[redqueen]

65. Amen.

Thank goddess for no-fault divorce.

:bounce:

[formerrepuke]

69. Intense societal & family pressure to get married..or at least

be in a relationship. There is also the same intense pressure for (married) couples to have children.

[PRETZEL]

70. Not sure I can add to the debate here

I thought my first marriage would last forever. I had everything I wanted. I had a house, 2 kids, no overly extravagant lifestyle. Bills were paid on time and we still had a little left in the bank. My ex-wife and I had both gone back to school to get different degrees (mine in accounting, hers in nursing). What I hadn't accounted for was her wants. She wanted a bigger house, a better car, more money to do things. It wasn't selfishness, it was desires on her part that was part of her upbringing. My parents taught me to work hard and be happy with what you have. She had the drive to get what she wanted and I was holding her back. She's done extemely well for herself.

I,on the other hand, have gone 10 steps backward in my second marriage. I'm on the verge of losing everything I have built up over the last 20 years in big part to my own selfishness. I was happy being with someone who made me feel good about myself (unlike my ex who constantly criticized) and didn't realize (or chose to ignore) that her demands (she is very very much an "I" person) was draining me. It frustrated the living hell out of me but I had fallen in love with her and didn't want to lose her.

But (sorry I digressed) it seems pretty evident that there are really no real reasons. Everyone will have their own uniqueness as to why marriages fail. They say (or at least I think they say) that money, sex, and infidelity are the 3 biggest reasons for failed marriages. I think that may be pretty accurate.

[skygazer]

72. I'm sorry you're going through that

But your post points out some important things. Years ago, you and your first wife probably would have stayed married and been unhappy. I personally don't think that's a good thing. Sure, sometimes modern marriages fail when perhaps more compromise could have saved them but a lot of times, compromising will just lead to more unhappiness. There are things one can compromise on and others that one just can't.

Ending a marriage is hard and painful but in the end, I think it's better than spending the rest of your life with someone who doesn't make you happy.

[PRETZEL]

73. You'll get no arguments from me on that

but my dad always told me that you play with the hand you're dealt. I would have stayed and done the best I could to make things work but we both knew that it was over and it just needed someone to actually say it.

[Xithras]

74. Minor nitpick, but the numbers aren't actually 50%

50% is a rather useless average, and includes people who have been married 5, 6, or 7 times (statistically, this skews the numbers against people who marry once, even though statistically those people are the majority). The actual averaged percentage of first marriages that fail is about 43%

It's still high, but even that number is deceptive, and can be broken down according to age and economics. The divorce rate among middle class college graduates, for example, is somewhere around 15%-20% and is declining. The divorce rates for high school dropouts who marry before age 20 is in the mid 90% range. Men between 50 and 60 years old, marrying for the first time, have about a 60% chance of divorcing. Working class adult couples without a college degree have about a 35% chance of divorcing.

The "about half" number is just a ballpark average of all the numbers lumped together, and shouldn't be taken as gospel.

[LSK]

77. because society tries to dictate that you MUST GET MARRIED

There is just something wrong with single people over 30. People feel the clock ticking because of this bullshit and marry people they shouldn't because people were raised to thinking that they had to get married, get a house and have kids.

Screw that!

Single, 35 and happy.

:D

[LanternWaste]

79. easiest way out of an argument...

I think because it's seen as the easiest way out of an argument...

Seriously though, I think it's because not too many people have either the discipline or the maturity to fight their way through the tough problems. There's not a lot of honor or duty left anymore.

[chaska]

80. Many reasons, but here's one: Failed community...

Business has destroyed public life and made us all either misanthropes or, conversely, given us overly rosy and utterly unrealistic expectations about life with another person. In either case we haven't had the proper conditioning to cope with married life.

[guitar man]

84. because

I'm just fed up with her shit, that's all....

:hide:

[Blue Gardener]

85. Alcohol

Screws up way too many lives.

[Missy Vixen]

86. Marriage is not what it was even twenty years ago

My husband and I's marriage is completely different than our parents' marriage. We're non-traditional in some respects; in others, very traditional (he's always made the vast majority of the money, for instance.) We're not having kids. We don't observe the same rituals my parents did -- dinner on the table at a certain time, he does yardwork and I do the housework, that kind of stuff. There are a lot more discussions about decisions we are making as a couple than I ever remember my parents having.

Most of all, though, it's like we're feeling our way to a different kind of "normal," and I'd guess that's the case with everyone who's married after 1980 or so. It's more of a partnership than an ownership.

Of course, IMHO, YMMV,
Julie

[leftofthedial]

87. I blame the women

for half of each failed marriage

[Skittles]

98. because people confuse lust with love

yup

[RetroLounge]

103. Half?

Both of mine ended in divorce. So I am 100%...

Now I need to be a bigamist and marry twice just to get back to 50%.

RL

[Fire Walk With Me]

105. Americans.

[Evoman]

110. Because we don't have to. Honor and duty is bullshit.

If your not happy, your not happy. Why the hell would you stay somewhere your miserable. You have one life. ONE LIFE. And wasting it on a loveless marriage because you signed a stupid piece of paper is ridiculous.

I don't get people who don't try to change unhappy circumstances. Obviously you don't have to be happy ALL THE TIME. Nobody is. But if you have more happy times in your marriage then unhappy times, then stay. If not, leave. I think most of the time, honour and duty are used as an excuse to cover up fear.

[bleedingheart]

111. Marriages end for many reasons...

there isn't one reason...there are many.

Marrying too young is a problem
Lack of financial stability
Lack of respect
One partner outgrows another
Mental illness
Substance abuse
Child abuse
Spousal abuse
...

You name it...there are many reaons that folks say..."I can't do it anymore.."

[GoddessOfGuinness]

114. Of the half that end in divorce, what percentage

is not the first marriage for one of the partners?

[cynatnite]

115. Marrying for the wrong reasons?

Just a guess. Married my first for the wrong reasons plus he was an abusive asshole. Divorced less than two years later. Married a second time and we're going on 19 years.

[idgiehkt]

117. wonder what the average is across the board

in 'free societies' anyway. And it is a leap to call it a "problem" anyway. It's painful for those involved, but it might just be natural for some relationships to run their course. I'm not sure if it should be lumped into the category of societal problems like child abuse and violence against women, etc.