Why are boys/men much more likely to form rock groups than girls/women? nt

[raccoon]

[Dora]

1. Because

When people see a rock band, they don't walk away saying, "Gee, they sound pretty good for a bunch of guys." Whereas, women in bands are still lumped in with all the other "girl bands" and by and large, are treated as a novelty act.

[Fire Walk With Me]

2. Rebellion, aggression, and ego.

As others have said, "peacocking".

[Dr. Strange]

3. Because women aren't as good at teamwork.

So sayeth the Reverend Mother Camille Paglia: http://www.salon.com/col/pagl/1999/01/nc_20pagl.html
(The top question.)

[LostinVA]

10. I hate Camille Paglia

[tigereye]

13. well said!

:thumbsup:


she's like a latter day Ayn Rand, masquerading as a progressive...

[Dr. Strange]

19. She needs a hug.

Or a kick in the butt. I can't quite figure out which.

[tigereye]

59. maybe both!

:hi:

she needs to have a realistic sense of her own importance!

[Dr. Strange]

75. That sounds like something a moderator would say.

You should lock a thread with that: OP needs to get a realistic sense of his/her own importance.

DUzy material, that would be. :patriot:

[lightningandsnow]

92. Me too!

[Iris]

47. why? Because no one wants to play with her?

What an idiot. In all cultures, women have created their own worlds to help them get by.

[tigereye]

61. women are great at teamwork - that's a load of crap

that's why she often seems well, misogynistic.... :shrug:

[nomorenomore08]

84. Yeah, even though I often enjoy Paglia's ramblings, she does seem rather uncomfortable

with her own femaleness.

[JVS]

72. I think Paglia might be the one bad at teamwork

[tigereye]

97. hmm, I'd be curious to see what you think about her "scholarship"

JVS.... have you read any of her writings?

that could be an interesting discussion...


when do you head off across the pond? Or have you already?

[JVS]

101. I leave in mid May. I might be back your way for a bit this summer. I'll let you know.

I haven't read much Paglia, but from what I've seen she's prety much about just crapping on everyone else to bolster her self-image. Kind of a Dr. Laura meets Ayn Rand vibe.

[tigereye]

102. yeah there is an Ayn Rand vibe, definitely

when you are back we could have a beer or something...


:hi:

[JVS]

103. sounds good

[guitar man]

4. one reason

when we're young, we're sure being in a rock band will get us laid :D

[stlsaxman]

6. BINGO!

That AND you get in a lot less fights if you got a big chunk of wood in your hands.... and i mean A GUITAR!

[guitar man]

21. lol

I remember having to use mine as a weapon one night when a stupid, drunk redneck charged the stage.:D

[pokerfan]

30. Check out the big brain on stlsaxman!

To quote from Sorkin's Sports Night.

"And in that moment, Dan was reminded once again why he wanted to write in the first place. It's for the same reason anyone does anything - to impress women."

[SOteric]

8. See, now, ~that's~ exactly what I was thinking.

And if you take a good look at the vast majority of rock stars, you'll notice that most of them aren't all that and probably wouldn't get so much attention from the chicas if they weren't rock stars. Mick Jagger? Picture him in a cheap suit trying to sell car insurance. Ringo Starr married Barbara Bach? How likely was that if he drove a bus for a living?

[guitar man]

15. lol, true

..very true. I know it was for me. I was a skinny, awkward kid from a common working family who didn't stand much of a chance with the girls (or so I thought). So, a few years before John Cougar's advice to "Forget all about that macho shit And learn how to play guitar" came along, I did exactly that.

Little did I know then that the reason I started learning to blast power chords through a Marshall would fade away and that I would develop a lifelong passion for making music. I've talked to some of the guys I gigged with back then and most of them put the instruments in the closet a long time ago and got on with something "stable". While I have worked a day gig much of my life, it's always been a means to an end. For me "life" starts when I clock out and head off to the gig :)

[nomorenomore08]

86. "Mick Jagger? Picture him in a cheap suit trying to sell car insurance."

That's a fucking hilarious image! Thank you! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Bake]

18. Of course, that's why I took up the BANJO!

Because banjo players get all the lovin'!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

And when that didn't work, I got a guitar!!

Bake

[guitar man]

24. lol

Q: what't the difference between an onion and a banjo?

A: Nobody cries when you chop up a banjo.

:rofl:

[Bake]

26. Excellent!! I love banjokes!

:rofl:

Bake

[guitar man]

28. hehe, ok then

Q: What's the difference between a dead squirrel in the middle of the road and a dead banjo player in the middle of the road?

A: The squirrel was actually on his way to a gig!

:rofl:

[Bake]

46. How can you tell if there's a banjo player at your door?

They can't find the key, the knocking speeds up, and they don't know when to come in.

-----

What's the difference between a banjo player and a savings bond? A savings bond eventually matures and earns money.

:rofl:

Bake

[guitar man]

49. how do you get a banjo player off your porch?

...pay for the pizza :D

[Bake]

45. What's the difference between a skunk run over on the road and a banjo player run over on the road?

You see skid marks in front of the skunk.

:rofl:

Bake

[Manifestor_of_Light]

108. What's the difference between a violin and a viola?

The viola burns longer.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :bounce: :bounce:

[Deep13]

23. That is also my guess. nt

[Twillig]

5. Boys/men form rock groups to get girls/women.

Boys/men are bigger showoffs. ("Hey watch this!")

It's a way to project strength.

[Bake]

20. As the bard, Mellencamp, said:

Forget about all that macho shit and learn how to PLAY GUITAR!!

Or as Buffett said, "There's something so feminine about a mandolin ..."

Bake

[pokerfan]

34. In A Pirate Looks At Fifty

Buffett talks about learning guitar. Before he dropped out of college. He was shy and awkward around girls. He went to a frat party and wasn't having any fun. He saw this guy in a corner playing guitar and he had half the women in the room gathered round him. Jimmy hit him up for music lessons shortly thereafter.

[DarkTirade]

78. The mandolin? Hell, look at the guitar.

Slender neck, hourglass curved body...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

7. in many ways women are encouraged not to break the norm

little girls are also encourage NOT to embarrass themselves.

there is a lot of sexism in music. lisa could weigh in on this, but unfortunately after being compared to as a wanna be ANi di franco on this forum, she thinks of most du'ers as un-progressive

[RadiationTherapy]

31. The "wanna be Ani" thing has happened to my wife in the past as well.

I think it is because there are SO FEW women rockers, that many can only compare to Ani, Patty and Joan. Bastids.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

35. exactly, she doesnt sound or look like ani at all. ofcourse if you think all women sound

the same, you compare her to ani. therefore vastly limiting her scope.

[RadiationTherapy]

44. I have to be honest...

When I hear most slam poetry these days I think, "all the guys sound like Jim Morrison and all the girls sound like Ani DiFranco". It's bullshit, of course, but I have to get attention some way.

I HAVE TO.

[harmonicon]

58. I think that's a large part of it

My girlfriend is a classical musician but really likes rock music and sometimes says she wishes she'd played it. I think she's just too shy. I tell her she should, but if she doesn't like the pressure of a conservatory, I don't know if she could take being heckled and told she sucks. I've been in rock bands and that's something you have to deal with. Somehow, though I don't like public speaking, I can put on ridiculous clothes and make up and get on a stage and sing songs that I wrote to hundreds of people.... I don't know what the difference is - I think it's because I'm a ham.

[tigereye]

63. one of my favorite indie women musicians here was a classically trained

cellist, who played bass in quite a few bands.


I was shy, but I had no trouble being behind the drumset and sometimes up front playing the bass in my all female and half and half bands. (guys and females)

[harmonicon]

69. maybe you just need to have a certain personality for it

I'm also shy as a person, but not on stage. Classical music is almost all that I do now, and I think my rock/pop music experience has helped me a lot in it, confidence-wise.

[tigereye]

71. I was really shy when I was younger

but I grew out of it. :rofl:



I would think that anyone with classical chops would do well in the rock setting, well, if they could get past the noise factor and "out of tune-ness" which used to drive some of my friends crazy.

[tigereye]

62. there are worse things to be than like Ani DiFranco

her music (your partner's) seemed pretty cool when I listened backwhen


:hi:

[DarkTirade]

87. Who the hell made that comparison?

Do I need to get Skittles to kick someone's ass?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

109. Sexism.

I'm trained in classical music, over ten years of lessons on each of two instruments, and knew some guys in a college rock band and wanted to jam with them. So we went to a practice room and I jammed with them on the piano. They said "Oh we think you are great, but we can't offend the (male) piano player's ego". This was in the early 80s when they were playing Echo Beach by Martha and The Muffins. I was pissed.

The first time I saw a woman playing an instrument in a rock band on TV was when I saw Tina Weymouth of Talking Heads playing bass, probably on SNL. I was amazed.
That was in the mid 70s when I was in college.

Women are supposed to look good and sing. If they play instruments, at least when I was looking for a rock band, the guys don't want them.

:banghead:

[vi5]

9. Lots of reasons...

Someone on here mentioned the idea of being in a band getting you laid. Guys pick up on that very early so it starts the wheels turning sooner.

Also I just think that certain aspects of being in a rock band have more of a masculine feel about them so when boys are younger than can pick up on and be attracted to that, whereas girls may not feel comfortable overcoming those boundaries until later.

I have a 6 year old daughter and am a musician with guitars, drums, keyboard, recording equipment, mics, etc. all in a basement studio and around the house. And I try and always be playing women rock bands for her and showing her videos of women rock bands. And she has no interest. She just wants princesses and Barbies. It's not to say when she's older it won't have some kind of appeal to her but right now it's just the gender roles of the age I think.

[LeftyMom]

11. Try finding an affordable starter instrument appropriately sized for a woman.

Even if women do start playing, they're at a disadvantage because instruments built for their proportions are damn near impossible to find, so it's like learning to drive in a car where your feet barely reach the pedals.

[Cabcere]

14. Amen to that.

I bought a bass guitar a few summers ago and have a hell of a time playing it, because my fingers just can't stretch that far. x( Good times.

[DarkTirade]

53. One of my exes started learning bass

and she just said screw it, and got a 3/4 sized bass because she couldn't handle the full size.

[tigereye]

16. never stopped me

I had a reasonably sized drum set, and the basses and guitars were fine - I'm about average sized.



Of course I didn't start playing in a band until I was in college, when I was in high school it was always guys-only bands.


That's why punk was/is so great, it got women out of the seats, and onto the stages!

[RadiationTherapy]

33. I have to disagree.

My wife is amazing at guitar and I think she has taken advantage of her small and very specific fingers. It lends accuracy and precision, even if her "stretch" is limited.

God, this thread make me want to record my wife's songs; she tells me that "time of her life is over". Meanwhile, my brother and I have hacked together 3 CDs in 5 years from sheer force of will and a complete lack of talent.

[DarkTirade]

60. Even if you don't do anything with it, recording can be good.

It's nice to be able to hear yourself from an outside perspective, instead of just hearing yourself form inside your own head.

[RadiationTherapy]

74. ACTUALLY *since you aaaaaaasked*

i have one "CD" amazon and rhapsody and itunes n shit and another ready to go live. I have a website. I have merchandise.


Got everything but a gig and a fan base!

[DarkTirade]

79. Details, details.

I've finally started recording my own stuff and putting things together. Nothing of CD quality yet, although I may try to dabble in combining my various styles into something new and interesting. Could do interesting things if I combined my classical training with my rock guitar. :) So far I've kept them fairly seperate, but I'm thinking it might be time for a change.

[RadiationTherapy]

80. I have done some very cool stuff in post-pro as well

the ability to add effects and edit so easily makes the creative process spill WAY out of the studio (my brother's bachelor pad) and into the post production. It is amazing.

[DarkTirade]

82. I'm not even so much talking about post-pro stuff

although I have toyed with it a bit in things like this

http://www.stickmanltd.com/practicesessions/room-plain-strongvocals.mp3

vs. the 'trippy' version

http://www.stickmanltd.com/practicesessions/room-strongvocals.mp3


I'm talking about combining styles. Doing weird things, like baroque rock. :P Something I've actually dabbled in... I wrote a waltz for guitars and bass a while back. Turned out pretty nifty.

[RadiationTherapy]

85. Tenacious D - Classico.

Brilliant.

Also check out 'Classical Sauce' by same.

[DarkTirade]

89. Exactly.

Combining old with new to make something even newer. :P

[tigereye]

64. I had to stop for a while after my son was born

but I have been taking drum lessons - I keep thinking there's no reason not to start an "old crones' band or something and get my feet wet again...

good luck to her, you should have her record, it reminds one that there is no limit on enjoying playing music!

[RadiationTherapy]

76. Well, I think she is not being creative enough in how to approach music making.

My brother and I get together ONCE A WEEK; not to rehearse, but to record. It took us 5 years to make 3 CDs without any disruption to our home life.

My wife thinks that to play music you have to be in a band, rehearse a few nights a week, book gigs, etc. It would be majorly disruptive to our 2 income, less than $50k/year with a 6 year old lifestyle.

I want to record her as a legacy for our daughter and future generations.

[tigereye]

95. sure, play at home and record and put it out there

it's just a different approach - I mostly play gun for hire when friends need someone to play the stray instrument when they are recording...


:hi:

[tigereye]

66. yeah, I never had any problem with any instruments

but then I was playing piano at age 8, organ, what have you.


It was the calluses that took a while to build...

[lukasahero]

57. I respectfully disagree

I started on the piano when I was 5 - can't get much smaller than I was then. Never played with "toy" instruments anyway.

I used to play "rock band" when I was little (my warped version of "playing house" I guess). All I wanted when I was a kid was to play guitar. Started playing for real at 14 with one of the biggest folk guitars on the market. No one was going to stop me. And there's no reason in the world an electric guitar needs to be "re-sized" for a woman.

[lightningandsnow]

93. I've never had that problem

I play piano, guitar, and bass, and I've occasionally dabbled in percussion. I also used to play violin. And I never had that problem - but I've been told my hands are kind of large.

There are these things called "Daisy Rock Guitars", which are specifically sized to suit women and girls - but they are complete and utter pieces of crap and they don't stay in tune. They do look cute, though.

[DS1]

12. because the bumper sticker says to "Rock out with your cock out"

ergo, female band members are illiterate




:hide:

[LostinVA]

17. I have several...

nevermind.

[ornotna]

117. Bumper stickers?

:P

[RadiationTherapy]

36. "Rock out with your knocks out"

rock out with your glock out

rock out with your socks out

rock out with your dock out

rock out with your schlock out

rock out with your vulva out

[DarkTirade]

54. Jam out with your clam out.

[RadiationTherapy]

77. Rave out with your labes out?

[RadiationTherapy]

88. Freak out with your cheeks out

[RadiationTherapy]

90. Pit out with your slit out.

This has to stop, really.

[RadiationTherapy]

91. Flip out with your nips out.

NO ONE else thinks about this stuff?

[DarkTirade]

94. Binge out with your minge out?

:shrug:

[RadiationTherapy]

104. Flit out with your clit out?

must...keep...trying!

[Iris]

48. ha! ha!

I'm so sheltered, I thought my husband made that up!

[Bake]

22. Because girls can get laid without playing guitar?

Just a thought ...

Bake

[Pierre.Suave]

25. haha

awesome answer.

[KG]

27. heh. i was going to say 'coz women have breasts'.

kinda the same reason.

[DarkTirade]

55. Hey, I could have gotten laid if I didn't play guitar...

I just wasn't willing to wait until I was 30.

[mitchum]

29. Because it takes superior upper body strength to hold a guitar or drumsticks, of course

I honestly don't know
It's weird; I have played with far more female musicians (guitarplayers, bassists, and drummers) than any other male musician that I know. I judge a player by their chops, not their gender.

[tigereye]

67. I have always known lots of women rockers/punks/ indie musicians

drums are easy, they are more about math and coordination than strength



good for you!

[DarkTirade]

105. It matters more how fast you're moving when you strike than how much muscle is behind it.

Transfer of momentum when you hit, not how strong you are for the follow-through.

[tigereye]

106. my drum teacher says it's about how relaxed your hands are, actually

[DarkTirade]

107. Exactly.

You get higher speed with a whipping type motion than by holding them tight and flailing your arms. Your arms may have a lot more strength behind them, but that's not what you need.

There were a few moves I did in karate like that, where you'd use a loose wrist and strike with a little whip of the wrist at the end. Doesn't have the sheer strength of a regular punch, but it does more focused, often deeper damage.

[tigereye]

114. I do tai chi, so we take a somewhat different approach

what I've found is that tai chi and the lack of hard force it posits, really helps me relax when playing the drums!

:)

[DarkTirade]

118. Yep. It's the relaxed motions that strike with the right momentum. :)

I'd love to try tai chi. :)

[Bake]

32. Because electric guitar is such a manly instrument?

Hell, a Les Paul weight, what, 15 pounds or so?

JUST KIDDING!!!!!!

Bake

[Silver Swan]

37. IMO, there are more boy bands than girl bands

Because an ugly guy can play an instrument in a rock band and be considered a musician.

When an ugly girl plays an instrument in a rock band, she is considered an ugly girl.

[lukasahero]

51. Ding ding ding

Very astute.

Heck, a cute guy can play an instrument in a band and be considered a musician.

When a pretty girl plays an instrument in a rock band, she is considered a pretty girl.

[RadiationTherapy]

38. I will someday design an instrument that you have to insert your fingers (carefully) into

and slowly work up to a raging crescendo.

And if you play it too fast, too soon it goes out of tune immediately.

[DS1]

39. It's called a vagina

and not limited to fingers

[RadiationTherapy]

40. Shit! You already made one?

[DS1]

42. Nah, I'm with the band

[RadiationTherapy]

43. Well, you can't do that on stage anymore.

[Oeditpus Rex]

41. Because the guitar is an extension of the penis

Duh. :D



But, hey — there're plenty of women who can just freakin' shred. Check out Lori Linstruth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMejjSWStaw

[pitohui]

50. because girls get tired of playing games they can't win

i think margaret atwood said that, we all know damn good and well that the cards are stacked against a serious rock group if it's female

not so much has changed as we like to pretend has changed, prejudice is still there and you can't force people to buy what they don't want to buy

[Forkboy]

52. It's not called "cock rock" for nothing.

Add the extra testosterone and viola!

[DarkTirade]

56. I would love to find a girl who'd want to start/join a band with me.

We need more women in rock.

[tigereye]

68. I think there are many more out there than when I started back in the late

70s.

[harmonicon]

65. for the same reasons that it's harder for women to succeed in most fields

I think it's a dream that isn't discouraged in young boys, but probably would be in young girls. It starts early. When kids are first starting bands their hormones are going crazy, and since there will already be fewer girl musicians (because they haven't been encouraged to play guitar/drums/etc. - sure, there are loads of teenage girl violinists) it will be harder for them to make all-girl groups. If you put 3 teenage boys and one teenage girl in a room together, do you think a lot of music making will happen? That being said, I just remembered that there was a girl in one of the bands I was in in high school - she smelled nice.

I have been in "pro" bands with girls and can think of loads of great bands with women in them, but sexism is as rampant in the music industry just like it is in other industries. It just becomes a vicious circle: fewer women rock acts = fewer women rock role-models for for youngsters.

I wish that there were more, because I think it would do wonders to defeat sexism. I know that music has done so much to break down walls of racism. No way could I, as a middle class suburban white kid, have ended up as a racist, since I played music and so many of my role models were black musicians.

[tigereye]

70. I suspect you could go online right now and find hundreds, if not more

of bands with teen females in them. At least I hope that is the case.

[harmonicon]

111. I think you're right

but I think you'd fine more all-male groups. I've been in both as a teenager and an adult.

[Karenina]

116. Emily Remler

[unpossibles]

73. my guess: males are far more likely to be ok with looking like idiots until they get better

my wife is technically a better musician than I am, but gets stage fright really badly. I on the other hand, am quite comfortable with making an ass out of myself, so being on stage is no big deal.

ok, that was not a serious answer really. I think the larger reason is because my female musician friends get far less respect or encouragement regardless of talent, although they do get "encouragement" of sorts if they are hot. Either way, it sucks.

[semillama]

81. my last band:

didn't have a problem putting together a mixed gender band at all. Course, that's a college band for you.

[tigereye]

98. many college bands are mixed - I was in several of em in college and after

hmm, was your band named after some unusual bird? ;)


:hi:

[semillama]

113. no, this was before my birding reawakening.

We were called Subshine, after struggling to come up with a name that wasn't completely stupid. That's the hardest part of forming a band. Fun while it lasted, and afterwards it was hard to just pick up a guitar without having other folks to play with it.

[JVS]

83. Girls are not discouraged from singing and dancing. If a straight boy want's to express himself...

musically, it had better be behind a bass, guitar, or drum set.

[bamacrat]

96. Because female rock bands rarely make it.

A woman's voice isn't rockish. in the 50s, 60s and some in the 70s there were more women, but the guys sounded soft and melodious too. Plus a guy will hardly ever idolize a girl.

[tigereye]

100. Michael Stipe idolized Patti Smith

a lot of guys were gaga for Bjork, and for various women in all female bands... including the Runaways, The Go-Gos, Joan Jett in various bands, Luscious Jackson, Scrawl, L-7. the Donnas and Kitty.... even Heart and The Bangles...


of course, many of those bands were not what you would call mainstream.

[mitchum]

110. And when I was a bassist I stole LOTS of licks from Kathy Valentine...

and any male rocker with half a brain should be influenced by Patti Smith. She is the real deal.

[Tabasco_Dave]

112. i idolize this girl.

http://sp1.yt-thm-a03.yimg.com/image/25/m3/2625622397

[Bennyboy]

99. Marijuana......

Boys are way more likely to sit around and smoke pot all day. And everyone knows that pot leads to loud music. So there you go.

[rocktivity]

115. I think it's because girls know they're less likely to succeed no matter how good they are.

Not only do they have to battle sexism within the music business (not to mention the maternity leave thing), their work isn't percieved as being the equal of men because they themselves are the equal of men.

:headbang:
rocknation