VEGANS (& meat eaters too): A question...

[appal_jack]

I am curious about the theory that one's ability to thrive on a vegetarian or vegan diet may be linked to one's blood type and/or other genetic factors. While I haven't read any of the books on the topic (Eat Right for Your Blood Type is one I have glanced at: there are at least several others), I was talking to a nurse friend of mine, and she seemed to believe at least some of the theory.

If my understanding of the theory is not completely askew, then I think that Type O+'s are the most meat-dependent, and Type AB-'s are most able to thrive on veganism, with various gradations in-between. It occurred to me that the DU Lounge provides an excellent cross-sample of various dietary choices.

So, if you would, please post your dietary lifestyle, your blood type (and you thought the 'post your ss#' threads were intrusive...:P) and your thoughts on how your diet is affecting your health.

Here's mine:
Type O+
Tried veganism for around four years, but always had awful gas and low energy (my gut doesn't apparently tolerate many types of beans (garbanzos are the worst for me: black beans are OK), nor wheat products, both of which I ate a lot of while vegan). Now I am back to omnivory, though I still eat plenty of tempeh, vegetables, occasional tofu, etc. Energy level is much higher than my vegan days, though I have put on a few extra pounds lately (more due to my desk job than anything else I think).

So, how about y'all?

-app

[Shakespeare]

1. I think there's something to it.

And cancer researchers apparently do, too, because that's where a lot of burgeoning research is happening right now.

I'm an O+.

[appal_jack]

2. cool, I hadn't seen any of the cancer data yet

What have they been finding on the diet/blood-type/cancer front?

Are you an omnivorous O+?

-app

[supernova]

3. I'm an omnivore

and I'm A+, which according to ER4YT purposes, I'm supposed to be vegetarian. But I couldn't survive that way.

And I cannot eat grains or dairy, I at least have a sensitivity to them and feel better when they are out of my menu. I do very well on fowl, fish, low GI veggies and fruits, and nuts.

[appal_jack]

8. well, that's one hole in the ER4YT theory

Glad to hear that you have found a mix of foods that work for you! Had you tried to follow ER4YT, only to find that its prescriptions didn't fit?

I do quite well on dairy, but on the grains front, brown rice and occasional quinoa or oats are about all I can take. More grains than that, and I get irritable and tired.

Fruits (esp. oranges this time of year) and greens (esp. spinach, kale, mustard, pac choi, etc...) are also wonderful foods for me.

-app

[Tuesday Afternoon]

4. O+ here

Have To HAVE meat. More so at certain times of the month.

[Infomaniac]

5. I know that feeling.

It's the only time I eat red meat.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

43. I have seen that book. A friend of mine read it. Turns out she

was diabetic. I don't know about the validity of it. I just know that my body seems to crave red meat at a certain time of the month. That is all. As for the rest of my diet. I try to eat organic and homegrown as much as possible. Lots of frutis and vegetables and nuts and grains.

[alphafemale]

44. O+ here. Tried veg for awhile and began to have dreams of running down game with wolves.

I still eat much less meat then I used to, but when your body's longing invades your sub-conscious to cry out for it.... :shrug:

We are also going to try to find a local farmer rather than participate in factory farming.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

45. Yes. I have a co-op in the area.

I try to live as close to the land (my own and my neighbor's) as possible.

[LeftyMom]

6. I'm an O+, and I've been vegan for five and a half very healthy years.

ERFYT has no study to support it, and there's been plenty of time to do one. Twice the author has said he was in the midst of one but no results were ever published, which leads me to believe his own studies didn't support his claims.

My personal experience is that my health suffers when I eat meat, dairy and eggs (less so with eggs, but I never liked them so I only ate them cooked into baked goods,) and that my asthma, skin disorders and digestive complaints all improved to the point where they no longer needed medication when I moved to a vegan diet.

[appal_jack]

9. right on!

I strongly suspect that the foods we thrive on (or suffer from) are related to many more factors than just blood type, but figured I'd ask about this specifically since there have been those books published (however poorly documented they may be...).

Do you think that your allergies to meat and dairy are to the foods themselves, or the rather toxic nature of much of those kinds of foods? Bioaccumulation of fat-soluble toxins is something that everyone should be aware of... My own attempt at veganism stemmed largely from environmental concerns at a time when I lived in a city and could not afford or find too much organic/local. Now, I consider myself very fortunate to be able to buy raw milk from a local dairy, meats and eggs from farmers who raise 100% on pasture. This mitigates my concerns about bioaccumulation of toxins, though the Ohio valley coal plants, etc. still send plenty of nasties to settle even on our local pastures.

This thread is NOT an attempt to bash veganism (or any other dietary choice), as I already know that there are plenty of people thriving on vegan diets (I've seen the pictures of FLvegan's biceps, and mine will probably never get that big, no matter what I eat). But I am VERY curious about how and why those differences in ideal diets arise...

-app

[LeftyMom]

14. I wouldn't say that I have an allergy, except in the case of dairy.

Even miniscule of dairy get me snotty and nauseated and give me GI issues (once I noticed a supposedly dairy free product left me with the constellation of symptoms I get when I eat dairy, and set it in the back of the fridge until I had time to look into it, and before I could the product was recalled because it had trace dairy contamination.) As a result I have to be very picky not only about what I eat but about making sure my food is cooked on separate pans, things are sauteed in oil and not butter, that people realize that no cheese means no parmesean too, etc. Limits my dining options, I tend to stick to the few places I trust to not screw that up.

With the meat? I'm guessing it's the meat itself. When I quiet eating it I went from needing my rescue inhaler several times a day to needing it maybe once or twice a week (and then not at all when I quit eating dairy) and I assume any effect from toxins of some sort would probably have manifested itself differently and resolved itself more slowly after exposure ceased.

[appal_jack]

33. that's quite a contrast

I think that the thirty-odd responses to this thread so far indicate that food REALLY matters, a whole lot, for our health & well-being. And even moreso, that the general recommendations that most of accept as true (e.g.- seek natural, whole, relatively unprocessed foods, avoid hydrog. oil, etc.) are only the beginning. Nuts are great for many, but poison for some. Same goes for dairy, meat, wheat, etc. All can be healthy parts of a diet for a portion of the population, but blanket statements about any of them would be untrue.

I couldn't imagine having to grab an inhaler several times a day. I'm really glad to hear that the vegan diet facilitated your better health!

-app

[Infomaniac]

7. I'm O+

I've tried adding more vegan and vegetarian options to my diet and have lost 40+ plus pounds since August. I stick with chicken and fish for meat mostly. I eat red meat about twice a month. Whole grains. Vegan patties. Beans and rice. Don't do much dairy either. Usually just yogurt and the occasional piece of cheese. I think variety and portion control are what's helping me lose the weight.

[appal_jack]

10. wow, congratulations!

Losing 40 lbs. is quite an accomplishment! The extra 15 lbs. I have accumulated due to this sedentary job seem rather daunting, but I am determined to exercise more... Sounds like you have found a mix of foods that work for you.

-app

[Infomaniac]

13. Thanks!

My basic plan is to take my target weight and multiple it by 13. That's the number of calories I can eat in a day and lose weight. I'm losing 6 to 7 pounds now every 4 weeks. My only exercise is walking. I walk for 20 minutes every day. It's very easy. I eat what I want. I just eat less of everything.

[Lyric]

11. I'm O+ and I could never be vegan

I literally feel ill if I don't eat enough meat, and after my gallbladder removal, I have not been able to tolerate much in the way of beans and soy products. It's funny--the doc who did my surgery recommended a low-fat, low-protein diet for the first 6 weeks after the procedure. I managed it for 3 weeks, but constantly felt ill and miserable and had *zero* energy. One day I ate a slice of pizza with chicken breast and spinach, and I felt *immediately* better--the difference was nothing short of miraculous. I told the doc and she said that she'd seen other people post-cholecystectomy who did better with some extra protein and fat than other people did. It just depends on the person.

I don't believe that any of this has to do with blood type, but I *do* think that there's a good chance that scientific research will show that different humans are genetically wired to process different foods--some people do better with more/less protein, some with more/less fat, and some with more/less carbs. In my personal experience, I feel best with a breakdown of 30-40% of my calories from meat, 15% from fats, and the remaining calories from carbs. I have to practically force my son to eat carbs--he'd be perfectly happy to eat nothing but veggies, fruit, meat, cheese and eggs if I let him.

[ThomCat]

12. I'm O+ and I'm about to hit 20 years as a vegan.

:shrug:

[appal_jack]

17. Cool: I take it you find it worthwhile...

Twenty years counts as a workable long-term strategy in my book.

My main attempt at a vegan diet was when I lived in NYC (Staten Island in fact) in the late 1980's (being vegan on S.I. back then was rather unusual - were you there then too?). Eating low on the food chain seemed to make even more sense when I was nestled in a metropolis like that. Once I got out to a rural location, the low on the food chain imperative was not quite so strong...

-app

[ThomCat]

18. I only came here in 1995.

So we missed each other. :(

It's still amazingly rare for anyone on Staten Island to be a vegetarian or vegan. Just try to get a meal at a restaurant out there. I eat in Manhattan every day.

I can't imagine ever eating meat again. I see it or smell it and it just isn't food. At some point, being a veggie becomes just part of who you are. I definitely reached that point a while ago.

[appal_jack]

36. shucks!

My folks were there until 2005 (West Brighton), so I visited occasionally, but I had fallen out of touch with most of Staten Island long before then.

When I was in high school, and hanging with the punk and hippie anarchists of the lower east side, we would walk from Thompkins Sq. Park (long haul, but we were too poor or cheap to pay for the subway, and when the weather was good, turnstile-hopping seemed like an unnecessary risk, even for anarchists I guess) down to House of Vegetarian on Mott St., 'cuz that was the place that EVERYONE could find something they liked.

The worst part for me being a kid who attended school in Manhattan but lived on S.I. was running for those late-night ferries, and usually missing them, then waiting an hour in a urine-stinking ferry terminal, only to get scolded by mom for being late and keeping her up worrying when I finally got home. :(

I still love Snug Harbor though, and a few other S.I. locations. But other than Denino's Pizza, none of them are culinary.

-app

[ThomCat]

37. One improvement is that they entirely rebuilt the ferry terminals

on both sides. They're MUCH larger, cleaner, and no longer look municipal.

The late night schedule still sucks though. That hasn't changed. :P

[flvegan]

23. w00t, ThomCat!!!!

You got me by 13 years, and I'm sitting here in awe of you.

:thumbsup:

[ThomCat]

25. That's mutual.

I wish I could do what you do for animals. :thumbsup:

[flvegan]

29. Don't wish.

Inspire.

Next cat I boost...his/her name is Thom.

[ThomCat]

31. Awesome!

I'll sponsor that cat. Let me know if there are vet/care costs and where to send the check. :)

[Sanity Claws]

15. I'm O positive; tried vegetarianism.

I tried it for about 10 months and had terrible gas. I also had problems with mucus -- I was always congested. I then developed a sinus infection and bronchitis, the only time in my life. After that, I went back to meat and felt better. I told my doctor about my change in diet and she said, Some people do better with meat.
I think I'm one of those people. I eat some meat just about everyday but not a whole lot. I eat lots of vegetables, fruit, and some grains.
I think there is something to the blood type diet.

[LeftyMom]

16. Were you eating more dairy than normal?

I think that's the problem in a lot of cases where people don't do well on vegetarian diets, they start subbing dairy for meat. Just wondering because the gas, mucus and sinus issues can all be allergy symptoms generally but are really pretty typical of sensitivity to dairy.

[Sanity Claws]

19. yes

I used a lot more dairy. In mre recent years, I've learbed I'm sensitive to wheat. I have no interest in trying vegetarianism again. Omitting dairy as well as meat and wheat would make it very difficult to eat.

[LeftyMom]

22. I have a vegan coworker who has celiac and a soy allergy to boot.

Grain allergies certainly do complicate things. I think after learning to navigate her allergies, she must not have had a real hard time getting her degree in nutrition, the poor thing.

[appal_jack]

24. my experiences were/are rather similar

Congestion is not normally a problem for me (and never connected to dairy in my case: I could eat cheese at every meal and still breathe free, though I might weigh 400 lbs. if I did...), but too much bread, and I sometimes turn into a snot-monster. I also had more bronchitis back in my vegan days.

Needless to say, I've been avoiding bread/wheat since discovering this. Alas, no pastafarianism for me. :cry:


-app

[flvegan]

20. That theory is largely crap.

Blood type and genetics are important, but it all comes down to nutrition. One could make the same argument about a diabetic

I can't stress this enough...NUTRITION, NUTRITION, NUTRITION!!!! .

People know what friggin GAS to put in the ole family truckster, but they have no clue what to put in the ole mouth. Problem is, folks don't listen to their body. No doctor will give you the feedback that your own damn body will.

Shit like this makes me want to scream.

[appal_jack]

30. word!

"Problem is, folks don't listen to their body. No doctor will give you the feedback that your own damn body will."

Hear hear!

The best thing I got out of my varying dietary self-experiments is a raised awareness of what "food" is and how it affects me. But it took a long time for me to get there (and many such experiments: strict-vegan from 1987-1991, but I still ate some white flour & other shit back then; lacto-ovo-veg from 1992-1995, with an increased awareness of how bad white/processed foods generally are, omnivorous ever since, with a still-growing focus on whole foods, local and organic whenever possible).

All along the way, my body was giving me feedback, but I didn't know to listen to it until around 2000 or so. Until then, I was relying too much on 'experts' who did not have a clue about what was going on inside of me. :shrug:

-app

ps - Sorry to induce scream-urges flvegan (as if the NH primary wasn't enough for one night). I had dismissed the ER4YT theory as bunk (without reading any of the books) until that conversation with my friend (the nurse I mention above, who has a pretty sensible head about many health issues) said that she thought there could be something to this theory.

[flvegan]

32. Your biggest success is your self-awareness.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I could tell you that veganism is the only way. Big agenda. Whoooo!!!

I don't buy ERforYT. Not at all. However, it has its place. It does raise a certain awareness as to nutrition. Problem is, "your type" doesn't really take much into consideration.

[unpossibles]

50. I agree. as for cravings, I used to eat a lot of meat growing up (and a lot of veggies)

and what made me able to give it up about 18 years ago was two things:

1 - poverty. I simply could not afford meat very often and had cut back a LOT without even really thinking about it.

2 - working in a restaurant which makes everything from scratch. Maybe it was the combination of at this point barely eating meat (see #1) with having to clean chicken parts and make stock and sausages, etc., but... I literally could not stomach the thought of eating it any more. It got to me to the point that I got grossed out by the mere thought of meat for the first 4-5 years, and I am almost impossible to gross out. The smell was the worst, and I could easily detect it in foods which my family and friends tried to slip me (thanks, dad!), usually by the smell and greasiness more than the taste.

I will say I feel a lot better than I used to, and I seldom get sick. Going vegetarian had other effects on me as well, in that it made me much more conscious of what I ate, and going back to #1 again, I could not afford a lot of the processed vegetarian junk food, so started trying to eat much more simply from as basic ingredients as I could, and as time would allow. Same goes for dairy - while I never went vegan for more than about 6 months at a time, I don't eat a lot of dairy or eggs, and am a LOT more aware of the weird crap that is in all kinds of food now. That said, I am also far less strict than I used to be in that meat doesn't gross me out any more even though I still don't eat it.

There also weren't a whole lot of options in the stores back then. So yeah, I eat some tofu and "fake meats" occasionally, but not that often. I sometimes think those experiences make me not crave it at all - even to the point where when someone says how hard it is to not eat meat, I am sympathetic but don't really understand it. I also make it a point to not ever tell people what to eat or not eat, although I will discuss it if someone brings it up, or in related topics, such as how it affects the environment. Mainly because I am sick of the past 18 years of people giving me shit for my diet.

Honestly, I forget what my blood type is. I want to say B+, but I am not sure, nor do I think it matters.

[IzaSparrow]

21. type O+...lactoovovegetarian

and a competitive cyclist. i'm never really sick.

[ThomCat]

26. Woo Hoo!

I know you were a good guy when I met you. :)

[IzaSparrow]

27. i'm just psyched i have the same blood type as The Legend, Thomcat

:toast:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

28. I get lightheaded and grouchy if I have to eat vegan for too long

and I don't feel satisfied, no matter how much I eat.

I'm blood type O+.

[havocmom]

34. A- here. Can go long periods without meat, but must have dairy

If eating some meat, don't need as much milk. Love and do well on lentils as primary protein source.

Love veggies. Not quite as fond of fruit. Do well on lots of veggies, brown rice, lentils and some dairy

I also seem to have cravings for high acid foods. Been known to carry around a small bottle of vinegar.

Don't like sodas at all. Had to force myself to drink coffee (migraines and cluster headaches in younger years) Crave sugar badly but it makes me sluggish (thinkin that's why I crave it - self medication - lots of alcoholics in my clan, but I am OK about liquid sugars)

Anybody know if cravings for fish, and shell fish mean anything besides a zinc binge? Am wondering if my thyroid is low and I am prowling for iodine. Must get that checked.

[flvegan]

35. Okay...I'm O+

Gonna come clean now.

Been vegan for several years. Thing is, my genetics are pretty good and I have a LOT of nutritional training.

My energy level kicks ass. I don't think I'm meat-dependent at all.

I think I thrive on a vegan diet. Never been better (knock wood).

Remember, it's all about nutrition.

As an O+ vegan, I look like this:

[ThomCat]

38. Yup. Scrawny, pale, and listless.

:P

[flvegan]

39. ThomCat, my friend

do you think those 20"s should be ignored?

[IzaSparrow]

40. you roll on twenny-twen twens?

yowza!!

[ThomCat]

41. I have no idea how anyone could ignore those.

:blush:

[appal_jack]

48. OK, 'nuff said

flvegan,

Before this thread sinks down to the obscurity that it probably deserves, I've got to say that your O+ blood type combined with those twenty-twen-twens (thanks Thomcat!) has got to be the final nail in the ER4YT theory coffin.

Also, thanks for the kind words about the value of learning about nutrition wherever it leads one... :toast:

-app

[Dastard Stepchild]

42. O- blood type here

Vegan since 1999 and vegetarian since 1989. I've never had any problems with my diet. Dairy does a number on my gut, so I am actually way better off without it.

[krispos42]

46. So that's why we have blood types?

Interesting idea. So then Asian Indians, with their high rate of vegetarianism, would tend to be AB, while Europeans and Americans would tend towards O?



I'm O+ and tend to eat meat, cheese, bread, and potatoes, washed down with Diet Pepsi. Not to many sweets, prefer chips and popcorn instead. Plenty of ketchup and tomato sauce in my diet, and I'll have lettuce on a chicken or fish sandwich. And I occasionally chug a low-sodium V-8.

<on edit>

My bp is normal and my cholesterol is 157, which made my very-healthy-eating boss choke on his sandwich one day. "They way YOU eat?!?!?" he cried in astonishment. "Yup!" I grinned, muching on another Dorito.

:-)

[RebelOne]

47. I'm a type O and have been a vegetarian for 10 years.

[pink-o]

49. Nobody els is a B+, then?

I first experimented with a veggie diet when I was 16, but since I hated almost every food on the planet, the meals consisted mostly of Trix cereal or Baked Beans and white bread toast. All washed down with a 7-up, I'm sure. Can't really remember, since that was 1971.


Anyway, by the time I was 22, I had it right: was a nutrition-conscious ova-lacto veggie. And it's been 31 years since I (deliberately) ate meat, poutry, pork or fish. Been healthy most of my life, so I figure in this case, if it ain't broke, I'm not gonna fix it.

But I don't know if blood-type has anything to do with it. I could just as easily say I'm a Sagittarius with a Virgo moon, so I was born to be a vegetarian. Bottom line is, FLVegan is correct: we need to educate ourselves about nutrition, since the system isn't gonna do it for us. It's economically more lucrative to keep Americans fat, sick, and ignorant, so it's up to us to take control. I don't believe being veggie is a human's natural diet--we never would have developed our big brains without a huge infusion of protein. But with the way the Factory Farms are, the hormones, antibiotics, unnatural breeding of animals and especially the needless cruelty humans purport on other species, (and the environmental toll on our planet, too) I am happy never to eat meat again.