PHOTO: How the HELL do you "hunt" this for "sport?" At what point does it seem like "fun?"

[Amerigo Vespucci]

[snagglepuss]

1. It's a mindset I can't begin to understand:( nt

[flvegan]

2. First, you have to brainwash yourself into thinking you're a "hunter"

It helps to be an egomaniac that thinks life that isn't yours matters less.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

52. I don't think that is necessarily fair.

I realize that you're a vegan, and you've never been a douche about it, but people have to feed their families. Even today people hunt to do so. There are poverty stricken people in the country, and they have to feed their families still, in 2011, and I don't think your post is fair. I don't think most people necessarily enjoy killing animals just to kill them. I think most of the time, it is out of necessity. I personally know several families who have to hunt in order to survive. They hunt in the fall and winter in order to feed their families for the rest of the year. I know that there are sociopaths who do it for sport and do it to kill, but they are not the majority.
Duckie

[driver8]

56. I don't hunt, but my grandfather and uncles hunted to feed their families.

I couldn't shoot a deer, but understand why some people hunt.

[Badfish]

64. I agree.

But how and when does it become fun to kill animals ?

Seems to be the point of the OP.

[flvegan]

69. I'll be the first person

to give a pass and a pat on the back if they truly do hunt to survive. I've never said anything against the Inuit, though I'm the loudest DUer about whaling and sealing. I should have been clear in my post that my thought was geared towards the weekend "sportsman" and probably didn't do so as I don't know anyone that's been in that position.

My broadbrush was indeed unfair, thank you for calling me on it and allowing me to elaborate on my original post.

[HERVEPA]

73. The orignal poster said "for sport"

[Badfish]

78. And after reading the thread ..

I see most like to avoid that issue and respond with "people gotta eat"

The issue is killing animals for fun.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

79. They paint a broad stroke too...

And were amazingly unfair as well.
Duckie

[Lucian]

107. If people need to hunt to eat...

then how come deer hunting season is four months out of the year (at least here in MN)? How do those who need to eat feed themselves for the other eight months out of the year?

Argument fail.

I agree with flvegan on this one.

[Crystal Clarity]

111. My freezer works just fine

:-)

[Lucian]

130. You can only keep one deer during the season.

One deer doesn't feed you for a whole year.

Still an argument fail.

[Crystal Clarity]

131. Yes it does.

We don't eat deer meat every day.

Sometimes it is pork, bought locally, sometimes it's beef, bought locally, sometimes chicken (my sister raises them) sometimes turkey from a neighbor down the street, sometimes fish that my SO caught, and about once or twice a week, the venison that my SO tagged this past hunting season. At 18 cents p/llb the venison is the best bargain though.

BTW all the locally bought stuff is usually less or the same in cost as the Food Inc. style mystery meat one would find at the grocery store. The only difference is that I know how it was raised.

Furthermore, unless you are a vegetarian, you too are hunting by proxy. {Stole that from Jobycom downthread, but it's a good point}.

And even if you personally don't eat meat, I bet you have friends or family members who do. Do you take issue w/their food consumption?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

144. do you eat only one vegetable a year? argument fail.

[Lorien]

112. + 1,000000000000000. nt

[Tuesday Afternoon]

145. so that means your ancestors were egomaniacs, right? got it.

[Curmudgeoness]

3. Awwwww, how sweet! Being in the Bambi generation,

I have never been able to understand hunting.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

4. hunger. and please, no shit about groceries

city people can be so ignorant. :eyes:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. yeah. plus lamb, goat, cows and chicken are cute too.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

11. yeah. plus lamb, goat, cows and chicken are cute too.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

22. I know, but I'm not addressing people who kill to survive

Ted Nugent and Sarah Palin don't need to kill a goddamned thing in order to survive. They do it because they enjoy killing. Period.

[A Simple Game]

53. Don't be so sure about Ted.

He's living off the residuals for one song. Can't buy too many groceries with what you make off Cat Scratch Fever airplay.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

90. I would venture to guess that everything the top 2% does is for "fun"

I doubt they ever feel an urgent need for anything :shrug:

[LanternWaste]

40. Anyone can be ignorant...

Anyone can be ignorant... regardless of where they live. :shrug:

Preemptive defensive posturing, I imagine.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

44. imagine hunger. and yes, you too can be ignorant but, can you be educated

:shrug:

[Iggo]

94. He asked how they can do it for sport.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

118. I don't know why "they" have decided to call it a "sport". --

he asked why YOU do it. I told him why I do it.

Then he changed it to why do Ted and Sarah do it and I answered that, too.

[Crystal Clarity]

141. Zing! ... Whoosh!

Sorry, not clean enough, TA. It's all supposed to be black and white, ya know ;-)

[Tuesday Afternoon]

119. .

[Tuesday Afternoon]

120. .

[david13]

5. Actually, they don't hunt the fawns. Nor the does. And then they

eat them, when they do get them.
Ain't no different if you get a burger for lunch.
Ever done that?
dc

[MicaelS]

14. Don't know about California

But Texas has Doe tags during deer season.

[david13]

33. I don't know any of the rules. They had a show on tv last night,

CA Fish & Game. They were chasing deer hunting poachers. They got one at his house, he had taken a doe and thrown it in the lake, as he said it was an accidental shot, and he didn't know what to do.
They confiscated his gun, and gave him a court date to appear.
But I do know that the deer herds back east have grown to outrageous sizes, and threaten road traffic a lot.
Cars are wrecked and sometimes the driver killed, and motorcycles, if they hit a deer, it can be fatal.
Plus I also know that the food banks for the needy can be enhanced with the venison.
I don't know about the California venison, but, due to the diet, and the lack of water, it may be raunchy.
The best stuff would possibly be in the farm areas, southern Michigan and others, where the deer are corn fed, or feed on good agricultural product. Better meat that way.
I think there just aren't as many deer hunters as in previous years.
dc

[shanti]

77. i saw that show, it was disgusting

what they did to the PREGNANT does! they were about to give birth any day too, one had twins :( it's only legal to hunt bucks in california.

now wild pigs....all bets are off on them, they are out of control and it's getting worse....and i'm not a hunter or do i know of any.

[TheMightyFavog]

16. Ummmm...

Some parts of the state here in Wisconsin you can only harvest antlerless deer (does or fawns) or you have to purchase a separate tag to be able to harvest a buck depending on which deer management unit you live in.


Besides venison is good! Healthier than beef, and goes good with sauteed mushrooms and onions in a simple red wine sauce. Have more deer meet than your freezer can handle? No problem! Wisconsin hunters can donate excess venison to local food pantries through the Hunt for the Hungry program!

[OmahaBlueDog]

36. Fawns no. Does - sometimes.

If you've seen Midwestern roads lately, a lot of deer get hit because populations are high. Some states are doing "bonus doe" stamps when you get your deer stamp. Others hold a 1-2 day "open doe."

My view. If you use the meat (either donate it, or have a locker shop make it into deer jerky/meat whistles/ or roasts) then I have no issue. I despise trophy hunters who take the head off a buck and leave the carcass to rot.

[david13]

39. That is the morality to it. The doe situation is based on the fact

that the herds are exploding. The deer numbers are way up from previous years, and I don't know all the reasons, but I do believe one major reason is fewer hunters today.
And if you are providing food for your own, or someone else, particularly the needy, it really is no different than buying a hamburger.
And too many deer is not a good thing. Unless they are well behaved deer that stay on the sidewalk.
dc
<>

[jmowreader]

68. In Idaho they hunt does

In Idaho we have "antlered" and "antlerless" seasons. We also have units (the state is divided into 78 regions called units, and hunting is managed on a unit-by-unit basis for each of the species legal to hunt here) that restrict you to 2-point deer, 3-point deer or whatever the Department of Fish and Game needs to thin out this year. In some units there is no antlered-deer season, others there is no antlerless season.

[AngryAmish]

70. Gotta kill the does

Population is exploding in Illinois and Wisco.

[LynneSin]

95. Thank you. And for many farmers that cute animal is nothing more than a pest

Farmers lose alot of money each year because of deer overpopulation. It wouldn't be so bad if they just ate a bit but if they run thru the crops they damage the plants. Farmers will gladly open their farms to hunters who can help thin out the herds.

I have no problem with hunting and I love venison meet, a very healthy red meat. But I do have a problem when people hunt for 'sport' just to say they killed something with no intent on actually using what they killed. One deer will supply my mother & husband with plenty of meat to use for the year and even enough to give me a few deer patties and steaks. And my stepfather will use everything including the organs.

I do know of some soup kitchens that will game that was killed by a hunter who doesn't really want to use the animal he killed. For a soup kitchen/homeless shelter that's alot of good food available to those who do not have enough to eat.

[alphafemale]

6. Even if this were true it would also be more honest than pulling up to a window...

...and saying two bacon double cheeseburgers please.

[Odin2005]

7. Ya shoot the adult males, not the fawns.

:eyes:

They aren't so cute when they are vandalizing gardens.

[csziggy]

19. Or when they are so over crowded they are no longer healthy

Our resident deer herd is getting too large and we have several bucks with uneven antlers that indicate either inbreeding or malnutrition. It needs to be thinned. The coyotes may take care of that, but we don't want resident coyotes. So I've asked some locals to take a few deer to reduce the population.

It will not be sport hunting - the meat will be used for food and there is good reason to take out a few individuals to keep the entire herd healthy.

And then maybe I can go back to feeding the birds. Now I can't because the deer will eat 30-50 pounds of bird seed overnight. Bird seed is not what they should be eating and I cannot afford to feed them that much, anyway.

[hedgehog]

47. I second what you say. Protein on the hoof is going to be harvested one

way or another. I don't even mind the Eastern coyotes so much because they stay away from humans right in my neck of the woods. I do worry about big cats returning to the area. Reportedly, they aren't always shy around humans.

I'll take my neighbor and his sons out back during hunting season over big cats every time!

[csziggy]

57. The coyotes here are too used to humans just like the deer

Last week the coyotes were right outside the house howling. While the mare and foal were being fed, a pair ran across their pasture. THAT worries me!

But they are coming where the deer are comfortable and the deer have no respect at all for humans. They come right up to the house to graze in the flower beds. As I said they eat the bird seed and I can go out on the porch to yell at them and the deer just stand there kinda like, "Hey, quit bugging me - I'm eating here!"

As I said, it is time to thin the herd. If the deer stay away from the house, so will the coyotes. The deer have a good amount of area here to roam and graze - we've got sixty acres, a neighbor has fifty and they can roam through the neighborhood behind us and get to thousands of acres of plantation land.

Speaking of big cats, there was one wandering the area about ten, fifteen years ago. Two of Ted Turner's pets got loose from his plantation over in Jefferson County and one came this way. A local forester saw one cross the highway less than a mile away. One got struck by a car on the interstate and the other one was captured, so they are no longer wandering.

[hedgehog]

60. We had a neighbor about half a mile away who used to keep tigers.

When I ran out of other things to worry about, I used to wonder just how secure his fences were!

[csziggy]

66. Yeah, aside from the ethics of keeping the big cats confined at all

The problem of keeping the neighbors safe should be enough to stop individuals from owning them. Big cats belong in their native environment - if endangered there, they should be kept in a very secure location. But private ownership for "pets" is just stupid.

[we can do it]

157. +1000000000000000

and I'd love to see the food bank full instead dead animals all over the side of the road.

[jobycom]

8. Some people like to play with their food before eating it.

Others just want someone else to take care of the hard part.

[davsand]

9. There would be lots more vegetarians if we all had to kill and clean our own meat.

We all go to the market and our meat comes on nice little plastic trays with mini-diapers under it to absorb any extra blood that might leak out. That is a whole lot easier than killing it, gutting, and skinning it.

I am an omnivore. I have hunted and cleaned game, and I am fully aware of the death that is a part of any flesh we consume. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people that have no understanding of that process. They never stop to think about the life that ended when that animal became "meat."




Laura

[LynneSin]

96. Been there done that

I don't do it anymore, but I've helped clean a pig for a pig roast, clean deer, clean fish you name it. Never impacted me except I won't eat Scrapple anymore. What they put in scrapple is :scared:

[jobycom]

102. Me, too. Which is why I'm vegetarian.

:P

Yeah, not the only reason. But it probably played a part in it.

[LynneSin]

110. Never phased me that way but I have no desire to do it again

But if I could, I would rather eat the meat that was gathered by a hunter like my stepfather than to buy that overprocessed garbage meat produced by the Meat Processing Corporations. At least with what my stepfather kills I know that it's not overstuffed with anti-biotics, growth hormones and god knows what else.

[Deep13]

105. I think there would be fewer.

No one would personify food animals. Remember, it wasn't too long ago that most people did have to prepare their own meat and few were vegetarians.

[Archae]

12. You know what happens when hunting gets outlawed?

The deer population explodes, and they end up getting killed anyway.

[boppers]

13. The wolves and lions and other predators would keep that in check.

Oh, wait, we killed them off.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

23. The deer still have natural predator enemies.

Cars and trucks.

:hi:

And, to be fair, starvation. "Doe permits" are a state's way of managing the size of the herds.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

24. Deleted, double-click

duplicate entry, doh.

[Odin2005]

32. To be fair, the first natives killed off our lions 10,000 years ago

;-)

[boppers]

50. I saw a mountain lion as recently as two years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cougar

[boppers]

55. They're cute too!

[Odin2005]

58. Those aren't actual lions, though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Lion

There used to be cheetahs and camels here, too.

[hedgehog]

48. Actually, in the East, coyotes are moving into the niche previously

taken by wolves. The Eastern coyotes are getting bigger than their Western cousins. At some point, I think we will be redefining "wolf" and "coyote".

[Xithras]

87. I've never understood that line of thinking in the slightest.

Deer killed by human = bad.

Deer killed by wolf = good.

Human = artificial predator.

Wolf = natural predator.

News flash...humans were designed by evolution to act as the apex terrestrial predator. We didn't invent ourselves, and we weren't dropped here from some alien planet. We aren't violating any natural laws by hunting...we are abiding by the laws of nature as they were originally designed. Humans, like all other animals on this planet, have a natural niche. We share it with lions, bears, sharks, and every other predator on this planet. It's what we do, because it's what nature designed us to do.

The only difference between us an other predators is that we have a conscience. We feel bad about the animals we kill, and we generally try to spare the momma's and the babies as much as possible. Trust me...NONE of the other predatory animals on this planet make that distinction. If a fawn in a forest in going to come face to face with a predator, that fawn would much prefer to see a human downwind than a wolf or bear. She'll be able to walk away from the encounter with the human.

As for the big meaty buck, he doesn't care who killed him. Dead is dead, whether by fang or firearm.

[TheMightyFavog]

17. My story on why I support deer hunting.

My father worked for the Department of Natural Resources. Normally, he was a wildland firefighter, but during the winter months he helped out the conservation wardens. One winter afternoon I went with him to a call from a little old lady about a deer in her yard. That deer, a yearling was dying of starvation. It could not even summon the energy to eat the corn the lady put out for it, let alone run away. The animal was beyond help. My father had to euthanize it with his .357 revolver.

In my book, a relatively quick death by gunshot beats the prospect of a long slow death by starvation.

As long as hunting is properly managed, well regulated, and strictly policed to ensure these regulations are followed, I have no problem with it.

[TheMightyFavog]

18. Archae's picture may be a worst-case scenario as far as car-deer crashes go...

But even your run of the mill car-deer crash can have bad consequences, especially to the rural working poor who depend on their cars to get them to and from work. (No public tranist at all up here, folks!) Bodywork's not cheap, and few rural working poor can only afford the barest legal minimum insurance coverage (some of these folks still risk going uninsured even after car insurance was mandated in Wisconsin last summer) they can't afford the kinds of insurance policies that would cover fixing up your front end after a car-deer collision. Often times they end up either having to shell out hundred of dollars they can't afford to get their car fixed, or if the collision was severe enough, even have to spend a couple grand on a new beater.

[david13]

72. What if that was a motorcycle? Many of our brethren have been killed that way. dc

[jobycom]

103. Only outlaws will have huntings?

[WillParkinson]

150. Let's look at it from a different perspective...

What happens when hunting people gets outlawed? More cars on the road, more people unable to feed themselves, and they end up getting killed or killing others.

People do not own the planet and, to date, have done a piss poor job of learning to live together as best as they are able.

[krispos42]

15. When it's an adult.

I'll also note that unlike most supermarket and restaurant meat, the above deer is organically fed, roamed the wild free of pens or cages, and received no hormones or antibiotics. It had a pretty good chance to make and raise children, as well.

These are all things that I've read on DU as being desirable and nutritionally, morally and ethically superior to the factory-farm alternative.

And death from a hunting rifle is usually (but not always) fairly swift.


:shrug:

We've eliminated their natural predators to protect ourselves and our livestock. We've vastly increased their food supply due to massive amounts of cultivated land. So we, one way or another, have to step in and take the place of the predators we've eliminated.

[Mopar151]

21. From a wildlife management point of view

Having a predator population that kills humanely, is controllable and manageable, and will pay for the privilege is an ideal situation.

[Crystal Clarity]

26. Ewww. I've actually heard and seen that happen. (a predator after a deer)

I heard yelping coyotes very close and coming closer. Then I heard the unmistakable, The-thump, The-thump of a dear running by my bedroom window w/the yelping coyotes right behind it. I could tell that they had gotten it somewhere in the woods behind my house. Very close.

My SO and I went out the next day and found the remains. Wow that was awful! Not much left of it. I can only hope it that it didn't take very long to die, because it'd be a horrible way to go. Being torn apart like that.

I don't hunt but my SO does. It really helps on a tight food budget to have a freezer full of deer meat. I figured out once what it cost us per/llb.... 18 cents! Plus, it's very good-for-you food. And no, my SO would not kill Bambi... :eyes:

I bet if that poor deer I heard being killed by coyotes had a choice on what way it'd rather go, it'd choose a hunter's clean shot, as opposed to being so weakened by starvation that dumb coyotes are able to get it.

[Crystal Clarity]

28. Too late to edit, but I just now noticed

that I spelled what should have been 'deer', as 'dear'. :rofl: It ought to fall under the 'who cares' category, but it's such a ridiculous mistake, I couldn't help but poke fun at it.

Sorry, to interupt... carry on. :patriot:

[MilesColtrane]

20. Don't kid yourself, Jimmy.

That fawn would kill you and your entire family if it had the chance.

[hobbit709]

25. I ate what I killed back when I still hunted.

I don't hunt any more because of physical limitations.
None of the hunters I know hunt for "sport".
And all of us look down on the trophy hunters.

[HopeHoops]

27. At the point when you get the paycheck for going on TV to prove you CAN'T SHOOT WORTH SHIT!

At least that's what makes it fun for Palin.

[Brickbat]

29. It's possible to be cute and tasty; many animals do it. Personally, I'd shoot something with a

little more meat on it. Om nom nom.

[Swampguana]

30. There's no need to hunt

We have enough food available all over this country there is no need to hunt. We're doing enough damage to the wildlife hunting should be illegal.

[LynneSin]

97. You're kidding me right?

There is PLENTY of reason for hunting and it's the farmers that raise your vegetables that want hunters to kill the game on their property.

Deer population on your farm can be very very destructive and costly to farmers because all those deer need to eat and what better way to find food then the 'open buffet' on a farm. Most farmers are ok with a few deer but if the population is not thinned out there is competition for food, alot of profits destroyed by too many deer eating crops and running thru the crops (which breaks the plants and destroy it) and over the winter, with little food available - ultimately starvation for many of the deer.

There are laws that regulate how deer can be hunted to ensure that the population does not breed out of control nor ends up on the verge of extinction either. I come from a family that not only hunts but also farms, so I've had alot of background in both areas. Perhaps you don't want Bambi killed but the farmer that raises those veggies sees Bambi as nothing more than a vermit eating the profits.

[Inchworm]

133. A friend's farm had so many deer

One was killed with a tractor moving hay (one kind of like that picture in OP).

After a li'l debate he had to get a permit to kill several. I think it was 20 within a month.

They do cause a lot of destruction when unchecked and umm.. hec, eat the cow's food.

It is kinda cool for grandson to be able to go on a motorcycle ride and see 75-100 deer though.

:hi:

[Swampguana]

31. There's no need to hunt

We have enough food available all over this country there is no need to hunt. We're doing enough damage to the wildlife hunting should be illegal.

[david13]

74. You're Canadian and you're against hunting? What next,

you are going to come out against hockey?
No seriously, over the years I have known a few people who, when they had no food and no money, got the squirrel gun out, and went out, and ... they ate squirrel for a while.
I do not mean in the city.
Many of the hunters donate their deer, within season, licensed and all, to the food bank.
dc

[WillParkinson]

34. My favorite part is when they talk about how quick a gunshot is...

I've heard many stories from my dad, when he used to hunt, about deer that were shot and ran only to bleed to death or, sadly, disappeared into the woods and not knowing what happened to them.

A few years back I made some people at work very angry when they were discussing Chai Vang, a man who killed several hunters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chai_Vang). I asked them if they thought, in their last minutes of life, the hunters realized what it must be like to be a deer and be hunted down to die?

Yeah, that didn't win me any friends.

[flvegan]

37. +1000

[MicaelS]

42. Yeah, I'll bet it didn't...

And that comment is quite ironic, considering your Mencken quote in your sig.

[Mad_Dem_X]

99. +1,000

[krispos42]

121. I'm sure the irony struck them, although not as hard as the bullets. n/t

[yawnmaster]

158. As slow as a gunshot *sometimes* may be, it's faster than starving to death. eom

[quakerboy]

35. It comes along with

Hunting these



http://www.loupiote.com/photos/91957994.shtml






And I do not think there are all that many who do it purely or even secondarily for sport. Of those I know, most who hunt do it for a variety of reasons, meat and "its what we do" being probably the predominant reasons, with secondary strains of "its what men do(including hints of male bonding between those friends and family too manly to hug another man)", "what else am I going to do on vacation" and self justification of gun ownership also common.

I only know one person who hunts for sport, a father of a college friend, with a house full of trophy heads from every continent. Corporate bigwig with some personal issues. Headed to Africa or wherever on every vacation to go kill something. Seriously doubt he ever cleaned or used any of it, or did anything himself after pulling the trigger. But I guess when you can look at your life's work, and see that it was all empty, possibly even evil, and yet you are still under someone else's power, someone you can clearly see has even less scruples than yourself, you have to do something to make it ok in your own brain.

But I would guess that sport hunters make up less than 1% of hunters. I suspect the shows about it are so available because people who are hunting for cultural or meat reasons fondly imagine having the freedom and resources to do it for sport.

[OmahaBlueDog]

38. OK, I'll answer

1. All of the edible members of the animal kingdom look cute or handsome to someone.

2. Cute or handsome as they may be, many animals are also often viewed as a nuisance (deer eating plants and crops) or a danger to livestock or people (coyotes, sometimes bears).

3. I have nothing against anyone who chooses not to eat meat or fish for moral reasons. However, in the same manner that I don't want to hear about the virtues of any particular religon by evangelicals, I also have no patience for those who want to impose their morality regarding meat, or animal products such as fur and leather.

4. I don't hunt. I know many who do. It is considered sport because, even under the best of circumstances, it is often not easy.

5. Hunting is as much about the bonding experience as anything. Getting up early. Positioning yourself in a deer stand in the morning twilight. Trying not to make noise. It is often an activity associated with family - fathers & sons; brothers; dads, uncles & cousins; friends. Stephen Ambrose writes about hunting with his dad and members of his unit from WW II.

- Can you do the same things with a camera as a gun? Except for the eating part afterward, sure.

6. Like many aspects of life and society, a small minority are what causes any group to get a bad name. That's true with hunters, priests, anti-war protesters, little league coaches, boy scout leaders, college basketball coaches, and those who supported Hillary Clinton in 2008. Most hunters are not vile spewing gun nuts. Most hunters I know are angered by laws that impact them negatively, in spite of the fact that they've been continually responsible with their firearms, and have never broken any laws with respect to their weapons.

7. If you don't like what goes on in hunting, I doubt you'd fare well in a slaughter facility either. I have been to slaughter facilities, and viewed the spectacle from the pens, through the kill box, to the "harvesting", through the chiller, then to the fabrication area, and on to where the boxed meat leaves for stores and restaurants, and combo bins of trimmings and organs leave for pet food plants, lunch met plants, export, or rendering. It's an efficient, if ugly, process. Most of the people I've met in that business are decent business people with no desire to see animals suffer unnecessarily. They spare those of us who eat meat from the arduous and time consuming process of having to hunt for all of the meat that we eat, and ensure that it is readily available at reasonable prices.

- If you feel eating meat is wrong, then discussing any of this is eactly like discussing the legality of abortion -- an unwinnable argument that ultimately hinges on one's view of morality.

OK - rant over

[MicaelS]

43. Great post, exactly my feelings n/t

[Tuesday Afternoon]

45. plus a brazillion

[littlewolf]

46. Thank you ... my feelings exactly ..... and I do hunt and fish ....

the bonding is a big part of it ... as well as the food part ...

[hedgehog]

49. The neighbor who hunts my land goes out with a camera

when it's not hunting season. He posts my property and keeps strangers out, and gives me a share of his kill. As far as I'm concerned, I'm getting the better of the deal!

[HERVEPA]

75. Going out to kill an animal. Great way to bon with your kid

[OmahaBlueDog]

82. Many people certainly think so.

[PeaceNikki]

83. It's far better than stuffing factory-farmed hamburgers full of shit into their holes.

[HERVEPA]

93. Or, they could be vegetarians, like my kids and grandkids (nt)

Why do some of you folks assume that people who speak against hunting are not vegetarians?

[Badfish]

88. Such a long post that never addresses the issue of ..

killing for fun.

You explain how it can be sport , and or bonding , but when does it become fun to kill an animal ?

[Crystal Clarity]

89. Perhaps, like me, this poster

does not understand the mindset of people who kill an animal solely for 'fun'. It's kind of hard to explain the behaviors of people that you personally cannot relate to.

Maybe for the answer to that question, you should be asking people who are actually are out there killing an animal 'just for fun'. Maybe I missed something, but there appears to be none of that type in this entire thread.

[OmahaBlueDog]

139. I don't think it's "Fun" in the sense of playing a game. I think it's more "sense of accomplishment"

The OP described it as fun. I think many of the activities surrounding the hunt are fun, but the killing itself brings more of a sense of satisfaction or accomplishment than anything. It would be the same for fishing. Drinking on the boat with your pals is fun; bringing in the wahoo/walleye/grouper/marlin/trout/bass/salmon is more of a sense of job-well-done.

[Lucian]

108. Ah, nothing like bonding with your kids than taking the life of something.

Warms the cockles of my heart.

:eyes:

When I bond with my nieces and nephews, I sit down with them and color. I don't kill things for the hell of it.

[OmahaBlueDog]

140. So, you don't fish with your kids?

Just asking.

[LanternWaste]

41. I imagine a lot of people get off on killing animals for sport

I imagine a lot of people get off on killing animals for sport. No one I'd hang around with, mind you-- too many accidents seem to happen.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

51. As cute as they are, you have to look at it from a preservation standpoint.

You have to thin the herd because they don't have enough natural predators to do it. There is not enough food, and they become a hazard (and people start hitting them on the highway) when their numbers get out of control. Then they start starving and dying off in droves, and that isn't good either. I know a lot of people who hunt deer in the winter, and use the meat all year. One person that I know donates half of the meat to a needy family and they keep the rest. Sure, sometimes antlers end up on the wall, but a lot of the people I know use it to feed their families. I have never understood hunting to be a bad thing. But I'm not from the land of poachers and people who hunt merely for sport.
Duckie

[jobycom]

106. Texas has a briazillion hunters and a brazillion deer hit by cars.

Thinning the herd doesn't reduce the number of deer on the highways. Deer are driven to roadways because the shoulders are good grazing land. It has been cleared, and the water runoff from the road collects there.

Natural predators aren't the biggest factor in the size of the heard. The land has to be able to support them. When a deer herd reaches capacity, they stop reproducing, they die off faster from illness, and nature evens it out. The large suburban deer population is due a lot more to the ready made snack packs most people call gardens. Landscaping greatly improves the land's ability to support them, so deer thrive. Around here they keep having hunts, or having deer poisoned or crated away. Never helps. It's like trying to lessen the water level in a pond by scooping the water out. Might work for a short time, but eventually whatever filled the hole in the first place will fill it again, and then it will even out again at about the same level.

I'm not against hunting. As long as people are going to eat meat (and that may not be as long as people expect, given the expense of raising meat and rising food costs worldwide), hunting is as good a way to kill the poor beastie as a sledgehammer in an abertoire. Maybe better. The deer has a good life until a few minutes before its death. I'd just rather see hunters defend themselves by saying "If you eat meat, you are a hunter, too, even if by proxy.

[Kaleva]

54. Hunting has replaced wolves and other predators in controlling deer population.

Without population control, what one will see is a large increase in the deer herd when the food supply is ample and winters are mild. When food supply runs short and winters are severe, there will a massive die-off and it may take years for the deer population to return to normal levels.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

59. Pennsylvania still holds pigeon shoots which are beyond barbaric.

Children are even urged to participate as "wringers". You can guess what that is. Good old PA, party like it's 1799. If anyone actually considers this a "sport", then they might be in need of professional help.

Excerpt:

http://www.care2.com/causes/animal-welfare/blog/pennsylvania-pigeon-shoots/

The purpose?

Good question. It appears as though the only answer is… because they can!

To start, pigeons are placed into mechanical launches that sit about 30 yards away from the humans holding guns. The birds are propelled from the launcher into the air for target practice. Some will be shot while they are airborne; others are shot while on the ground.

Most of the birds are not killed quickly. They are more often wounded and left to suffer a lengthy and protracted death through bleeding, broken bones and other injuries. Some birds are even tethered to the ground before a gun is aimed at them, thereby ensuring a kill. Yet
again, ironic that this is considered a sport by many.

http://www.care2.com/causes/animal-welfare/blog/pennsylvania-pigeon-shoots/

Here's a video if you can stomach it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKZWfpjqeKA

[Heidi]

61. Interestingly, most respondents here have evaded the "sport" and "fun" aspects of your query.

Yet, we know for a fact there are those who hunt for sport and/or fun. I don't understand it. But I also don't understand the fun some claim to have grocery shopping.

[Crystal Clarity]

62. Maybe it's because we don't really understand the mindset

of people who do it solely for sport or fun. My SO is always much happier if he gets ours early on in the season. This past year, he got one on opening day which provided for more time to get a house project finished.

Pretty much everyone we know has at least someone (or several people) in the family who hunt. I doubt so many would do it if there wasn't some element of fun to it. However food is the biggest factor by FAR for everyone we know. If it wasn't, they'd be putting in for Moose and Bear permits as well... they don't because neither is very good eating.

This is not to say that there are no 'mighty hunter' types around. I usually see a few every year all decked out in fancy Cabella gear and out-of-state plates. They are often the butt of lots of jokes among the locals. But for every one of them there are easily 100+ of us who depend on a freezer full of venison every year as a supplement to tight food budgets.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

63. but, really -- what isit, that is so hard to understand...

a nice walk in the woods with supper at the end :shrug:

beats chasing a little ball around for 18 holes, right?

[HERVEPA]

76. Well, that sounds pretty callous.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

80. oh dear ... go buy a steroid laden chicken in a store then...

the merits of natural game have already been pointed out in this thread.

[PeaceNikki]

85. Do people think that cows die of happy old age and land on their plates?

:shrug:

I will never understand why anyone who eats meat would or could EVER have the fucking balls to think hunting is callous/bad/mean/terrible/reprehensible.

[HERVEPA]

91. Maybe not. I'm a vegetarian. Next argument please.

[Joe Fields]

127. That's YOUR choice, but please don't sermonize here.

If you can't see or choose not to understand the other side of this issue, then that is your folly.

[WillParkinson]

149. That goes both ways...

Very few understand the other side.

[Joe Fields]

152. then do please explain. I'm all ears. So far, the "other" side

has no argument. They sit on their high horse looking down on us omnivores.

The harvesting and culling of deer is a very necessary act. When deer overpopulate many of them die a horrible death through starvation and disease. If you want to know just who are more passionate about conservation and ACTUALLY practice it, you need look no further than hunters.

BTW, I do not hunt, but at least I see the need for it.

[WillParkinson]

153. I don't look down on omnivores...

I do not decide for anyone else what they eat.

I do, however, marvel at the fact that people can claim that they need to cull 'x' animal because of overpopulation. Meanwhile the human population continues to explode and the resources we have are very finite. I never hear anyone talking about culling the weak humans - those who are starving and cannot care for themselves. Those who are weakened by disease that will never get better.

So, no, I don't look down on omnivores, herbivores or carnivores. I do look askew at those who use excuses why we must maintain their populations for the limited resources available to them while we ourselves cannot or will not.

[Joe Fields]

155. I marvel at people who think I can wave a magic fucking wand

and cause the population to drop to sustainable levels.

I just explained a few reasons as to why it is necessary for deer populations to be managed, and your argument is that I, Joe Fields have no right to tell you those reasons, until I get a handle on the human population.

by the way, I'm 54 and all through procreating, so maybe you could direct your sermon to those a little younger and more fertile than me. Also, I am curious, what kind of a solution do you propose? Logan's Run? Soylent Green?
lol

[WillParkinson]

156. My sermon...

I answered the question that you asked. I do not expect you, Joe Fields, to solve the problem. I just do not agree with the argument that we need to be the stewards of the planet considering our track record thus far. I also never said you had no right to tell me your reasons. I said that people who consider that a valid answer need to expand it and look at all animals, human-kind included. We are the ones who are responsible for more disease and starvation for most creatures than any deer.

As for my solution? I wish I had one. I wish I could make people see what they're doing to the planet. I can't even get them to recycle at work.

I am more than willing to agree to disagree on this (or most) topics. As I said, this was what I believe. I do not expect anyone else to subscribe to my train of thought.

[Joe Fields]

160. You answered nothing. I was looking for a solution from the other side.

No solution was provided by you. We ARE the stewards of the planet. We may not do a great job, but there is effort made by us to do so, and it is a good thing. I don't care what people eat, as long as they do have something to eat. I loathe when vegetarians look down their nose at meat eaters. Just a problem I have, even though I rarely dwell on it.

[WillParkinson]

163. As I said...

I do not have a solution. As I also said, I do not dictate what people eat. I'd prefer they make more informed choices, but that's my opinion on the subject.

And sorry to say, I've had meat eaters look down their noses at me and my food for many years. "Yuck, how can you eat that? You need to eat meat to get complete proteins." Etc.

Fortunately, though, those people are very few and far between.

[Joe Fields]

166. That is not what you directed to me originally.

I don't look down my nose at anybody. But you made it sound as though I was in the wrong for pointing out a fact of life, while not addressing a whole other issue.

If you are going to argue with me, please stay on topic. Do not change the argument.

I learn from other people, but only if they have something valuable to say regarding the specific topic of conversation.

[WillParkinson]

167. Excuse me?

Your original comment was to someone who said they were vegetarian. You told them not to sermonize. Their reply wasn't even directed at you. "If you can't see or choose not to understand the other side of this issue, then that is your folly."

My comment, which was directed at you, was about people not trying to understand each other, hence 'goes both ways'.

You then said, 'then do please explain. I'm all ears. So far, the "other" side has no argument. They sit on their high horse looking down on us omnivores.'

You were the one who said they sit on their high horse looking down on omnivores. I never said that I was looking down on anyone. My original point was that neither side was willing to hear the other because both sides are sure they are in the right.

My further discussion was about your point of the necessity of culling animals to prevent disease and starvation. People are responsible for the problem. They have taken the land the animals use. They've wiped out the natural predators of the animals. They poison the environment that everyone depends on.

People breed far more than the majority of animals and are responsible for the majority of woes on the planet. Many are starving and diseased but people seem to think they're above the animals, forgetting they, too, are animals.

You asked me what my solution was. I already said I do not have one. The best I can come up with is education. Educate everyone to understand their part in the ecosystem. But, see, there's a problem there, too. Because then you're 'indoctrinating' people and certain types (mostly Republicans) will fight that tooth and nail.

As I said earlier, we'll have to agree to disagree. Neither of us will change the mind of the other so it's best to just shake hands and walk away.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

135. go suck a vegan hot dog then. next smart ass remark, please.

[david13]

71. Sport or fun may not be the proper words. One way or another

it is the food gathering instinct. A gene. Primal urge and all that.
When I come in with a (cloth, GreenPeace) bag of groceries from the store, the cats gather round, and stick their head into the bag.
They understand that I am the largest cat, and the food gatherer.
They appreciate it. They smell the bag, even tho' they can't smell inside the cans.
dc

[HERVEPA]

92. There are primal urges that we can choose not to follow.

[david13]

115. Uh, yeah, I know. I didn't say I was a hunter, did I? dc

[HERVEPA]

136. I didn't say you were.

[Joe Fields]

128. Are you telling us that you have claimed the moral high ground?

:wtf:

[HERVEPA]

137. OK

[Joe Fields]

161. You must think you are really special.

lol

[Odin2005]

159. People have hunted for 2 million years, so of course people find it enjoyable.

[Sky Masterson]

65. I hate the thought but I understand the need.

It is a necessary evil.I couldn't do it..I can't kill..
What I really don't get are the assholes who photograph themselves with the big ol mean deer they shot from 30+ feet.
Look it's pretty..And I killed it!! :party: :sarcasm:

[jmowreader]

67. You DON'T hunt that for sport...

mainly because it's illegal in every state with a deer season to shoot fawns.

[triguy46]

81. Informative posting from Cornell University:

Too many deer.

snip..."Overall, public attitudes toward deer are becoming more negative as deer populations increase (Swihart and DeNicola, 1997). Public concerns include crop damage, damage to landscape plants, deer/car collisions, transmission of Lyme Disease, and effects of high deer populations on habitat quality for both deer and other wildlife species."

http://wildlifecontrol.info/deer/pages/deerpopulationfacts.aspx

[On the Road]

Much More Humane

to let it starve to death.

[On the Road]

84. Much More Humane

to let it starve to death.

[Skip Intro]

86. Been asking myself that question for a long time. It is "fun" to some. To most? I wonder. nt

[Mad_Dem_X]

98. It's only a sport if

both parties know they're playing. (Some comedian said that, forget who.)

[Joe Fields]

100. If you live in the city, it's hard to understand, unless you have an open mind.

[Kali]

101. I don't hunt

but we let people hunt on the ranch. One family has been coming here for 3 generations. They set up a big camp and the whole family has what looks like a nice reunion. I assume they are having fun while trying to fill a freezer at the same time. Sometimes they bring us tamales a few weeks later.

I think what is "fun" is the whole procedure of going out in nature and accomplishing something rather primal, even if modern weaponry is involved. I don't really have a problem with it. I do hate the yahoos that drive around on ATVs and drink all day, but even for them there seems to be an ample supply of deer.

Oh and as several have pointed out, nobody wants a fawn - not legal, no meat, not even trophy worthy.

[Deep13]

104. Imagine it's more than 18 inches away...

...and not half buried in snow. Now imagine it is an adult that can outrun, evade and out-think you in the woods. Now imagine it only comes out at dawn and dusk and you can only shoot in daylight. Now imagine you have no clear idea of where it is. Finally, pretend Disney didn't give you the idea growing up that wild animals are your pets or friends.

Cool photo, BTW.

[RandomThoughts]

113. On the friends topic

even if not, still got the head on fire thing going for you :D So it works out anyways.

Have I mentioned beer and travel money? :D

It is still due.

Blinded by the Light by Manfred Mann's Earth Band
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg8cDmi7-U8

[Deep13]

117. Head on fire?

:shrug:

[Enthusiast]

109. Yup. You don't

understand.

[Old Troop]

114. I think it's built into the DNA. I don't hunt, but understand the folks who

do. If you're not a boozed up idiot, I think there's something primal about it. I take the train to work with a woman who is about 60, somewhat heavy, who hunts regardless of the weather. Her family eats all that she shoots. She finds great satisfaction in what she does.

[Skittles]

116. it's what cowards do

[Kaleva]

122. Would you call Native Americans cowards?

As is the case with most of us, the need to hunt deer for food is no where as important as it used to be. However, the Treat of 1837 granted the various Objibwe tribes retention of hunting, gathering and fishing rights in the lands ceded to the US.

" ARTICLE 5.

The privilege of hunting, fishing, and gathering the wild rice, upon the lands, the rivers and the lakes included in the territory ceded, is guaranteed to the Indians, during the pleasure of the President of the United States."

http://www.airpi.org/pubs/1837.html

For decades, the states ignored the terms of the treaty regarding the fishing and hunting rights and often arrested and/or harassed those Ojibwe caught fishing and/or hunting outside reservation lands. In the 1970's, the tribes began an effort to regain their rights in the courts. It took years but they finally won.

I don't know the particulars but in a talk with a cousin of my wife's who is Ojibwe, he told me he was allowed to take a maximum of 7 deer in a year. He is also allowed to fish anywhere at anytime of the year in Upper Michigan. The Ojibwe tribes have worked out compacts with Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota in which work with the states in setting harvest limits for tribal members but the tribes themselves have the final say in what those limits are.

To their credit, the tribes realize that an unlimited hunting of deer by their members is not sustainable and thus they work with various state fish & wildlife agencies in determining limits.

[Skittles]

123. anyone who kills for FUN is a COWARD - END OF STORY

[Kaleva]

124. I' ll take that as a Yes to my question.

[Skittles]

125. done

[OmahaBlueDog]

146. So, sport fishermen are cowards?

Even if they eat the fish?

[Joe Fields]

129. have you ever in your life eaten meat?

[NuclearDem]

126. When deer populations get out of control, I fully support allowing hunting

If you're starving, then it's fine to hunt.

If you just go out and hunt for fun, I can't reason with you. I just think it's wrong.

[WillParkinson]

148. If you're starving, then it's fine to hunt...

Survival of the fittest and all.

That's why I wonder when people will start to realize that other people are made of meat, too. So many starving millions in the world who seem to be able to differentiate between one breathing, sentient creature and another.

[Inchworm]

132. Had some deer meat this evening

Thank the dog for deer.

Noone kills babies like that.. not enough meat.

:D

[Highway61]

134. Hunting sucks.

Period.

[OmahaBlueDog]

138. Dear Skinner, EarlG, & Mods: The Lounge??!!! Really????

This doesn't seem like a really "Loungey" topic or thread. JMHO.

Consideration should be given to moving this back to GD.

[HuckleB]

142. I hadn't seen this until it was moved.

I really do not understand what GD is for anymore. So many topics seem to be removed so very randomly. And general discussion seems like it should contain almost anything and everything.

[Glassunion]

143. Absolutely adorable... I'll tell you how I hunt for what you call "Fun" or "Sport"...

I never hunted deer but I will hunt elk. I personally think that they are tastier than beef and one bull can put food in my freezer for quite some time. I have only started hunting in the past year.

I do not hunt the Baby:


I hunt the Bull:


As far as the vast majority of hunters go, most do it for food. They do stock their own freezer and give the extras away for food banks. In fact there are many processors who will do this for little to no fee.

"Sport" to me is an an active diversion requiring physical exertion. In the course of hunting there is quite a bit of physical exertion. So you have an activity that requires one to do most of the following: hike, navigate, camp, stalk, kill, clean and haul.

"Fun" is not at all in the act of killing the animal. The fun for me, is the hiking, camping and bull-shitting with my friends when we hunt. Fun is when my uncle fell through some ice up to his crotch. Fun is when I sat in bear scat to tie my boots. There is nothing fun about killing and cleaning an animal. To me that part is quite disturbing. My goal, is simply to put the animal down cleanly so I can put food in my freezer.

[panader0]

147. I fully understand the hunting for need argument.

No one has mentioned the people who spend a lot more to go hunting than meat costs in the store.
I know many fellow construction workers who take a week or two off of work to go two hundred miles to hunt.
This after paying for the permits. So, with the lost wages, permits, guns, ammo, camping gear, gas and more, they could have bought a freezer and a half beef. The economics vary from here in So. Az to places like Michigan, but if you spend more money hunting than you would to shop, where's the good?

[RandomThoughts]

151. On the topic of where is the good

They refuse to send beer and travel money to restore that balance



not my songs
So they are spiraling
(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0DlW2Hbyew

Still don't believe about soul sleep?

Constant Sorrow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krwywj_gIjk

That is from sorrowman from Isen guard.
)Lock

note how they smear song and drinking. They also have cameo of 'river' from tv show serenity. It also smears the beauty of women


My view!!!!

Faith Hill - Breathe (Video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCmsZUN4r_s

Skillet "Awake and Alive" Music Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-iB9qKZ2HI

Blinded by the Light by Manfred Mann's Earth Band
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg8cDmi7-U8


not actors fault they are used by script. Note the Boston reference and how the brother character was lying as was other guy.
http://movieclips.com/KkeEF-o-brother-where-art-thou-movie-big-dan-teague/



if someone thinks that insults Boston talk to who made the move and who is smearing drink and song and has not sent me money for beer and travel.

Cheers Opening
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCe7aITZvJc

[OwnedByFerrets]

154. All hunters are Neanderthals

[Joe Fields]

162. I'm not surprised you said that, since ferrets own you.

roflmao...

[Kaleva]

164. We like to play God when it comes to animals

Years ago, I had a friend who worked as a volunteer at a animal shelter. She told me that she could tell right away when an cat or dog was brought in if it was very likely to be adopted or it would be destroyed. Those that were cute and affectionate would survive while those that were ugly, had a personality disorder or physical problem would not. The doe in the pic is exceptionally cute. If it were a pic of a mean spirited possum, then I think most here would not care about it.

Late last year, my wife decided she wanted a cat and saw one on line that was at an animal shelter some 90 miles away. She asked if I would care if she were to get it and I said it didn't matter to me. The cat had been adopted by three times by others but they all returned her. It wasn't long after my wife got the cat that she said she wasn't happy with it and wanted to return the animal to the shelter. It wasn't friendly and would hiss at us when we got near it. It also loved to piss and crap on the rugs in the bathroom for some reason. Despite that, I refused to agree on returning the cat and told my wife we must adopt to the animal. Removing the rugs from the bathroom solved the crapping and pissing problem and in time the cat became friendly with us and now even sleeps in bed with us at night.

I used to hunt but no more as I've had my fill of killing animals and have done it recent times only when the dog or cat has been hit by a car and is in extreme agony. Even then I hate to do it. Hell, I even live trap the mice in our home and bring them to a barn and release them and I'll leave some food for them. Bees or wasps that get into the house, I'll catch them in a bottle and let them go outside.

[Hippo_Tron]

165. I don't know, but I do know that it's fun to eat meat

And that meat is often particularly tasty when hunters bring it back. So while I don't understand why it would be fun to kill an animal, I do know that I find it fun to feast on its dead body parts. Therefore I'm not going to judge others who think it is fun to kill it.