"WATCHMEN" is the best film I've seen in 10 years, by far. I laughed, I cried,

[Richard Steele]

...I saw a piece of MYSELF in every one of those
miserable fucktarded little superhuman freaks.

Heath Ledger's "Joker" PALES in comparison to RORSHACH,
and "The Dark Knight" was a confused pileup of 3 scripts
compared to the sleek self-contained universe of "Watchmen".

And I say that as someone who considers "Batman Begins"
as a great feat of cinematic & cultural genius.

[underpants]

1. ..it was the feel good hit of the summer. I'll see it again and again. It was better than 'Cats'

Haven't seen it

[Richard Steele]

9. It was the most DISTURBING piece of cinema I've ever seen.

It wans't about "Superheros" it was about PEOPLE.

People so TWISTED that they dress up in wierd costumes
and prowl dark alleys in the night looking to break bones.

This is -NOT- your father's "Caped Crusader Movie", fellow babies.

[DarkTirade]

10. It's not a superhero movie, its a deconstruction of the superhero genre.

I still haven't seen it though, nor have I gotten around to reading the comic. I just know the general gist of it.

[Richard Steele]

11. I t's a magnificent piece of work, and it deconstructs a lot more than just "Superheros"

It presents Superheros as PEOPLE,and it deconstructs
humanity as a whole.You really should see it.
EVERONE really should see it.

I honestly don't remember the last time a film
left me at such a loss for words.

[DarkTirade]

20. I actually just started reading the comic this morning.

I wanted to do that before I got around to seeing the movie. I just finished book 5, where *slight spoiler alert* Rorschach gets framed and caught for killing a retired villain.

[PittPoliSci]

25. seriously?

and i wouldn't exactly call this cinema, while we're at it...

[Richard Steele]

42. yes. Very seriously.

Speaking as someone who once kicked the hell
out of 5 armed punks in a dark alley, I thought
this film was an amazingly insightful dissection
of some of the darker points of human nature.

:shrug:

[PittPoliSci]

52. i'll give it that.

but i just don't think it was so-called "cinema." i think for me, it was only really "enjoyable." though, i did enjoy the fact that it was uncensored, and probably as close to the graphic novel as it could've been.

[Richard Steele]

54. All righty then. nm.

[tigereye]

59. hmm, I was wondering what you would say

G said he wouldn't go unless it was very much like the novel. And someone I really respect said it was amazing. So I'll probably bug him to take me.


Curious why you wouldn't call it cinema (and I know what kinds of films you like!) :rofl:

[PittPoliSci]

60. i usually reserve "cinema" for art house movies.

You know...stuff I really hate for having a very transparent message.

:)

[tigereye]

66. a lot of folks would say that cinema is simply the genre, but I can see why you

would say that. Are you saying you dislike art house-type films for their transparency, or "regular" films for the same reasons? :rofl: One could probably argue that only poor art-house films would have to work so hard to make their message(s) obvious.



All this is moot regarding The Watchmen, though, since I haven't seen it yet.

[PittPoliSci]

67. i'm just sick of feigning sophistication.

i love tearing down sacred cows, and i'm not ashamed of the fact that i love cartoons.

and fuck subtitles. :)

[tigereye]

68. well, just so you do your cinematic homework and know how great the

real cinematic classics are. A lot of those are the foundation on which most later films are built. Even people like Tarantino (and I really like Kill Bill, surprisingly, some of it is gorgeous) fill their films with a variety of homages. I fell in love with a film student and it's affected the way I look at film.

BTW I love films with subtitles. Most dubbing blows.


ps.
I have no issue with cartoons.

[soleft]

27. But son told me it's too violent for me to see

I may have to wait and watch it with him when it comes out on dvd.

[Richard Steele]

34. It's not just VIOLENT, it's REALISTICALLY violent at some points.

Not a movie for the squeamish, I tellyawhut.

If you think you might have problems with a compound fracture of the elbow,
or seeing a large strong man having his arms cut off with a power grinder,
this might not be the film for you.

And those were NOT the most disturbing scenes.
The graphic violence was just a taste of the EMOTIONALLY disturbing backstories
that explain why these people put on wierd costumes
and go out at night looking for fights.

[kentauros]

45. Not "squeamish", just sensitive to the harming of humanity

and as realistically as possible. I get enough of that from everyday violence, whether manmade or naturemade.

What I object to is the need for massive amounts of violence just to make a point or "make people think." And that's really a sad commentary on our society if people can't have deep thoughts without massive loss of life, imaginary or not.

So, that's why I'll never read the book or see the movie. There are better ways to make people think about these issues without the means taken in this story. What they are I leave to those with better imaginations than I :)

[Richard Steele]

47. I understand what you're saying.

I think you are one of the few people who would truly APPRECIATE this film.

But that means you are one of the people with the best reasons to never see it.

It's just that kind of movie.

Don't you go changin', my friend. :thumbsup:

[kentauros]

48. Thank you for understanding

:)

I know that I thought Mars Attacks was funny when it came out. Now I only laugh at the demise of the Martians, when I have watched that movie at all in recent years. The rest of it I cringe at because the death and destruction seems to be just for the sake of it, even if it is parody.

I should pull out my copy of 2001 and watch that again instead :D
It's too bad Rendezvous with Rama will never be made now...

[Richard Steele]

44. You really should.

It was better than CATS. You'll see it again and again.

We'll talk about it somtime.

[PittPoliSci]

2. most cliched soundtrack ever.

the soundtrack completely ruined the movie for me.

[WCGreen]

3. I thought it Genius to bring the brooding, very dark Hallelujah

out from Wainwrights giggling Shrek version...

Anyone who uses Leonard Cohen in a soundtrack is all right by me...

[rcrush]

4. The Bob Dylan intro

The 99 Luft Balloons! 99 LUFT BALLOONS! COME ON! YOU GOTTA LOVE THAT

[WCGreen]

5. 99 balloons came out then...

hey, at least the pop stars back then tried to make a political statement.

[rcrush]

6. I know so many people that complained about the soundtrack.

I thought it was great. I still cant get over the Bob Dylan intro.

[PittPoliSci]

24. i knew i wasn't going to like the rest of the movie from that point on.

nothing against dylan, but that was a weak way to start the movie. they spent all this money on this movie, and you're telling me they couldn't find someone to write an original song that could've conveyed the message? lame. i'm sick of hearing the same lousy pop songs in every movie.

[Richard Steele]

8. I'm sad on your behalf, because you didn't "get" the deliberate use of the CLICHE soundtrack.

Hendrix's "All Along the WatchTower" blaring in SURROUDSOUND
as a mile-high 'Dr.Manhattan' wades throught the VietCong like a GOD?

Both my Dads and half my Uncles did time in the 'nam;
I WEPT during that 20-second sequence.

[PittPoliSci]

21. sorry, zach snyder isn't smart enough to be ironic.

piece of shit movie.

[Richard Steele]

28. I'm sorry it didn't work for you.

I've seen films where the soundtrack was just moronically WRONG (red dragon),
and that really pisses me off...

I've also seen films where the sound editors
were deliberately making odd choices to achieve a certain "feel",
and I just didn't feel it...
that makes me sad.

I'm sorry you didn't feel it with "Watchmen", my friend.

I felt it, and it blew me away.

Richard

[PittPoliSci]

50. i'm glad you enjoyed it.

i was just disappointed, that's all.

[Orrex]

46. The use of All Along the Watchtower is from the original graphic novel

But it had nothing to do with Viet Nam in the book.

[Richard Steele]

49. But it worked WONDERFULLY as the most cliched Vietnam-War-movie soundtrack EVER...

..as a mile-high Dr. Manhattan strolled through the rice paddies
without let or hindrance..

That scene was almost as strange as real life.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

13. Ok Then...what would you suggest for the soundtrack?

:shrug:

[PittPoliSci]

23. how about an original score?

seriously, ride of the Valkyries?

[seemunkee]

26. It didn't ruin for me but I found it obtrusive.

I also didn't care for the way the fight scenes were done. That stop/fast action manner just didn't do it for me.
Dr. Manhattan was well done and I liked the Comedian. I wish they didn't have Rorschach do that growly voice, too much like the latest Batman.
Overall I really enjoyed it.

[PittPoliSci]

51. i thought manhattan and comedian were good.

i agree with you about rorschach and the action, also. but the soundtrack was a big let down for me.

[rcrush]

7. Now I know how all the girls in my high school felt when Titanic came out.

:rofl: :rofl:

[Richard Steele]

15. No, I really don't think that's quite it...

I went to prison for "Armed Robbery" at age 14,
and that's not even in the top 10
of my most interesting experiences...

I've been a lot of places, and seen a lot of things
in my 40 years on this planet. And the characters
in that movie are very REALISTIC, IMO.

I once wore my 2nd-best tuxedo to an affair where I was seated
directly in front of the President of the AMA.
He had to look over my shoulder to watch the speaker
who mentioned me by name in his speech.

And I once wore my BEST tuxedo to an affair where I witnessed
3 very unattractive men having sex with each other in a wheelchair.





I've been a lot of places, and seen a lot of things
since I first ventured forth from Polecat Hollow.
I've strolled into VIP parties uninvited,
and been called in to ID my sister's husband's corpse
lying all pale and blue-veined on a cold stainles slab in the morgue.

I've looked straight into the eyes of a man who had a pistol
pointed at my head; a man who was (understandaby) rather upset
over the fact that his wife had left him and made a 50-mile beeline
straight to my bedroom.

So, I really doubt that I feel the same way about ANYTHING
that "the girls in your High School" ever did. knowhutImean?

[Starry Messenger]

12. I totally loved it.

I saw it yesterday and I'm still so happy today I can barely stand myself. I loved the book and I think this treatment was damn near perfect. I'm definitely going back to see it again. The scene in Nam, as you say, was magnificent. I was in open-mouthed wonder.

edit out repetition.

[Richard Steele]

17. It was so great, I just had to tell someone about it...

Since I don't actually have any FRIENDS at the moment,
I called my mommy.

Long story short, Thursday is my day off at the Thrift Store
and I'm gonna be driving to centralPA and
taking my stepdad to see "Watchmen" in Altoona
Thursday evening.

It's a bit of a schlep, but totally worth it IMO.

[Starry Messenger]

18. I understand completely.

I was hoping someone would start a thread just like yours. Just watching the opening credits was a treat in itself. After you have seen it a few more times, I hope you will read the book, too. I'm glad you got to see it pure, though. I like to do that with films a lot. It's fun to see how you will perceive things one way or another, depending.

I'm amazed how much of the atmosphere they captured from the page. But that's all I'm going to say . :)

[Uzybone]

14. Have you read the book?

The only people who I have heard whine about the movie are the hard core fanboys who have read the book 10 times over. I love the novel, and I can't wait to go see it.

[Richard Steele]

16. Nope. Deliberately avoided it.

I haven't been "in" the Graphic Novel scene
since Miller put out "The Dark Knight Returns";
what was that, like 30 years ago?

When my friends started mentioning the huge BUZZ
around this film 2 years ago, I made it a point to
avoid all knowledge of it so I could walk into the theater
CLEAN, without bias.

[Dr Fate]

32. Cool. Now go read the comic- it is even better. n/t

n/t

[davsand]

19. Yep, Watchmen is what I'd call the "Anti-Superhero" sort of story.

Saw it Friday and I walked (stumbled, maybe is a better description) out of the theater when it was over. I was stone sober, but that movie left me completely staggered.

I loved the soundtrack--I completely do not understand how anybody can say it detracted from the movie. I'm wondering if these people didn't realize it was an historical piece? Did they not GET that this was targeted to the ones who came of age in that time and in that sort of anti-"groupthink" mentality? (The sheer presence of Leonard Cohen's music should be a huge clue...)

I love the moral ambiguity of it and I think THAT eludes a lot of people. There was a woman in the theater at the same showing we were at, and she was bitching on the way out about how "stupid" that movie was. I was aghast because she CLEARLY did not understand one BIT of what she had just seen.

I told my husband on the way to the car that this was one of the best movies I'd seen in a VERY long time and that its fans would be devoted while the detractors would be equally passionate. Looks like I called it right.

Kephra lent Kevsand both V for Vendetta and Watchmen in Summer of 2002. He loved both those novels. I'm sorry he never lived to see the movies because I think he would have loved them both.


Laura

[babythunder]

22. I couldn't agree more!

Before I saw the Dark Knight everyone was telling me how great this movie was and I am huge fan of Christopher Nolan and Christian Bale so I was super psyched. I also heard how great Heath Ledger was in the film however I came away feeling disappointed. I didn't find it bad but I just found it average and felt that it was overrated. But Watchmen totally blew me away the fact that Snyder was able to cover nearly 40 years of history and do it in way that the film remained cohesive was a triumphant in itself. Jackie Earle Haley as Rorschach hit out of the park; he gave a powerhouse performance and I found his portrayal better then Heath Ledger's Joker.

[Mike 03]

29. Okay, I'm intrigued. But this would not be the first anti-superhero film.

What puts it over the edge into this level of "masterpiece"?

I have heard that it's physically hard to watch, like "300", and simplistic, bombastic and pretentious.

But I do want to see the film. I can't wait until it comes to our theater here.

[Dr Fate]

31. The characters.

Each represents a different hang up- and many of the characters are personifications of different political views.

At the time it was written, very few writers presented a super hero's emotions and back grounds in such a way.

I think you will find the movie intriguing-but I'm biased- I've loved these characters and this story since it came out in 1985...

The OP has never read the book- and while the comic was better than the movie-I tend to agree with his comments.

[Richard Steele]

37. No. it's not the first. Tim Burton's Keaton/Nicholson "Batman" broke some anti-Super ground, IMHO.

But that theme was lost on the box office, and that series
quickly degenerated into a pathetic & cartoonish pile of shiny nonsensical
star cameos.

See the film. Do whatever it takes to see it on the big screen.

What you have heard is IRRELEVANT; what you WILL SEE
is what you and I will discuss at length.

[Tektonik]

30. not what i've heard about the movie, but whatever floats ur boat man

I know plenty of people who went and saw it and loved it, but no one ranks it higher than the Dark Knight.

No one I know is going to go see it again, whereas these same friends saw the Dark Knight two or three times each.

[Dr Fate]

33. I'm only one other guy- but I think it was certainly better than Dark Knight.

Better story and more thought provoking.

Dark Knight was more like a God-zilla movie than a Bat Man story. I've never seen so many explosions and car crashes in my life.

Besides Joker blowing shit up and the Two-face side plot, there was really no story.

[LanternWaste]

61. I'm another other guy...

I'm another other guy...

Best comic book move I've ever seen, and I've been disappointed by too many.


I'm still having problems wrapping my brain around the bad-ass from the Bad News Bears playing one of the most amoral characters I've come across in contemporary fiction. When I first heard it was Hailey, I was so damnably disappointed. But after having seen the film, I came away with a sense of wonder for what he and the director did with the role. I hope this is a comeback vehicle for him... :)

Heath Ledger merely re-defined a role. Hailey defined one.

[Duer 157099]

35. I'm *still* trying to read the book! So far, only thru chapter 4!

I don't know what my problem is.

I even watched the 2nd episode of some version on cable over the weekend - it was an animation of the book. I thought it might help jumpstart, and in a way, it sort of did because it gave some context to how it should be read, with all the jumping back and forth in time (think of the chapter with Jon on Mars)

I'm trying, and I'm resolved to finish reading before seeing the film, which I want to see next weekend...

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

65. You ARE readin the appendices, aren't you? They're essential. -nt

[MedleyMisty]

36. I liked Dark Knight better

I think I saw it eight times in the theater, but I'm not going to see Watchmen again.

Watchmen was too violent for me - I had my eyes closed against my husband's shoulder a lot more often than I did with Dark Knight.

Plus, I don't know - Rorschach is way more human than the Dark Knight's Joker. Ledger's Joker was a personification of the Trickster archetype. I really dug the symbolism and metaphor that I saw in him and in the story of Harvey.

I liked Watchmen. It was quite faithful to the graphic novel. But I had the same reaction to it as I did to the novel - decent, but not something that really meant a lot to me. I couldn't identify with or sympathize with any of the characters, whereas I could see my shadow in the Joker.

They were both very good and high quality movies and I hope they help break open that "comic book movie" box that people have in their minds, but Dark Knight is my favorite.

[Richard Steele]

39. Although I don't quite share your opinion, I really RESPECT the way you view things.

QUOTE:"Rorschach is way more human than the Dark Knight's Joker"

Yes, he really is, isn't he? That's a very intelligent observation.

I LOVED Ledger's "Joker"- that was one seriously disturbed individual right there.
And the Joker...it's for smarter folks than me to figure out what his problem was.


But Rorschach...WOW.
We all know how he got messed up in the head,
and we all can understand it.
Seems like his only "super power" is the fact that he's super-angry
at this entire world and everyone in it, every moment of the fricking day.

Who among us can't identify with that?

He's a very HUMAN little dude.

[Duer 157099]

38. Jon Stewart had Dr. Manhattan on the other night

all I remember was him saying that he was swinging some blue pipe.

:shrug:

[Richard Steele]

40. Yeah, Dr. Manhattan is about 6'4" and 250lbs...he's not swinging the BIGGEST pipe I've ever seen...

...but it's certainly the BLUEst!

What can I say but "Go DUKE!"

[davsand]

41. That blue pipe held up even in the COLDEST places.

No shrinkage. I actually commented on that during the movie.


:shrug:


Laura

[Richard Steele]

43. Yeah, from the Secret-Lab cafeteria, all the way to the -200 degrees on the surface of Mars...

...there was no shrinkage.

As an average MAN, that was one of the things that
really made me realize Dr. Manhattan just wasn't HUMAN anymore.

[coyotespaw]

53. It's not just coincidence that Rorshach is named the way he is...

Ultimately, how you react to that character says quite a bit about you. I had a lot of sympathy for Walter Kovacs, but a lot less for Rorshach. The fact that one witnesses atrocity doesn't give one excuse to commit atrocities. The only thing I respect Rorshach for is his reaction to what happens at the end of the story/movie (he says, doing his best to avoid spoiling either.) Everyone is a product of what happened as we were children. If, as adults, we fail to grow beyond that; the failing is our own

[Richard Steele]

55. That's a great summation of Rorschach.

I guess that says a lot about you. He'd like that.

[PVnRT]

56. His reaction at the end of the graphic novel is why I respect him

Violent and fucked-up though he may be, (spoiler, highlight text) he would rather die than allow Ozymandias to get away with what he did. The other characters rationalized away the deaths of a million innocents, "good" as they were.

[LanternWaste]

57. I enjoyed it. Will prolly see it again in theaters, then....

I enjoyed it. Will prolly see it again in theaters, then purchase the DVD when it's released.

Granted, in comparison to the comic book, it leaves a bit to be desired, but all in all, I thought that as a movie, it both stood well on its own and was very good.

[TK421]

58. I would strongly suggest reading the novel before seeing the movie

just to understand the back story that was left out of the movie itself. I just finished watching the graphic novel Watchmen DVD...basically, the novel but slightly animated. It was over 5 hours long. There is so much people haven't seen in the movie that is explained in the novel I feel those who were not familiar with Watchmen have missed out on a great deal of info. I loved the movie, BTW and I will be seeing it again! :thumbsup:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

62. Rorschach is without a shadow of a doubt the most fucked-up fictional person ever created.

Alan Moore is GOD.

I haven't yet seen the movie. Will do.

[Richard Steele]

64. And yet, I've met more than a few folks JUST LIKE HIM in real life.

Perhaps that's why I loved this film so much.

[WildEyedLiberal]

63. RE: The soundtrack? Most of those songs are referenced in the book

That's what annoys me about people bitching about the soundtrack - Dylan, Hendrix, and Leonard Cohen are all quoted/referenced in the novel. So their inclusion in the movie is not only natural, but expected.

I thought it was a wonderful film, too. You should definitely read the book next.