Is Psychiatry Nonsense or is there Something to It?

[qwertyMike]

Poll question: Is Psychiatry Nonsense or is there Something to It?

[TZ]

1. It's a legitimate science

And has saved countless lives. Once again the ugly head of prejudice and misunderstanding of mental health rears it's ugly head.

[LeftyFingerPop]

2. It saved my life...

:hi:

[Symarip]

3. That makes one of us

It's too late for me.

[LeftyFingerPop]

4. Are you alright?

[Symarip]

6. I think I'm fine

Other people, like TZ, seem to have a problem with me. She's just jealous of my creative photoshop skills.

[LeftyFingerPop]

8. Oooh, ok...I'll stay out of this...

just wanted to make sure you were ok. :)

[Eyerish]

13. You might need to see someone about that narwhal obsession of yours...

:P

[DarkTirade]

16. That, and of course there is the occasional crap doctor who gives the whole profession a bad name.

But that'll happen with any profession.

[laconicsax]

88. Psychaitry is based on Tarot!

:sarcasm:

[SPKrazy]

5. they do some good

but some good research on success shows about the same rate of recovery for depression and anxiety with meds as psychotherapy does. However if you put the two together you get a much better result.

We need better meds for schizophrenia, although they have gotten much better

we need better treatments for just about every mental disorder.


And the laughable thing to me is the fact that no psychotherapy method is proven out to be better than another, and still the most important part of psychotherapy as reported is the relationship developed between therapist and client.

so mangled care and all their care plans and cookie cutter therapy are really wasting people's time and money when people do much better when they are allowed to see a therapist and not be managed by a 3rd party who has never seen the patient.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

7. Word, my dear SPKrazy!

[Eyerish]

11. Well said!

:thumbsup:

[backtoblue]

64. Agreed

And the sad truth is that mental health facilities across the country are dwindling, sending many schizophrenic and mentally challenged people to prisons.

[DFW]

9. Like all doctors, I think they can help those who want to be helped.

Although here in Germany, there is standard joke about the three kinds of doctors:

1.) The surgeon, who does everything and knows nothing
2.) The psychiatrist, who knows everything and does nothing, and
3.) The forensic specialist, who knows everything, and could have done something,
except that it's an hour too late.

[Eyerish]

10. It can change lives if the therapist really cares about their patients...

There a lot of people out there doing it for their own personal gain and it sullies the reputation of the profession. My father practiced for over 30 year and helped many individuals. He inspired me to study the profession myself.

[fizzgig]

12. i really think it saved my life

but there are a lot of variables in that equation, so ymmv

[Dangerously Amused]

14. Like people in every profession, there are good head docs, bad head docs,

...and everything in between.

The right one can absolutely be a miracle worker, and a life saver.

The wrong one can start/enable a Rx drug addiction and can mess you up even worse than when you first walked in the door.

And the right one for someone else may be the wrong one for you.

Just my opinion based on direct observation and professional interaction.

Cheers!

[mnhtnbb]

15. As the wife of a psychiatrist/psychoanalyst in practice for almost 35 years

(and we've been married 24), it is not nonsense. People who are willing to put in the time
with a therapist that "connects" with them can find it immensely helpful. Be careful
of any psychiatrist who wants to only prescribe medication and either doesn't engage
in talk therapy or is not willing to send you to someone else who does.

Hubby's practice has covered all areas: he was in the Air Force during Vietnam; worked
at VA Hospitals in CA and NE; has had private practice patients who were artists, physicians,
Ph.D's; has been working part time for the last several years in county funded mental health clinics
in NC serving patients without insurance and having no where to turn for mental health care.
He's seen it all.

It is not nonsense.

[MajorChode]

23. You could say the same for witch doctors, shamans, etc.

which also require "faith" in order to be effective. I'm not dismissing the benefit of those who do, because clearly there are benefits and I can't think of any other area (besides religion) that offers a greater benefit for those who believe in it.

But for someone who doesn't believe, it might be considered nonsense because the benefits are either little or non-existent.

[TZ]

31. Psychiatrists are MD's.

You know that right? It's a SCIENCE unless you are one of those fools who think western medicine is shamanism

[MajorChode]

49. It's not a "SCIENCE"

It's a practice which may or may not be based on science. And that has very little to do with what I wrote which you either didn't understand, or you're one of those fools who doesn't read anything past the subject line.

[Critters2]

52. Exactly. Freud and Jung's work was based entirely on

anecdotal "evidence", not on any hard science. Every bit as proveable as chiropractic. Actually, less so.

[closeupready]

73. Yup.

n/t

[tigereye]

74. Actually that's not true - Jung was one of the first to do actual experiments

in the field and without him and Freud there would not have been any psychotherapy.

However, I do agree with you that psychoanalysis on the whole is not the best way to treat the majority of serious mental health problems unless the practitioner also uses standard methods such as CBT, etc. CBT and medications are generally the proven way to treat most mental health problems. If it's any consolation, psychoanalysis is the not the way most practitioners are trained now. (unless you are in NYC or Argentina) ;)

[TZ]

118. So MD's aren't scientists

Got it. Can I get you some beads and rattles for you Tom Cruise?I know pray to Xenu and you will be okay

[MajorChode]

120. He can be taught after all!

And all this time I thought otherwise.

Some MD's might be scientists, but simply being an MD does not make you one. The vast majority aren't. They simply put into practice what has already been learned. A scientist is someone who uses a scientific method in order to learn and document new knowledge. This is really not that hard of a concept to grasp, I promise. You just need to work on it a bit more. Get an adult to help if you need it.

Got it now? Or do you need me to use big bird words?

Geez, the childish lengths some people will go to in order to cover up their mistatements never ceases to amaze me. You should have quit while you were behind. Now you've managed to make a COMPLETE ass of yourself. Congratulations.

[Critters2]

27. Ah, there's the Freudian party line...

"people who are willing to put in the time". Remember, it takes years and years, most effectively 2 to 3 sessions a week at $130-$150 a session. And if the person comes to their senses and fires such a fraud, it's THEIR fault for not being willing to "put in the time".

So telling. Fraud, plain and simple.

[TZ]

32. Ah so All docs are frauds then

Because pschiatrists are MD trained like any other doctor. Your scientific ignorance is showing. Is the world flat because some people believe it is. I am constantly amazed by the lack of logic here...it's a fraud cause I BELIEVE it's so. Sorry critters but your statement is incredibly ignorant

[mnhtnbb]

38. Thank you. I typed and deleted several stronger statements in my post # 37

[mnhtnbb]

37. It has nothing to do with Freud. Changing one's life, developing different

patterns of behavior, dealing with challenges of emotional devastation, overcoming insecurities--the seeds of which may have been planted during years of persistent neglect or abusive treatment (and yes, lots of that guilt inducing treatment comes at the hands of religious "authorities")takes time.

Just as in any field, there are good shrinks, not so good shrinks, and shrinks who ought to try something else for a living. There is also evidence that confirms having a "connection" to a therapist makes
a difference in treatment. It's definitely worth interviewing several therapists if someone is
considering investing the time to change their life. Not all therapy is long term, either.

Are there unethical shrinks? Undoubtedly. Is every one unethical? No.

My husband is not a fraud and I find your post insulting.

[Heidi]

41. Ya know, that was unnecessarily rude.

There are all sorts of things in this world that demand similar commitments of time, money and faith but deliver far fewer good results than psychiatric treatment.-

[Critters2]

62. Right. When I get all my fraudulently taken money back,

I'll be less rude. A thief got rich by taking my money. And all can do in return is be rude.

[TZ]

116. Fine

My uncle who would be DEAD without his psychiatrist says BUGGER OFF you fool. Stick to religion critters you are clearly an example of religion and science not mixing

[Forkboy]

121. Ah, I see now. You got screwed by ONE so they all suck.

Bitter much? :crazy:

[no name no slogan]

67. not all psychiatry is psychoanalysis (in fact, most is NOT)

and these kind of bullshit threads only cloud the waters, unfortunately.

Most psychiatry these days is involved with the biochemical causes of mental illness, and not Freudian psychoanalysis. Psychiatrists have medical degrees, and spend as much time practicing applied chemistry as they do counseling.

Unfortunately, many people seem to be stuck in the 1950s and think that psychiatry involves lying on a couch, relating stories about ones sexual attraction to ones mother to a psychoanalyst who may or may not be getting his jollies from hearing such stories.

Psychiatry, in its modern form, is still very primitive. It has only existed for half a century, and is nowhere near as advanced as other medical fields. Even though we've had ideas of the chemistry of the brain since ancient times (melancholia, anyone?) we've never been able to figure out how that chemistry works. We're getting closer, but we're still a long way off.

[old mark]

17. used to work in a psych hospital - like to think some of it was worthwhile.

:crazy:

mark

[qwertyMike]

18. It was

Hardest job in the universe.

Congrats.

Mike

[old mark]

22. Mike, I don't understand it, but I got along better with the patients

than I did with the staff....


then I wind up here....



mark

[mitchum]

19. How do you feel about it?

[TK421]

20. My psychiatrist told me I have multiple personality disorder..I told him " You got the wrong guy"!

[Lethe]

24. How many psychiatrists does it take to unscrew a light bulb?

only one, but it's gonna take a long time and the light bulb has to want to change.

[Juche]

21. It can work very well

I have had great luck with EMDR to deal with traumas I could not bring myself to face and I've had good experiences with talk therapy.

So yeah, there is definately something to it if you are willing to do your part and work with the therapist to work through your problems.

[RandomThoughts]

25. What do you think about it...

;)

[Critters2]

26. Most of it is nonsense.

Cognitive behavioral, rational emotive, or dialectical behavioral are all demonstrated to be effective in improving people's lives. But the Freudian and neo-Freudian types are frauds. No one ever lived a better life by trying to figure out if they really loved their mother. That type of "therapist" is just a glorified phone psychic, whose purpose is to string the client and his/her insurance company along for as long as the benefits can be milked.

I tried to sue my neo-Freudian "therapist", but by the time a CBT had helped me get up the courage to do so, the statute of limitations had run out--though the judge said I had a good case, and he hoped someone else would sue the bastard within the statute. I did file a complaint with the department of professional regulation, with the help of my CBT. The Freudian fraud was disciplined, but not much. He's still teaching at the University of Illinois...turning out more Fraudians.

If a therapist hasn't had an effect on one's symptoms within 3 months, s/he should be fired. It's treatment, not a hobby. I only make referrals to CBTs or dialectical behavioral therapists. I would no more refer to a psychoanalyst than I would make a referral to the aforementioned phone psychic.

[TZ]

33. I suggest you go to med school for four years

And years of residency before you pronounce youself an expert--you are mixing up psychiatry and psychology . Totally different it's like mixing up zoology and botay...:eyes:

[Critters2]

54. Four years of medical school makes you a physician,

perfectly skilled to work at physiology. It doesn't qualify you to muck around in people's psyches. All the "MD" behind people's name does is allow them to charge more money than a psychologist.

[Heidi]

56. What qualifies YOU to muck around with people's psyches?

That's what you're doing by bringing your personal biases into the lives of people who see you as an authority figure.

[Critters2]

59. I don't. I know my limitations, and refer people to other counselors

quickly. Some clergy don't, but I refer right away when it's clear that someone wants help with something that is deeper than an ethical issue (which is my area of expertise). I am not qualified to muck around in people's psyches, and so I don't. I refer them, to people who will work to improve their lives quickly and effectively. I will not refer them to people who will keep them in expensive but questionable therapy for long periods of time. To do so would be unethical on my part. If the CBTs, DBTs, or CCTs to whom I refer want to refer them on to someone else, they are free to do so.

It is interesting to watch people get so defensive. Something to do with your mother, I would guess.

[Heidi]

61. Your intentionally mean-spirited personal attack regarding my mother should

give you pause to consider how your anger and personal bias might be reflected back to you by your parisioners. I truly am sorry that you have been hurt, but I don't see how you can rationally justify hurting me, who you don't even know. I worry for those who look to you for guidance -- and I mean this with my whole heart. Something is just not right here

[Critters2]

70. Umm, that was a joke. A mild dig at the assumptions of

the profession you're defending.

I have enough respect for my parishioners to know that any of them would be smart enough to know the difference between a joke and a personal attack.

Why are you so defensive about this that you can't recognize a joke about the profession you're defending? Why do you give a rat's ass what I think of shrinks? Are you one? No matter, people will still pay through the nose for your wisdom, whether I think it's a good idea or not. Have you been helped by one? Well, bully for you! Others have not. And are free to say so.

[TZ]

119. Cleary being a preacher

qualified you to make IDIOTIC statements. I feel bad for your parishoners

[mnhtnbb]

39. I wondered if you weren't bitter from a bad experience. I'm sorry you

were stung. Psychoanalysis is no more appropriate for everyone than is neurosurgery for somebody with headaches.

There is a lot of controversy--among psychoanalysts--about effective treatment. There are two psychoanalytic societies in Chicago and one of them broke away from the original Freudian group.

Evolution exists.

[Critters2]

55. Psychoanalysis is entirely based on a lack of respect for the

client. It is all abusive and it is all fraud. Pure and simple.

[Midlodemocrat]

75. Wow. That is shockingly ignorant, Critters. I'm surprised at you.

[Critters2]

79. Simple concept--abuse begets anger. nt

[Forkboy]

122. Yet doesn't equate to being right.

[Dangerously Amused]

87. Agreed.

Critters, I am very sorry that you had that horrible experience and I can see where it would make you bitter and closed-minded. But your reality is not everyone's reality. Many people's lives have been greatly enriched -- and even saved -- by members of the disciplines you target with your blanket vitriol. You need to look no further than the replies to this thread for proof of that.

I hope you find a way to work through your anger about this so that it does not continue to have a negative impact on yourself and those you advise with respect to this issue.

[Critters2]

96. I refer to therapists who use proven techniques.

And anger is a reasonable and useful response to abuse. Because of my anger, no one I'm responsible for will be referred to a theiving quack like I was.

[Haole Girl]

80. Critters2

You really, truly, don't believe that... do you?

[Critters2]

82. Psychoanalysis is based on the assumption that the client

doesn't really understand what s/he is feeling, needs their feelings interpreted, explained. Client-centered therapies take the client at his/her word, treats the client with full respect as a human being. Not surprisingly, it also shows results more quickly.

[Haole Girl]

85. The counselor I went to, after my mother died, was very helpful

First, they opened up my mind to the possibility that suicide is not simply a selfish act. They also explored my childhood... even hypnotized me once & helped me remember things I'd locked away in my sub-conscience for years.

Often, I think, I'd have gone down an extremely destructive path if I didn't seek help when I did.

It's really too bad you don't see any of the good psychoanalysis can provide.

[Critters2]

95. I've seen too much of the bad. nt

[Haole Girl]

98. One of the things counseling helped me realize...

is not to see everything as "back and white." There are many shades of gray.

It's possible, you know, that the people who go to you are truly at the end of their rope. They might have had bad experiences with counseling and/or have been "brought to their knees," as the expression goes, and had nowhere else to turn.

Just don't close off the possibility of the good. There are many therapists who do a lot of good.

[Critters2]

102. As I've stated elsewhere, there are some good therapists,

and schools of training based on logic and good research. I make referrals to those therapists. There are other schools I consider to be complete and total quackery, no matter what degrees the therapists have. I will never make a referral to those.

[Haole Girl]

104. Ok, good

To be honest, I didn't read the whole thread. I sort of skipped through the parts that got too hot.

[Critters2]

105. My complaint is with psychoanalysis and the neo-Freudians.

I'm trained in client-centered therapy myself, though not enough training to be licensed. I make referrals to cognitive therapists. If they want to refer someone on to another therapists, that's cool. But, after my own experience, I would consider it malpractice on my part to refer to a psychoanalyst.

[mnhtnbb]

86. Given your statements, how is a person in denial going to change?

[Critters2]

94. "Denial" is a judgment made by the therapist.

Good therapists are non-judgmental.

[mnhtnbb]

100. A good therapist will aid a person in recognizing denial, which can

be a very maladaptive defense mechanism.

[Critters2]

103. Clients have the right to define their own problems, and to seek

treatment for problems they identify. A good therapist will treat the client for the problems the client identifies.

[mnhtnbb]

110. If the client is aware of the problem, great. What do you do with the alcoholic

who denies being an alcoholic, for example?

[Shell Beau]

111. Denial is huge in many addictions and illnesses.

I hate to say this, but I think you are talking to a brick wall. Which is unfortunate because many people have been helped by psychiatry and psychology.

[mnhtnbb]

114. I think you're right about the brick wall. See the response #113.

There are holes all over the place in her approach: self-diagnosis; unwillingness to recognize knowledge, wisdom, experience in an "authority" figure; lack of awareness or unwillingness to recognize defense mechanisms; generalization from one bad experience to an entire field --and that's just from the perspective
of an 'observer'.

It's a damn shame, because if there are members of her congregation with addictions (particularly drug addictions), referral to a psychiatrist with specialized training in that area is the most appropriate place for the person to get treatment.

[Critters2]

113. Why is the alcoholic in the therapist's office in the first place.

Some problem brought the client to therapy. The client and therapist need to work TOGETHER on that problem. If the problem is due to alcoholism, that will come out in the course of treatment. The purpose of therapy is to improve the client's life. If alcoholism is causing problems, and the client wants those problems to improve, they will end up working to solve the underlying problem.

What would you do? Force the client to deal with problems the therapist identifies from an hour long session or two each week? The industry doesn't want you to know this, but therapists are not omniscient. Nor do most people need help from an authority figure.

[Heidi]

42. Since you're providing referrals, I hope your personal bias isn't hurting people

or biasing them against the science-based, medical care they may need.

[Critters2]

51. I refer only to cognitive behavioral or dialectical behavioral therapists

the two most clinically effective forms of psychotherapy, by all accounts except that of psychoanalysts. If the CBTs or DBTs want to refer them on to someone else, they're free to do that. But I'm not going to ask some poor soul whose life is already difficult to commit to years and years of "therapy" that isn't proven effective. The purpose of therapy is to improve one's life, not keep them locked in a relationship or enrich a therapist. CBTs understand this. They have one goal--to treat the symptoms making life difficult.

If there were a client-centered therapist in this community, I would refer people there. Unlike psychoanalysts, c-c therapists (which is my own training, but not enough to be licensed) actually take a client at their word. They aren't fishing around for "subconscious" meanings and shit. They let the client actually define his/her own problems and needs. Freudian and neo-Freudian nonsense is based on the notion that the client is too stupid or too dishonest to define the course of treatment.

Why people pay for such abuse is beyond me.

Here's a good overview of CBT. Notice the discussion of compassion and validation.
http://cognitivetherapynyc.com/default.asp?sid=768

Here's an introduction to Client-Centered Therapy. Notice that the client directs the process, something you won't find with a Freudian: http://world.std.com/~mbr2/cct.html

[Heidi]

53. People pay for abuse, in churches for example, all the time.

Why would it surprise you that this happens in "official" for-profit industries?

[Critters2]

57. It doesn't surprise me. I don't endorse abuse in my own profession,

why would I refer people to entire schools of thought that are based on disrespect and invalidation of feelings, ie abuse, in another profession? I only refer to therapists sing training based on compassion and validation. Thus, no psychoanalysts, no Freudians, Jungians, or neo-Freudians. I only refer to cognitive behavioral, dialectical behavioral, or client-centered therapists. To subject my parishioners or others to other schools of psych training would be unethical, imo. So, I don't do it.

[Heidi]

58. Can you provide any evidence that psychiatry is based upon

disrespect and invalidation of feelings? Please know that I, and many others, are prepared to provide you with a whole raft of evidence that churches of all stripes have traded in the disrespect and invalidation of human feelings for as long as there has been organized religion.

What's disrespectful is for you, as a member of clergy, to deny--by omission or unchecked personal bias--those who view you as an authority figure the full range of mental health care opportunities available to them.

If you're a Scientologist, no need to answer. I understand completely how psychiatry competes with the Scientology trade.

[Critters2]

60. A large part of the difference is that I don't pretend that what I do

is a science. I am quite upfront about the fact that I can't prove the existence of the soul, or even of God. I believe these things, I deal with people who believe these things, I don't wave my credentials around to get others to believe them.

Most psychiatry and psychology are based on the existence of a "subconscious", also an unprovable category, which must be taken on faith. For all their medical training, they can't point to a part of the brain that functions as the subconscious. In fact, I've often maintained that Freudian and Jungian psychoanalysis more closely resembles a religion than a science. An authority figure interprets the needs of a less enlightened soul, who does whatever the authority figure recommends, having been convinced, often wrongly, that the authority figure is worthy of trust. It's just a much more lucrative religion than mine. And notice how testy people get when it's queationed.

Oh, and I teach and preach ethical behavior much more than I do theology or cosmology. In fact, my Easter sermon asked how we would live, behave, differently if we believed we no longer had to fear death, or could impose that fear on others.

Apparently, the problem here is that you don't trust my religion, and I don't trust yours.

[Heidi]

66. I'm finished here. You have changed my opinion about you as a member of this community.

I can think of fewer than five times this has happened in my five years as a DU member. At this point, if you are not providing your parishioners with a full array of mental health treatment opportunities available to them, you impress me as no different than the virulently pro-life advocate who refuses to make women aware of all of their medical choices. It's best now that I say no more.

[Critters2]

71. I refer to qualified licensed therapists. Just not YOUR preferred

type of qualified, licensed therapists. What's your beef with that?

[Midlodemocrat]

68. Dupe.

[Midlodemocrat]

69. Nope. Not even close.

There are good practitioners as well as bad ones; same as there are good preachers and bad ones.

The bad ones shouldn't be a condemnation of the entire profession.

I know myself, personally, I helped a lot more people than I hurt. In fact, I can't really think of any patient of mine who was further damaged by being treated by me.

[cherish44]

28. If people are open to it and want to change, it can be very effective

as for me, I couldn't afford a shrink and got a cat instead. My kitty is a great therapist.

[Jeep789]

29. The do some good. They do some bad.

Psychiatry is a very complex science that is way to underfunded.

[Droopy]

30. Okay folks. There's a difference between a psychiatrist and a psychologist

Many here seem to have them confused. A psychologist just talks to you about your problems and cannot prescribe meds. A psychiatrist can perform talk therapy, but usually they just prescribe medication based on what they can gather about your symptoms. That's the way it works where I from anyway.

I used to see both. Now days I just see a psychiatrist. I see him once every three months for 15 minutes. He askes me how I'm doing, do I have any symptoms, and writes me a prescription. The medication works very well for me and that's all the therapy I need.

[TZ]

34. Thank you psychiatrists are MD's

They are NOT witch doctors as some suggested. The ignorance in this thread is APPALLING

[Midlodemocrat]

36. Actually most psychologists in many states can prescribe meds.

Just not Class Threes.

:thumbsup:

[Heidi]

43. Thank you. Not sure how much good it will do to try to educate people

who cling so desperately to personal bias, but thank you, Droopy.

[Shell Beau]

106. I, myself, am blown away at some of the things I have read.

I feel like this is obvious. It helps many people. Some have bad experiences. That is life. It happens with everything. If I don't like a doctor, I choose another one. I don't quit going to doctors in general because of it. And if I did quit going to doctors all together because of my nasty experience, I certainly wouldn't be the person you should go for referrals.

But, hey, that makes sense.

[fizzgig]

90. thanks for this post, droopy

i had a therapist and a psychiatrist for some time, but now i'm down to just a psychiatrist (mostly due to finances) and all they do is maintain my medication.

[Midlodemocrat]

35. Complete and utter nonsense. Why would anyone go into that field?

I mean, seriously?


:wtf:

[mnhtnbb]

40. Try asking someone who has devoted his life to helping people

and then ask some of the thousands of people who have been grateful for that help.

There is an appalling ignorance on this thread.

[Droopy]

44. I do believe Midlo is a psychologist with a Ph.D.

And she was just posting in jest. I understand that we all don't know each other equally well around here.

I'm grateful for people like your husband. I have schizoaffective disorder and my career and life count on a guy like your husband. Without his help I would probably be dead right now and at the very least would not be a functioning member of society.

[mnhtnbb]

48. I don't know Midlo--except for her U Conn connection--and I do know

that there are some cats and dogs that get along better than do some psychologists and psychiatrists.

Mental/emotional health in American society is rarely discussed and preferably hidden. There's no parity
on insurance plans. Lots of religious groups are openly hostile to the concept of therapy without regard to particular profession. Many of them fear, rightly so, that their members will be drawn away from membership.

Thank you for posting.

:hug:

[Heidi]

47. Midlo's pullin' your leg, I think.

:hi:

[Midlodemocrat]

50. Psst, dude.

I'm a psychologist. I was being sarcastic.

[Critters2]

76. What school of thought are you trained in, Midlo?

I want to remind you that I am quick (very quick) to refer to certain forms of therapy, am trained in client-centered therapy myself, and currently doing coursework in non-violent communication, which is an offshoot of client-centered therapy. But there are schools of thought of which I am more than a little suspicious, based on my own experience. I can only describe my "treatment" as abuse.

I have several therapists in my congregation, most of whom know and acknowledge my experience, and for whom I have great respect. But, all of those in my congregation are trained in CBt, DBT, or client-centered therapy. In fact, one of my deep irritations is that it is unethical for me to refer to members of my own congregation, and I wish I could, because these are good people. Two are at the county mental health center, and I can refer there without mentioning specific therapists, but I always keep my fingers crossed.

So, I apologize for the broadbrush. But I do feel there are schools of training that are dangerous to clients. And most of those are the MD, not the Phd types.

Based on my experience, I feel VERY strongly about this. No one should ever go through what I did, yet I know people who've been through much worse, who didn't walk away as soon as I did. One shouldn't need a therapist to recover from therapy, as I did.

[Midlodemocrat]

91. Well, I've been schooled in all of them, but I tended to come

down most on the behaviorism side. B.F. Skinner, et al.
I mostly used Congitive Behavioral Therapy in dealing with patients, but I also did a great deal of grief counseling as well.

My clientele were mostly children and adolescents, so there was a whole gamut of family therapy, too.

[Shell Beau]

107. But for your bad experience (which I don't want to take away from at all),

there are many who have had very positive outcomes.

Your personal experience is blinding you, IMO.

[zanne]

45. I'm amazed that this question is still coming up.

Psychiatry is a proven science. In fact, stating that there's nothing to it is nonsense. It's our only hope for understanding Republicans. I believe there's been some progress made in isolating the part of the brain responsible for voting for George Bush.

[FloridaJudy]

46. How about both of the last two?

My life was thoroughly fucked up by a psychiatrist who misdiagnosed me, and was too arrogant to admit it. I still have nightmares about the time I was under his 'care'.

It was also saved by another one who helped me deal with the consequences. Some psychiatrists are very bad at what they do. Others are very, very good. Much like any other profession, I expect. Sadly, the damage that the bad ones can do is immense.

[no name no slogan]

72. Sounds like my experience

My first psychiatrist slapped me on Paxil before I knew what was going on. Based on his diagnosis of depression, I went through a dozen different anti-depressants over the course of 15+ before I was properly diagnosed as having bipolar disorder.

Unfortunately, anti-depressants tend to aggravate bipolar disorder, and can make moods more unstable, leading to manic episodes (which can be even more destructive than depression). Looking back, I am fairly certain I've had several manic episodes that were brought on by anti-depressant medications, all because I got the wrong initial diagnosis from a doc who was little more than a pill pusher.

Thankfully I've got a very good psychiatrist now. She did her training at the Mayo Clinic, and is a firm believer in the "less is more" school of medication. Since I started seeing her, I've managed to go off two medications and am finally stabilizing on a couple that work very well.

Sometimes you just gotta shop around, and not be afraid to question your doctor.

[fizzgig]

89. your last statement is dead on

a psychiatrist is like any other doctor. if you're unhappy with your gp, you look for a new one. if you're unsure about a diagnosis, you get a second opinion. it's all about getting a doc with whom you feel comfortable and trust.

[Common Sense Party]

63. Often just pill pushers.

I had two different psychiatrists who, upon meeting my severely autistic son, wanted to prescribe Prozac for him--WITHOUT actually examining him. When I asked for copies of long-term studies that demonstrated that a powerful drug like Prozac was (1) effective, and (2) not harmful to autistic children, neither could do anything but stammer.

My son was five years old when the first pill-pusher tried that. Five.

[SoxFan]

65. "Droolers"?

Grow up.

What's next, calling cancer patients "bald bastards"?

[Deep13]

77. "some good" or "lifesaver," no in-between?

They do a lot of good, but it did not literally save my life. As I have found, it is possible to live in misery.

[Deep13]

78. I'm glad there's only one vote for "I'm Woody Allen."

My guess is only one person is in fact Woody Allen.

[Critters2]

81. Ah, Woody Allen. 35 years in psychoanalysis, and he still married

his step-daughter. There's a testimonial.

[Deep13]

84. Well, since his therapy is confidential...

...I don't think we really know what he has or has not done. So, like most testimonials, it is pretty worthless.

Sorry if I am being short, but I have benefitted greatly from psychiatry. So it is a bit personal for me.

[Shell Beau]

109. You know, maybe he feels he benefits from it.

You don't know him so you can't really judge. Nor should you.

[blogslut]

83. Well, isn't this a delightful topic?

Pardon me but I shall not participate in your cynical, nasty poll.

[kimmerspixelated]

92. Psychology yes-Psychiatry no!

Anything that pushes really dangerous drugs is just a racket!

[mnhtnbb]

97. Not all psychiatrists are drug pushers.

[no name no slogan]

108. And drugs, in and of themselves, are not dangerous

If they are prescribed and taken properly, they can be lifesavers.

[kimmerspixelated]

115. With psycho- drugs

in particular, I beg to differ. Sometimes they cause the person taking them to kill themselves or others.

[Midlodemocrat]

99. Wrong. But thanks for playing.

[Lucian]

93. I'd be dead right now if it wasn't for psychiatrists.

[mnhtnbb]

101. For those inclined, here's an interesting view on the dying art of psychotherapy

http://blogs.psychologytoday.com/blog/evil-deeds/200808/denial-and-the-de-souling-psychotherapy-a-reply-is-psychotherapy-dying

[DuaneBidoux]

112. It is totally good science, and someday combined with the contemplative traditions we will find that

it is a road to personal evolution that is more powerful than anything we can now imagine.

[Mad_Dem_X]

117. Therapy and medication saved my life

I would most likely be dead right now otherwise.

[Forkboy]

123. Depending on the patient and the doctor it could be both.

For some it clearly doesn't help (and judging by at least one person in this thread, total bitterness is enough to pass judgment on all of them). But for many it does help. I think it's effectiveness usually depends on the patient's approach more often than the psychiatrist's. If one goes into it expecting it to fail it probably will.