Is it true that if you're not successful by the age of (X), you never will be?

[Bicoastal]

In a thread about Barack Obama's young speechwriter, someone opined that if you're not a success before the age of 27, you probably will similarly unsuccessful your entire life.

True or untrue, this hit a nerve for me. I turn 27 next year, and although I hardly qualify as a failure, I'm certainly not a success--especially not the level of success that allows me easy access to someone of Barack Obama's stature. In fact, I'm single, under-employed, and living in one of the smallest rooms in Brooklyn. Worse yet, in my field (music), the biggest superstars tend to find success at fairly young ages--which may explain why so many of them tailspin into drugs, alcohol, and messy marriages later in life. But I digress...

Now there are plenty of exceptions to this rule, even in music--for example, Deborah Harry of Blondie? She was a nobody throughout her 20's, temping and waitressing in New York, before becoming a major rock star/sex symbol. In fact, at the time of her band's first album, 1976, she was already 31 years old. And then, if you want to look at people who changed the world, look at Ulysses S Grant. In 1860, on the eve of the Civil War, he was working in his father's leather shop in Illinois, having failed at every single thing he attempted since the end of the Mexican-American War. He was 38, an alcoholic and a complete unknown. By 1865, he had blossomed into one of the most powerful and well-respected military men in the entire country--and that was before he became a two-term president.

Still, are these two people just outliers--flukes, if you will? Is it generally true that there is an expiration date for success and happiness?

[pitohui]

1. it isn't so much because of your age but because of what makes people "successful"

think about what would have to happen to be successful before age 27 -- think of who you would have to know and what connections you would have to make

virtually everyone who is successful in the conventional sense is successful because of their network/family connections/inheritance -- even jesus's dad in the world wasn't some random but rather a rich man descended of the house of david, god himself didn't trust his son to be born to a family of unknowns because he just wouldn't have gotten the publicity

it's who you know or who you blow, and you already knew them by age 27 because of family connections or you blew them while you were still young enough for them to want you to do that

when you get out there and meet people, it's absolutely stunning how much brilliance and talent is out there, so, for conventional "success," since there are millions of people to choose from, for the most part, the rich and powerful will choose their own spawn

i don't know what to tell you except you're probably not deborah harry, you're probably not grandmother moses, and you probably never will be

most people who dream of being a superstar who don't have connections or hit lucky early are going to be unhappy people and make those around them unhappy

as for u.s. grant if that's success, bless your heart, he lived and died an alcoholic who fucked this country over and presided over the most corrupt adminstration all the way up until fucking reagan -- think about it -- if THAT is success, then it's wrong to be successful, destroying people and hurting the world, yes, in a technical sense, when you fuck the world, you're changing it, but it would be a far far better thing to be a nobody

follow the buddha and do no harm

any random unknown super market checker girl is a better person and is a more positive influence on this planet than president grant! you could put dubya himself in the late bloomer category, sorry, if just getting put in public office is called being a success, he's just as successful -- he too destroyed this country but hey! he did it after 40 and is an example to us middle aged unknowns everywhere somehow? I. Don't. Think. So.

also "happiness" has nothing to do w. "success," most "successful" people seem pretty miserable from the look of it, do you think britney spears is happy? do you think karl rove is? it seems almost impossible to be both successful AND happy, because if you are successful in the sense of the big names you name, you will never have privacy, so you're always looking over your shoulder

forget "success" of that kind if you seek happiness

[crispini]

2. Untrue. Rex Stout started writing the Nero Wolfe novels

in his 40s ... and they were wildly successful.

[Rabrrrrrr]

3. Only in math and physics, and even then, not neccessarily.

One might be able to average things out to 27, but if we look at successful business people, almost none of them make big time until their 30s and older, because they have to work their way up.

Probably what most times is that, by the time a person is 27, their personality and ambition are already set in to either be on the path to success or be there already, or never to have a shot at it simply because they don't really want it enough to go for it.

And it depends on how one measures "success", as well. A successful doctor will never be under 27, because there are almost no doctors that young due to the length of medical training. Same with lawyers and judges, clergy and professors.

[redqueen]

4. Depends on what you mean by success.

Success as a competitive gymnast? Yeah.

In other ways, not so much.

[Bicoastal]

5. Nerts. I'm burning my unitard tonight.

:(

[Tuesday Afternoon]

17. don't forget prima ballerinas --

[Chan790]

6. I'd argue "No"

though I would concede it really matters what your idea of success is (and the field you're seeking it).

I'm 29 next week with a resume filled with unemployment, underemployment and poverty-level wages and a B.A. in Political Theory specialized in Poli. Comm. (Translation: writing about politics), I'd freely concede that it's a bit late for me to be jumping into the game if I was striving for success in business or working in the field of politics. I'm about 8 years behind the 8-ball if I were looking to launch a career aimed at traditional measures of success. The only way I'm ever having a seat in a boardroom is if I own the company.

However, this is not my life's ambition...I strive to work in arts philanthropy (I volunteer in this field. I dreamed of being an artist but I don't have that talent.) and my primary talent is as a writer. (I'm published but nowhere important and the winner of a collegiate literary prize.) I'm still too young to have much success as a writer as I am still, as my grandpa would say, fucking wet behind the ears and stinking of cabbage. (A child) You don't see a great deal of success for most writers until their mid-30s at the earliest due to lack of life-experience to draw from. I just got a great job though...I'm going to work as a Film Production Assistant for an indie house in NYC that is about to explode onto the scene (they have a film coming out which won a prize at a major festival.) and my employer is contractually-encouraging me to write on their time because that would make anything created a work-for-hire and confer screen rights. I view this as win-win...they have a vested interest in getting me published and my success. They like my ideas and style; having been: homeless, underemployed, a drunkard, a poet, abused as a child, successful in some things and a failure in others, addicted to drugs, a working writer, a campus radical, a street-corner philosopher, a lover, a volunteer, a starving artist and a wage-slave...I have experiences to draw from in my writing.

Oh...and I can write like a riot. Nobody has ever questioned that. Comparisons to James Joyce with a cynical dystopian worldview more like Vonnegut. Throw in a playful rakish malevolence and a touch of magical thinking and you've got my voice.

I'm 29 and I'm just hitting my stride.

[bikebloke]

7. I'd ignore that script.

Too many people regarded as successful got where they were due to relatives and cronies. So how can that be success when they didn't do anything. I've been in plenty of work environments where those nepots and cronies looked down their noses at me, while I had to pull their slack.

Anyway, as mentioned, it depends what success is. Right now we're in a schadenfreude time, where some of those considered "successful" are sinking.

[hobbit709]

8. Define "successful"

[Danger Mouse]

9. That someone is full of shit.

Anybody can turn their life around.

[cemaphonic]

10. Even in music, there are people like Philip Glass and Steve Reich

who were both pushing 40 when they hit it big.

[alarimer]

11. Success is how YOU define it, not what someone else says it is.

Most people who are "successful" like that speechwriter (and who knows where he will be in 5 years) have connections. They can get into the "right" schools and meet the right people there who can help them there. It is true of almost every politician.

Almost none of the people you are talking about make it on their own. The rest of us have to muddle through somehow and because of our lack of connections, we are not as "successful". I wouldn't sweat it. Define it as you wish.

[Xipe Totec]

12. if X is a variable, then absolutely! n/t

[mykpart]

13. It's not true.

Colonel Sanders was in his 60s when he began KFC. Madeline Albright divorced after 25 years of marriage when she entered public life. There are character actors who began careers in their 40s. If it weren't so late and I weren't so tired I'm sure I could cite many other examples.

[harmonicon]

14. I guess it depends on what success means

If this supposition about age 27 is true, I'm screwn. However, I think I'm a success. I make music, and people that I respect like it. That's successful for me. I'm scared as hell about what I'm going to do once I'm done with my PhD. I don't know that I'll be able to make any money, but I've been around long enough to not let that be what determines whether or not I'm successful.

One thing that I greatly envy are people who are successful at life. At having a family, a stable home life, a healthy romantic relationship, etc. I know that I'm a failure at that, but I don't think age has anything to do with it. Still, it's not so great to know that I'm getting older and that lots of women my age are getting married or involved with people who aren't me. *sigh*

[Shell Beau]

15. I have heard stories of 90 year olds going back to school and graduating.

So no, it isn't true. I don't believe so anyway.


That fire can light your ass at any age.

[EFerrari]

16. My mom made her fortune at 55. If she'd given up at 27

she'd be an out of work key punch operator. :)

[Robeson]

18. I'm interested. What's her story?...

...if you don't mind telling.

[EFerrari]

19. Mom moved to Silicon Valley when she was 30 to get away from an unhappy

love affair / short marriage. She had two kids, her own mother and was not an engineer like all the other homeowners in our subdivision. She got a real estate license and proceeded to invest and pursue an advanced degree in Alcohol. She ran into a lot of cr@p because she was a little brown woman with a thick accent. She'd go into the office and her desk would be tossed and so on. I guess booze was a way to take the edge off of all that tension. Anyway.

When she got sober, she was about 45. She went back to school, got some degrees in Social Work and, went back into real estate because there were no jobs in her field. This time, she went into commercial real estate -- her own company because no one wanted to hire her as she didn't fit the demo -- and she made a bundle because she can sell sand in the desert to thirsty people at high noon in midsummer.

I don't know how she became as independent as she was, had to be in order to do what she did. Maybe she just came that way. :)

/oops

[Robeson]

21. Thanks for that. I'm at the point she was in, but in reverse...

...started a business during the housing boom in which I rehabbed old homes and turned them, and now after Bush, have seen my business go down the drain. I'm 44 - soon to be 45 like your Mom was - so I'm glad to hear her story. It gives me some hope. Thanks for sharing.

[EFerrari]

23. I've worked with her for about half of my working years

doing everything from site locating to drafting contracts to replacing drywall. It's a puzzle as to where we go from here, for sure.

I'm about 7 years older than you are, Robeson. I've no idea how we're going to get through this. But, something will shape up. It always does. If we survived Reagan, we can do anything. :P

[JanMichael]

20. I was a fuck up until 28. Then I only barely registered as a "success".

I really didn't hit stride until 32 and now I'm 40 and finally getting things going.

So no. 27 doesn't mean shit.

EDIT: I don't count "successful" as "big money" or fame either.

[csziggy]

22. Grandma Moses was in her seventies before she started painting and became famous

[emmajane67]

24. Wow, I take offence to some of these replies.

I am 27 and what most people would consider a 'success'. And guess what, not one tiny weeny smidgey iota of that came from family connections or 'blowing' anyone.

Infact, I live 12,000miles from my family. Moved here with enough cash to get a houseshare and a backpack of clothes and that was it.

I'm 27 and I have travelled extensively around the world, I am a published writer, I have a degree(which I did as a 'mature entry' student as i was a little lost at 17 when I left home), I have an amazing job (which I was headhunted for) in the public sector and earn twice the national average wage, I've just about to start a masters programme part time, I've had one very long relationship, I've managed to find time to teach underprivileged kids and work in homeless shelters along the way as well as washing my share dishes, making coffee, photocopying and cleaning to pay the bills.

AND I have done it all completely off my own bat. It has been hard bloody work, determination, ridiculous dreams, taking risks oh and hard bloody work on my part.

That's not to say some people don't have connections to get them where they are or that you can work bloody hard and not end up being a 'success' in the commonly accepted sense of the word. But to be 27 and a success does not mean you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth or you get on your knees to get where you wanna be.

[Heidi]

25. Agree.

And it seems that almost every time I hear the meme about sex as a path to success, it's almost always a slur against successful women. :hi:

[billyskank]

26. What was Winston Churchill doing by the age of 27?

:shrug: