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Commas in a series. This is how I learned it in school:

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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 07:45 AM
Original message
Commas in a series. This is how I learned it in school:

If more than 2 in a series, there's a comma before the "and"

Example: He bought apples, oranges, and bananas.

But for some years now, I've seen it this way:

He bought apples, oranges and bananas. (no comma)


Did the rule change, and I didn't get the memo?



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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. I learned it the "no comma" way.
That the word "and" takes the place of the last comma and is unspoken for the other commas.
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nuxvomica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
2. In that example, it can go either way
I learned the "bacon and eggs" rule: if another "and" appears in the list, you must include a comma before the "and"; otherwise, it's ok to be lazy. Example: "For breakfast, I had toast, coffee, bacon and eggs, and juice." I prefer the comma in simple lists myself. I think you were taught well.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
3. That's a US-Brit difference. Brits don't use commas before 'and' and we do. In Canada...
it's a constant source of debate.
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begin_within Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
4. I was taught the "no comma before the 'and'" rule
so that's what I still use today and when I see a comma before the 'and' it looks wrong to me.
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MiddleFingerMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
5. I still struggle with this.
.
I was taught (in the 60's) that you put the comma before
the "and", but I think that rule changed over time.
.
Quite frankly, the sentence seems to "flow" better without
that last comma (though omitting it is often STILL not an
instinctive thing for me to do -- even decades after having
decided that the social norm was to omit it, even if not
the official grammatical norm).
.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
6. Either is okay. Either is OK. (on edit: I provide the best answer in this thread)
Edited on Fri Apr-30-10 08:52 AM by Bucky
I personally prefer the extra comma because it seems more consistent, and so does Strunk and White. But the loss of that one comma does not effect the meaning of the sentence.

Grammar and punctuation and all the rules of language arts, please remember, are descriptive of the English language, which is a naturally occurring phenomenon, not blanket prescriptions for how it's all supposed to be.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
7. Both are correct. With the comma is the traditional US way. Without, the Brit way. nt
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
8. It's the Oxford comma, and while not technically wrong, it's not right, either.
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Dr. Strange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. It is right. Indeed, it is the epitome of all that is holy and just.
Observe:

"I would like to thank my parents, Mother Teresa, and the Pope."
vs
"I would like to thank my parents, Mother Teresa and the Pope."
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
9. No, your "more than 2" rule is correct. People don't understand the problem.
The second example is a purchase of two items - apples, and a combined package of oranges and bananas.

Of course, putting a comma in where it doesn't belong can be just as bad: "My mother makes carrots, and peas in the same pot." (Say it out loud to get the humor).

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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
10. it's always been taught both ways
I was taught to use it when I was growing up, but now teaching in Illinois, most of my students have been taught not to use it.

In the example you offer there is little chance for confusion either way, but there are situations in which leaving off the comma can cause confusion, as well as a few situations where using the serial comma can cause confusion.

As long as there is no ambiguity created, either way seems fine with me, although I think that, generally speaking, using the serial comma creates less ambiguity.
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
12. Either is OK, but generally speaking, the serial comma is silly.
Edited on Fri Apr-30-10 10:31 AM by SteppingRazor
It's sort of like how we Americans insist on inches and feet when the rest of the world has gone on to meters. And even in America, use of the serial comma depends on what style manual you consult. Chicago is for it, while AP is against it. Thus, you probably won't see it in most newspapers, but you probably will see it in most books.

The only time I would use a serial comma is to avoid ambiguity -- For example:

The festival included performances by Metallica, Megadeth, Cannibal Corpse and Belle and Sebastian.

Now, in this instance, it's ambiguous whether it's two bands, Cannibal Corpse and Belle and another one called Sebastian, or two bands, Cannibal Corpse and another one named Belle and Sebastian.

Thus, you use the serial comma:

The festival included performances by Metallica, Megadeth, Cannibal Corpse, and Belle and Sebastian.

But in general, the serial comma is best avoided. Anerica is the only country I'm aware of in which it's used with any regularity in unambiguous instances.

On edit: And, really, in the above example, I would just as soon rewrite the sentence so that it reads:
The festival included performances by Belle and Sebastian, Metallica, Megadeth and Cannibal Corpse.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
13. There's a local RW blogger/radio blowhard that I call a "Commanist"
because of his excessive and unnecessary over-usage of commas.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
14. In Portuguese, it's with no comma. If I remember right, it's that way in Spanish too.
Whoa, the damn Mexicans stole your comma?
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
15. there are multiple usage/style rules
both are acceptable for the most part.

I suggest the book "Eats, Shoots and Leaves"
http://www.amazon.com/Eats-Shoots-Leaves-Tolerance-Punctuation/dp/1592400876
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
16. No comma before the "and", and in the name of all that's holy,
Edited on Fri Apr-30-10 11:07 AM by hedgehog
"fewer" is used for items that are counted, "Less" for things that are measured.

I meant to buy 10 apples,a pound of butter and three pounds of flour at the store.

I didn't have enough money, so I bought fewer apples and less butter and flour.

Now, someone explain the difference between good and well to me. I must have been absent that day.
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Good should never be an adverb.
It's an adjective that is placed after linking verbs: The outlook seems to be good. (In this case, good describes the outlook, not "seems.")

When the word you want to use describes the verb, not the noun, then you should use "well": She dances well. Not "she dances good," because "well" describes the manner in which she dances, not the woman.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Now I understand. Thank you.
Edited on Fri Apr-30-10 11:34 AM by hedgehog
She does well when cooking good food.
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Bingo!
:hi:
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. Dog how the 'less' when 'fewer' is correct drives me NUTS! It's not difficult!!!
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. It enables people to make a mistake in grammar that involves
a mathematical concept.
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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
20. Eats, Shoots and Leaves
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eats,_Shoots_&_Leaves

Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation is a non-fiction book written by Lynne Truss, the former host of the BBC Radio 4's Cutting a Dash programme. In the book, published in 2003, Truss bemoans the state of punctuation in the United Kingdom and the United States, and describes how rules are being relaxed in today's society. Her goal is to remind readers of the importance of punctuation in the English language by mixing humour and instruction.
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Silver Swan Donating Member (805 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
21. The US Government Printing Office Style Manual
says this:

(The comma is used) After each member within a series of three or more words,
phrases, letters, or figures used with and, or, or nor.

red, white, and blue
horses, mules, and cattle; but horses and mules and cattle
by the bolt, by the yard, or in remnants
a, b, and c
neither snow, rain, nor heat
2 days, 3 hours, and 4 minutes (series); but 70 years 11
months 6 days (age)

If it's good enough for the Government, it's good enough for me. (And I bet most people don't know that there is a US Government Printing Office Style Manual.)
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
22. I, for one, don't care.
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tango-tee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
23. Hell, English is my second language
and I'm profoundly happy if anyone understands what the hell I'm trying to say in the first place.

Comma, quotation marks, semi-colon and brackets!!!!

Grr.
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miscsoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-10 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
26. the way you described it is how i learned it in british schools
Edited on Fri Apr-30-10 03:11 PM by miscsoc
i've never noticed americans overlooking that rue, but there's been less emphasis on grammar recently so maybe putting a comma after that second last item has become common usage.
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