Genital Herpes. Would you keep that a secret from someone you are dating or living with?

[Lil Missy]

I am just absolutely spent tonight. And very torn.

This friend, I'll call M, is famous for hitting up on every woman in sight, and desperate to find a "partner". Well, she's in her late 50's, very egotistical and arrogant, and not so attractive. But she pursues and chases relentlessly, at the bar and over the Internet. She's only interested in women 20 or 30 years younger.

She meets these women on porn sites, and then moves them cross country to come live with her, without ever meeting them first.
It turns to shit every time, and ends up dragging everyone else into her drama when she tries to unload the woman onto living with someone else. Not to mention the times these women found out that M had shared all the porn pics with the entire world before they were ever introduced to the rest of us.

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

Suffice it to say, M is a pig. And as much as I hate confrontation and fighting, I have many scars from butting heads with her. I can be god damned stubborn too if I am pushed to my limit.

So, M and I get along a lot better now, for several months actually. Recently she met a gal that was actually interested in her, which is pretty unusual. Of course M moved her in right away, and introduced her to everyone as her new girlfriend.

That didn't last but a day, because they slept together the first night, but didn't have sex. This other gal, who I will call T, is a "nice girl", and the whole hookup was rather confusing to most of us anyway. Nevertheless, M moved T into the guest room after that, and has been trying to unload her on to someone else since then.

Well, M introduced her to me a couple weeks ago, and while I am not interested in a relationship, she is a very nice and delightful gal, and very intelligent. A rare find these days. So we communicated by email. Mind you, there was no "spark" between us and no interest with dating, just a friendship both ways.

Then she decided to trust me with some very personal information, out of the blue. She told me she has genital herpes, and is very attracted to M, but she is too afraid to tell her about it because she at least wants to preserve the friendship. Well, no WONDER she didn't want to have sex with M when she moved in!

She swears to me she would never pass it on, but admits she has "urges" and is very attracted to M. I can understand her wishing to keep the friendship connection they still have, and being worried that such information might change that. But they are living together, and I think M could be trusted with that info and would not abandon her.

And truly, I think it would be a major weight off her mind and shoulders to just be honest with M. I think it is eating T alive right now. But I am not in her shoes and it is not for me to decide or judge.

And her secret is safe with me, as long as I have her assurance that she won't put M in any risk. That's the real thing that bothers me. If T tells me anything that makes me worry that M would be at risk, I would have to violate the confidence. And that is not a scenario that I'd care to be involved in.

Despite the differences and conflicts in the past with M, I still have a conscience, and could not allow that to happen.

Whew! Thanks for letting me get that off my chest!

[mike_c]

1. 'scuse me while I settle in and get comfortable....

I don't have any advice, but I brought :popcorn:

Thankfully, my relationship dramas don't involve disease transmission (unless someone isn't telling me-- hmmmm...).

[Lil Missy]

2. Popcorn? I really hope this doesn't turn into that kind of thread.

It was a serious post, and looking for serious responses.

[mike_c]

3. and I hope you get them...

Sorry, its the tail end of a long insomniac night here and I'm a bit punchy. I could find humor in a firing squad, I think.

[boilerbabe]

26. Hear ya there, coming off a round of night shifts, myself..n/t

[JVS]

8. pass the corn

:popcorn:

[boilerbabe]

25. You never can really know!! n/t

[mainegreen]

4. Ung. Stuff like that is why I have a blanket 'I dont want to know' policy.

Sounds dreadful.
You sound like a good friend though.

[Lil Missy]

6. I have a "don't want or need to know" policy too. But T bombed me with this out of the blue.

And really, it terribly irritates me that every time M gets into a pickle with women she barely knows, and is quick to move them in with her, the drama always falls to everyone around her. Every single fucking time.

But this is a little different, and there is a "nice girl" involved. Albeit with a "condition".

Well, shit.

[boilerbabe]

28. It 's a conundrum for sure.

It would be nice to get T and M together so you don't have to deal with the drama, though!

Good luck! You are a very good friend to have, I would say!

[Lil Missy]

56. Well, thank you for the kind comment that I might be a good friend to have.

I appreciate all your comments in this thread, and felt this one most appropriate to respond.

As I reflect upon this thread, I am not so sure I am "a very good friend to have", or just a sucker that allowed myself to get pulled into this shit.

I think I have gathered and realized through this thread that I barely know T myself, and that I was perhaps too giving and taken in by her personal plight.

She dumped that on me suddenly, and out of the blue.

But I think you are right, and she should be taking this up with M instead of me. I know she is scared, but I am a relative stranger.

And it does not escape my mind that once again, as usual, M got herself in another situation that results in drama for those around her.

They just don't seem to see the connection with her constant presence and drama she keeps fired up constantly and the continuous slack and loss of business because of her.

I'm not going to eat this shit anymore.

:hi:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

5. So M and T didnt have sex? or did they?

i just wonder why you are friends with M. she sounds a bit disturbed.

its not her sluttiness, if i were single and felt like it, and often when i was single, i did feel like it.

its just the rest sounds crazy..

If t has slept with m, she should tell her

[Lil Missy]

9. Finally a response addressing the issue!

No, M and T have not had sex. M was expecting that the first night when they slept together, but T did not respond. Now we know the reason why, but M doesn't. And moved her to the guest room the next day because of it.

Good question about why I am friends with M. I really have no choice but to get along with her. The owner of the bar is and allows M work there for free. Of course the owner never pays her and takes all the tips she earns as well. M is satisfied with that because she gets an ego trip out of acting like she owns the place and has free reign to flirt.

M is retired and is there every single fucking night. She not only pisses off and chases customers away, but also pisses off and bullies her way behind the bar with the scheduled bartenders that don't need her help. The owner, K, lets her get away with that because M would work for free and hand over all the tips to K, just for the chance to have the appearance of power and position.

I used to go there 2 or 3 times a week, but for the last year only once a week. M was being the eyes and ears for the owner, K, and hawked every conversation to the point it was impossible to have a private conversations with anyone. That turned a lot of customers away, including me.

I agree with you, the rest of it between T and M does sound crazy. Because it is. To be honest, I am rather baffled at a "nice girl" like T picking up and moving in with M in the first place. What the hell?

T is in the guest room and not sleeping with M. In fact, M thinks T is to "nice" and wants to get rid of her. But still, if I thought there was any chance of cross pollination with them, I would feel compelled to warn M. I just could not in good conscience allow that to happen to anyone.

Now, are you sorry you asked? LOL!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. i dont know why someone would ask someone else to move in

without having sex first

odd progression

she needs to tell M especially since its so much harder to transmit STD's within 2 females. chances are if they are a bit careful, m wouldnt get herpes

[Lil Missy]

16. I wouldn't move someone in with me like that either!

It IS an odd progression! What the HELL??

What ever happened to dating and getting to know each other first. Or, god forbid, falling in love??

But M has done this several times. I won't pretend or begin to explain, understand, or defend what M does or how she approaches her love life. She's not even concerned about whether they are already in a relationship. She knows no boundaries, and won't take no for an answer, no matter what. And that is what chases so much business away too.

I think she sees women as chattel and property. And so, if she takes an interest in someone, even if they turn her down a hundred times, she makes it an unspoken warning that she will approach and hawk any conversation they try to have without her.

Thus, why we have locked horns so many times. We just don't seem to have the same values for some reason. :eyes:

It takes a lot to get me fired up, but I can get testy and stubborn when someone treats me or others like shit

[boilerbabe]

38. drop her ASAP hunny!

Unless she has some authority over you, then get out from under her evil influence for your own sake!

Demons Out! She's poison! You seem like a very nice person--get out now.

[boilerbabe]

That's what I was thinking

Though I am no authority on that one.

As this thread progresses, it is sounding like M is so fucked up, that I would not recommend anyone even speaking to her. So poor T should probably get her ass back to where she came from and just call it a day.

Why anyone would be attracted to a bullying piece of shit like that is just beyond me. Guess I am probably too independant. That's the way I will stay. Never married, probably never will. I will not change for anyone, and that's it. I recommend having a house full of cats!

It appears that the poor girl is desparate. Or, she has some romantic ideals that are just not going to fly. It sucks to have that bubble burst, but how long would that relationship last anyways, if you consider how M acts?

[msanthrope]

11. My advice? Find a new pub. Remove yourself from M's toxic

web, stay away from her, and stop thinking about her life, her problems, and her relationship with T.

[boilerbabe]

37. Toxic is a very good word! n/t agree...

[boilerbabe]

34. M sounds poisonous and you should sever all relations with her!! n/t

[boilerbabe]

30. In that case, it would probably be too late!

I was wondering the same. I would think that they had slept together, and why is T all of a sudden put in the rejects file? I am not real clear on how this shit is supposed to work out. Now that I think of it, it's sounding like a total mess.

I am not an authority, but it does seem to me that for women to have protected sex it would involve a lot more complicated ritual.

Crap.

[Chan790]

7. Ugh. I hate situations like this.

T needs to be honest, but she needed to be honest weeks ago...and M kind of exacerbated this situation by moving T into her house at a breakneck pace, skipping over the normal "feeling-out" period where one would bring this up, meaning one might have argument that the possibly the first (and definitely the last) appropriate moment to say "Hey, I need you to know that I have genital herpes." and to have an honest discussion about that would have been right at the initiation of the hookup...even if it would have ruined the moment and flirtation; killed the hook-up right there.

T needs to tell M. I'd say "right now"...but she needs to have all the facts and information about her condition, information pamphlets and be ready to answer questions. She needs to be prepared. She needs to be open to and expecting any sort of response. If that's not where she's at, she needs to get to work on that...then she needs to have that conversation and not procrastinate further.

I know that the suggestion is going to sound like something you don't want to do...but you'd be a true friend to both of them if you were to offer to be the person that T could practice this conversation with. Sounding-board, devil's advocate, conversation-practice partner. (And don't hold back...most people in M's position don't respond well.) It's the sort of thing that one should practice and by doing it with you, that's one less person that knows (and doesn't need to). It's also a lot less likely that someone other than T will tell M. If M finds out from someone other than T and then finds out that you knew and didn't tell her...this situation might get ugly.

Edit: The above applies to someone dating or sleeping together...one's roommate doesn't need to know one has herpes unless they're in the habit of stealing then wearing one's dirty underwear. I'd say if that's occurring, herpes is the least of your problems.

[Lil Missy]

12. I agree with you on several points.

First of all, M has "fallen in love" with so many women, and immediately moves them in with her at breakneck speed, and it always turns to shit. The worst ones were the porno chicks she moved in from out of town before she ever met them in person. They have turned into major shit and drama for everyone around her every single time.

This gal, T, was someone she had actually met at the bar first. And T is actually attracted to M, which is a first. They met and talked, and somehow T agreed to move in with M. After M decided she wanted to unload her for not having sex, M introduced us and we had a very nice chat. She is a "nice girl", and very intelligent, which is more my type. I had no idea I was being set up.

There is no "spark" or attraction between us. But there is enough trust and friendship there that I can agree with your suggestion to "role-play", and/or practice a conversation or scenario, playing devils advocate or just support, to enable her to tell M about this.

And frankly, I think it is more important for T to get it off her chest, than it is for M to know. I think it's eating T alive right now.

[boilerbabe]

32. Used to work in a wholistic store..

She might want to try BHT, which is a preservative, but has been proven to be effective in fighting off herpes. It's been many years since I worked there,but the vitamin gals all recommended it. I don't even know if you can still get it as a supplement, but if you can, get it and take like overdose amounts for about 2 weeks, and the outbreaks will be gone.

[Lil Missy]

53. She has Valtrex to handle the outbreaks.

Which, according to her, can be very painful. But being free of an outbreak does not mean you can't still be contagious and pass it on.

I had to Google to learn more about it and how it can be transmitted. Suffice it to say it's a rather hopeless situation, even between women.

[RadiationTherapy]

13. I wouldn't say anything to anyone.

I imagine if the person was willing to share with you so readily, they probably have no problem sharing the info with someone they care for.

Let it play out. There is a big likelihood that you could tell M and that conversation could blow up on you in a "She already told me, WTF business is it of yours?" way

[Lil Missy]

18. Oh, I think it will be the other way around.

I am not going to violate the confidence.

And I truly think it was easier for T to tell me, and is scared half to death to reveal that to M.

And it sure could blow up in my face, dammit. But most likely because if and when M finds out, M will will blame it all on me for not telling her. Even though she has no sexual interest, and there is no chance of her contracting the condition.

[RadiationTherapy]

22. Wow. This all sounds weird to me. Good luck! nt

[boilerbabe]

33. If M has no sexual interest in T, then there is no point in revealing n/t

[Chovexani]

14. I'm going to be a cold ass bitch.

Largely because I have zero patience for this kind of drama. M sounds like my ex in thirty years (except she gets away with her shitty behavior now because she's hot and masks her behavior with a gentlemanly butch facade).

T needs to grow a spine, suck it up and tell M herself if she does in fact want to pursue something with her (I have no idea why anyone would, based on your post, but there's no accounting for taste or self-esteem). There is NO shame in having an STI, hell most people have them these days, especially the herp. This is not 1950 and anyone who's still clutching pearls over it needs to get the fuck over themselves. But when you have an STI it is your responsibility to disclose that to a potential partner so they can make an informed decision about whether or not they want to get involved with you. STIs are not something you fuck around with (forgive the pun). People have a right to make a decision about whether or not they want to take the risk. Yes, it sucks because people are shitty, but you know what? T should have thought of that before she made the decision to have risky sex. Assuming, of course, that she did so and wasn't lied to by whomever infected her--and if that's the case then she has even less of a leg to stand on. Bullshit like this situation is why so many people HAVE STIs in the first place. People need to be adults, own their shit, and communicate.

Honestly, from the outside it sounds like these two deserve each other and you'd do best to stay far, far away from both of them. They both sound like they need to grow the fuck up. This shit is bananas. B-A-N-A-N-A-S. You're a sweet person but honey it is not your responsibility to keep M from the inevitable crotch rot she was going to get with her risky behavior. It's a wonder she hasn't ended up Ripped from the Headlines or on a Dateline episode by now anyway.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

19. best response.

[Chan790]

23. I agree...

I think Chovexani said what I was too polite to say.

[petronius]

20. "Clutching pearls" - LOL! (you may consider that phrase pilfered...)

Excellent response - and not cold at all. T really hs two options, tell M or move on. From the rest of it, I say "move on" has a 99.99% chance of being the best choice, but that's up to her...

[Lil Missy]

31. If I didn't make it clear before,

T is a "nice girl", and to begin with is not the usual type for M. She was invited to M's bed the first night, and refused sex. So was moved to the guest room the next day, much to her relief. Why she ever agreed to agree to move in with her in the first place is still a mystery to me.

No one is attracted to M; her aggression and persistence with younger women is a major source of contention, complaining, and jokes behind her back. She's just too fucking arrogant and egotistical to see it.

M is a pig, constantly on the prowl. This just happened to be one time that someone was interested in her. It totally puzzled all of us, since that never happens. Especially a "nice girl", with education and intelligence. M only goes for tramps and drama queens, especially it they give her naked and twat pics for her amusement.

You did bring up an important point about how T got the herpes. She was in a long term relationship with another woman, who was not so honest when she cheated and contracted the condition, and gave it to T. So it's not like T thought she was having risky sex at the time. She was betrayed. And this ex has gone on to another lover now, and didn't tell her, so that one is too late now. I think that is downright criminal, and should be a reason for prosecution.

You're right, I need to pull out of this. M needs to sink and reap her own crap. And BTW, speaking of getting ripped in the headlines, one of her Internet lover escapades to result in court action, and she was invited to the Judge Judy show! LOL!

[Kali]

49. yep

:thumbsup:

[zingaro]

15. Man.

She doesn't even wait until the standard third date to get the U-Haul? :rofl: Seriously, M sounds like a very sad and empty person to need to behave in such a way. And while I see the sordid ugliness in the whole thing, it makes me hurt for her as opposed to feeling contempt. I guess that's a roundabout way of saying I understand why you don't leave the bar or disassociate from a person like M. Neediness inspires some sort of protective response in me that I haven't been able to shut off yet so this sort of thing would be right up my alley, irl.

I think your only option is to do exactly what you're doing, which is urging T to be honest. If she can't, or won't, then there's nothing you can do except remind her that if she does sleep with M, your agreement about confidence is over. It sounds like you know all of that, though so there's nothing left to do but say good luck. Sounds volatile and drama filled.

[Lil Missy]

35. I have no feeling of "neediness" for M. I just can't get rid of her.

Drama, drama, drama, is right! And most of it always revolves around M in some way.

That's why a rarely go there anymore, cause I'm sick to shit of it already.

[boilerbabe]

39. The possibility of getting in the middle

which your post reminded me of.. have you ever tried to mediate between a couple and gotten shot down because of it later? Just a thought. Sometimes our best efforts are not appreciated!

[petronius]

17. I would not keep that a secret, and I would not have sex with someone without telling them

Also, such a thing would not be a relationship dealbreaker, so long as precautions were possible. I think the position you've taken is the right one.

The only conundrum I see here is why are you friends with M, and why is T attracted to her... :shrug:

[Lil Missy]

36. I am NOT a true friend of M. I just have to put up with her.

Why T is attracted to M has been quite a puzzle to many of us.

I think there is more to this than is yet to be known. I hope it's not because T feels that since she has herpes, she is destined to settle for a boorish pig.

[petronius]

43. Your thought about T thinking she has to 'settle' sounds reasonable

Did you reassure her about that, or did it even come up? Like someone upthread said, STDs really aren't a stigma, and shouldn't be a dealbreaker - it would be sad if T felt ashamed and doomed over a condition that is manageable.

Sort of off topic, it would be nice if some of those Valtrex (?) and other herpes-medicine commercials showed happy couples other than straight white pairings...

[boilerbabe]

40. Not all sex is premeditated, though!! OOPS! n/t

[colinmom71]

21. Honestly? You need to go with your conscience....

While statistically it is more difficult for lesbians to transmit STD's to one another, herpes simplex 2 (genital herpes) is very easily communicable. All it takes is a hand touching one set of genitals then touching another set of genitals to transmit the virus, especially considering that bodily fluids are often, umm, carried on those hands with digital manipulation of female genitals.

If I were placed in your position.... And I get that you've been unwillingly thrust in the middle of this drama (BTDT, sorta)... I would tell T that she has one day to tell M about her medical condition and that if she doesn't, you will. T has already told you that she "has urges", which is pretty much code for "if I have a 'weak' moment, I'll give in and have sex with M". Her potentially destructive secrets do not deserve to be protected under the guise of "not my business" or "it's not nice to tell secrets". T is the one who is putting you on the line by telling you to keep her secret for her, and M may have her personal issues but no one deserves to be unwittingly exposed to a painful and permanent STD.

The other problem at play is that T obviously has problems with being open and intimate with those she desires to have a romantic relationship. This is a big red flag for showing that she's likely not emotionally mature enough to maintain an open, honest adult relationship with M anyway. T is already willing to lie at the very beginning of a clearly unbalanced relationship. It's going to end badly no matter what you may contribute to the honesty level towards M...

Please remember, there's a difference between privacy and secrets. Secrets are usually destructive and harmful... Privacy is like when one closes the door while one uses the toilet. But secrets are usually accompanied by lies, manipulation, and hurt, like "I'm screwing my husband's best friend who's HIV positive, but don't tell on me! You're supposed to be my friend!"

You can either be M's friend by being honest and truthful (though yes, she may feel hurt initially), or you can be T's "friend" by being dishonest, deceitful, and a partner to potential physical harm... The choice is yours, to decide who you want to be.

[boilerbabe]

41. Well said! n/t

[Lil Missy]

42. I am anxiously awaiting a response from T, and to judge my reaction from there.

She assures me she would never, ever pass it along to anyone. And frankly, M is not interested in her that way, put her in the guest room the next night after no sex, and is now trying to fix her up with someone else.

But, according to M on my last Sunday outing, she did say that it would nice to keep T around for a while to sit the house and her dogs while she takes a 3 or 4 days a week to stay with her sister who is dying of cancer now.

Don't worry, if I get so much as an inkling from T that she might act upon that "urge", I will spill my guts to M in a heartbeat. And, of course, I'd be unmercifully crucified by both of them, and especially by M.

I really don't think that will happen. First of all, I don't think T would do that. Her main concern is just being able to preserve a friendship. And secondly, M is not interested in her in that way.

[boilerbabe]

24. that's a tough one

Either for gay or straight. I would advise if T wants to be with M, that she admits having herpes. They would just have to work around the outbreaks? I have been seeing ads about some new drug that is supposed to help with that. Can't remember the name.

It sounds like your friend, M is not so much of a pig, but just wants to find the right person? If she were a guy, she would probably be called a stud. Who knows. It's not good that she continually gets people off the internet and then tries to unload them later. That's not good at all. She needs to grow up and concentrate on being independant, I think.

It is nice that you are still a good friend to someone that is apparently going off the rails!

Good luck to you. I am not sure if one can change their friends, people seem to have patterns that they will always follow.

XXXOOO

[Rabrrrrrr]

27. Perhaps M's toxicity makes her immune to herpes.

But either way, I think the very toxic M should be quickly though gently shuttled out of your life. I think you will be much more relaxed and able to deal with life.

She seems to have a lot of power over her "friends".

[Lil Missy]

46. Oh man, Ms M is a very toxic presence to a lot of people. and always has been.

Believe me, I have shuttled her out of my life many times and in many ways. And I am a person to avoid conflict and confrontation, to a fault. But she is so obnoxious and arrogant and has pushed to to the extreme, many times. As well as many others.

Her "hook" is that she has a free pass from the owner. (Who is also a pig who fucks every one in sight, and freely admits she has cheated on every one of them.) M works there for free, and even hands all the tips to K, the owner, just to have the power and privilege of acting like she has some status and authority there.

That is her venue for hitting on the young chicks. (To the point of harassment, because she will not take no for an answer.) No matter how many people get turned away by this obnoxious woman, K loves it because it's free help, and she gets to keep the tips for sitting on her butt all night.

We can't get rid of her or avoid her. And thank you, my life IS a lot more relaxed now that I only go there once a week when I hope she is not there.

So, we must put up with her on some level.

[Midlodemocrat]

29. In all honesty, If I were you, I'd drop M as a friend PDQ.

Sounds to me like she's not worth the aggravation.

The herpes thing? Tough one. But, I'd tell T that she has to come clean, or you'll tell M.

[Lil Missy]

48. She's not my friend, I just have learned to put up with her.

And the herpes thing? I do have a level of trust with T about that. I am actually rather flattered that she felt she could trust me with that information.

And even though there doesn't seem to be any possibility of cross pollinating, I have encouraged her to tell M about it. She's just scared half to death that it would ruin even so much as a friendship with them.

But if "matters" appear to escalate between them, I'll be the bad guy and break the news to M. I'll take a butt load of grief about it, because M is just a fucking idiot. I just can't allow that to happen.

Oh well.

[Midlodemocrat]

50. Sorry, misunderstood.

[Lil Missy]

63. No worries. I may not have been clear enough.

[Connonym]

44. If they're not being sexual then there's nothing to worry about

If you're really concerned you should tell T that she really must tell M before anything sexual happens. For the record, I got the big H from my husband (who lied about it) so I understand completely why you feel this way and I personally believe that it's immoral to NOT tell someone before you become sexually active but I think the telling is the responsibility of the party involved. Unless you know for a fact that T has a history of not being truthful I think you should allow her to tell M in her own time and her own way.

[Lil Missy]

51. I think T will be honest in her own time, and in her own way.

Not because she would act upon it, but because I think this secret is eating her alive right now.

[Roon]

45. I have the same situation with HIV

I tell everyone that is a potential partner that I am infected,that way there are no surprises.When I meet someone that I think I might like, I tell them within 15 minutes of meeting them.

[moriah]

58. I applaud you for that.

Seriously. While it may seem to be a no-brainer -- if you can pass on a deadly disease to someone, it's only fair to make sure your partner is aware of the risk -- but unfortunately some don't see it that way.

Like my father.

My parents got divorced when I was three. Dad was strung out on my namesake (meth) and did some really shitty things during the marriage. He and Mom made an agreement -- if he left the state and stayed out of our lives until I was grown, she wouldn't go after him for child support (or get him arrested).

When I was 12 years old, we got a phone call. Dad had been diagnosed with HIV and had attempted suicide. He thinks he got it from a specific instance where he shared needles with someone. Since there was concern that he might not live to see me grown, my mother agreed to let me visit him. Then he moved back to Arkansas, and he and my mother got back together.

Yes, Mom knew the risks, and they used protection. But as a teenager I really did not feel that the risk was acceptable, even with protection. Condoms aren't foolproof. My older sister from my mother's first marriage is a testament to the fact that condoms don't always work. I did not want to lose both of my parents to the same disease. (There was also the fact that Mom was practically supporting him, he took me in my mother's car to drug dens to buy, and when he mixed meth with booze he became a real asshole.) Mom finally left him when he stole both of our checkbooks and wrote hundreds of dollars in fraudulent checks.

Then Dad met a woman. To this day he still says that he loves her. But he didn't tell her that he had HIV. When he told us that he hadn't informed her of his status before they started sleeping together, he justified it by saying "We discussed HIV and she indicated she could be infected herself but was never tested, and we're using condoms." I went ballistic, and told her that if he didn't tell her, I would, because it was so horribly wrong for him not to tell her. He finally told her, and later on they decided to try to conceive a child, saying that with advances in treatments children weren't always born infected. She never got pregnant, but also has never been tested for HIV. They split up a few years later, although they still talk.

A similar thing happened a little later. He moved back to the coast where he met another woman, but didn't tell her his status. I chewed him out when he said that he hadn't told her. Then my paternal grandmother went into kidney failure and I flew out there. Even though I never threatened to tell his new girlfriend about his status, when Dad realized I was flying out there he told her because he knew that if he didn't, I would. Dad never had unprotected sex with her (she had no desire for children), and they broke up about a year ago. She called him at the 6 month mark to let him know she had tested clean.

I do love my father. I am aware of his shortcomings, but I still love him. I understand that he is lonely and he wants someone to spend his life with. I just cannot stand the idea of him exposing someone to even a miniscule risk without their knowledge, any more than I could stand the idea of my mother taking that small risk.

Thank you for making sure that your partners are aware of your status. I can only imagine how hard it would be to have to tell someone you really liked something that could easily make the relationship end. But if you really do like/love someone, I can't see not telling them.

[Lil Missy]

60. That's a very heartfelt and eye opening story, an very appropriate for this thread.

[moriah]

68. While herpes and HIV aren't quite the same thing...

... I still feel the principle of the matter is the same.

It's completely and totally unfair to risk exposing someone to an STD without their full knowledge and consent.

For your situation... I think it would be better for M to hear it from T herself. Unlike HIV, there are times that a person with herpes is not very likely to infect someone. There are medicines that reduce the risk. Safer sex also helps. (Of course, you know all that.)

From what you said in your original post, I think you feel the same way I do -- that T's personal business is T's personal business as long as there is no harm to anyone else. And if I were in your shoes, that's exactly what I would tell T -- that you would keep her confidence as long as she was not endangering your friend, but that if she did plan on being intimate with your friend that she'd better be completely honest, because if she wasn't, you would be.

Herpes may not kill someone, but it is still a life-changing disease. In that, it may be more similar to a friend of mine's case -- she contracted HPV. She knows exactly where she got it -- mind-altering substances and sex don't mix well. But before she gets intimate with anyone, she tells them about it. She doesn't want another girl to go through the anxiety she feels every time she gets a pap smear. And even though she is hetero, she knows that the person she is with could give it to another girl if she isn't honest and doesn't use protection. (That's part of the reason I really don't understand why they want to make the HPV vaccine for women only -- while HPV isn't known to cause cancer in men, they are still carriers, and if the goal is to eradicate such a disease then everyone should be vaccinated.)

The bottom line, though, is the same.... if a person truly likes/loves someone, they would want to be honest about it. I think the fact that T told you about it shows that she is an honest person, and would likely tell M if it looked like intimacy was likely. The fact she has not yet been intimate with her also tells me that she understands the necessity of honesty in this situation.

Good luck with this....

[Kali]

47. M probably has it too. Communication - its for sex too.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

52. Clear you head

You're taking on all sorts of stuff that's not yours, so just quit it and look at this situation dispassionately:

1. Neither of these women is your friend;
2. As you've stated, M is a pig;
3. T exploited and used you by confiding in you, quite inappropriately, given that you're neither a friend of hers or M's;
4. They are adults;
5. Ditch them both and let them sort it out.
6. None of it belongs to you.
7. You only "get put into a position" when you allow it.


Good luck.

[Lil Missy]

54. Wow. You read me quite quickly and succinctly. And accurately.

I slap myself on the forehead, and wonder again why do I get drawn into this shit.

I barely know this gal that trusted me with such a secret. Why she seems to be attracted to someone who everyone else considers a pig is an enigma to everyone else that knows M.

And why would a "nice girl", ever be attracted to the likes of M anyway? And agree to move in with her in a heartbeat? M wants nothing to do with her and is already trying to unload her.

There is something so missing in this picture. And you are right, it was presumptuous of T to drag me into this.

I think I have by bearings now.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

55. Thank you

I hesitated before posting, since I didn't want to add to your burden. You seem like a very nice person, but I was hoping you would be open to some - please forgive me for using this phrase - straight talk.

We're raised, aren't we, to be polite and listen and let others unburden themselves on us, and the truly conscientious among us - like you - take on their nonsense as if it were our duty to help, fix, assist, redeem, forgive, cure, all of the above them? the reality is that you truly have no idea of what the dynamic is between M and T - and it's best you don't know.

M and T sound like a couple of 20-watt bulbs to me.

As I said, good luck.

[Lil Missy]

57. LOL! Well, thank you too!

I am laughing because you thought I might be offended by "straight talk".

I can discuss anything, even in disagreement, as long as it is peaceful and respectful. I'm really not too hard to get along with.

Actually, the more I ponder the responses in this thread, I've had an evolution of thoughts and feelings.

I was not just due for some "straight talk" but maybe a butt kicking as well.

Thank you for your kind comments.

:hi:

[MsTryska]

59. DRAMA.

personally - I'm of the opinion that if you have communicable diseases - you should hold off on passing them on to other people until you've given said other people a heads up.


So - if the herpes girl would like to have sex with the crazy girl - herpes girl should tell crazy girl. If herpes girl is just couch-surfing thru crazy-girls life and doesn't plan on putting out, then maybe she can keep it to herself.


my 2 cents.

[Lil Missy]

61. DRAMA - no shit!

Happens every single fucking time M gets a "new girlfriend".

I am anxiously awaiting a response from T after telling her that she should be honest with M about it.

For sure, I am wiping my hands of this one way or another. Even if I have to violate the confidence and tell M myself.

[MsTryska]

62. Frankly I'm surprised M hasn't caught a case herself

already, considering all the random internet porn-girl adopting she seems to do.

[Lil Missy]

65. Now that you mention it, I kinda wonder too now.

M advertises and introduces herself as a "stone butch", whatever the hell that means. From what I've gathered over the past couple years from others that she has blessed with her overbearing persistence to never take no for an answer, it appears to mean the she will only give, and refuses to receive.

That is also how she describes and introduces herself on the porn sites and meets these obnoxious women that give all of us drama and headaches. She just wants the porn, as in naked, tits, or twat shots, and the rest is gravy.

But now that you mentioned it, maybe this is M's behavior for not passing it along. That never occurred to me before.

So maybe T and M would be a match made in heaven! (But I seriously doubt that.) M only goes for trash and tramps, no intelligence or even teeth required.

[MsTryska]

69. That's a shame...

does she seem happy with her lifestyle choice? M i mean.

If so, not much you can do but accept her as she is and avoid the trainwreck.

[Bucky]

64. If it's contagious. I don't see the ethical delimma here.

[Lil Missy]

66. Could you elaborate that comment a bit?

Are you saying that it is upon my shoulders to tell M?

Or on the shoulders of T, who is living with M and keeping this secret. Who also assures me she that she would not act upon any sexual urges or pass it on.

[Bucky]

67. I did elaborate, but then I found my response too socially offensive to share

So I deleted it. Officially, it's none of my business; I simply forgot to delete the subject line while I was at it.

I don't know any of the people involved, so I can't speak to the particulars of what you should do in this particular situation. In general I think people with communicable diseases have the obligation to be upfront with those they might come into transferable range with. In general I think you only get into someone else's business if there's a serious risk involved in not doing so. In particular I think assurances of confidentiality are trumped by a third party's health and safety considerations, particularly when that confidentiality is based on simple embarrassment.

But I have no way of knowing whether any of those ideas of mine are applicable to your particulars. I hate people nosing into my business and try to give my acquaintences as wide a berth as possible in personal matters. But I'm driven enough by irrational guilt in my own head that I know I'd always wonder if something bad did happen that I could have prevented by butting in.

[Evoman]

70. I would ALWAYS tell my bud if a girl he was dating had herpes.

I don't give a shit....my loyalty is to my friend, and if the girl he likes has an std, and I find out, he is going to find out about 20 seconds later.

Of course, none of my friends are as stupid as M, but still.

I don't care how nice the girl is, I'm protecting my friend.

[Lil Missy]

71. UPDATE: T told M, so it's all off my shoulders now.

Whew!

But I am not too sure T is being very realistic. She still wants some kind of a relationship, as in holding hands, snuggling, etc., and M is having no part of that. It's just not "her". So now T is hurt and frustrated.

I am so done with this. She may be a nice gal, but there is still something so puzzling with this. Nobody has ever been attracted to M, and T moved in with someone she barely knew to begin with. So they can both clean up this mess by themselves.

I'm Done.