Dammit, STOP IT!! I have had enough!!! (obviously a friggin' RANT)

[lildreamer316]

Look, I don't want to drag another stupid GD thing in here, but that god-damed anti-porn thread I just posted in has me at the fucking wall.

Before I lose it completely, let me state that OF COURSE some women are degraded and used in the porn industry.
So are some men. The male gay porn industry is sometimes even harsher than the 'straight' one. However, I know someone that VOLUNTARILY was in it for several years...and ya know what?
He's ok.
He's not an addict.
He's not mental.
He has a wife and a son and a job and a life...
Sure, he could see there was a bad side. Sure, he could have fallen into it...but he was smart enough to keep himself on the up side, at least pretty much.
People get out of it what they put into it. Some people are used. Some people use IT. Some people love it. Some people hate it. Just like ANY.OTHER.JOB.
Sex workers could use a little help on the regulatory, union, and benefits front, not to mention, I hope some of us never have any problems with custody or you can forget ever seeing that child again - in many jurisdictions. But I digress.
You get the idea.

ANYWAY.

I'm FUCKING TIRED of seeing people say that I need to be 'SAVED' from being a stripper!!

I LOVE MY JOB! OTHER PEOPLE LOVE MY JOB!! OTHER WOMEN WHO WORK WITH ME AND WHO DO THIS ACROSS THE NATION LOVE THE JOB!!
I'M OK! THEY'RE OK!! IT'S NOT KILLING US! IT WON'T KILL YOU!!

LEAVE.

US.

THE FUCK.

ALONE.

Quit treating me like I am a delusional maniac who couldn't POSSIBLY like such a HORRIBLE, DEGRADING job such as this. Oh, the horror of going to work to sit and marvel at the psychological microcosm of the world and human interaction that unfolds before me every night. The ABSOLUTE HELL of meeting fascinating (and shitty!) people and being honest (or not!) with them! The AGONY of entertaining them and MAKING THEM HAPPY. Dancing to music. Different music. All night. For money. (sometimes with alcohol...shhhhh!!)

Oh. I must be an idiot with no brain.

Wonder how I can even type on this....whatchamacallit? Oh! KEYboard!

It's astounding that I can get out of bed in the morning, as dumb as I must be for buying into the hype and becoming a STRIPPER!!!

Quick, someone call the proper authorities and a good (FREUDIAN) analyst to get me out of my brainwashed state!

It is a LEGAL. REAL. JOB. THAT. IS. NOT. THE. WORST. THING. EVER.

By the way, *I* am the person in control in this situation. At home, and at work.
I can go to a table and sit, or get up and leave. If someone touches me, he is THROWN OUT ON HIS ASS. If he isn't; I am free to leave that club and go to another one. If someone is rude, I can leave, or find a more creative way to turn the situation around(which is really a whole lot of fun..tyring to turn a sourpuss or control freak into a money-paying polite customer...what a challenge!).
It's called HAVING A DIALOG and THINKING ON ONE'S FEET.

Y'know - USEFUL SHIT that maybe OUR PRESIDENT could have learned.

But *I*'m the dumb one. The repressed one. The one who's being used and controlled.

Okay.

:rant:

Think about this: You can only be shocked and titillated by someone's nakedness for so long. Then what?
Here's what: you have to face your true self, and the other person has to face themselves also. There is literally NOTHING LEFT BETWEEN YOU except...........YOURSELVES.
Then the truth comes out. It can be beautiful, or ugly....but it's there.

From a board of my fellows:

"Seduction is a game of psychology, not beauty, and it is within the grasp of any person to become a master at the game." ?

"The true mettle of a man is revealed when he enters a strip club and feels he's in a world of no consequence."Bridgette

"I came into this world naked, I might as well work naked, and I will die naked. Society is the reason we wear clothing."
Gemini_Syn

"I read once that women have to choose at some point whether to belong to the "lady class" or the "whore class." The first group has respect and protection, but no freedom; the second group has freedom, but no respect or protection. As strippers, we belong to the whore class."Yekhefah

"I want to entertain people who wish to be entertained, not be an expensive but poor substitute for someone who can't find themselves a prostitute." Asurfael

"I still stand by what I said. Since stupidity can't be punishable by law, there has to be equally effective ways of removing stupid people from society."AlexxaHex


Ahhhh. Such dumbasses.:sarcasm:

[Indi Guy]

1. Porn is not allowed on DU

...for good reason.

[libnnc]

2. I saw that thread.

And I stayed out of it. Makes my head explode too.

It's already exploded once tonight (one person in GD still thinks making "gay" quips is hi-larious).

I hear ya...

[Indi Guy]

3. Dang it! Now I have to go to GD to see what you folks are talking about. nt

[Ellen Forradalom]

4. If you like what you do

and you're good at it, who am I to say otherwise? :shrug:

I'm a Perl programmer and operations support person. I like what I do too. I too have to have a dialog and think on my feet to turn cranky users into happy people.

[Der Blaue Engel]

5. I don't even look at those threads anymore

I've tried sharing the perspectives of my friends in the sex industry, or discussing my own erotica, and I just get accused of being a man. :eyes:

[idgiehkt]

45. I don't either

but just because of the attitudes of some of the pro-porn men on those threads. I think the strident feminists mean well, but the over-arching viciousness and misogyny I pick up on from so many of the pro-porn men towards the anti's skanks me out and I end up feeling like I need about 27 showers to 'get it off me'...I feel like what they are arguing for is the right of their dick to be happy; I don't feel like they see the sex worker as any more human than some of the people do who are 'anti-' and would shut down the industry. It's disturbing to me...'icky' is the word that comes to mind.

[quip]

6. I am a complete ignoramus on this topic, so please excuse my ignorance at the outset, but

I have a question for you. For you personally, would there be a difference between stripping and getting paid to have sex on camera, or are they equal choices?

TIA

:-)

[lildreamer316]

13. Personally?Hmm.

I think I may have to PM you my answer.

[Heidi]

7. You know how I feel about that topic.

Thanks for ranting, gf. :yourock:

:loveya: :hug:

[China_cat]

8. Hang in there, sweetie.

I was a stripper in my much younger days and, like you, I loved it. I also loved the pay. And I was good. :party:

Like you, I've heard all the putdowns too. Not much you can do about them but come up with some of your own. It will ever be such. When it isn't, stripping as a job will go the way of the dodo.

[TorchTheWitch]

9. AMEN and AMEN!!!

Beautiful rant! I know exactly what you mean. Where oh where oh WHERE do people get off making pronouncements about a job they know NOTHING about and the people that do it??? I swear the biggest fuck-ups and idiots I ever met were in some other job than this one!

[Lady Freedom]

10. WOW! What a great rant!

When you are ready to retire from the sex industry, May I suggest writing editorials? You have the gift!

[Connonym]

11. any female sexualization is a violation, don't you know that?

tell someone you enjoy sex without emotional attachment and they pat your hand and tell you that you're delusional. Because obviously women aren't capable of being sexual without being victimized. :eyes: Ridiculous how puritanical people are, isn't it?

[idgiehkt]

44. true

and no one ever talks about how much of marital sex is performed without 'emotional attachment', lol.

[6000eliot]

12. Most of the feminist anti-porn theories fall apart when they are applied to gay

male pornography, I find. If your argument doesn't apply to all pornography, you shouldn't attempt to apply it that way.

[lildreamer316]

14. Exactly.

My friend's experience seems to have been fine - except there was a bit of a separation between his sexual feelings and his emotions for awhile. That was something it took him a bit to reconcile again, but I think I understand that perfectly.
Other than that, it was a well-paying job that fit his personality at the time. And that's about it...

[cuke]

15. I think you misunderstood the OP

"some women are degraded and used in the porn industry"

That is exactly what the OP was talking about. It was not anti-porn.

[lildreamer316]

33. I wasn't really directing it straight at the OP.

There were several posters that carried on to stronger absolute statements about the whole profession and associated ones that I was really ranting about...

....which is why I ranted here, instead of there.

[kedrys]

16. Great rant!

I had a huge crush on a young lady once (we met at a "regular" dance club), and she was one of the smartest, most delightful people I've ever met. I was floored that she'd even talk to me, frankly. One of her girlfriends mentioned that she was a stripper, and my reaction was basically "really? cool!"

We went out a couple of times, and a few weeks later she didn't show up at the club. Her friend told me she'd been busted in a police raid. I never saw her after that.

What I got out of it:

1. 100% of the strippers I've personally met are people I'd be privileged to hang out with.
2. I wish I'd seen her dance at work, because I get a kick out of watching people do something they're really good at, whether it be fixing a car engine, working with an electron microscope, or whatever.
3. I hate the cops when they pull stupid shit like enforcing dumbass laws and fucking with people they should leave the fuck alone.

You're lucky to be making a living doing something you love. I salute you.

[unpossibles]

17. good for you!!!

When I worked in restaurants (12+ year veteran!), I had a friend who was a stripper and who used to work food tell me that she felt more abused and degraded as a food worker both by management and by customers. In restaurants, people treated her like crap every day and spoke to her as if she were stupid. When she got into stripping (and she had done phone sex jobs as well), she seldom encountered that.

Sure, there were customers who were pigs, but it was far less frequent than what she had encountered at restaurants and bars, where she'd had guys grab her ass or legs and think they could get away with murder. Those things they could not get away with in a strip club because they'd be thrown out on their ears - in other words, there were consequences.

Great post!

[cobalt1999]

18. I loved your rant.

Unfortunately, there are as many people who judge others on the left as on the right and those people are always out to save or convert the "uneducated".

As long as you are in control of your situation and enjoy it, good for you.

[Rabrrrrrr]

19. The quote from Yekhefah is spot on perfect!

It's funny how even so many liberals buy into the sick and immature American thought about sex, sexuality, and bodies: that our bodies are icky, that sex is taboo, that porn is evil rotten rotten rotten evil nasty rotten scary, and so forth.

This country has never had a mature view of sexuality or our bodies, and probably never will.

[MissMillie]

21. I think that's an unfair assessment

Many of us anti-porn people don't have a problem w/ sex or w/ bodies.

I dream of a society that values lildreamer for more than what she looks like w/ her clothes off.

And let me be clear, I don't want to ban or outlaw porn.

I just wish there were a way to decrease demand. Make our young people understand what's really at stake when they're willing to pay to it.

[TorchTheWitch]

43. Another misconception

"I dream of a society that values lildreamer for more than what she looks like w/ her clothes off."

That's what the layperson always seems to think about this job... that it's all about being naked or nearly so and looks. It isn't. The best looking dancer in the club is almost never the highest earner. The highest earner is always the dancer who looks good, is interesting to talk to, has a sense of humor, an engaging personality and is good at sales.

The average strip club customer is not looking for eye-candy, but an attractive woman to pay attention to them and hang on their every word. Men can get plenty of an eyefull of the most stunning of women in the most sexually blatant of ways right in the comfort of their own home with internet and videos... when they go to the strip club, they're looking for attention from a real live woman, not just looking AT a real live woman.

[Rabrrrrrr]

49. I don't understand what you are saying.

You say you have no problem with sex or bodies.

But then you say you want a society that values people for more than what they look like naked - which is to reduce stripping to its most primal element and denude it (pun intended) of everything else; to wit, you can't go beyond that idea that stripping is about a naked body and see it in its totality, which is, as I said in the post to which you responded, a sign of a culture that has an immature and unhealthy idea of sex and sexuality and our bodies.

And let go on - seriously, what's the difference (moral, ethical, social) between a woman earning money because she's a good stripper (that is, has a talent that people are willing to pay for; which, in your denuded version, is just a naked body) and a woman earning money because of the power of her brain, or the abilities of her hands to produce art, or work in a factory, or make bread; or a woman making money because of the power of her administrative prowess, or her ability to convince people to buy houses, perfume, or bathtubs?

No matter what we do for money, there is an element of selling oneself - why is stripping so goddamned awful to you that you want it ended, but other jobs/money-making-schema are not?

And what is 'really at stake' when people are willing to pay to see a stripper? I'm very curious to hear that answer, because I can't think of anything that is 'really at stake'.

[Pithlet]

53. I don't know if it's a moral, ethical or social difference

But, most of those other things you mentioned can be done successfully past the age of 25 or 30. I don't think women who choose to strip are doing anything wrong, I just wouldn't equate her profession with just any other. I'd equate stripping with modeling, or any other profession that requires little other than being a young woman with good looks. Even just being young won't cut it. If you're pimply faced, or have a weak chin, or huge nose, or protruding teeth, or very unmanageable hair, you likely won't cut it, especially if you want to make a lot of money. Surgery could fix some of those things, but some people would never cut it no matter what procedures they elected to have. You can't aspire to be a young woman with looks. You're either a young woman with good looks or you aren't. If a good looking young woman wants to translate that into some bucks, I say more power to her. I'd just advise her to train for a backup career when the good looking youth well runs dry, as it invariably will, unless she's one of the lucky few who makes enough money to set her up for life.

[BarenakedLady]

20. Good on ya

:applause:

[alarimer]

22. Just because you are not exploited doesn't mean others aren't

The porn industry is frankly disgusting and degrading. I just do not get that people do it by choice, be treated like a piece of meat,. It's just very sad to me. What happens when they get to "old"? They have nothing to fall back on.

[Marrah_G]

24. Then don't buy it or watch it

But frankly I find your telling other women how they should behave to be the disgusting thing.

[GirlinContempt]

26. She said that.

What I find sad is your assumption that because some people do this, these people are then unable to do anything else.
Taking off your clothes doesn't also leave you unable to think. Nudity and brains are not mutually exclusive.

[BuddhaGirl]

32. if it's "disgusting and degrading" then don't watch it

and don't judge others who do. Many, many people WANT to be in it, and they are NOT exploited.

Jesus, why is our society still so prudish about sex?? :eyes:

[Marrah_G]

23. I'm on your side on this one!

[Pithlet]

25. It's the extremists on both sides that make this discussion impossible.

If you had just posted this, without the rest: et me state that OF COURSE some women are degraded and used in the porn industry. then suddenly you're a prude who hates sex. I find the vast majority know that what I just quoted from you is true. But, you post that, then the extreme pro-porn side attacks you, then the extreme on the other side jumps to your defense, then everyone who's closer to the middle takes a side and starts duking it out. It's ridiculous. Most of us are entirely reasonable and rational on this subject, and we're roped into these stupid battles and in the heat of battle mistakenly label other people when we knee jerk and assume they're anti-sex prude or woman hating porndog when the reality is their viewpoint isn't much different then our own.

[momophile]

27. I think you are very brave

I haven't read all the anti-porn threads so I haven't seen the way people attack you or the way you handle it. But I'd just like to say, you go girl! You're thread here is very good and I support you.

[IndianaJones]

28. it may not be my biggest job, as it is for Chris Rock, but keeping my daughters off the pole...

is high on the list.

[MissMillie]

29. precisely

:thumbsup:

[IndianaJones]

31. the entire debate is goofy. when it boils down to it, virtually no one...

wants their children, siblings, whatever, involved in the sex industry.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

46. But how many people would be honest enough to admit it?

I think women should be free to do what they want, but stripper "or" hooker are not two options I would choose for my child or any child.

[idgiehkt]

47. yes the old pater familias thing

it doesn't matter what your relatives do so much as if you patronize the sex industry in any way shape or form. If you look at porn, you know, you might as well stfu because every woman in the pics is someone else's child or sister.

[plcdude]

30. I lurked

through that thread since a couple of days ago I had a thread on a study that suggested that there was no relationship to porn and violent sexual behavior. You can only keep saying the truth and let the truth be source of your freedom. You did a wonderful job as well as some other women who are actually involved in the industry did. Perhaps some will begin to respect others and even more work to understand how things can be better. So thank you for thoughts and courage to say them. Hang in there.

[woo me with science]

34. It always amazes me, how prevalent the "woman as victim" obsession

is on a progressive website.

Unfortunately, there is a contingent of neo-Victorians who seem locked into the stereotype (fantasy?) of man as the abuser, woman as the victim, and sex as the weapon.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

35. Are they STILL obsessing about porn over there?

Geeee-zus, I thought that was August's cause of the month. I guess we need another college kid to get tazered or something to distract them.

[MrScorpio]

36. Give 'em hell. Lildreamer

BTW, I'm always at my best behavior in strip clubs.

Girl's gotta make a living, and the last thing they need from me is to be a grabby asshole to them.

[SarahB]

37. I don't blame you one bit.

I get so tired of the repressive crap in our culture. Is nudity all that damned shocking? Seriously.

And any sex between consenting adults? Whether it's filmed or whatever the fuck anyone does or enjoys is their business. People need to learn to enjoy their own sex lives and butt out of other people's turn ons, kinks, and preferences (again, involving consenting adults obviously).

[SeattleGirl]

38. Right on!

I hate it when I read stuff about porn where the writer assumes that everyone in the industry is there against their will, is coerced, is weak, is addicted, etc. Bullshit.

Many people are in the industry, or are strippers, or whatever, BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE.

[crim son]

39. You are personally responsible

for enlightening me on this topic, months and months (maybe years) ago. Because of you I think of the whole industry differently. There are people in business who prostitute themselves every day yet we make no comment. A woman dares to entertain using her most natural gifts and that's an issue. I don't get it.

[Deep13]

42. Interesting point.

A stripper and a laborer both rent out their bodies for money. Both rely on physical attributes to make a living. Neither is necessarily respected as a person for who he or she is. Yet, somehow, only the woman is sinful. I think restrictions on this kind of thing are gender-based employment discrimination. I can use my upper body strength to make a living if I need to. I woman really can't. I knew guys in college who worked construction during the summer to pay for college. So how were the girls supposed to do it? I wasn't comfortable working construction, so I punched a cash register for less money. I'm sure not all women are will to be strippers. For those that are, however, why should be take away that resource.

[lildreamer316]

51. I am honored.

I do want to say, again, that there are many who fit the stereotype. Don't get me wrong. But there are an increasing number of those of us who don't. The business matures and grows, just like anything else, and I began to see hope for its' progress a number of years ago.
There is a way that this could be beneficial to many, and detrimental to few, if it was handled correctly, and understood better. The start is to see it as a business model, and nothing else. If you were to apply the pure rules of business to this industry, it would help it immensely.
But that is a long, long story and not to the point.
I am glad I helped you understand there is more to the story. I myself learned this lesson about other things I had opinons on before. It's always an eye-opener.

The bottom line: It's not about sex, in the end. That's what gets so many confused.

((((HUGS)))

Hope you are well.

[riverdeep]

40. For those who can function fine in it, go for it.

I can't understand it myself, but I suppose there's lot's of choices people make I can't understand. To me, stripping is about as far away as you can get from sex, it's about commodity. I would also do everything I could to discourage my daughter from being part of this industry.

The thread, which I only glanced at-you've read one porn thread, pro or con, you've read 'em all, was directed at most people within it who don't feel fine with it.

[Deep13]

41. Testify, Sister!!

:yourock: :headbang: :applause: :patriot:

Seriously, these stupid laws like the one just passed by the legislature in Ohio to protect us from nipples are the very definition of governmental overreaching. If someone else is ashamed to be a human animal and wants to think of himself or herself as dirty, wicked or shameful then by all means feel free to wall yourself in. Don't force your bronze-age views on others. You don't have a property interest in your daughter. Neurotic chastity is not a virtue. I have to wonder about people who believe they were made by god and then blame themselves for normal desires instilled in us by that creator.

I had an interesting talk with my employer, the local district attorney about a week ago. I walked into a discussion on the new protect-us-from-nipples law. The boss said he did not think there were any such places in that county. I said there was one near my house. He said it isn't all-nude is it? I said it was. He asked if I had ever been in there. I said I had. He then said not to go into strip clubs within the county. Obviously he was concerned about political repercussions in this Bible-thumping county. Point of fact, I went in for 20 minutes, got bored and left. (Sorry, but it's true. Thanks Paxil.)

I later asked him what other lawful, harmless activities I should avoid. He was very considerate. He said anyplace I would be embarrassed to be found in. I said, you mean anyplace other people would be embarrassed to be found in. He said anyplace that I wouldn't want my mother knowing about. I reminded him I grew up back East and the only place I was reluctant to talk about was the gun club. A lot of people think that is immoral. Unlike nipples, guns really are dangerous. Basically, I have to keep in mind local people's paranoia that Satan is trying to get into our souls through our wide eyes and open mouths.

When I was in college, going to a strip club was fun. Now they all look like teen-aged children to me. That kind of kills it.

[MiniMandaRuth]

48. Bravo.

Bra-fucking-vo.

It's people like you that give me hope for the adult (no pun intended) world.

[Withywindle]

50. Great rant! Go you!

The thing I don't understand about some of the posts there...some people really, really, really don't GET that some women enjoy their jobs as adult entertainers. A lot. It's very possible. Exhibitionism is an extremely common...well, it's so common I wouldn't even call it a kink or a fetish...let's say turn-on. What's so awful about exhibitionists and voyeurs making each other happy? And why is it such a terrible thing to do for a living? Why is it worse to pay someone who's a good dancer with a nice body to strip than it is to pay someone with a nice voice to sing? And why is public sexuality supposed to be inherently degrading to women and not to men? I don't GET that mentality, personally. And I don't think I want to.

I admire strippers. It's a fantasy of mine, but I'm too nerdy and uncoordinated. I just write smut as a hobby.

[lildreamer316]

52. Thanks, everyone. I am slightly remorseful

for posting (that southern lady training kicking in); but I needed to get it out.
I'm gonna be quiet for awhile now, and observe.

I cannot thank you all enough for the supportive statements. I will remember them all when I am working...I believe it will help me very much.

[Withywindle]

54. Remorseful? Nah, don't be.

A southern lady knows when to blow her top and kick ass.

I think the most insulting thing about the patronizing crusaders is the way, deep down inside, they buy into the worst belief about women in the adult business: that they become "damaged" and really, really ARE brainless dolls in some way.

I admire the intelligence and soul you bring to your writing about your work. I just want you to know that.

[libnnc]

55. Don't you dare be quiet.

Keep on keeping on.



YOU are a BRILLIANT superstar who "gets it".

Carry on.