Do people in the "HR" department actually do any work? If so, what?

[Orrex]

My apologies to any members of that noble department who happen to be reading this; I'm sure that you are the lone exception to an otherwise utterly pointless profession.

I mean, I know that they work very hard to make sure that their employers can't be held liable for any personnel-related transgressions, but do they do anything beyond that?

Here's a test: call any corporation you can think of--at any time of the business day--and ask to speak with someone in HR. I guarantee that you'll be told "I'm sorry, he's not in the office today," or "I'm sorry, she can't come to the phone," or some similarly transparent euphemism for "they don't do any work whatsoever, and they sure as hell can't be bothered to take your damn call."

And if you try that on a Friday after, say, 11:30 in the morning, the person you're talking to will audibly stifle a laugh before telling you that "she's left for the day."

[rcrush]

1. Payroll?

Does your HR department also handle your payroll? That can keep you pretty busy.

[Iggo]

3. Yeah. HR and Payroll are the same dept at my work.

[Orrex]

6. Totally separate departments at my last office job, but...

I guess you make a good point.

However, since it's clear that--in itself--HR is a meaningless department, they should just be honest about it and call themselves Payroll!

[rcrush]

11. Thats pretty much all it was when I did it

At one job I was responsible for payroll for all the hourly employees. I had to constantly make sure their files were up to code and making sure hours, vactions, sick days etc were correct. Had to process new hire paperwork and put them through orientation which is a pain the ass because I worked at a movie theatre and we hired people constantly almost. People quit almost as much as they get hired so had to keep up with all that.

It can be a mess with just one person doing it.


Someone always had something go wrong and needed fixing which for some reason with payroll causes way more work than it requires.

[iris27]

2. The hr person for my store does payroll, enters vacation/personal/sick days,

does all the paperwork involved for new hires (which is a lot because we hire temps 4 times a year), does the paperwork for any paycheck deductions...and she also does all our accounts receiveable stuff. It is a pain when she is gone.

[Pool Hall Ace]

4. Everywhere I have worked, HR and Payroll are separate.

While Payroll is extremely busy, HR is totally useless.

[rcrush]

12. Thats why I never understood why some places seperated it

Everywhere I've worked HR and Payroll were the same thing. I would have no idea what HR did if they didnt do payroll.

[ThomCat]

13. In large places payrole is part of the Finance department because

they handle budgets and checks. HR can't be trusted with direct financial access.

[rcrush]

42. Is it cause they are afraid someone might actually put through that raise people been promised?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

5. actually, I have to say that our HR person works...as much as any other

paper pusher in our place and maybe more so. Turn over is high and interviewing alone takes some time. She also helps with supplies and she was instrumental in my raise this year. I am pretty happy with HR at my place.

[wickerwoman]

7. Hey, it's hard work coming up with new hoops to make applicants jump through

instead of just reading their damn resumes.

It must have taken weeks just to come up with arbitrary rules like "no staples, no paperclips".

Then they invented cover letters so they would have a choice of reading the same information in outline form or in full paragraphs. God forbid they be responsible for connecting the information in the resume with the job descriptions themselves.

Then they had to invent those job specific questionnaires so that applicants have to write mini-essays for four or five pages worth of questions on job knowledge. Plus they have to go through the personality and honesty tests to screen out people stupid enough to admit to drug use or theft on an employment application.

And then the internet came along and they had to create custom application forms so that they could make applicants cut and paste all of the information from their resumes into computer fields so that they could be searched (and then attach the actual resume at the end).

But then it's so much work to go through the same information in outline, full paragraph, essay question *and* online that they really needed to take a break to get away from the mountains of paperwork.

[yewberry]

8. I worked in HR, and honestly, the workload was unbelievable.

I sure couldn't speak for your department, but the amount of work I had in my job was insane.

There are about 1300 people in my division (most of them highly mobile within the division, re-bidding jobs every season) and I did work with payroll. Two of us were responsible for personnel maintenance (data entry) for all of those re-bids in the HR system so that payroll could pay them. Every address change, reassignment (hundreds at a time), pay increase, change of status, leave accrual...all me. Also benefits--medical, LTD, life insurance, and pension--were ours, and that's not only data entry: that's processing them every time there there was a change of any kind, retirement, separation, major illness or accident, or death. And the new hires--there are usually between 80 and 100 of those a year, and we had to do all of that stuff along with all orientations. Personnel files, too...every piece of paper ever generated ended up in my office, waiting to be filed. I had to process all unemployment claims, act as the agency contact for ESD, reconcile the claims quarterly, and do the hearings. I was also the main contact for the NMC, so I got all of the calls from the employees and the Coast Guard regarding sea time. I had to issue all parking permits & generate passes for retirees & families of employees. Twice a year we had large data-reporting projects to do for the state, so those took a lot of time I didn't have, along with all of the randomly-occurring data projects that popped up all of the time. I also had to cover the receptionist's breaks for 1.5 hours a day. I ate lunch at my desk every day, forget about breaks, and was expected to be able to drop everything at any time of an employee showed up in the office needing help. Couldn't take time off because we were too busy and because of the payroll calendar, and I eventually got used to heaving to leave work undone at the end of the day.


People thought I was never there, though, because they always got my voicemail (I was already on the phone when you called...) but I never, ever went home with messages unanswered.

It was a really hard job, and everyone hates HR. Ugh. Not fun.

[Yavin4]

9. I Use To Make The Same Point Until I Worked Briefly for a Startup

You cannot imagine the amount of work that goes into writing a job description, posting it, reading and sorting the resume responses, contacting the applicants, and setting up the interviews. Also, doing the interviews can be a bear as well.

Then, you have to ensure compliance with being a citizen, benefits, and payroll. Finally, when you want to dismiss an employee, you have to do so to ensure that your business won't get sued.

It's a thankless job, and you have to do a lot of work that never gets noticed.

[Yavin4]

10. One More Point

One of the biggest targets for Software and Applications development (think databases and programming) is HR. For example, one of the most famous Agile Project Management techniques, XP, was developed on a project involving HR.

What does that tell you? It tells you that IT projects are drawn to HR because there's a ton of work to do in HR.

[NNadir]

14. One of their responsibilities is to fire people who question what they actually do.

[Common Sense Party]

21. One responsibility is to also fire people who don't know what they themselves

are supposed to do.

Like show up. And work. The entire shift.

[likesmountains 52]

15. At the hospital where I work they close their office for lunch from 11:30-1PM

the exact hours that most of us would be able to actually go to their office!

[Orrex]

16. A FOLLOW UP!

Okay, okay. For everyone whose experience of an HR department is informed by working for/with a company employing 500 or more workers, the question in the OP probably doesn't apply to you, and I'm willing to concede that the HR departments of such companies probably do actually do something from time to time.

However, everything I posted in the OP is also true (in my experience) with companies employing fewer than 50 workers and often fewer than 20. Surely, if a single individual can--in one work-week--manage the HR needs for a company of 500 employees, than a single individual can manage the weekly HR needs for a company of 50 employees in one tenth that amount of time.

That is, in a single afternoon.


And this, I submit, is entirely consistent with my experience as I described it.



By the way: :rant:

[Common Sense Party]

18. I work all the time with HR directors and benefits people in HR dep'ts.

They run the gamut. Some are airheaded slackers. Some work their everlovin' asses off and practically run half the company. They interview. They hire. They fire. They discipline. They determine benefit packages. they explain benefits. They enroll people for benefits. they yell at the insurance company that screwed up the benefits (or in my case, the 401k company). Sometimes they go visit, regularly, the four or ten different offices or jobsites. They calculate payroll, submit it, make sure checks are delivered, etc.

Most of the companies I'm dealing with, BTW, have fewer than 150 employees, many around 20 to 40.

[Orrex]

19. Clearly you're under the thumb of the nefarious international HR cartel

[Common Sense Party]

20. Under the thumb? Pshaw.

I run the freakin' cartel. You want somethin, you gotta go through ME.

[I Have A Dream]

27. I still respectfully disagree with you. nt

[Orrex]

28. Feh! Another worker in the thrall of the global HR hegemony!

Patience, dear sister! The revolution will free you ere long!

[I Have A Dream]

29. ... but I don't WANT to be freed!

:cry:

[Orrex]

44. More's the pity!

And that's all the more reason to free you!

[LeftyFingerPop]

17. Here you go...

Recruitment

Hiring

Firing

Develop employee handbooks

Maintain employee personnel files

Assist management and legal depts. with employee discipline

Ensure adherence to labor laws

Employee counseling on work related matters

Provide input to overall company policy

Ensure raises and bonuses are equitable across the company

Ensure the proper "coding" of positions to aid in the development of proposed labor rates to be bid on contracts

Sometimes payroll responsibilities

Manage employee benefits, including COBRA administration

....speaking as an ex-General Manager who was in charge of HR also.
:hi:

[madeline_con]

22. Yeah, WhereTF do they go all day?! n/t

[busybl]

23. they type up the pink slips

[Generic Brad]

24. Hope you are employed

Because I think they screen job applicants. If you ever do find yourself applying for a job, it might be a good idea to exclude this post as your writing sample.

[Orrex]

37. I'm just writing what everyone knows already

Except for those few poor souls here who've been shanghaied by the insidious world-wide HR cabal.

[keroro gunsou]

25. human resources is an oxymoron

emphasis on the moron part.

they don't act very human, and they aren't very resourceful.

at least not in my dealings with them.

[I Have A Dream]

26. The people in HR in my company work very hard.

No, I'm not in HR. :)

[Yavin4]

30. One More Item. They Have To Able To Testify In Court

If someone sues the company for a labor dispute, sexual harrassment, wrongful termination, etc., they have to be ready to testify.

[LibDemAlways]

31. In the early 80's I worked in what was then called the

"personnel" department of a large insurance company. The ordinary worker bees handled the payroll, recruited for open positions, hired "temps," handled the paperwork for new hires, kept track of benefits, sick time, worker's comp claims, and on and on. They earned their meager pay.

The bosses were another matter entirely. They sat on their asses collecting big paychecks, bonus checks, taking long lunches, and making up a bunch of draconian rules that didn't apply to them.

I was only there a year. I had to leave when they ganged up on an employee for "an unacceptable number of absences" incurred because of the illness and death of his infant son. Heartless bastards.

[Lethe]

32. you are dead on

the last job i worked had an HR person that had 2 assistants!! and this company didnt have over 40 employees. they didnt do shit! payroll was handled by the finance guys.

[MajorChode]

33. They are busy putting themselves in for bonus money

At least that's the way it is where I work.

HR gets the most and biggest bonuses. Nobody else has time to constantly put themselves and their coworkers in for them.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

34. as far as I can tell all they do is look for husbands

The HR department where I work is absolutely USELESS but worse still I have to fight them to the death for every single person I want to hire.

Quite frankly unless you are one of the following:

1. An unmarried man aged 25 to 35,
2. A cool young chick they want to go clubbing with,
3. A homosexual they want to keep as a pet to go shopping with,

You will not be met with their approval.

[kentauros]

35. They do the interviewing for new hires.

However, I've never had an interview with an HR person that knew anything about the position for which I was applying. Thus, I always got that utterly stupid question: "Where do you see yourself in five years?"

Every time I was interviewed by the people that would later become my supervisors, I either got the job or at least got a callback that they found someone slightly more qualified. I never once got asked that idiotic question by them.

[Orrex]

36. "Where do you see yourself in five years" isn't really a question

It's a tactic intended to force you to give a wrong answer, so that afterward they can say "you answered wrong."

Practically speaking, you're going to answer in one of two ways:

"I see myself in some higher-up position than the one that's currently open"
They'll write that you don't seem committed to the job you're applying for.

or

"I see myself still in this position I'm applying for."
They'll write that you display a lack of ambition and don't seem committed to benefiting the company.

Here's the funny thing: I got my last corporate job in 1999. When I left in 2008, the entire HR staff was unchanged from the day that I started, meaning that all 10 of them apparently saw themselves making more money for doing exactly the same work nine years later.


I suppose that you could give an answer like "I see myself zonked out of my head in a Bangkok opium den, surrounded by luscious bedmates of only the briefest acquaintance," but that probably wouldn't get you the job, either.

[kentauros]

38. So, there's no correct answer and my initial feelings about it

were correct.

How would they react if you said "I think that's a BS question intended to give only wrong answers, so I respectfully decline to do so." ? ;)

[raccoon]

61. How about "I see myself retired?" nt

[LanternWaste]

39. I imagine most HR employees wonder the same thing about our jobs.

I imagine most HR employees wonder the same thing about our jobs-- and if they're incorrect about you, it's because you're the lone exception to an otherwise utterly pointless profession.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

[Orrex]

43. Jokes on you! They know what I do, because I have (had) a clear job description

HR, on the other hand, is a nebulous catch-all for people who are good at sticking to the letter of company policy when it suits them and sticking to the spirit of the policy when it hurts you. And anyone who tries to hard to figure out exactly what goes on in the HR department is quietly disappeared.

[LanternWaste]

45. I have few doubts you feel that way.

I have few doubts you feel that way, and feel you are good at doing your very productive job-- as does almost everyone feel that way about their own positions and performance. Yet feeling and actual knowledge are usually two different things.


We tend to lay criticisms on others that we would never stand for when directed at ourselves-- their jobs and careers too.

[Orrex]

49. Gosh. Reading your post, it's like the clouds parted and the sun came out

And hundreds of cherubs spun a rainbow across the idyllic sky.


Perhaps your error was in misinterpreting an obvious joke/rant-thread as a serious castigation of the HR vocation. In which case, as I mentioned, the joke's on you.

[lukasahero]

52. I knew there was a reason

I :heart: you. :) (Former HR person - 15 yrs - never worked harder or cared more at any job.)

[grace0418]

40. Well, at the last company I worked for, HR was very busy firing people on seemingly

a daily basis. So I guess that's how they kept busy. Plus, they fired one friend of mine days after she came back from maternity leave and another friend when she was 8 months pregnant, so I guess they were also busy making up "legitimate" reasons for their actions to avoid lawsuits.

[lukasahero]

53. HR seldom determines who to fire

That decision is made by others and dumped on HR to carry out.

[grace0418]

54. I didn't say that HR determined anything, just that they were kept very busy

carrying out the orders at my old company. And it was up to them to play clean-up, as well. I remember after my pregnant friend got fired, HR was dispatched to all her friends in the office to "explain" what a bad job she was doing. It was pathetic, and completely untrue.

[lukasahero]

56. Really?

"HR was very busy firing people" - guess I read that to mean HR was busy firing people. Oh well. Silly me.

If anyone in your company was telling anyone why someone else was fired, they could be (and should be) fired themselves. At the very least, a lawsuit should be brought against them. Confidentiality in the very blood that HR should run on.

[grace0418]

58. How else would you word it? The HR person at my office did the actual act of firing people.

Not "HR decided who to fire" just that they were kept very busy doing it. Nobody to my knowledge actually got canned by the CEO, even though he made the final decisions on who was being canned. I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass, I just don't know how else to describe what HR at my company was busy doing without making it a much longer sentence than I think it needs to be.

And yes, my former company *should* have lawsuits up the wazoo for a number of reasons. Lack of confidentiality is just one. My friend who was 8 months pregnant when she got fired looked into a lawsuit. But she was 8 months pregnant, with a 3 year old at home, and too preoccupied with trying to figure out how they were going to make ends meet until she could start looking for work again. I think my CEO banked on that kind of stuff. And with the economy the way it is, who at the company was going to rock the boat and risk their jobs by complaining about any of the other lawsuit-worthy goings-on? All I can say is that I am sooooooo glad I'm not there any more. Even though they laid me off just before Christmas during the worst of the economic downturn, it was still the one of the best days of my life.

[Brickbat]

41. SO true. They find ways to not hire people, to bother the people who have been hired, and to create

busywork for themselves and others. The rise of HR and HR management and HR consulting has been a lot of the reason business has fallen.

ETA: IMO.

[valerief]

46. Fire people. nt

[Bucky]

47. When I was in HR I did payroll, hiring, recruitment, marketing, and tracked sales.

I kept busy, trust me.

[Orrex]

48. Why did they make the HR department do the sales tracking?

Shouldn't that be the responsibility of the sales department management?

[Bucky]

59. It was a small company. But sales tracking was part of employee evaluation.

By the cranky old president's calculation, that made it a personnel issue, ergo the personnel department had to keep the stats and evaluate the validity of sales. Really, HR is just such an elastic umbrella that companies can dump all sorts of miscellania into their work duties.

[carpetbagger]

50. HR loses your file.

That's what they do. Are you surprised they're out the door by noon on Friday? I mean, at least if they're out of the office, they're not plotting against you.

[lukasahero]

51. Yawn

Worked HR for 15 yrs before moving to systems. Learned a long time ago that it's just an easy department for people who don't know any better to whine about...

HR = payroll, medical benefits, compensation, deferred compensation, defined benefits (pension), defined contribution (401k), new hire orientation, recruiting, time off, worker's comp, STD, LTD, life insurance, etc, etc, etc...

[Orrex]

57. Okay, okay. You're another one of the statistical rarities. Fine.

That still doesn't explain why they take three hour lunches and disappear by 11:30 on Friday.


Incidentally, payroll at my company was a wholly separate department, and in a great many small companies payroll is outsourced in any case.

[Wapsie B]

55. I have no problem with HR.

Although I know their first duty is to protect the corporation at all costs I realize they do an important job. The issue I have is when hiring for highly technical positions. Giving them the authority to screen out resumes for technical jobs is ass-backwards IMHO. Let the departments who actually know what is required in a job make the first cut. Tell HR that you want to interview these people and have them do background checks to ensure that you're not talking to a child molester or drug dealer or whatnot. But doing that would take away a piece of authority from HR and that wouldn't happen without a big fight in most companies.
For low-skilled or generalist positions fine. Let HR screen the apps for janitor or secretary. But for MRI tech or Database programmer for example let the experts handle it.

[raccoon]

60. Tim Fields said the main purpose of HR was to keep the employer out of court.

He's a Brit who's done a lot to bring workplace bullying to public attention.