Obama and Guns

[GDAEx2]

My Father In Law, a lifelong Democrat, is balking at voting for Obama for three reasons (I think there may be other reasons, but whatever); Experience, Social Security and Guns.
I have no problem refuting his claims on the first two, but what about guns?

Does anyone have a resource outlining Barack's views on guns?
Thanks in advance.

[zanne]

1. I don't know your father-in-law...

But Barack Obama does not want to take his guns away. It's been my experience that people who claim they won't vote for Obama because of those issues wouldn't vote for him regardless of those issues.

[GDAEx2]

3. Agree

but I'm hoping if I present him with the facts and compare and contrast with other Democrats he has voted for in the past that, perhaps with a little introspection, he may come around.

[radioburning]

14. I've been a huge supporter of Obama until I found out about his stereotypically...

Democratic stance on gun control. I'm not a republican, and never have been. I don't live in a "fly over state". I really like most of what Obama is about, but banning "assault weapons" which account for less than 3% of all gun deaths just makes no sense to me. If you banned a certain model of automobile because it was used in 3% of drunk driving deaths people would think you're crazy. I can't believe this even has to be debated.

[zanne]

18. If you vote for McCain because of one issue...

Then, I'm sorry but you're not a Democrat; maybe a Libertarian or a fake Democrat, but not a Democrat.

[Wickerman]

2. DU has a Guns forum where this issue has been discussed at length

He has agreed to abide by the Democratic Platform on the gun issue, which is not a gun grabbing policy. Go to Guns and you'll find what you need, discussed, dissected, and sourced.

[GDAEx2]

4. Thanks Wickerman

[SteveM]

5. A good summary and history of Obama's stands here...

http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm

Recently, he has conceded an individual right to keep and bear arms, but supports local efforts at gun-control.

The problem is his past record of Chicago-style handgun bans (he somewhat disavows his record), and his desire to ban "assault weapons." This latter category is a made-up term used by gun-controllers and merely denotes a semi-automatic carbine of moderate power. The military does not recognize this term; they use "assault rifle," and it denotes a carbine of similar/same caliber which is capable of firing FULL AUTO (like a "machine gun").

The semi-auto carbines employ a technology which is over a hundred years old, and guns of this type have been used in this country by the millions for about as long (I have one built in 1905); in fact, the semi-auto AR 15 and AK 47 "clones" and others are now the most popular center-fire rifle (by sales) in the United States. Figures are not certain, but perhaps 12 - 15 million Americans own these "black" or "scary" guns. I have fired an AK clone: it has mild recoil, is accurate, and has cheap ammo. It may be the dominant rifle used on shooting ranges today (when I was younger the .22 rifle and far more power deer rifles were what you saw the most). Increasingly, they are being chambered for hunting purposes.

While right wing Republicans have pushed the sum-zero politics of gun control (notably Alberto Gonzalez, Sarah Brady, Bill Bennett, Charles Krauthammer, and yes, John McCain), the Democrats are tagged with it, with some justification. This is a problem.

It has been suggested by Jody in the Gungeon that Obama should declare that he will veto any legislation that seeks to infringe on the individual right to keep and bear arms. This would remove policy-making from the national level to the state level/local level where advocates on either side can hash it out in the courts, citing the 2nd Amendment, the 9th, the 14th, etc., as they see fit. If Obama were to do this, he would win back considerable support from "one issue" voters, I believe.

Ironically, the entire history of de jure gun-control is the history of de jure racism, ante-bellum, Jim Crow, industrial era. SEE: www.georgiacarry.org and scroll to the Heller brief. An eye-opener.

[woodsprite]

6. This thread will come in handy at Repub 'family dinner' night on Sun.

My MIL has already started sending around stuff trashing Obama saying he's a muslim terrorist in Dem clothing. I answered that and gave her a bazillion links to look at. This thread should counter anything my BIL can throw my way.

[slackmaster]

7. Obama has an urban-centric view of guns because of where he's from

IMO his perspective needs to be expanded in order to accommodate other attitudes.

[Bonn1997]

8. RE: Experience

When people mention the experience argument, I ask a very simple question: What is the evidence that experience matters in politics? They usually can't answer the question or just give one example of an experienced politician who made good decisions, in which case I give a few examples where inexperienced ones made good decisions. Then I repeat the same very simple question.

[RaleighNCDUer]

9. That is an excellent point.

The simple truth is, politicians become "experienced" politicians by making good decisions when they were inexperienced, thus getting themselves re-elected. The good politicians continue to make good decisions; the bad ones rest on the laurels of their early good decisions until they get voted out.

[virginia mountainman]

10. An interesting You tube video I just stumbled over..

He states very clearly just how out of touch Obama is on this issue...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYg-jVal5b8

He makes a very valid point, I too own an heirloom semi-auto pistol, from MY grandfather. To be frank, I would rather my cars burn, than ANYTHING happen to that gun.

Their will be, NO negotiation on this point...don't even try.

[slackmaster]

11. My father died when I was seven years old

Among the few physical relics of his life that I own, are a gold Omega wrist watch and a semiautomatic pistol - a German World War II era Walther P.38.

The video just hit me pretty hard. Thanks, virginia mountainman.

Obama needs to adjust his attitude.

[Hangingon]

12. That is a powerful video.

I have my grandfather's pistol and my father's rifle - a semi automtic .22. My reading of Obama's stance is I would lose both.

[Bonn1997]

13. I'd have to see what position in writing he's talking about

I'm not gonna just take the word of some right-winger on Youtube. That said, I personally think the world would be a better place if there were no hand guns (or were as few as possible) but I know that position would make Obama unelectable.

[radioburning]

15. If you want to see what America would be like without handguns look at this...

In 1997 England confiscated all handguns. The crime rate has risen steadily since.

Check it...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=757_1212418336

[Bonn1997]

16. I didn't say "gun bans"

I said a world with no guns. Gun bans would be a start but only 10 years after a ban there's still going to be a lot of guns left. You have to appreciate the difference between correlation (your evidence in this article) and causation too.

[zanne]

19. The crime rate in Britain has not steadily increased.

For the first two years it did, then it went back down. Stop spreading lies.

[iverglas]

20. that has to be one of the funniest things I've ever seen!

If you want to see what America would be like without handguns look at this...

Its streets would be crowded with white people with posh accents protesting against the BAN ON FOX HUNTING??


No, will resist the urge to comment on your own nonsense.

Will just quote Mark Twain:

A lie can travel halfway around the world
while the truth is putting on its shoes.


I'm becoming increasingly persuaded that you're up to no good here, radioburning! You have to stop this pretense; nobody will really believe gunheads are this dishonest / nuts / dumb.


I have to go get somebody to check me for nits now. But seriously, that was worth the trip. Stupid rich right-wing white people tricks. Always good for a laugh.

Here. My contribution; different country, but yours just put me in mind of it:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=de6V90jT4SQ

[DSC_EBR]

17. Obama and guns

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/630645/barak_obamas_gun_control_positions.html