Another thread that won't make me very popular around here

[otherlander]

So the other night I was walking down the street and this guy walks up to me and says, "Hey." And I say, "What?" And he says, "I'm single, will you go out with me?" And I say, "No." And he says, "I live by myself... And I'm only eighteen!" And I say, "Dude, you're like, forty or something. And I don't fuck strangers." And he gets all offended. "You're insulting me!" And I just say, "Whatever. Peace." and walk away.

Now as a queer feminist currently in a straight relationship... I realize that most other feminists would probably say that I should be pissed off at this guy. Hell, forget feminists, most adults would probably say that the instant he started talking to me, I should have... run. Run away! Really really fast! Vroom.

However.

I didn't feel threatened at all, because we were on a public street. Other people could see us. If he had tried something, I probably could have fought him off anyway. He was kind of short. My boyfriend's over six feet tall and when we practice our karate against each other, we get into some pretty intense sparring matches and I can hold my own. So I didn't feel that he was a significant threat, is the point.

Also.
On the subject of gender roles.
They suck. For everyone.
Yes, I'm aware of male privelege. However, being aware of that, I still feel lucky in some ways to have been born female. Yes, I'm going to have to fight against people taking me less seriously than they would take someone without boobs. Yes, some neighborhoods are still more dangerous for me than they would be for someone with a dick. On the other hand, nobody expects me to be macho. Same-gender friends won't mock me for expressing emotion. Society does not laugh at me if I do not act as a sexual conquerer. Because, ultimatley, that's what society expects males to be. And honestly, it sounds like a real drag.

I try to imagine what it would be like to be bombarded with messages from every direction telling me that the more people I fucked (not even made love to, which is completley different), the more people would like me. And that valuing friendship more than sex would make me a loser. And that looking for deep emotional connections was something that only that "other" half of the human race should do. I imagine what it would be like to be very lonely, but have everything I had learned up to that point telling me that I could only be saved by getting laid. Would I be "with it" enough to realize that all that was a lie? I don't know.

I do think that restrictive gender constructs are harmful to everyone: Yes, to females more so than to males. But they don't really make anyone truly happy. I wish that people of both genders would realize that. It would go a long way towards letting people be friends, or lovers...or maybe even comrades, which is what people with radical views must become if they want to tear down this unhealthy construct.

Some people say that they cried reading romance novels, or other tragedies. Me? I cried reading The Proud Tower. When the Socialists basically voted to declare war... on themselves. Yes, I realize what an incredible dork that makes me. But it's the lack of connection that gets me: The inability of people to realize the goals that they share, to realize that they both have something to gain from working against the same harmful institutionalized norms. No, I'm not saying that we should all just join hands and sing songs. Yes, I realize that in order for people to be allies, there must also be an acknowledgement of the advantage that society gives one group over the other.

So. DU has already decided that I'm apparently the worst kind of atheist there is. And now it comes out that I feel sorry for creepy old men. What say you, Lounge? Shall we add "World's Worst Feminist" to that list?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

1. what an odd post. its almost like you are daring feminists to insult you

why would you do that?

[otherlander]

3. Everything I say

is going to piss somebody off. Might as well be honest.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

4. But it still is belligerent.

:shrug:

[otherlander]

5. Would it not be belligerent

without the last paragraph?

[WritingIsMyReligion]

7. About feeling sorry for creepy old men?

No. It's more just how you seem a little "LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT HOW UNTRADITIONALLY FEMINIST I CAN BE!!" throughout the whole thing. :D

I agree with vast swaths of it, but it seems a little attention-seeking.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

9. well stated

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. its not just belligerent. its kind of saying her thought is controversial amongst

feminists when it is not.

its also buying into the argument that feminists think as a monolith

[WritingIsMyReligion]

10. Which is damaging to the whole concept of trying to break down gender expectations.

:)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

6. not really, you interacted with this guy like most people do. if i had to run everytime someone hit

on me. i would be running like a crazy maniac all over manhattan. highly undignified. also gender is not our only view of seeing the world. most young people, somewhat pity old people who hit on them. its not just you.

gender roles are restrictive. very few feminists argue against this.

in emotional ways, male gender roles are more restrictive than female one. in public life and financially women are more restricted

none of what you post is exactly controversial.

so i dont get why you couch it, as though it should be antagonist to feminists.

[otherlander]

12. I'm used to a lot of feminists- especially second-wave ones-

considering me a "fake" feminist because I have no problem with open relationships, polyamory, free love, BDSM, hentai, or pornography. So I figured that feeling bad for creepy older men instead of being angry at them, and looking at them as people who were harmed by the same systems that harmed me- people who, like me, would benefit from the removal of gender-constructs, instead of looking at them as people who were sexist and should be seen as enemies- would just be one more thing to be held against me.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

13. none of these things make you particularly special

but calling out feminists who typically try to improve our lives, is a bit silly

[otherlander]

16. I don't think it was calling anyone out.

I realize that it's because of feminists that I am where I am today, trying to become a journalist instead of preparing for a life as a housewife. However, I do get a bit tired of people who know nothing about me calling my opinions tools of the patriarchy.

On Edit: I know for a fact that a lot of feminists find porn and BDSM to be sexist. So I guessed that they might find a statement like "Men are harmed by restrictive gender roles" to be a defense of/apology for sexism. If that's not the case, and that statement is widely acknowledged to be true, then that relieves me greatly.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

28. i think you want applause for being uncommon and against the grain

personally i think you are neither. atleast not for the reasons you have stated in this thread

[pitohui]

22. do they consider you "fake" or do they just consider you "pathetic?"

i feel sorry for someone who feels obligated to engage with creepy old men, if that makes me a bad human being so be it, i don't have to talk or discuss or pity or do anything other than just walk away when a creep hits on me, if i spent all my time feeling sorry for every sexual predator out there i'd get nothing else done all day

you are spending a lot of energy on people who aren't worth it and that's very sad

there is a big difference between being able to have an open relationship or a bdsm relationship with people i trust and feeling obligated to answer questions from creepy old men on the street

your boundaries are weak, and weak boundaries aren't something to be proud of, being weak is not feminist, it is being exactly the same old traditional female doormat that we had a thousand years ago, saying "i'll stand here and answer all your questions even if you're a creepy old man because you are a fellow pathetic human being like myself" is just...well...it's just pathetic really

anyone can call herself a feminist but the real feminist is strong

you are more afraid of offending a person you yourself describe as a "creepy old man" than you are of frank discussion with other more experienced women -- that is not feminist, that is anti-feminist, even the worst male is more worthy of your time and attention than the wisest female -- and these insightful "second wave" feminists that you dismiss because they're old (but if they're old men you would actually talk to them and care about them, so hmmm) -- well, your disdain of older women is clear to the bone in your post -- that is not feminist, that is just standard hatred of women since we are not allowed to age in this society

and that's just sad that you even think you are a feminist when it's clear you fear and hate women who are older and more experienced

i hope my read is wrong, but that's the read i'm getting from your post with its gratuitous slams at the second wave (who have probably had more and better and crazier sex than you do, and some of it in a age where you didn't have to be wrapped in plastic)

if a lot of wise older people think you have a problem, you probably do, it's along the principle of if three people say you're drunk, you're drunk

i'm here to say from the sound of it, you're fairly drunk

don't worry about feeling pity for sexual predators, total waste of time

[otherlander]

25. You know nothing about me.

FIRST OF ALL: My boundaries are not weak. I'm not even in a BDSM or open relationship: I'm in a straight, monogamous one.

SECOND OF ALL: I don't dismiss ANYONE because they're "old". You just MADE THAT UP. I realize that second-wave feminists won many of the rights I have today, but at the same time, I think they were wrong about pornography, BDSM, and open relationships.

THIRD OF ALL: I'm not drunk. You're the one who was freaking out because a newspaper ran an ad with a drawing of female genitals in it. :eyes:

[Runcible Spoon]

30. how do you think the OP's boundaries are weak?

just curious....

[Chan790]

2. No...

it sounds like you've got your head on straight.

[Fire Walk With Me]

11. Our culture is bereft of healthy rights of passage for men.

It's no surprise that we turn to competitive sex, conspicuous consumption, and material possessions as imprimaturs of our worth. Instead of having self-esteem as a result of performing esteemable acts.

Considering how bad it is for me, it must be even worse for women, to have to endure such things. However, the problem itself calls for solutions, so perhaps we'll see at some point, as a result of awareness, an upward, esteemable trend.

(I'm fairly certain that without "sports", we'd fall into complete war. Ego is competitive, which leads to us versus them, and in the end, it's what the fighting's all about...those wise men are right about that..)

However, I do have to give credit to the guy for trying, if he was being honest and not simply looking to take. I wasn't there so I'll trust your report, that "would you like to go out with me" meant "I only want to use you", and "I'm 18" was utterly inaccurate.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

14. Whatever trips your trigger. Isn't this just adding another

gender defined role to your already growing list of things that suck? Why do it? But, if it makes you happy then go for it, I say.

[billyskank]

15. .

.

[Lethe]

17. why is a queer feminist in a straight relationship?

unless i don't understand the mean of the word queer

?

i don't see why the post would make you unpopular?

I don't see why a feminist would be angry by a man hitting on them either.

[otherlander]

20. Most people would call me bisexual.

However, I prefer the word queer.

Creepy older men hitting on college students, lying about their age, and being offended when you refuse to fuck them? That would piss a lot of people off, I think.

[Lethe]

26. it's inconclusive from the OP

The guy says he "just wants to go out with you", according to your OP. That's why I said I don't get why someone would be angry about it.

[Shiver]

18. I'm sorry...

...but the point seems to have alluded me. I can tell it's there, and I've become curious as to what it is, but I can't seem to grasp it...

[otherlander]

21. Okay. The point is...

that I wish that people of both genders would realize how harmful sexism is to everyone in society, so that they could work together against it. However, as often happens on the internet, I was fully prepared for my point to be mistaken for something other than what it was- maybe mistaken for something like a defense of sexism.

[pitohui]

24. the point is how wonderful she is for stopping to talk to and pity a sexual predator

a normal healthy woman does not stand around talking to a creepy old man, she walks on, but this poster appears to be in rebellion against "second wave feminists" by which she means i suppose that she hates her mom who would have told her to walk on rather than engaging in conversation with the guy

standard teen-age angst but every generation thinks they have discovered something new i guess

and the rooster thinks the sun has risen because he crowed in the morning

[otherlander]

27. Bullshit.

Now I'm drunk and I hate my parents? You just love making shit up about people, don't you?

[Runcible Spoon]

31. oh who cares. maybe some people get a power surge from verbally sparring with

random inappropriately aggressive horny guys, "predators" in your language. Usually I walk on by, but if I'm in a rare mood I might throw something back at them using very long words that will confuse them. That pretty much diffuses the situation. If I feel threatened and they follow, I find a crowded place.

The problem is NOT how women, or anyone else respond to sexually aggressive strangers, it's WHY our society raises people to feel entitled to come on to people like that.

We owe a great debt to "second wave" feminists, but as others have posted out, feminism is fundamentally about choice and is not monolithic. Breaking free from proscriptive roles means being FREE TO FUCK UP TOO.

BUt dismiss and judge away at her "standard teenage angst" if you like.

[Shiver]

29. Okay, I suppose I can almost see that in the post.

However, this message is easily mistaken by the over-confrontational nature of the post. You're expecting people to disagree with you, and thus you're being preemptively defensive. This doesn't do anything to help your argument, and thus, it becomes somewhat self-defeating.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

39. you wanted to point out the harms of sexism by calling out feminists?

[bridgit]

19. cool...

[Haole Girl]

23. Whether you know karate or not

..this sounds like a potentially dangerous situation. And if you think strangers, on a public street at night, would have helped if you'd gotten into trouble then you are sadly mistaken. Be careful. I'd hate for you to have to learn how dangerous your situation could have been the hard way. :-(

[ForrestGump]

32. I'm not going to address the rest of it (starting with 40 being 'old'...I'm feeling a McCain coming

on here), but I think it might be helpful for you to be aware of the dangers of overconfidence in your ability to fend off an assailant. Yeah, I'm sure you were probably perfectly safe in that situation and it was at least 98% certainly so. Still, I think I'd be ratcheting down the comfort level a bit more, just to be on the safe side.

I'm male, so obviously don't face some of the fears and threats perceived by many women who go out in the world, even if our day's activities take us to exactly the same places. I'm also a 6'5" male who is fairly physically robust. I'm also a 6'5" robust male who has seriously studied Chinese martial arts for half my life. The reality is that I'd have at least an edge in most physical confrontations, starting with doing my utmost to remove myself from it or redirect the negative vibes that set it in motion.

Even so, I'd be very wary of figuring that a person was a possible threat but that I could prevail in an altercation with him (or her). Yes, I think it's a positive thing to fight fast and hard if you have no option, but sometimes confidence that turns out to be baseless can erode your options, starting with removing several avenues of retreat. And, sometimes, a little training can be a very dangerous thing (to you...not them). I don't know how much martial arts experience you have, but it takes quite a bit to really be able to use it in much of a meaningful way as actual martial technique, unchoreographed and far less refined than in a training hall, and with some styles and schools (tae kwon do is a very popular one that is a good example) the kind of thing even experienced black belts train with is often not only going to not work well in a real fight but will increase likelihood of serious injury. Many martial artists, whether because of the kind of training they've had or factors innate to their school's lineage and focus or the 'completeness' of their style (or just sheer lack of training time), are not well equipped to fight outside of a ring or a very unrealistic point-sparring scenario.
Further, no matter how intense your sparring matches with your boyfriend are, I seriously doubt he is hammering on you with the power or targeting vulnerable parts of your anatomy in an unsportmanlike way; unless you're routinely bleeding and repairing dislocated joints and compound fractures after your sessions, I mean, and all that goes a little beyond BDSM, for sure, into the potentially-lethal category. Safe words certainly do not work on the street. As if that weren't all bad news enough, even a creepy old little guy can carry a knife or a gun, and the best martial artists I've ever known wouldn't be too thrilled with either of those particular pieces in play.

In short, humility in martial arts is not just a quaint Asian tradition but is a survival tool. Don't overestimate yourself and don't underestimate them. Fight like hell, if you have to, but only if there is no other option because you never know until it's too late whether it might be one of those times when one person gets dead and the other just gets seriously injured and perhaps permanently impaired.

[ForrestGump]

34. P.S.

Perhaps I should clarify that I am neither advocating you being paranoid or weighed down by fear and suspicion in such encounters nor disagreeing with you that this man was unlikely a real threat of any kind, especially given the public nature of the encounter (not that this is always a harbinger of safety). I just got the sense that you might be a little too dismissive of the risk inherent to some of these street encounter or, at least, overly confident of your ability to handle it if it all went bad.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

35. hey there.... nice to see ya!

:hi:

[ForrestGump]

37. Hi!

Haven't been on DU at all in quite a while (I've been up 24 hours now, though, which is about the point at which DU starts to look better again to me) but I have to say that one of the remaining redeeming features of this here community is that lionesspriyanka is aboard. I hope everything in your life is going weller than well!

:hug:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

38. meh, i didnt do as well on my gre's as i would like. and i am fat.

also apparently, i have to get this really painful test done, since something maybe pinching a nerve in my arm

also, du is hideously boring these days.

doom and gloom is me.

[ForrestGump]

40. On the bright side, you got those pesky GREs out of the way

and you do, indeed, look great to anyone with any modicum of aesthetic taste at all (or with a pulse, for that matter), not to mention the more enduring attributes that have nothing to do with perception via the five physical senses. So, with that in mind, march in to get that test done with full knowledge that, although it may hurt for a few moments, there are worse things (like entering GD: P in its current-incarnation-same-as-the-old-incarnation) and that it's just a blip along the way to ever more better things. That said, I hope that not only does the test hurt much less than expected but that it quickly yields the answer that restores you to optimal lionessy function.

Can't do much about DU, though... :D

[GirlinContempt]

57. "humility in martial arts is not just a quaint Asian tradition but is a survival tool"

:applause:

[Book Lover]

74. +1

:thumbsup:

[Lil Missy]

59. Thanks, FG. That was a really a very good admonition to anyone, and everyone.

I honestly don't know what I would do if someone attacked me, or broke into my home. But I'd for sure leave a few marks, and crack him in the jewels. No way I'd go out without putting up a fight.

And, God forbid, that will never happen anyway.

[Jamastiene]

65. Hey, you.

:hi: I've missed you. :hug:

[ScreamingMeemie]

33. The "Worst Kind of Atheist there is"? We did? Really?

Why...you flatter yourself. No need for me to give my opinion. :)

[lildreamer316]

36. I can understand what you are saying. Especially here:

"I do think that restrictive gender constructs are harmful to everyone: Yes, to females more so than to males. But they don't really make anyone truly happy. I wish that people of both genders would realize that. It would go a long way towards letting people be friends, or lovers...or maybe even comrades, which is what people with radical views must become if they want to tear down this unhealthy construct."

I cannot count how many times I have started to have a great; communicative, wonderful true friendship with a man, when suddenly all of those constructs and expectations come crowding down on him..and all of a sudden, either he must fuck me or leave the friendship. It absolutely sucks.

And I can stand with you a tad on the feminists attacking somewhat - being an adult entertainer and all (stripper). LOL. In fact, the above scenario is part of the reason I love exotic dancing jobs so much - in that atmosphere, it is OK for a man to open up to me on a personal level...because he feels secure in what his role is. I have made several good and enduring friends from it. People don't get that. It's too bad.Of course, I am just reinforcing the constructs with my job; but I tell you; for some reason it makes some men more able to transcend them. Opposite effect, really.

[rug]

41. How do you like Hemingway?

[Boojatta]

42. Yes.

You're the World's Worst Feminist. Coincidentally, I'm the World's Best Feminist.

[Chovexani]

43. "I'm a special snowflake, marvel at my ability to throw out troll bait! Give me a cookie!"

See, I just saved you a whole lot of words.

[LisaL]

44. The other day I was walking, and the guy called me "hey baby"

and I walked way and said nothing to him. There. Does it make me a great feminist or what?
:rofl:

[Genevieve]

45. 40 is old?

LMAO.

[LisaL]

46. To someone who is 20 it must be ancient.

[Genevieve]

47. Not to most 20somethings I know.

:shrug:

[Nikia]

48. I thought that a lot of feminists believed that men were restricted by patriarchy also

Whether or not they agree with porn or on either side of other gender related issues which feminists might disagree about.
I do think that creepy older guy is a jerk and I don't think he is acting that way just to prove what a man he is, but I could be wrong.

[petronius]

49. So, will you go out with me, or what?

:shrug:

Seriously, as a guy, I find your post rather interesting, and I agree that pre-conceived gender roles can be constrictive, but your concept of the male experience is a bit of a stereotype (for example, we do seek out deep emotional connections, we just encode those connection as a mutual hatred of the Yankees or the Patriots or the Stars... ;))

Funny story, by the way - and 40 is nowhere near old!

[otherlander]

50. It's not *old*, but it's way too old to be asking me out.

Also, I don't think men actually fit into the stereotypes, but I think they must feel pressured to... which was kinda the point.

[petronius]

55. I got that - what I was saying is that your notion of the pressures themselves

is stereotyped. Or at least exaggerated (IMO/IME, of course...)

[Lil Missy]

51. Oh, tell him to stick in his fucking ear. I was hit on by a guy, AGAIN last week, in a lesbian bar.

I do not mind the friendly, or straight but not narrow guys that come in there sometimes. I consider some of them good buddy's.

But, I seem to have this magnet about me that attracts men as much as 20 years older to somehow "save" me from the gay lifestyle. I don't know why older men like me, but that has been the story of my life.

Enough to say that I only visit a lesbian bar now, and this shit still continues. What more could I say or do? And it really pisses me off.

[Withywindle]

52. Alright, straight men (or bi men looking for a woman) need to stay the fuck out of lesbian bars.

I mean, I'm kind of a fag hag and been to my share of male gay bars - to hang out with friends, on the one hand, and to enjoy the eye candy, I must admit...but trying to get a guy to go home with me THERE? Obviously not happening, and I'd have looked both rude and stupid if I tried. :wtf:

[Lil Missy]

56. I am not sure what is your beef. Your profile says female, but your complaint is about gay men bars.

I never said bi men were not welcome in the lesbian bar, nor would I ever refer to anyone, male or female, as a "fag hag". That is offensive.

I simply said that it irritates the shit out of me that old geezers 20 years older than me come in there and think they can make me straight. Even after I make it plenty clear that I am queer as a $3 dollar bill, and don't care to switch, or even experiment on the other side.

They come into a LESBIAN bar, and pull this shit with me, for crissakes. So, why shouldn't I consider it rude and fucking obnoxious? I make my position clear, and excuse me, but the "saviors" can go fuck themselves.

And really, why would you have a profile as a female, and give me shit about going to gay men bars and not getting a bite from bi men in male gay bars? Don't piss on my leg nd tell me it is raining. I was born on a Friday, but it wasn't LAST Friday.

I DO hope you can accomplish a good fuck soon. Good luck.

[Withywindle]

58. Huh what?

My whole point was, don't go into bars known as a home for a different orientation and expect to get a pickup. As a woman, I can't expect to pick up men at a men's gay bar and it would be boorish and gross of me to try; THAT was my main point.

I'd never heard the term "fag hag" in my life until a close (gay) friend said to me--he meant it affectionately. So I claim it with pride now, because it was given to me by someone I respect.

I AM female. I AGREE with you. I don't know why you're flaming.

[Lil Missy]

60. Well now, this is rather confusing. You approached me with:

"Alright, straight men (or bi men looking for a woman) need to stay the fuck out of lesbian bars."

Well, that did seem rather confrontational to me. And I would agree that it is probably not a good idea to try to pick up bi men in a lesbian bar. That is what seemed to be your beef.

And yeah, I DO think it is, uhm .. kinda silly, for a bi man, or a bi woman, or perhaps you are a straight woman, to come looking for a mate or a fuck in a male gay bar? Would you agree that it sounds kinda silly, if not stupid? And that would be equally, if not MORE silly, to visit a women's bar to look for a straight fuck?

I wish you well, I really do. Just don't look for it in gay bars anymore. Okay?

Thanks.

[Withywindle]

61. Again, huh, wat?

I'm a bi woman with a leaning towards men. One of the reasons I enjoy gay male bars so much is that that's a nice place to have a drink with friends and dance and watch and yet know I'll be left alone from unwanted aggressive attentions.

I know that in some lesbian bars it's the same thing: some men are welcome to hang out as guests and friends, but don't be putting sexual pressure on any woman!

I'm a bi woman who likes to meet sexual partners, of either gender, in nerd-related book clubs and rock clubs and online and through friends of friends; bars are where I go to relax and hang out with friends and listen to music and dance and I don't find pickup pressure welcome from *any* orientation at any time (though of course I enjoy looking).

The reason I made my original post is that, as a woman (orientation irrelevant) I know very well how tiresome unwanted advances are, and it's 10 times worse in a lesbian bar where I think men damn well ought to know better if they're going to be there at all.

I have no idea why you're convinced I have some kind of agenda about getting laid in anybody's bar. Or why you think I'm not a woman. :wtf:

[Lil Missy]

66. I'll take your word that you are a woman, no problem.

Tomorrow .... I gotta go to bed...

:boring: :boring: :boring:

[Withywindle]

63. Ah, now I see the problem.

I meant to commiserate with you and phrased it clumsily. Let's start over: My point was that is it is NOT OK for this guy to hit on you in a lesbian bar, any more than it would be cool for me to hit on men in a gay male bar.

Is my meaning clear at last?

[Lil Missy]

71. Now I see what you mean.

Sure, it's fine for men to hit up on women in a lesbian bar, so long as they are prepared to take no for an answer. Fine, move along, all is still friendly.

But it's not relevant to my original comment:

"But, I seem to have this magnet about me that attracts men as much as 20 years older to somehow "save" me from the gay lifestyle. "

Suggesting that I need to be "saved" is another matter entirely, and rude. (This after they have been politely declined for a date.)

[Withywindle]

72. Well, that's offensive no matter your age or theirs.

"Thanks but no thanks" should **always** be sufficient when someone makes a pass, no matter the genders or orientations involved.


I think that if men go to a lesbian bar, they should understand that it's not "their" place and they're there as guests, and obviously the women there are not looking for a man. That was my point with the analogy of being a (bi but leaning towards men) woman who goes with friends to gay male bars--I'm a guest. It's utterly pointless for me to go there with "expectations", and if I were to press the point it would just be crass and embarrassing and I would justifiably find myself no longer welcome.

For women especially, it's great to have a place to go where there will be no unwelcome advances (another thing I like about male gay bars, honestly). Lord knows even a workplace or a sidewalk carries no such relaxation.

[Lil Missy]

76. Then we do agree.

:hi:

[Withywindle]

73. Also I think if some creepy old man says to you

"You just haven't been with the right man yet," you should say: "Obviously, neither have you!" :evilgrin:

[Robeson]

53. You were dealing with an emotionally retarded person.

[Withywindle]

54. WTF is your issue here?

Guy flirted with you, you flirted back briefly and then said 'thanks but no thanks' and walked on.

Anytime any woman goes out in social space, this is a pretty run of the mill encounter. Happens to me at least twice a day (downtown Chicago) and I'm not even all that good looking or young (closer to his age than yours).

You learn how to shrug it off. YOu sound like this is the first time you've ever confronted this situation, which makes me suspect you either grew up in a totally isolated suburb, or you're about 14.

[Jamastiene]

62. This has to be the broadest brush ever seen on DU.

You must have had that broad brush custom made.

What's with the chip on your shoulder? Calm the fuck down. Take a chill pill and just talk to people without the animosity. You might find more people agreeing with parts of what you said than you think if you didn't come off so damn obnoxious about it. If you were trying to advance any intellectual thought or discussion, that OP was an EPIC FAIL.

Chill the fuck out. I have an extra Fukitol, a Chill Pill, with your name written all over it. I wish I had two for you, because it sure sounds like you need it. Whew!

[ismnotwasm]

64. Dude

Relax. Buncha drunk landscapers turned their truck around to hand me flowers. Guy in the hardware store tells me how lucky my husband is after asking if I'm married. Whatever. Happens.

I'm a hard core patriarchy blaming feminist, but that doesn't mean I'm rude at an honest compliment, even if I feel it's misguided. The flowers tickled me no end, it was so cute.

I'm glad you're tough. I had some very tough friends who are very dead. Just take care ok?

Gender roles are or can be, either or both good and bad. What fucks it up is imbalance, which is still probably best demonstrated by what our perceptions are about the sexual activity of women vs the sexual activity of men.


Yes, the old madonna/whore complex. And the stud.

I don't feel sorry for sexually entitled males. They grown.

What kind of feminist you are, is your business. At least you claim the title, which is a lot more than many women do.

[Skittles]

67. you sound like one real attractive gal

:o

[timtom]

68. Actually, you sound quite intriguing.

You think for yourself, refuse to be plaster-cast into any conventional mold. Proud to have an opportunity to respond to your post.

[MissMillie]

69. I think your assessment of what people *would* say is off the mark

I think when you automatically give people all the information at the beginning of the story, you'd find that they'd agree w/ you.

A public place w/ a lot of people around isn't terribly threatening.

I think you need to stop worrying whether you fit into categories like atheist, feminist.....

Be who you are. No need to put a label on it.

[Deep13]

70. It IS a real drag and I have never been good at it. nt

[Book Lover]

75. I'm throwing you in the deep end...

Here's something totally out of left field for you: http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm

I am curious to know what you think.

By the way, do you read Twisty?