Algebra and Attitude

[Lionel Mandrake]

When I was in junior high school, I got bad grades in 7th and 8th grade math. I could work all the problems, but I couldn't or wouldn't work them in the approved manner.

For example, I refused to learn the "three cases of percentage". One of those cases involved adding a given percentage to a number. Another case involved subtracting a given percentage from a number. I forget what the third case was. I didn't know which case was which, and what's more, I didn't care. I could work any "word problem" involving percentage, so why should I learn an unnecessary classification scheme for such problems?

My teacher, Miss Almy, wanted me to shut up and follow directions like everyone else.

The last few weeks of 8th grade math was a preview of algebra. I enjoyed it very much and got straight A's in it. Nevertheless, Miss Almy didn't like my attitude and wouldn't recommend me for 9th grade algebra. She asserted, with a straight face, that I should take "general math" in the 9th grade. "General math" was a euphemism; it meant "arithmetic for dummies".

My counselor was ready to rubber-stamp Miss Almy's recommendation and sign me up for "general math".

I didn't know it at the time, but my mother went to bat for me. First she confronted the counselor and persuaded him to look at some of my test scores. He had neglected to do this earlier, because he was busy. Later, my mother confronted the principal, who told her how the counselor had obtained his current position. He had been been a lousy teacher, so the principal had had no other choice than to promote him, in order to get him out of the classroom. (I am not making this up.)

My mother didn't tell me about this at the time, because she didn't want my attitude toward various people at the school to deteriorate any further than it already had.

Thanks to my mother's perseverance, disaster was narrowly averted - I was allowed to take algebra in the 9th grade.

[surrealAmerican]

1. Your mom sounds awesome ...

Your eighth grade math teacher: not so much. Her dislike of you should not have influenced her recommendation. It ought to have been based on your abilities.

[Lionel Mandrake]

3. You are right on both counts.

In those days I knew all the answers and had a lot of contempt for many adults.

Funny how teachers don't respond well to contempt. :shrug:

[Shagbark Hickory]

2. Similar (but not really) situation on my end.

I was terrible at math. I got tutored in high school and finally was able to get the problems right but they always flunked me for not showing my work. Or like you said, not solving it the way they wanted it solved.

This was an expensive college prep school. At some point everyone mysteriously starts making A's and B's. Whatever. So fast forward to college algebra. It's like the first math class you have to take to get anyway. 3 years later and after 8 tries at college algebra I finally said fuck this and dropped out.

Thanks a lot Albert fucking Einstein for ruining my life.

[Lionel Mandrake]

5. You lost me.

Pardon my denseness, but what does Albert Einstein have to do with your life?

[Shagbark Hickory]

6. Sorry, did I say Einstein? No no no, I meant the Babylonians.

Pardon me Mr. Einstein.
Thanks to the Babylonians for ruining my life.
:silly:
I had my subjects confuzzled.

[Lionel Mandrake]

8. Ah yes, the Babylonian captivity,

after which the Jews began to believe in angels, just as most Americans do today.
That must be what ruined your life. :evilgrin:

[RebelOne]

4. I applaud you for wanting to study algebra.

When I was in 9th grade, I made just passing grades in algebra, and to the day I still do not understand it. Trigonometry was easier.

[Lionel Mandrake]

7. Interesting.

If your school was like my school, you had to take geometry and second-year algebra before you took trigonometry. That's a lot of math for someone who doesn't understand 9th grade algebra.

It's true that high school trigonometry was easy. It started with the definitions of the six trigonometric functions (sin, cos, tan, cot, sec, and cosec). Then came derivations of the formulas for the sine and cosine of the sum of two angles. After that came the half-angle formulas, the law of sines, the law of cosines, and not much else. That's really not enough material for a whole semester.

If the textbook writers had added spherical trigonometry and spherical astronomy, then there would have been enough material, but it might have been difficult to find teachers who knew all that stuff.

[RebelOne]

10. Well, I passed trigonometry with flying colors.

I probably attended 9th grade long before you, and school curriculum has undoubtedly changed since then. This was in the '50s. I took geometry, algebra and trigonometry all in the 9th grade. I did not study high school math, as I went to a vocational high school and was studying to become a dental assistant.

[snagglepuss]

14. I'm still wondering why f was at x in the first place but like you I found

trig understandable.

[SwissTony]

9. The right teacher is important

My maths (that's what we call it in Australia) scores were nothing spectacular until I reached my final year in high school. I could do it all, but I wasn't really interested. My teacher in that last year was a guy called Dave. He really inspired me and suddenly maths seemed easy, interesting and fun. So much so, that I majored in mathematical statistics at uni and went on to work as a statistician. I tried chasing him up some years later to say thank you but could never contact him. So, if any of you happen to know a (now-retired) maths teacher called Dave who used to play in ruck for the Willunga Football Club, tell him Joseph is eternally grateful.

I've never met the "three cases of percentage". Why would you need such a classification? Adding and subtracting a percentage to a given quantity are the same operation, so why 'split' them? And I can't imagine what the third case was.

When I make a presentation to, say, medicos, I usually say "I've tried to keep the algebra to a minimum" but I also add a quip such as "How can you live without algebra?" (Aside: I know it's not everybody's cup of tea, but if someone describes e.g. a regression model to me, I can't "see" it until I see the algebraic underpinning).

LM, I'm glad you're mother went in to bat for you. Good on her.

[Lionel Mandrake]

15. You were fortunate to find an inspiring teacher.

I never did, but that didn't stop me from majoring in math in college.

I'm surprised you knew your teacher by his first name. Here the teachers are always addressed as "Mr. Jones", "Miss Smith", "Mrs. Walker", etc. A student in the USA would be disciplined for calling his teacher "Dave".

Thank you for the kind word about my mother.

[SwissTony]

19. We also addressed our teachers as Mister and Mrs/Miss

I addressed them by their given name after I'd left school if I bumped into them, but Mr Richards was never one of them, unfortunately. I only called him Dave when I was cheering him on when he was playing Aussie Rules (everybody called him Dave), but never in any other setting.

[Lionel Mandrake]

21. Thanks for the clarification.

I had assumed you didn't know his last name.

If I now understand you correctly, you can search for a Dave Richards who used to play Aussie Rules (whatever that is).

Good luck. :thumbsup:

[Odin2005]

11. You just summed up my own high school experiences re math.

"I could work all the problems, but I couldn't or wouldn't work them in the approved manner."

Same here.

[mzteris]

13. I brought my geometry teacher to tears

more than once. (She was a rookie teacher...) She couldn't understand how I could keep getting the right answers by working the problems the "wrong way"!

Finally, her supervising teacher came into the classroom and told me I could work the problems any way I wanted, but to stop confusing the teacher and the other students with my "alternative way" discussions... If I really wanted to talk about them, to see him before/after school.

He was the same teacher I had two years later (in an intro to Calc class) who told me as long as I "tried" in his class he'd give me any grade I wanted. I was going to drop because my parents would ground me for making anything less than a "B". I wound up making B's in there anyway, but that's beside the point. His philosophy was teaching was about learning, not about grades. He was an excellent teacher.

I was good with geometry and probability. Algebra, not so much.

[Lionel Mandrake]

16. That's good to know.

I thought I was the only one.

[Brickbat]

12. I tested into algebra in 8th grade (they usually started it in 9th grade) and I was so proud. I got

straight B+ in the class, and the teacher kept telling my mom at conferences that because this was an advanced track, he expected me to get A's and insinuated that I shouldn't be on that track. I stayed on that track for a couple more years suddenly believing that my math skills were ass and then finally losing all interest in math.

I wasn't HUGELY interested in math, so it wasn't a big loss, but the older I get, the more I find myself playing with numbers in ways I used to think I was bad at. My mom has since apologized for not telling where that teacher to go, many years ago.

[Kali]

17. I freaking LOVED algebra.

It was during the early 70's and a lot of people were taking LSD at my school (not me, of course ahem) algebra was a lot of fun.
Geometry was kind of meh - had a shitty instructor. I don't recall trig very well - pretty sure I did fine, then hit the absolute wall with calculus. Tried at least 3 times, just couldn't do it. Strange.

[Yavin4]

18. It's Not What You Know That's Important. It's The Effort That You're Willing To Put Into Something

that's important. In life, we are all going to be faced with learning something new and different in order to make our labor marketable. Some new things will require time and patience to learn them. I wasn't a brilliant student, but I had a strong work ethic. Algebra kicked my ass when I took it in the 8th grade, but I stuck with it. When I got to Algebra II, I was more than comfortable with it. When I learned calculus in 12th grade, it was hard, but when I took in college, it got much easier.

The same was true for me with Accounting, Finance, and Java programming. Each time, these were difficult at first, but I stuck with them and mastered them.

In our educational system, if you don't master something within 10 seconds, they consider you dumb. We're impatient, and we don't understand that some kids need a little more time than others.

[tjwash]

20. I 'd have had better grades in Alg , if I wasn't smoking thumb-sized doobies before class

[MissB]

22. This is why it is important to accelerate kids in math.

So that by the time they are smoking pot, they are finished with higher math.

Kidding really, but my 8th grader is taking calculus this year. When he is in high school next year, it could all fall apart (teenager angst and all that) but at least he will be done with high school math.

[meegbear]

23. Sure, but have you applied it later in life in the real world??1?

Hmmmmmm??!

[Lionel Mandrake]

27. Depends on what you mean by the real world.

I don't need algebra to balance my checkbook, pay taxes, tie my shoes, or make coffee in the morning.

But as a physicist and engineer, I use algebra and other kinds of math all the time.

[CreekDog]

24. You couldn't get white onions, because of the war.

The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones.

[Dr. Strange]

31. Pfftthhh!

:spray: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Gormy Cuss]

25. "General Math" wasn't arithmetic for dummies in my high school.

It was principally arithmetic, geometry- and algebra-lite for those who weren't in a college prep track. Some of the brightest kids from my junior high went into the business and occupational tracks because they knew they were expected to be earning full time as soon as they left high school. College just was not seen as an option. Some did eventually take on college courses and the General Math on the transcript didn't seem to be much of a hinderance.

Some in the college track purposefully chose General Math because they weren't willing to risk their GPA by slogging through advanced math classes after years of not doing well in math.

[Chan790]

26. My mother did a similar thing with me in English.

I like to go back now to alumni events and rub in the school's face that I'm a published novelist, screenwriter and poet preparing to undertake a Ph.D in Contemporary Lit; that I read big complex novels that my HS remedial English teacher, Mr. Corbin, couldn't get through if he had all the time in the world. The regular English teacher Mr. Wagner just wanted me out of his class. The truly annoying thing is that the honors teacher Ms. Callahan recognized my intelligence, skill and love of books...and they refused to put me in her class because I didn't have the required 94% in the regular class.

After 2 years in Wagner's class, they forced me into Corbin's class where I proceeded purely out of spite to turn in the weekly book report for two straight months on differing interpretations of themes and tropes in the novels Animal Farm and 1984 by George Orwell. Nine consecutive unique book reports. (The assigned level of class readings were Beverly Cleary. That gives you an idea how far past these kids I was.) What was my English problem? I realized early on that my peers were incapable of literature analysis and that the prompts were beneath me so I decided to barely participate in class. I felt unchallenged by essays so I hammered out boilerplate. I wrote term papers that challenged conventional thinking and rebutted the interpretation of the narrative being laid out in class.

I should say that it was not Wagner's fault at all that he didn't want me in his class...I was a little prep-school asshole. Corbin recognized immediately that I was so far ahead of the rest of the class that I didn't belong there. At the end of the year, having been a drag on his class because I was so far advanced over the rest of the class that it was disruptive, Mr. Corbin refused to go to bat for me. So my mother, on the board of trustees of the school, threatened the guidance counselor (who knew I was brilliant, lazy and possessing a poor attitude. She wrote my college recommendation letter.) that she was going to withdraw me and enroll me in Avon Old Farms if they didn't find a way to get me out of Corbin's class.

The first time Wagner saw me in his class again, he had a hissyfit. I'd never seen an adult have a full-out hissyfit before.

[Lionel Mandrake]

28. Congratulations.

You survived your encounters with the evil lords Darth Wagnermort and Dunce Corbuncle.

I had never heard of Beverly Cleary, so I asked my assistant to check her out. My trusty assistant (wikipedia) informed me that she writes books for children and young adults. You probably skipped that phase entirely, moving directly from Dick and Jane to Snowball and Napoleon.

Way to go!

[soleiri]

29. I've never been good at math

I was completely lost when it came to algebra in HS, and in college it took me 3 tries to pass college algebra.
If I hadn't finally past, I would have dropped out of college. I see algebraic equations, and I run screaming.

Yesterday my teenage son comes home and tells me what happened in his algebra 2 class that day.
The teacher gives time for homework in class, and that day's assignment was 1-45 odd.
My son finishes it in class, and gets out the book he's reading for English class.
the teacher walks over to his desk (from what I understand he doesn't look pleased),
asks for his homework, and looks intensely at it, puts it down and says something like, "good job".

The teacher then calls him up and asks if he wants to skip pre-cal and go straight into calculus next year.

I thought it was a cute math story, and how many times are there math posts here? :)

[Lionel Mandrake]

30. But you must have some good math genes.

That IS a cute math story about your son. :)

I thought it was going to turn out differently after the teacher walked over.

Precalculus didn't exist when I was in school. Judging from your story, I guess it means something like "analytic geometry and calculus lite". Your son, I gather is ready to shoulder a heavier load. Maybe he can also exorcise your demons, so that you no longer run and scream when you see an equation.

If it's any consolation, a lot of people have equationophobia.

[RFKHumphreyObama]

32. It's great that you had your mother there and that you got your wish to do algebra

I had immense problems with maths (yes, I live in Australia too so I call it that as well) at school and I am so grateful that my parents and teachers worked closely together to help me through what otherwise would have been a nightmare. Even with the best help and counseling, though, I was never able to excel at it but I did better than I otherwise would have. It was great how wonderfully sympathetic they all were to my struggles

Ýour mother sounds like a wonderful woman. Thank goodness she was there working behind the scenes to correct what would have otherwise been a profound oversight and a stupid decision on the part of the school