have you done a 180 in religious beliefs?

[Bertha Venation]

Poll question: have you done a 180 in religious beliefs?

I wonder if I'm unique among DUers -- I suspect that I am not.

Bertha now: lefty progressive liberal; religious-NOT, spiritual-yes, a mutt; freethinker; completely outspoken. Believe nothing without checking it out, read everything.

Bertha 'til age 30 or so: fundamentalist evangelical Christian; "bible is the inspired and inerrant word of the One True God, and Jesus is God," etc.; never ever questioned anything, not even doctors, because that would mean not exercising faith, and FAITH is what God likes. Read nothing (but the Bible), believe everything.

If you answer "YES," it's regardless of your age when you began your zealousness, regardless of the influences that led you to it. Mine began in infancy thanks to Grandma, but a lot of people get "born again" in jr. high or high school due to friends' influences, etc.

This is a vast subject, and no amount of poll responses can cover everything, so post - post - post!

Thanks for participating.

NO DISRESPECT is intended or implied toward those who believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God or that Jesus is God or that blind faith is key. I'm merely stating that I no longer subscribe to these beliefs.

FEC = Fundamentalist Evangelical Christian

[Gadave]

1. I am not a faith person

I proved to myself Santa Claus didn't exist when I was 4.

With religion, I just never give it a thought. I suppose I am Atheistic in the normal use of the a prefix. I don't think about or experience it. But, the way it is used, atheism sugests you make a claim no god exists.

I don't claim that, as I dont care enough to think that much about it.

[lovedems]

2. I grew up a "C&E catholic"

We went to church on Christmas and Easter, that was it.

When I got to college I majored in Philosophy and disavowed all religion, blamed it for wars, blamed it for shallow thinking, blamed it for intolerance. My family was horrified! They worried about me and began to second guess the whole "we didn't go to church enough but you should still believe in God!". That was pretty much my status quo until I had kids.

Then I became more spiritual, started going back to mass, had my kids baptized and all that. Our kids go to Catholic school now because I want them to at least be informed about our families religion but if they grow up and it isn't for them, hey I've been there and won't hold it against them. They can't make the right decision without knowing what the church means.

One thing, we are catholic by faith but not necessarily by conviction. What I mean by that is we are pro-civil liberties and pro-life and don't agree with alot of the morals of the church and we teach our children that. We don't have to agree with everything the church says because that is impossible. One reason I do like the catholic church is because I have never been to a mass that preaches hatred or intolerance. If that happens, we will leave the church and I will tell my kids the exact reason why.

[Bush loves Jiang]

16. You're not from Massachusetts I presume...

Or you'd be far less cordial.

[INTELBYTES]

3. Not flamebaiting but I have a serious question...

If you call yourself spiritual, of what spirit is it?

[Bertha Venation]

5. Mine. The earth's. Animals'. Other humans'.

The world's. Spirits are everywhere; the spiritual realm is its own dimension.

BTW, I didn't say I am an atheist. I believe in God. I am a follower of Christ -- don't have to believe he is God to follow him.

I just don't believe God is who the bible says God is.

[INTELBYTES]

7. Okey Dokey then!

ummm...well, if you don't believe His book to tell you who He is, then how do you know?

[Bertha Venation]

10. No offense meant, but....

...given the way you've phrased your question, I doubt I could explain it to you in a way you'd understand.

Suffice to say that I know and that's all I need to know. Self-trust goes a very, very long way once one is freed from the chains of bible-worship.

[INTELBYTES]

14. Sorry, guess my response was a bit offensive.

Wasn't trying to get in your face, just was curious as to your source.

[Bertha Venation]

17. No offense taken.

And I am my source.

[Marymarg]

4. Religious history

I was brought up by rather conservative (in religion; they were Democrats) parents, especially my dad. I never agreed with them and ultimately became a very liberal Episcopalian (still am). My sister became a Unitarian (still is).
My parents are both gone and if they were here they would be appalled at the so-called Christians who are so prominent in politics.
I guess my parents were unique in that, while very rigid in some their personal beliefs, were not so judgmental of those who disagreed with them.

[vi5]

6. I am 100% not religous in the least bit but was raised by parents who

were devoutly religious but in the most calm, sincere, reasoned, rationale and understanding manner. The last thing they were was fundamental. They were catholics who believed and still believe sincerely in the church and in their faith. However, I am vehemently anti-religion. Which is odd because my parents were not zealots so I was not rebelling or reacting against anything.

[Katarina]

8. Well...

Religion has never been something important to me. My parents shoved religion down our throats constantly when we were children. They went to the shouting/clapping/dancing/speaking in tongues church and I hated it. I was constantly being told how evil I was. I'm 38 now and I still have much resentment for my parents over this. When my husband and I were married I tried really hard to fit in with the church he went to but the hypocrisy I saw every week just added to my resentment of religion. We stopped going about 6 years ago and don't regret it at all. I don't need a religion to tell me how to treat other people. I live my life the way I think I should and I don't judge people. My husband loves me and my children are happy and that is what is important to me. When they are 38 years old hopefully they won't have the resentment toward me that I have for my parents.

[buddhamama]

9. not really

i was raised catholic but i was never a true believer or a fundamentalist. i questioned religion,god,etc., as soon as i understood enough of what i was being to taught to have doubts, and form the questions. i have been a liberal progressive freethinker most of my life.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

11. I guess I did an "18" rather than a "180"

raised as a conventional Lutheran, not fundamentalist but pretty much letter of the law. I don't remember NOT going to church

Ended up as a very liberal Epicopalian. The evolution started when I was in grad school, but I made it legal at age 41.

I never went through an atheist phase, although I did go through a totally indifferent phase.

[Bertha Venation]

15. atheist phase

Mine was borne of hurt and bitterness -- I blamed God for the evil I endured as a child. As I grew, I realized God was no more responsible than I was.

But that bitterness did make me angrily deny God's existence for many years. When the pendulum swung back, I realized NO evil can be ascribed to God -- which is why I don't believe that God's who the bible says it is.

[WhineNot]

12. Had a 2-Way with Jesus

This is no lie.

I had a 2-way conversation with Jesus Christ and He showed me He is God. I went in a heartbeat from believing to knowing.

"Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God." (Matthew 5:8)

And "blessed are those who have not seen, and yet believe." John 20:29 (Re: Doubting Tom's conversion)

[Bertha Venation]

18. Okay.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[Bill McBlueState]

20. that worked out well for you

I spent some time wondering whether God exists, and saw so little evidence I really stopped caring.

I'm glad you got such overwhelming proof when you had your "2-way."

When I have a similar experience, maybe I'll come on board. But everything that happens to me can be explained pretty well without allowing for a god. If there's a god I should be worshipping, I'd think its existence would be more obvious.

:shrug:

[Rowdyboy]

13. Other....Born and raised in the United Methodist church

which was by no means fundamentalist. Drifted away at 18. At 45 (5 years ago) I felt a need to explore my spirituality and was confirmed as an Episcopalian-a very socially liberal denomination.

[supernova]

19. Evolution more than 180

I have always been in the Presbyterian church, which is not fundamentalist. They have always taught interacting with the material yourself and seeing what you think about it. No inerrency allowed. The Bible was written by mere mortals, therefore it is subject to human foibles.

You should also know that I spent a great deal of time away from the organized church in my 20s and 30s. I wasn't angry with the church,I just wasn't interested.

Having said that, the last 10 years or so my thinking has evolved into something much more universal and encompassing. By way of shorthand, I'm somewhere between Quaker and UU now. I understand so much more now than I did then. In fact I find the Presbyterian label pinching. The conservatives of our denom are enforcing things that heretofore hadn't been an issue. The not accepting of gays is an issue to me. So at some point I may leave my denom and join a more theologically open church.

[starroute]

21. I voted "I never had exposure to religion"

I obviously knew what religion was, I just never got it pushed on me.

My mother's father gave his religion up as a boy when his father wouldn't let him read books in English on the Sabbath. One of my father's grandfathers gave up his when his wife died and he loss faith in the idea of a just god.

My mother was a natural mystic who said in her later years that she felt a deep affinity with the ideas of Krishnamurti. My father has always been a sort of philosophical skeptic.

I had a copy of The Big Golden Book of Bible Stories when I was little. I remember liking the story of Joseph, but I found the rest much less engaging than other fairy tales. When my mother asked me if I wanted to go to Sunday School with my friends, I said, "No, that stuff's just silly."

For a while, I sort of believed in a standard Judaeo-Christian god, but not in a very friendly way. I wondered, like most little kids, "If God created the universe, where did God come from?" Then I heard the phrase somewhere, "Mary, the mother of God," and thought to myself, "Okay, God had a mother and she was the one who started everything. So what sort of nerve did he have shoving her aside and hogging all the credit for himself?"

When I was in first grade, we were taught the Pilgrim's Hymn to sing at Thanksgiving -- the one that goes, "Sing praises to his name, he forgets not his own." And I thought to myself, "Where does God get off wanting to be praised for not forgetting his own name? I'm only five, and nobody praises me for not forgetting my name. I even know my own address and telephone number."

When I was about seven, I was very big on Greek myths. But when I tried to tell my friends about the Greek gods, they said, "Oh, no, God's not like that. God is an old man with a long white beard who lives up in heaven and wishes he could come down and play with the little children." I just rolled my eyes a bit and changed the subject. (If that's what they learned at the Sunday School I didn't go to, it's just as well I opted out.)

After that, religion and I pretty much went our separate ways. I did try being a deist for a while, when I was in high school and reading a lot of bodice-ripper historical novels about 18th century swashbucklers, but it didn't last.

I finally ended up as more or less an agnostic-gnostic (as Kef called it on a recent thread) -- a firm believer in the power of the unknown and the unknowable and an enemy of anybody who tries to claim they have a line on ultimate reality. And I suppose I owe it all to my parents.

[JitterbugPerfume]

24. heck , I wa born and raised in

the Assemblies og God church Cant get more fundie than that . I knew the name ASHCROFT when it referred to his damned GRAMPA

[pacifictiger]

22. I was brought up

mainstream protestant. sunday school, church, bible study etc. Learned by rote, but never a real believer - some stuff was just too out there to be fully credible to any inquiring mind.

I hated the dry facts of history in school, but in recent years have been fascinated at the interweaving of religion/war/politics stemming from the abramic religions - a timely subject in this age. Learning about the silk road implications of trade and commerce interjected for 2000yrs, then later the trade route to the east and the importance of the suez canal to maritime commerce. Similarities between Christ's sermon on the mount and Buddha's basic teachings. I wish more people had read Buddha's 4 Noble Truths & Eightfold Path. Such wisdom.
Then learning further similarities to all types of religions through the work of Joseph Campbell's "the power of myth." I am left with the opinion that ardent fundamentalists of any of the abramic religions, or others, fall into one of 2 cultish type catagories:
1)ego driven love of power, control, and/or money;
2)an unreasoning, unthinking compliant follower.

Of late I keep getting the image in my mind of Jesus turning over the tables of the merchants using the temple to sell their wares. I hear "christians" quoting endlessly from this passage or that to justify this or that. Most of them come from either the old testament or the writings of Paul, very few from Jesus himself. Why is that? I keep going back to a quote that I never hear from any of them, except pieces out of context.

"master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said to him, Thou shalt love thy God with all thy soul and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law of the prophets." (Matt 22:36-40)

If all the christian fundies loved God, (that unknowable essence that created everything in the universe and thus nature) above anything else, they would not blindly follow any particular man or teaching. And if they love their neighbor as themselves, there would have been no slavery, no KKK, no wars, no guns, healthcare for all, care for the aged, help for those born into poverty. I see a great disconnect here - I wonder why more people dont?
Must be they fit into the unreasoning and compliant follower catagory.
It is fascinating to me that the word heretic derives from the greek meaning "free thinker" and the word heathen derives from the latin meaning "country dweller." In other words, free thinking people who live close to nature are to be condemmed or converted to compliancy.
Rather telling wouldn't you say?

Jefferson also questioned many of the church teachings, and went so far as to create what is today known as the Jefferson Bible. He compiled the words of christ and the chronology of his life and left out the rest. What a man of wisdom.

[Beearewhyain]

23. Did a total 180

Dad was an Assemblies minister, now a missionary of sorts. Raised, indoctrinated, and told in no uncertain terms that to question the belief system was the surest way to "let Satan into your life".The sad thing was that as a child I actually believed it. At about 15-16, it didn't wash so I started taking a detour via Nietzsche, Camus, Socrates, ad nauseum and came to the conclusion no one has any idea what is really going on much less agree on any given point (think rift between Camus and Sartre). So now I am a happy atheist who believes (strangely enough) that ones own spiritual journey for truth is among the most important things you can do regardless of what conclusions you come up with.

[sweetheart]

25. I used to think religion was bollocks

Until i met a profoundly enlightened person at age 20. I then went on to monastic studies to become ordained in a buddhist order as a monk by my early 30's.

I no longer view religion as a matter of belief, but rather experience, and take nothing on "word". I realize enlightenment is transmitted through love, much as how a parent loves a child and nurtures it, another sort of nurturing takes place between an enlightened guru and a devotee that also transforms and awakens.

I believe all religions were formed at their origin by enlightened people, who taught directly devotees in person through direct transmission of consciosuness transformation and awakening... and that after these teachers died, students wrote down words and ideas... that latter day people might reflect and feel in tiny bits what must have been like when the teacher was alive.

I believe that there are amongst the population of the earth, a small number, less than 100 totally awakened souls, who still do this transmission this very day, and if you deeply deeply seek this transmission in living form, and are willing to surrender your ego and life to discover it, that the guru will reveal itself.

The satguru (core of awakening) is inside your own heart/mind/body and is never outside of you, yet at some times, with some people, it also takes manifestation outside of you, and may be another living soul... "the guru". You "know" when this happens... no question.

The outer guru can instruct the devotee how to liberate themself from a life that otherwise ends rotting in a nursing home somewhere, weak and dissolutioned from a hollow life. If the devotee wants with all their soul to become free, then the magic of enlightenment passes in the lineage from master to devotee... and one day, the outer guru will pass away, leaving only the inner one.

I see all world religions as the same, all various misunderstandings of the original guru, based on distortions of generations of people who misunderstood the original guru... and yet in the root of it, the power of the "root guru" the original awakening that empowers the lineage. In this regard, johnthebaptist/jesuschrist is ONE lineage, guru rimpoche (tibetan buddhism), gautama siddhartha (buddhism), krishna/rama/ramakrishna/ramana maharshi/sai baba (hinduism), lao tzu (taoism), bodhidharma (zen). Most of the enlightened lineages are unknown and off the media and history map.. yet they always have a similar historical footprint. The enlightened guru transmits living energy and power to transmute the lives of the devotees. This is always in a cult-like relationship where, similar to a child with a parent. the devotee is deeply in love with the guru. Without that love and trust, nothing transmits.

Much of religion focuses on "creating that love", yet i found it to be the most natural thing in the universe. Enlightened people serve the profound aspirations in the hearts of their devotees, and are, in a strange way, sort of married to them. This cult-like structure is root to Living transmission in all world traditions.

Devotees then leave the family cult when they mature, which varies per individual... some stay with the master, like in a university and become professors themselves... others go out to work a job... each life has its own magic. In another time in a culture that understood buddhism, i would be a monk in reclusion, meditating and writing, meditating. It is what i can do best in life, like some people dance, and others run for government office. In tibet, i would be living off of donations of food from the local villiage and teaching the villiage children how to meditate in return for that patronage. In western culture.... buddhist dharma is still growing and transforming per the way the culture works... that i write here instead. It is todays dharma.

[TreasonousBastard]

26. Gradual evolution here, too.

Raised as a Missouri Synod Lutheran, which is pretty close to fundamentalist, I could never buy into the King James Bible as the only truth worth worrying about.

If it's indeed the word of God, I always thought of the Bible as full of allegories for reasonably intelligent ancient people who knew all about Babylonian and Egyptian engineering and astronomy, but kind of missed out on paleontology, fluid dynamics, and black holes.

Partly due to a Cartesian decision that it was safer to believe, I never actually denied religion, but it became tougher and tougher to take.

I do believe that we are spritual creatures. We are all on some quest for understanding and meaning beyond science and direct observation. Rote beliefs in various gods and cosmologies can feed this need for some, and ignoring it all works for others. But, both of those ways are unfulfilling to those of us who are interested in the spritutal journey.

Augustine, Siddhartha, and George Fox made the journey, and took very different paths. This leads me to think that whatever God may be, we are all like the blind men and the elephant-- each only understanding one small part and never seeing the whole. Enlightenment is regaining that sight and being able to see the larger truth, and is limited to only a few. Perhaps none at all.

I eventually ended up as a Quaker, very comfortable with no creeds or doctrines, and not even definite beliefs in God, Satan, sin, heaven or hell. What binds us is the Light-- that which we all live in and is the essence of God that we are able to understand. The Light that guides our journey.

We do study the works of the theologians and read the journals for knowledge and ispiration, but for faith and truth we look into ourselves, where the only truth we can genuinely know resides.

[Cheswick2.0]

27. No, I think when you are raised with a kind of extreme view of religion

you are prone to go the other way. If you have been raised on a very strict religious faith you reject all organized religion because you don't have experience of any other way to be part of a positive moderate organization of religion.
I have no need to do a 180 because I never came from anything respressive or unpleasant (or impossible to believe..such as "homosexuality is a perversion").

[Nikia]

28. I have wondered if atheism and strict Fundementalsim are two sides of the

Many of the Fundamentalists who I have experienced are all or nothing people. They believe that their beliefs held by their church based on a strict interpretation of the Bible are the only correct view. I had heard one of my church elders even say that if one verse of the Bible is false, than it is all a lie. I tend to think that those who are taught that the only truth is their strict brand of religion are more likely to no longer believe in God if they come to disagree with some teachings or doubt some aspect of their religion. They later make fun of people for believeing in some "Old man in the sky" or say that God cannot exist based on some paradoxical question.

[Solomon]

29. Everything you said about yourself applies equally to me except that

my odysee started at age 18 when I left home for college. Only recently have I been able to fill the void - I study astronomy and the night sky, and it is satisfying to my spiritual needs in a way that organized religion is not.

[dawn]

30. My long journey

I was raised Catholic and went to CCD classes once a week. I knew at age 13 that it wasn't for me. I felt a connection with God (although I didn't agree that God was a "he"), and Jesus and Mary. I remember praying every night as a little girl. However, at about 13 I really realized that Catholicism was the wrong path for me. I didn't understand how the priests could say Buddhists and Hindus would go not go to heaven, that sex was evil, and I didn't like how the religion viewed women. I also was frightened by the anti-abortion videos they showed us.

I got into the punk scene and completely rebelled against everything I was taught. My parents forced me to stay in the church until I was confirmed. I left the day after my Confirmation, and never returned. I was 15.

I was agnostic for a long time, but have always felt spiritual. I couldn't explain how or why, but I was. I read alot of books about other faiths...Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, Wicca. I liked the Eastern faiths but wasn't sure I read alot about Wicca and other nature-based religions, and even joined a coven. It was a great experience, one in which I wasn't forced to feel shame to be a woman. However, it still didn't feel like the right path for me.

So I just didn't think about religion. I met my husband, who is a Protestant, and tried to go to church with him. I felt a connection with God and Jesus but I still didn't feel right being a woman in that faith. I stopped going before we got married.

A few years ago, I started reading about Buddhism again and started to meditate. I got to know a few other Western Buddhists. I feel like it is the right path for me. I still believe in Jesus, but I see him as a an enlightened being. I firmly believe that all religions are different sides of the same coin. I just think this one feels right for me. However, my parents and in-laws don't agree and sometimes pressure me to return to Catholicism and.or Christianity. I feel compassion for them but it's hard to do sometimes. I wish they would just be secure in their faith and not feel the need to try to convert me.

I still dislike it when I hear people of any faith say that faith is what makes them good people, implying that atheists and agnostics can't be good people on their own. That is so wrong. Most atheists/agnostics seem much more well-adjusted than many of my church-going friends. It's just what works for them.

[Pegleg Thd]

31. After

obtaining a Doctor of Theology degree and being lied to by leaders of several fundy 'churches' I walked away from "organized religion". Have never looked back. All they teach is lies and hypocrisy.

[Kickin_Donkey]

32. Other ...

I grew up in a family that sporadically went to a Presbyterian church, which is mainstream, and actually us kids just went to the Sunday School not the service. I suppose I went along with the program while I was a kid but "Christianity" didn't have much influence on my thinking or actions.

For a while in my mid-teens, I actually wanted to get into the Christian thing. That lasted for about a summer, after I realized I was just going through the motions and it held nothing for me. By the time I reached college I was an agnostic. Now I am an unequivocable athiest. I just intuitively feel that there's nothing "out there."

Interestingly, my mother, who was the one who took us to church, had been "born again" during her college years and was a fairly devout mainstream Christian (not an FEC). Over the years (she's now in her 60s) she became indifferent to religion and is now an athiest. I guess that what happens when you (her) marry a nominal Buddhist (my dad) who hasn't been to a religious service in probably over 50 years!

[Bertha Venation]

33. kick

:kick:
I'm learning a lot from this thread.