what would you do?

[northernlights]

I facing a big decision. Sometimes I lean one way. Sometimes the other. I'm curious about other people's take.

After 5 or 6 failed attempts to restart my life after my career crashed in '02, or even get a crappy but survivable job, I was ready to turn to my "fall back, fall back, fall back, fall back plan Z" of sell my dream-turned-nightmare minifarm, downsize my location, quit trying to start over and just enjoy til I run out of money, then downsize again to free up some cash, etc. Until my animals family was downsized by attrition, and then I could check out. It's not like anyone would care, including me.

Then I got a university catalog and saw a healthcare program that looked promising. I had just enough savings left to squeeze through with about $20K in stafford and private loans. Based on the anticipated salary at the backend, that was as much as it made sense to borrow based on my calculations and recently confirmed by a financial advisor.

However, due to 'misinformation' (read string of lies) by the local university "advisor" (sales person in disguise with the goal of forcing me into a 4 year program instead of the 2 I planned for) I learned this past January, halfway through the program, that it will take a year longer for the associates degree than I planned for. The 4 year degree doesn't increase my salary enough to make it worthwhile at my age. 2 years less working, no degree until I'm 58 or so, tens of thousands more in loans to pay off, etc.

So I was lured into the trap and now face crappy options:

1. take on major loans and be an indentured servant to Chase until I'm about 80 or die, whichever comes first, which I really don't want to do. The indentured servant part, that is. Fuck Chase.

2. Sell my mini-farm, use the money to pay for school and start over with nothing at about age 58 and hating, hating, hating to rent. The only thing that has made my life worth living is having my own place with my medicinal herb labyrinth garden. Also I have many animals that are my family, given that my biological family are psychotic rethug freeper types, or alcoholic or dead or the sister that hates me.

3. Or give the fuck up already, throw away the 18 months investment in maintaining a 4.0 in pre-med sciences, return to plan Z and sell my minifarm and pray I can still get enough for it to downsize to something not in Maine, move and still have some cash left over to live a little while longer. There's a crappy little shack on 5 acres in a place with a moderate climate that I might be able to pick up.

Is there an option I haven't thought of? It's really hard to think clearly when you're filled with rage against lying "advisors." Which I am whenever I haven't had a glass of sherry. After which, I still can't think clearly...:think:

[Mike 03]

1. This sounds complicated and may take some time to sort out, so we can find the

right answer.

Could you be a victim of fraud?

If that is the case, you may be entitled to reimbursement, with funds that would allow you to continue to pursue your passion in the future with a better, more reputable school. (?)

[northernlights]

9. I'm a victim of lying by omission

first, about a math placement test that I took prior to statistics, that I wasn't told (and it's not anywhere in writing) would supercede my prior grades. The test was supposed to be for Algebra 2 placement (which I had aced 40 years ago in h.s.). Half of it turned out to be trig, which I had never taken so naturally failed.

I didn't mind repeating algebra 2, since it had been 40 years and needed bringing to the forefront. But *I didn't find out that the test results would supercede my grades until I was turned down for the MLT program.* Had the advisor, at the time of recommending I take the test, advised me that the results would supercede my grades, I would have registered for algebra last spring instead of statistics, and been eligible for MLT last fall.

second, having been rejected for the program last fall, I still thought I could get through in my projected time frame by just continuing to take 2 classes per semester through to the end. The advisor *knew* I believed this because on several occasions as we sat together, I went down the list of requirements and said I can just keep taking 2 classes at a time. She zipped her lip and neglected to inform me that the clinical sciences start in Sept. and go in a specific order that takes 2 years, period, no exceptions. A "sample curriculum" used to be online, but was removed at some point -- so I had nothing to refer to that reminded me of that, nor did I realize at the time I saw it, that the "sample" part referred only to the non-clinical courses.

The advisor did say on several occasions that the program director can do anything she wants, including enlarging classes to add an extra person in.

But it's all "she said; she said." I won't be able to prove any of it, and as a professional sales liar she's also a professional sales denier.

[mainegreen]

2. I'd get the degree, abnd move to an area with higher salaries for the degree.

[northernlights]

10. where the salaries are higher

so is the cost of living. So the net result is the same. I still end up either selling my place to pay the loans and then having to rent for the rest of my life or having to take out a mortgage again.

I went through *hell* living in 3 tiny rooms for 17 years with zero privacy, and suffering through enormous "corporate abuse," in order to afford to buy outright. Until I took out the first $10K of what was to be $20K in loans, I was debt free.

I really and truly have no interest in running that gauntlet again.

[NoSheep]

3. I would not take on the loans. You said you hate to rent. Having loans is renting life.

I'd consider my other interests, make a plan that involves pursuing them without needing a lot of money to live, meet people you have something in common with and sell (or what about RENT ) the farm and start making it happen. Be as free of debt as you can as you get older. Your choices will be easier to make if you aren't forced to work to pay for something that only forces you to work. What if that work doesn't make you happy? You'll be in the hole for it. The older I get the more I am re-thinking "security". To me, it means no debt and a willingness to explore possibilities to make a living.

Is there any way to make the farm make money for you while you pursue something else that doesn't involve loans?
How much money per year do you need to make? I may have an idea.

[northernlights]

11. that's what half of me wants to do

that's what I came here to try to do, and have failed at.

I'm not sure how much per year I need to make. I do have to sell this place. If I rent it out, then I'm "owned" by my tenants. If they don't pay, I'm screwed. And in these parts...there's a good chance they won't pay. Especially since unemployment is only going up. Oh, and I just remembered the airbase about an hour south of here is closing down so many *extra* houses will be coming available...please someone just shoot me.

Part of how much I need to make will depend on where I land. I need to make extra up here just to keep from freezing to death in the winter. Which just reminded me of how I lost an extra $1K when I very cleverly joined an oil co-op and locked in at $3.75/gal last summer. Seemed like a great idea at the time...

[Gormy Cuss]

4. Start by getting your ducks in a row and raise holy hell at the university.

Associates programs are supposed to be two years long, and when they're not there is usually ample warning up front. Try to make that extra year THEIR problem and ask them how they can work to reduce the time -- life experience credits or letting you test out of some coursework, for example. Other possibilities would be letting you get OJT credit for working in the field starting next semester, or letting you complete courses via distance learning thus freeing up some time to make money at a job. It's worth a shot before giving up since you've been a good student.

If you need to give up on the program, look for a way to leverage your investment to date into certification for some other health related program offered at one of the community college campuses. As you know, their tuition is much lower and it may be worth it if you can complete a program part time while working (don't know how close you are to a CC campus so this may not be feasible.)

It sounds like taking out more major loans is not a good option, so if you can't figure out a way to get a marketable skill out this education without going too far in hock it probably is time to reassess where you live. Don't pay off the loans until you know what your other options are. Even with the downturn there are places where the earnings from sale of a small farm in Maine will get you enough $$$ to relocate. Can't guarantee it would be in a warmer clime though.

[northernlights]

12. I entered through a cc

branch of the state university. The cc branch was where the sales "advisor" suckered me in. The university advisors are honest.

My remaining courses are all clinical sciences and the lab clinicals. There is no testing out, no life experience, nothing.
Actually, one of the annoying things is that they refused to waive me for the "oral communications" requirement, despite the fact that I have 20 years experience in marketing communications -- I could flipping teach those courses. :eyes: My chemistry prof (who is also a dept. head) was stunned that they didn't waive, given my background. She said I must have spoken to the "wrong person." But coming in from the outside, how the heck do you know who the "right person" is?

The program is supposedly 2 years going flat out. But I don't know *anyone* who is attempting that, since as I recall from the sample curriculum it requires taking 2 science courses plus a couple other courses in the fall and spring semesters. The science courses are very intense, since the lab is the equivalent of an extra course in class and study time.

Most people go part time and work part time, and that was my plan. I haven't been able to find part time work and gave up even trying.

Then it dawned on me that I could sell a few things: my garden tractor and york rake were the equivalent of working 6 months at minimum wage. So was going to squeak through the upcoming year the same way: I still have a nice quality guitar, my never used snow blower and some gold jewelry that I was going to sell to help get through this year.

[Gormy Cuss]

19. Ah, so they have you over a barrel.

It might still be worth raising Cain if you have faculty who would support you. It's amazing how much extra effort can be mustered for a top student in a financial crunch. It sounds like you're under the U Maine system now, which is probably a better place to make the case than in the relatively new CC system (I still think of them as the _MVTI schools, LOL.)

I hope that something works out.

[Blandocyte]

5. Option 3

get your new place and finish a degree there.

[northernlights]

13. The place where I found the shack on 5 acres

is near a similar cc program, which would have used all my existing courses (except the stupid oral communications waste of my time and money). I've already talked to the advisor there -- that program is through the cc college in the big city at the opposite end of that state. So he sent me to the director of that cc college, who agreed to put possibly put me on the waiting list for their program...but also strongly advised not moving to the part of the state I want to move to, lol. So I have applied to the program and will be sending the program director an email this week just to keep in contact.

The biggest hitch to that option is doing the lab clinicals. But that is totally out of my control. So I may end up doing that -- move to the shack and just wait and see if I get in. The clinical courses are online, so hopefully for the few months of hospital work, I could simply close my shack and rent until those months, and then find work near the shack and return home...

[Kali]

6. I am overly emotionally tied to the land. I would have a very hard time giving that up.

What kind of animals are you talking about?

[northernlights]

14. I can give up this land

for more land somewhere else. This was supposed to be 5 acres, but ended up being only 2 1/2 (or, to put it another way, it's 5 "Maine acres.") So along with a *lot* of other people, I learned last year that I'd been screwed on that point. By then, the sellers were dead, the realtor gone and good luck suing city hall.

My animals are:

* my 25 year old arab gelding that I rescued from starvation 20+ years ago. I promised him a home for life and I'm still working at keeping that promise. (But he never told me he planned to live forever.)
* A 4 year old arab mare that I bought when things were looking up and my gelding's companion goat was getting close to her end.
*the elderly shelter cat I brought home when 2 sets of neighbors moved out and their newly homeless mice and rats overran my place
*7 exotic birds that I rescued over the years when I lived in the condo, since I couldn't get the dog I always dreamed of.5-6 of them will be gone in 5 years or so.
*the shelter puppy I brought home 4 years ago for some protection, and who grew up to be the dog of my dreams.
*the pound puppy who was a couple days from the GA gas chambers over the holidays, and who I rescued before I ran into this latest snafu.

[ohheckyeah]

7. Will the credits you already

have transfer to another college where you can complete a 2 year degree?

What about a roommate? Or do you have enough land you can rent out part of it for someone to keep livestock? Or plots of land for small gardens?

My sister and her husband rented out part of their property to a neighbor who wanted cows but didn't have enough property.

[northernlights]

15. I've been looking into other programs

around the country in areas I wouldn't mind moving to ever since this land mine blew up back in mid-January.

Here is another scary thing that speaks to the economy. Going through the website of certified programs, several of the programs appear to have disappeared just in the last couple months. As in, many MLT pages that I reviewed back in February were dead links as of last week. :o

That fear just came up for discussion in my chemistry lab on Tuesday. There was an email sent around with a cryptic message for the upcoming MLT prospects and we all know that the university was told to give back $8M of this year's money -- not next year's; this years that's already committed and spent! Some programs are going to be eliminated entirely, the decision is being made *right* now, and that decision will be largely based on enrollment. And the MLT program is very small, with only 15 slots per year.

So Tuesday prof assured us that the new university president is committed to keeping all the core sciences and health care programs, and that MLT won't be effected. Then Wednesday in lecture, she gave us a big sales pitch about how MLT students should consider getting 4 year bio degrees instead or on top of, because they'll have much better job and salary options in the future. (If I were 25 instead of 55, that would make sense.)

So maybe she heard something. Or maybe the pitch is really aimed at the students that don't get selected for next year's MLT. Or maybe it's just a general sales pitch to try to increase course enrollment in her dept. (she's bio dept. head).

Anyway, I don't have land to rent out plus my neighbors who have cows also have many hundreds of acres. (Although that didn't stop 2 of their cows plus their bull from hanging out in my pasture a few years ago, lol.) Roomates are not an option, for many reasons, mostly pragmatic.

[ohheckyeah]

20. I understand

and I wish you prosperity in whatever you decide to do.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

8. A variation of option 3. --

I have just gone through a very similar situation. If you want to compare notes, PM me. My experience might be of some benefit to you.

[jeff30997]

16. And I thought my life was complicated !

My dear northernlights I can't help you much but in this thread I've read

very cleaver advices but we really don't have all the data to try to help.

(OK maybe you posted more details in another thread,I don't know).

What are you studying exactly ? What is your goal ?

I really hope I could do something,It's always great when I manage

to help someone,anyone in need not necessarily someone I know ...

I really don't know what to add except the usual clichés.

-Jeff

[northernlights]

17. the program is medical lab technology

My goal was to get through the program in 3 years, sell my minifarm near the end to 1. pay off the loans, 2. have enough cash left to start over free and clear (or close to it) 3. move to wherever I found a job (preferably with less brutal winters.

There is a worldwide shortage of lab techs, similar to the shortage of nurses. So employment, even for an ugly, mid-50s single woman who had been out of work much of the last 6 years, was a virtual guarantee.

If I could find work *this year* I could still do it. But unemployment is getting worse, not better. So far, every ray of hope has been struck down. For example, last fall the MLT program director sent an email to the freshman MLTs re: an opening for a lab asst at Maine General. A couple of those students graciously let me know about it for next year, and of course I jumped at the possibility. It turns out that every year in years past they would try to hire at least one, possibly a few, freshman MLT's as lab assistants.

I was added to the list of interested students...but also advised that the job program is in jeopardy due to possible hospital staff cuts. I even suggested to my chem professor that maybe with the stimulus package aimed at supporting hospital staff the program will be continued. She just looked sad and shook her head.

Also in the past, local hospitals would train people to be phlebotomists, due to the chronic shortage. This year the local hospital has cut all overtime, per diem, and transferred its MLT staff to a contract agency!

I sort of laugh at the people who think universal health care is the solution. Who the heck do they think is going to deliver it? With 46m uninsured there are staff shortages. Training programs were already limited, and now many appear to be disappearing...

[jeff30997]

18. Ouch !

You seem to be in a Catch 22 situation.

Over here there's a shortage of any medical personnel that you can think of too.

Doctors,surgeons,nurses,technicians etc.

We have Universal Health-care but a majority of students (some of whom had their education subsided

by the Government) are going south,in the U.S, because of higher incomes.

We live in a strange world.The big problem is bureaucracy with their illogical logic. :)


"an ugly, mid-50s single woman" ? Why do you say that ? Most peoples that I know call me

a pessimist but I like to see myself as a realist and I'm rarely wrong when I open my mouth

to announce something that nobody wants to hear.Lol.Back in 2000 there were a couple of

idiots who thought that Chimpy would be a great Murkan President.My father and I knew better.

Lol,when I think about it lets say that it was a bit silly because as Canadians we couldn't

vote in the U.S Election but Dad and I were like some kind of missionaries telling peoples that

if B* was "elected" there would be blood.I was totally surprised by 9-11 but not at all when

the war began.All this to show you that I'm not a pessimist but a realist.


I never saw a picture of you northernlights and I don't need to.But what I can say is that you're

NOT an ugly, mid-50s single woman (whatever that means) however you have a low self esteem.

You need to find something that will motivate you.Go for it !

That's all the help I can provide.But listen to the other DUers.Some of them can help you

with their advises and give you new ideas and/or another angle to solve your problems.


Take care northernlights,you're not alone.

-Jeff

[northernlights]

21. I first want to thank (and hug) *everybody*

for your very valuable feedback. :grouphug:

Mike03, when I read the title of your post -- "so WE can find a solution" -- I started to cry. I realized my biggest fear in seeking help is that everybody out there is running their own agenda. So I've felt so alone in trying to sort through all this.

I'm so grateful to have a place where the only agenda is the good feeling of helping someone else sort something out.

As you can see, the situation is pretty complex. It's really helped me to write all this out and respond to you, I think because while I was working through it I couldn't keep everything on the "front burner" at once. So as I've focussed on one issue, I've forgotten others.

Someone mentioned something about "my passion" and I realized in my search for a financial solution, I've totally lost what that was. To be honest, I don't have a passion for western medical healthcare. This started out as a totally pragmatic way to get me back into employment and my life back on track.

But along the way, I stumbled onto something that did arouse my passion. I'd only forgotten about it. Twice in the last year I've seen interviews with people who were convicted and imprisoned for crimes they didn't commit, and had just been freed due to new dna evidence. The woman, in particular, who'd been jailed for 12 years for killing her beloved daughter, while the killer remained free to kill again (and he did), and while her son's life was damaged by abuse in the foster care system until his grandparents were able to regain custody, broke me up. I know how it is to be accused of things you didn't do and had your character assassinated by it.


Seeing how those people's lives had been damaged, and being able to help to free them is something I could be passionate about, and something I could do until I dropped.

And then I remembered that the main reason I was even considering the 4-year degree was because that would be required to work in dna lab tech.

I don't know if I'll get into the MLT program or not -- I *finally* got an email that was sent over a week ago. There are 30+ applicants for only 15 slots. But it's less of a deal today than it was yesterday, because with a 4 year degree I could work in dna tech, so I'm no longer ruling that out.