What bugs me about St Patrick's Day.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

(OK, before I start the rant, I will point out that both my grandmothers were born in Ireland, and I am ethnically Irish, born in Scotland, so I guess this is my territory)

Does anyone know when St David's Day is? St George's Day? St Andrew's Day?. If I went into work on March 1st, wearing red, saying 'hug me, I'm Welsh!' and singing Tom Jones at the top of my voice, what would happen?
Why do we celebrate this particular Saint's day, and not the others? Why do we have a day set aside for the Irish, and not, say, the Dutch, or the Swedes? What is it in our culture that makes being of Irish descent preferable? Do the Irish just have better PR?
I realise one argument is that North America has a large Irish population. Very true. Then why don't we celebrate Scotland's national day, St Andrew's Day, or (god forbid) England's national day?

I for one will be celebrating St Swithin's Day this year, my favourite 9th century bishop. It's on July 15th. Apparently, if it rains on St Swithin's Day, it rains for forty days afterwards. Now, that's a holiday.

So, have I just started a firestorm for myself?

[GOPisEvil]

1. We were just looking for an excuse to dye stuff green.

St. Swithin's Day is a GREAT day to celebrate. "From now to St. Swithin's Day" is a great colloquialism.

[DarkPhenyx]

2. Why does "Black History Month" get all the press...

...and "Irish History Month" "Hispanic Heritage Month" et. al. get bupkiss on TV and radio?

[Screaming Lord Byron]

6. Shouldn't every culture get a History Month?

I'm sure Indian History Month would be fascinating.

[DarkPhenyx]

7. Absolutely, I agree. Many of them already have one.

They just don't get any press. If all peoples got more recognition for not only their successes, but the trials they went through getting there, then we would have a much better balanced view of history.

Are you talking about Asian Indian or AmerInd history month though?

[Screaming Lord Byron]

9. Asian Indian, but both would be of interest.

[DarkPhenyx]

16. Agreed.

Won't get to see them though. Why? Neither is a voting block you can successfully pander and suck up to.

[Zero Gravitas]

28. Ding-ding-ding

we have a winner!

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

3. It's more a celebration of Irish heritage than a Catholic

feast day. The Irish were the bottom rung of the ladder (the white ladder, that is) and when they began to take positions of power in the big cities they began openly flaunting their pride.

Plus everybody loves an excuse to get drunk!!!

[DarkPhenyx]

14. Excellent example of a failed understanding of World History.

The Irish in Ireland weren't much better off, if any, than Blacks in the Americas. There is a reason so many of them immigrated to the New World. Even then they had to do so as indentured servants in many cases.

"White Ladder" my ass.

[greatauntoftriplets]

31. And a celebrating of fighting 800 years of....

...English oppression. A sort of "in your faces1!"

[H2O Man]

4. Read Thomas Cahill's book,

"How the Irish Saved Civilization." This wonderful book has extensive information on the significant impact that Patrick has had on the world. It's nothing against the other's you mentioned, but they are not close in historic importance.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

5. I could counter with 'How the Scots Invented the Modern World'

by Arthur Herman. The Scots have had at least equal impact on the world as the Irish. As have the Chinese, Germans, Italians, Indians etc.
But I'm sure every culture has their equivalent of that book.

[DarkPhenyx]

15. And you never see either book in school. n/t

[H2O Man]

33. You might try reading "The Age of the Picts",

by W.A. Cummins, so that you could enjoy a better understanding of why Herman's book isn't a "counter," so much as it is more proof I'm right. And you simply can not name another European nation that withstood the Roman Empire and the Dark Ages. The significance is that the western world survived intact because -- and ONLY because-- of the Irish. One could speculate on if it might have been better otherwise. We'll leave that to those who think it's cool to get intoxicated today as a "tribute" to the Irish. But, for thinking people today means something altogether different.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

35. I could argue that Islam saved civilization during the Dark Ages.

But I take your point about the Irish. However, I would not state that civilization survived ONLY because of the Irish. That's too simplistic.

[H2O Man]

44. Being Irish and Islamic, I would

appreciate that. But I'd know that Islam as a force in those days did not help civilization survive. If, for example, we looked at the pre-1800 status of women in native Ireland vs the staus of women at any time in Islam, the debate ends. I find your thoughts both interesting and valid; first, we should learn from the Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) that the cycle of life allows for (perhaps demands) many more "holidays" for ceremony. It would be to our benefit if your idea of celebrating a far wider & more diverse selection of human beings. Yet to do that, we would need to focus on what the true meaning is. My problem with the way today is viewed is summed up in your word "simplistic." The significance of Patrick, the suffering of the Irish, and the experience of the immigrant Irish is demeaned by the foolishness that we witness today. Still, being Irish, I will say that our adopted Britian Padraic stands as one of very few humans who, for a variety of reasons, has a huge impact upon the world.

[Bridget Burke]

49. The book is part of a series....

Thomas Cahill also wrote "The Gifts of the Jews: How a Tribe of Desert Nomads Changed the Way Everyone Thinks & Feels" & "Sailing the Wine Dark Sea: Why the Greeks Matter".

Rather than have one book telling the "truth" about everything, he's focusing on one interesting group at a time. There are many more stories to tell--and there are books out there telling them, if you look!

[Screaming Lord Byron]

50. Well that makes more sense, thanks.

[Burma Jones]

8. Well, I think Anheuser-Busch had a lot to do with it

It started out as an Irish Pride sort of thing, parades in Boston, NY and Chicago. But, given the stereotype of the drunk Irishman and sharp marketing departments, we got the big deal St. Patricks Day. You can see the same thing starting to happen with Cinco de Mayo, it's becoming an alcohol-fueled marketing holiday

[Screaming Lord Byron]

13. Yeah, give it twenty years, Cinco will be as big as St Patrick's Day

[sistersofmercy]

20. Yes, it is about marketing and Cinco de Mayo is rapidly becoming

similar in festivity level to St Patty's Day. Here in St Louis Cinco de Mayo is huge, Mexican restaurants are totally packed, it's very curious because we don't have a large Mexican, hispanic, latino etc community here. St Louisians just love an excuse to party.

BTW, You have the most hilarious sig line! Thanks for the morning laugh, new_beawr.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

10. St. Joseph's Day-March 19th-Celebrated by Italians

but overshadowed by St. Pat's day here in Boston (though the Boston area is very Italian-American).

They even have a special dessert for the day called Zeppole, which is a kind of pastry ravioli that is filled with vanilla pudding, whipped cream, or sweet cheese. YUMMY!

[T_i_B]

11. Commercialization

That's why people do St Paddy's. Guiness have made it into a fantastic excuse for a piss up. Mind you, I know Scots & Welsh who make a big deal of their patron saint's days.

Now of course if we English made St George a commericalised excuse for a piss up maybe things would be different. I wouldn't mind for one as it would be a great opportunity to promote real ale.(I'm a CAMRA member you see)

[Screaming Lord Byron]

12. Why not St George's Day?

You've got as much right as the Irish.

[T_i_B]

52. A couple of things

Firstly, St George is not even recognised as a saint by the Catholic church these days.

Secondly, none of our business's other than Bombardier bitter seem to have thought of any way to make money out of it. And even then they don't exactly have the marketing clout of Guiness.

http://www.bombardier.co.uk/index.php

In the meantime, I'll be getting ready for Yorkshire day on August 1st. :evilgrin:

http://www.yorkshirenet.co.uk/yorkshireday/

[TlalocW]

17. On MTV's cartoon Daria

In the episode, "Depth Takes a Holiday," the physical manifestations of Christmas, Halloween and Guy Fawke's Day left Holiday Island to come to her town to start a band. Cupid/Valentine's Day and St. Patrick's Day were sent to bring them back, and they enlisted Daria and her friends' help. In one scene where they're walking around Holiday Island's High School, there are all these pure white kids (skin, hair, clothes) walking around. Valentine's Day explained them as, "A bunch of saint days... Who can keep track of them all?" I thought that was cute since V-Day is technically St. Valentine's Day, and he was teamed up with St. Patrick's Day.

No point. Other than I liked Daria.

After showing Daria the fallout of Halloween, Christmas, and Guy Fawke's Day leaving Holiday Island (Halloween candy, Christmas toys, and kidney pies aren't selling at the mall)
St. Patrick's Day: You see, Daria, you *really* did have a wonderful life.
Daria: What the hell are you talking about?

TlalocW

[Screaming Lord Byron]

18. It was a very good show. What happened to it?

[TlalocW]

19. It ended

I never watched it on television - mainly because I don't have cable. I would catch bits and pieces of it when channel surfing at my mom's house during holidays. So I Kazaa'ed them all. It ran five seasons, and the producers thought they had wrapped things up okay with the final episode of the fifth season, but viewers demanded more Daria so they went ahead and did an hour long special called, "Is It College Yet," detailing the students making their post graduation plans. Jane and Daria both got into (separate) colleges in Boston as I recall. Kevin, the QB, flunked and didn't graduate.

TlalocW

[Catshrink]

21. Isn't St. David's Day March 1st?

That's Welsh, right? I'm trying to remember. A friend of mine used to make Leek soup on St. David's Day.... the recipe started "take a leek...."

[Screaming Lord Byron]

23. I think so. I should've been more clear about what I meant, there.

[Bertha Venation]

22. Why?

Because people want an excuse to drink green beer, of course. :shrug:

Not very original. Sorry -- I don't know why.

But in celebration, I will now throw my purple snake against the wall and see how long it sticks!

[KittyWampus]

24. St. Crispin's Day Is October 25th...

:)

Heck, any cause for Celebration and lifting of spirits is to be commended.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

25. Henry V, right?

This day is called the feast of Crispian:
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when the day is named,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian:'
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars.
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispin's day.'
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember with advantages
What feats he did that day: then shall our names.
Familiar in his mouth as household words
Harry the king, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester,
Be in their flowing cups freshly remember'd.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember'd;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

[CrownPrinceBandar]

48. Right before the Battle of Agincourt....eom

[SiobhanClancy]

26. Count your blessings....

I'm ethnically Irish,too and mostly deplore the way St. Patrick's Day is celebrated. A great deal of it perpetuates ethnic stereotypes and doesn't do anything to promote Irish heritage. I enjoy a good time as much as anyone,but I'll be staying home today and leaving it for the plastic paddies and the amateur drinkers:)I celebrate irish heritage EVERY day.

[LWolf]

27. What bugs me about St. Patrick day

is the same thing that bugs me about every holiday. I'm an elementary school teacher. I can't just show up to work, I have to have all of these days set into the schedule where kids are in such a frenzy that we can't take care of business, and I get to be security guard over the frenzy all day long.

Like today. All day long I'll be dealing with the pinchers, the pinchees, the ones who have to show off an entire costume, the kids who forgot and are embarrassed, etc.

I'll take St. Pat's day over St. Valentine's day, any time. At least I can play tricks on the kids all day and blame it on leprechauns.

Now, what evil tricks can I come up with for them today? :evilgrin:

[JitterbugPerfume]

30. Patrick drove the snakes (Druids)

out of Ireland


pity

[Maeve]

37. I prefer the linguistic version of the tale

That one term for snakes, lizards, toads, etc in Old Norse was "paud" and when the Vikings started settling in Ireland, they noticed the lack of such critters in their new home. So the Irish told them "St PAUDrig" drove the little blighters out...great leg-pullers, the Irish.

And the Druids remained in Ireland long after Patrick, along with the old Celtic traditions (Patrick is supposed to have helped codify the Brehon Law, even)--it wasn't until the 16th-17th centuries and the English suppression of the last traces of the bards and old ways that they really were "driven out".

And the Other are still there...

[Screaming Lord Byron]

38. Shhh! You'll be giving away the secrets of De Dannan and the big music!

You won't be getting to Tir Na Nog!

[Maeve]

39. Remind me sometime to tell you what happened to me in Killarney

Or read one of my new favorite books--"Meeting the Other" by Eddie Lenihan (a wonderful man altogether, from all I've seen!)

Hubby is a confirmed agnostic for the most part...except the Other, after our trip last summer.

[Bridget Burke]

29. Irish pride made St Patrick's day important in the USA.

As the lowest on the immigration ladder in the WASP culture of early America--& Catholic to boot--they refused to be ashamed of being Irish. So they transformed an Irish religious holiday into an occasion to march & wear green. Mexican immigrants celebrating Cinco de Mayo is an exact modern parallel--it's not that big a holiday in Mexico but it's an excuse to celebrate their culture.

In both cases, commercialization & excessive boozing can be problems. But genuine celebration is still possible.

For those who feel neglected, I urge them to organize a parade!

[REP]

32. St David's Day is March 1

And hell yes, I wear a leek. My button reads "Fuck Off, I'm Welsh," though.

[THUNDER HANDS]

34. I agree with you, I always thought St. Patrick's day was stupid

I'm suprised more Irish people don't object to a glorified drinking holiday. Has anyone seen that Guiness commerical that parodies Christmas morning with three guys who wake up to find Guiness kegs under their tree?

Oh, and I also don't like the holiday because of what they did to the Druids back in the day. That wasn't cool.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

36. Thanks, MR. There is a subtext of 'the Irish are a bunch of drunks,' there

Isn't there?

[SoDesuKa]

47. Glorified Drinking Holiday

St. Patrick's Day is not a glorified drinking holiday, it's a celebration of St. Patrick and of being Irish. People can get drunk on the 17th, but they can do that on the 16th and the 18th. They don't need an excuse.

[Bridget Burke]

51. So, what did they do to the Druids?

Show me the historical accounts. The conversion of Ireland was quite peaceful.

[ZenLefty]

40. There was a holiday gap in the calendar.

Between V-day and Cinco de Mayo, there was this long gap of nuthin. All we had was Fete des Grand-Meres on March 7, and what do we celebrate then? I don't know either.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

41. We should celebrate St Jean Baptiste day - June 24th.

A summer solstice holiday.

And the day after my birthday.

[ZenLefty]

42. Too close to 4th of July, and ZenLefty Day

Please, people need time to recuperate after the drinking, dancing, eating and wild orgies of celebrating ZenLefty Day (June 9). We can't have too many holidays on the calendar. And remember, ZombyWoof Day is June 10th! :o

[kayleybeth]

43. You could celebrate my wedding anniversary instead...

Mr. kayleybeth and I were married 8 years ago today. Really just a coincidence that we got married on St. Patrick's day. Although I think Mr. kayleybeth might have favored the date because it would be easy to remember :-).

[SOteric]

45. Because,

like Cinco de Mayo (which really isn't Mexican Independence Day) it has come to be associated with drunken festivities, and apparently we Yanks will use just about any reason to drink to excess.

I like to call them the Alcoholidays.

And in answer to your other question, yes, as a good little Catholic girl (okay, the 'good' part is a lie and I'm busy enough as it is in the confessional) I know when all the saints feast days are, -or at least I have a resource. I know for example that I was born on the feast of Saint Monica, and almost got named Monique because of it.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

46. I seem to recall reading that 14th Century France had about 130 holidays

all based on some saint's day or another.