Hammering home that it's Dean's Mouth

[ModerateMiddle]

that will be his undoing (as he himself as readily admitted). In a week filled with Dean having to explain his positions or his words or his "evolution", he goes on the record with George Stephanopolous on "This Week" criticiizing "the press guys" for mischaracterizing his supporting NAFTA as being "strong support". Then his competitors point out that he in fact characterized himself that way.

MISQUOTE
by Michael Crowley

Candidate: Howard Dean
Category: Intellectual Honesty
Grade: F

Watching Howard Dean's oddly pugnacious interview with George Stephanopoulos on ABC's "This Week" yesterday, I couldn't help but wonder whether Dean is intentionally picking fights with marquee journalists (he also recently snarled at NBC's Tim Russert) in order to fire up his anti-Washington-establishment base. Because on the issue over which Dean was snippiest--NAFTA--his position was absurdly indefensible. After Stephanopoulos began a question by saying that Dean had been a "strong supporter of NAFTA," the former governor testily cut him off: "Where do you get the 'I'm a strong supporter of NAFTA?' I didn't do anything about it. I didn't vote on it. I didn't march down the street supporting it. I wrote a letter supporting it."

Stephanopoulos was unprepared for this challenge--but Dean's rivals certainly weren't. Within hours the Kerry campaign had emailed around press releases doing to Dean what a rocket-propelled grenade might do to a cardboard box. It turns out that eight years ago--on the very same show, no less--Dean had proclaimed: "I was a very strong supporter of NAFTA. I believe it's going to create jobs in the United States of America." And the Kerry camp pointed out that, irony of ironies, yesterday's interview came ten years to the day after Dean's appearance at the White House's NAFTA bill-signing ceremony. (The Kerry campaign was somehow even able to provide the original, decade-old press release for the event--an impressive display of opposition-research firepower.)

In a Democratic party cursed by a lack of compelling messengers, Dean's sharp, concise speaking style holds real promise. But not if his rhetorical bluntness becomes arrogant, knee-jerk certitude.

[hxcgreen]

1. I thought

everyone voted that you could only bash a democrat if you ended it by saying "bush is an ass wipe" (or something like that).

[ModerateMiddle]

2. Bush is an a$$wipe

:thumbsup:

[deutsey]

5. HA!

I missed that agreement, but I like it!!!!

:evilgrin:

[deutsey]

3. Actually, Dean's tendency to say what he wants when he wants,

while a strength in some ways, also has a real potential to become a big problem for him. He prides himself on being independent and doing what he wants despite what his handlers tell him. I think he needs to be more aware of the intense scrutiny he's under now and that everything he says is going to be researched back to his Yale days probably.

Still, am I being overly sensitive, or is the reference to an RPG in this article kind of tasteless?

The frontpage of my local paper featured a photo of the flag-draped coffin of a young soldier's funeral...the soldier was killed by an RPG attack. That could explain why that sentence jarred me when I read it.

[ProfessorPlum]

8. yeah, I'm not thrilled when he can be shown to not

be telling the truth at least once an interview - and it is usually about facts which don't matter all that much.

It always seems to get him when an interviewer tries to put words into his mouth or seems to be manuevering him into a position when he is not sure where they are going. They say "you are X" or "you supported Y" or "you support Z" and his initial reaction is to say "No I'm not" or "No I didn't" automatically, presumabably because he doesn't know where they are going after this lead up.

I admire his sense of being able to detect "gotcha" questions coming, but he needs to think of a better strategy than "deny now, release the facts later". Maybe reframing the gotcha question after it has been asked, a tried and true technique, would be more beneficial for him.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

54. It doesn't matter when a politician misrepresents his position?

The facts of how a candidate stands on the issues, and whether they are honest about their previous stands "don't matter all that much"?

This is a clear, indisputable case of Dean trying to deny his earlier position because his new 'evolved' position is more politically advantageous at this moment.

How can we trust this man?

[w4rma]

4. …part-owner of The New Republic, gave $2,000 to Bush-Cheney '04 Inc.

WHEN YOU'VE LOST THE NEW REPUBLIC . . . Tapped's new favorite thing is the Federal Election Commission database where you can type in anyone's name and see if he or she has donated money to political candidates or parties. (Tapped's old favorite thing was The Washington Post's home buyer database, where you could learn how much your neighbors spent for their apartments.) So check out this nifty little listing (go here and search for “Steinhardt, Michael”) that we discovered while trying to see which big-shot New Democrats were supporting which Democratic presidential candidates: According to this list, Michael Steinhardt, former Democratc Leadership Council stalwart and part-owner of The New Republic, gave $2,000 to Bush-Cheney '04 Inc. on June 20, 2003.

Now, we know that there's often little direct relationship between a magazine owner's politics and the views of its writers, but it is a notable thing when one of the more prominent New Democrats around starts financing the continuation of the Bush administration.
http://www.prospect.org/weblog/archives/2003/07/index.html#001288

[deutsey]

6. Yeah, I did a google search

and found this was from TNR.

Didn't surprise me, but I chose to address the content. Thanks for this reminder...

[DrFunkenstein]

10. You Keep Posting This Like It Means Something

When there's often little direct relationship between a magazine owner's politics and the views of its writers.;)

[dave29]

45. Just like FoxNews

right?

[renie408]

12. You have totally lost me

Is this some new kind of defense? Since you have nothing to say about the actual article, cause it is just TRUE, you are going to attack the magazine? What doe is matter WHERE it was published if its true?

Did Dean say that about NAFTA or not? If he did, WHY did he say that?

[madfloridian]

17. Did they publish the 1995 transcript? Context?

I can't seem to find it at the other candidates websites, and I can't find it connected to the statement. Just that he said it. That is ok, that he said it, I just want to see the full context.
Why didn't they post the transcript if they found it?

[renie408]

19. Are you talking transcripts?

I know that when I was searching for an earlier reference to a This Week transcript, they were selling them for $19.95.

[ModerateMiddle]

18. Good point.

I have noticed how any anti-Dean article is nearly immediately dismissed as coming from -- well disparaged sources, even if these sources were fine the day before, or even more recently.

Here's a different source, that has generally been deemed good, but then again, they too have taken Dean to task for his mouth lately:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/TheNote/TheNote.html

As for Dean angrily rejecting to both George Stephanopoulos and (unbidden!!!) to that roomful of reporters in Iowa the characterization of him as a "strong supporter of NAFTA" (which turns out to have been WEAKER than language Dean once used on "This Week" himself!!!), the Dean campaign's attitude seems to be "who cares?"

[clar]

20. From the same source:

1. In what is practically a daily ritual of insanity, John Kerry did yet another interview with the Boston Globe , and the Sunday Mike Kranish story that it yielded is one of the richest anyone has produced on any of the candidates this election cycle Ñ in the inside baseball category. LINK
If you are interested in this race and/or the Kerry campaign and you don't read it in full, you are basically saying you have no respect for The Note's judgment.
But since we know that description fits many of you, here are the highlights:
A. Kerry trashes his staff for not implementing his visionary lead on the Internet.
B. Kerry seems to go back on the notion that he won't make staff changes.
C. Kerry trashes (implicitly) Chris Lehane, for issuing an announcement-day press release in Kerry's name, which, the candidate now says contained words that "weren't precisely my words. They were the words of the press release sent out."
D. Kerry seems to blame Dean's rise and his fall on Dean's advertising jump (not on, say, not having a message).
E. Kerry promises to let the Boston kitchen cabinet have more of a say in things (a recipe for É É ..).
F. Kerry says Dean will raise twice what he himself raises this quarter (We think he might live to regret that expectation setting É ).
G. Kerry has to suffer the indignity of long-time supporter Jerome Grossman panning his Iraq position (We admit we failed to notice that Kerry unveiled yet another new justification of his pro-war votes in Baltimore É .), with Grossman saying wild and crazy things.
H. Kerry, sitting with campaign manager Jim Jordan during the interview, doesn't really deal with his having repudiated Jordan's attacks on Dean, while Kerry makes tougher ones himself.
I. Kranish reports that some of Jordan's troops threatened to quit if Jordan was sacked.
J. Kranish reports on the remarkable history of the Kerry blog.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/TheNote/TheNote.html

[renie408]

27. Start your own thread for that

Cause it has nothing to do with this one. Unless you are using the "Johnny jumped off a bridge, so that makes it ok for Howie to jump of a bridge, too" defense.

I am not dissing either article. I can readily believe that they are right about both men.

That's why I am supporting Edwards. :)

[blm]

21. Former DLC stalwart and presidential candidate

Howard Dean supported Bush on Yucca Mt. Is that a window to everything Dean believes?

[ProfessorPlum]

22. Of course

Everyone knows you can judge a candidate completely based on a single issue.

[renie408]

23. Well, I would like to give it a shot

But I don't know what the hell Yucca Mountain is.

[ProfessorPlum]

24. Ack, don't open a can of worms so blithely!

You shall soon learn, padawan.

[renie408]

28. "I am not afraid!"

"You will be....you will be."

[Egnever]

33. Its a ....

proposal to create a national nuclear waste disposal here in nevada pretty close to las vegas inside a mouintain.

[renie408]

34. Near Vegas??

Couldn't you guys charge admission for something like that?? Think of it as the ultimate gambling spot?? That Howard, so thoughtful. Look, he is already trying to help generate income for another state. What a guy!!

[Egnever]

35. you know,,,

seeing some of the things I've seen here, think babe hunting for a recent example. We just might be able to get away with that here. Might be worth looking into :P

[renie408]

36. Isn't somebody

supposed to chug a shot right now??

[Egnever]

41. Im in

:beer:

[Egnever]

25. OK please explain to me what is wrong with Yucca MT

I live in las vegas and people are pretty passionate here about it. But I just dont get it.


Also i think Howards mouth is working great. I have yet to hear him explain a position he has held and not understood his reasoning for making the decision he did at the time

[renie408]

29. It's probably just your ears, then

[renie408]

30. Sorry...really

my sense of humor gets out of its cage occasionally. That was just such a classic waiting to happen, I couldn't help it.

[Egnever]

32. Np at all

It was funny :)

[Egnever]

31. Heh

Good one :toast:

[CMT]

7. as a Dean supporter I agree with this analysis

Dean's sharp, consise speaking style does hold real promise. I also agree he needs to watch that he doesn't sound arrogant and at times takes a breath before answering a question. This is becoming a problem for Dean and I'm confident he and his campaign can handle it.

[DrFunkenstein]

14. As A Kerry Supporter I Agree Also

For Dean to become more polished doesn't mean he has to get more bland. But working on the arrogance would be a nice start. Malcolm X was angry, but polished and was one of the most effective speakers of the 20th century.

[madfloridian]

9. I did a web search, plus Gephardt and Kerry sites, for the transcript....

from the 1995 show. I am not questioning that he said he was strong supporter, I just wonder why the transcript is so hard to find?
Could you help me?

I am thinking in terms of context, etc.

[DrFunkenstein]

11. You Probably Need A Nexis-Lexis Search Thingy

That's what journalists use. I would love to be able to afford one. I'd rather have that than Tivo. And that's saying alot.

[ModerateMiddle]

13. Hell, I can't even find

the transcript from yesterday's show!

I think the people "bigger'n us" have Nexis/Lexis. That's how they find stuff.

[ProfessorPlum]

15. Bob Somerby uses it (lexis/nexis)

like a surgical scalpel. It's a beautiful thing to watch.

[renie408]

16. If it is anything like

the transcript I looked up this morning, you have to buy them.

[DemDogs]

26. Dean's lack of trustworthiness a problem

Dean's candidacy is based, on substantial part, on his highly successful attacks on Bush. And I don't think that parsing his positions, even his odd position on Israel, is a vulnerability. He has insulated himself from these attacks by saying (to everyone else's legitimate complaint) that the other candidates are in bed with Bush, therefore attacks from them are part of the Washington-based problem he is supposedly available to solve.

The problem is that his false or misguided statements is not where he is on Israel (but OMG!) or where he is on Yucca Mountain or middle class tax cuts, but where he is on credibility. When he says things that are wrong (and we have seen plenty of that recently), he thinks it shows a weakness to admit that they are wrong. (Dan Balz last week called something "wildly wrong" -- amazingly strong for Balz of the Washington Post -- that Dean continued to stand by.) His response shows a disregard for the voter, for the other candidates, and for the legitimacy of the party. It shows a distasteful level of arrogance, and it deprives Dean of a potent weapon against Bush and his lies.

The very notion that, when the issue comes up, Dean supporters on this forum want to change the subject, attack the messenger, or say that the lies haven't been about anything important is almost as dangerous as Dean's behavior.

We are the party of virtue and truth, as naive as that may sound. I am not young, but it is what brought me to the party when I was young and what has kept me here for decades.

[ProfessorPlum]

38. I'm a Dean supporter

see my post above about him. I think many of us can look at him, warts and all, and still be pretty pleased with the package. I agree, he needs to stop defensively denying his past positions - that move sets him up for contradictions too many times.

[Egnever]

39. Sory but I dont think your paying attention

Its our trust in Dean that puts him where he is today.

Its the daily examples of coming out in response to new administration policies. His willingness to take a stand on issues over and over, not after everyone else has has thier say but immediately within 24 hours often times less. This is what draws us to him. He is fighting this administration daily! His campaign has done more allready to bring light to skeletons in this administration. Than perhaps the rest of the dem party put together.

Yes there are others out there speaking out here and there on various issues. But Dean is doing it agressively and thanks to the media attention he is getting loudly!


hell today!

Today, as President Bush visited a coal-fired power plant in Monroe, MI to once again tout his so-called "Clear Skies" plan, Howard Dean assailed the Bush Administration's record on the environment and called on Congress to hold the nomination of Mike Leavitt as EPA Administrator "until the administration cleans up its environmental act."


Go get em howard!

We trust howard to get these bums out by calling them for the criminals that they are.

Changing positions based on new evidence doesnt even begin to bother me

[DrFunkenstein]

44. Trust Is Not The Word I Would Use

What skeletons has Dean ever brought out? Holding the EPA was fairly obviously Hillary Clinton's idea.

When you get past the IWR crutch and the screech, what does Dean offer that the other candidates don't offer more substantially?

I know - I "just don't get" that Dean has "the music." But I have seriously looked at Dean's policies and they don't really impress me. Which is one reason Dean supporters tend to avoid policy debates in favor of rhetorical stylings.

In Dean's own words, "I suppose that's a good thing."

[Egnever]

48. Of course you wouldnt

You are clearly not one of Deans biggest fans. Multiple posts from you attest to that fact.

Again if you think it is just the IWR and the EPA you havent been paying attention. I know reading hit pieces to form your opinion makes it extreamly easy for anyone to come to the same conclusion you often come to but it doesnt take away from the facts of whats really going on.


Take a look if you missed them as they were hapening.


http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=press_releases

Theres a ton of them there The EPA statement was just today in response to bush propaganda today!

Sadly though funk I dont think you will ever "get it".

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

49. Ah, "TRUST."

Kerry on Powell's UN presentation:

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA): Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.

And Mr. Secretary(Powell), I join my colleagues in thanking you for your presentation yesterday, for its quality and its content.


Edit to add: :puke:

[Egnever]

51. wow

your on today!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

37. Keep hammering!

Kerry Communications Director Resigns

Early this month, as he formally began his campaign, Kerry told reporters he "reserved the right" to make changes and gave a mixed assessment of his staff's performance. Trying to quell talk of a staff purge, he issued a statement saying there would be "no changes."

The statement, drafted with Lehane's assistance, was meant to be the last word, but Kerry has backpedaled from it. "Those weren't precisely my words. They were the words of a press release sent out," Kerry told The Boston Globe in a story published Sunday.

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/6778015.htm



On edit- The amazing Press Release with a MIND of it's own!

[DrFunkenstein]

42. How Hard Is It To Understand?

Kerry probably said something along the lines of "I don't plan on making any changes," and Lehane translated it to "no changes."

--

Could he hurt himself? "If I blew up in a debate or something like that, yes," Dean said. "But I haven't done that in 16 years of debates."

"I can get snippy," he said, "no doubt about it."

Less than an hour later...Dean was asked whether he was surprised that rival John Kerry did not criticize him in Thursday's debate.

"I wish he'd say to my face what he says behind my back," Dean said before disappearing behind the door, a grimace on his face.

--

Don't feel bad. Bush needed some extra time to study for the debates, too. For the time being, he can stick to making vague statements that often vaguely contradict each other.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

43. So you're saying that he didn't read a press release

issued in his name? Kind of like voting for a bill you didn't read, isn't it? (We won't go there)

[DrFunkenstein]

46. Something Similar Happened Over His "Irish" Heritage

A press statement went out, written by an aide, that said something like "We who are fortunate enough to be Irish." It was part of a speech he never gave, and would never have given, because he has never claimed to be Irish.

Talk to Wellstone about unread bills (you get the idea). Nice to be an unemployed ex-Governor, doncha think?

[ProfessorPlum]

50. That was one of my shining moments in writing to reporters

Here's my letter to the Globe writer who was putting that crap down (it got published on MediaWhores - I was very proud!):

Subject: What in the name of all that is holy is the matter with you?
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 21:11:45 -0500
To: [e-mail]


Mr. Lehigh,

I am writing to protest your latest column "Kerry has a bad case of the sulks". For the love of God, STOP, JUST STOP! I don't know what has possessed you and your colleagues at the Globe, but in case you haven't noticed, this country is in terrible shape. Our store of treasure has been squandered. Our store of international goodwill and credibility has been squandered. Our system of international law and treaties has been squandered. Our incredibly stabilizing ideal of separation of church and state has been squandered. Our peace has been squandered. Our prosperity has been squandered. Our environment is being sold to the highest bidder. The domestic and international damage that is being done to this country by our current administration is unprecedented in both its scope and its speed. Unless the citizens of this country do something quickly to effect a regime change, by somehow getting the illegal squatter out of office in 2004, there will be no recognizable USA left to fight over.

In light of the urgency of what is at stake for all of us, your continued carping and mewling at a leading contender for the Democratic nomination shatters all rationality. Frankly, I don't care what kind of personal grudges the Globe has with Kerry. If you have any decency left as a human being you will come together with other people of goodwill in this country to support all of the Democratic field of contenders. If you have no human decency, but have even a shred of journalistic integrity, you will limit your comments about politicians to relevant policy issues. If you have neither decency nor integrity, you will continue this incredibly counter-productive campaign of slur, innuendo, nastiness, and trivia against Kerry.

As to the content of your column, if you think Kerry can be sulky, you have obviously not paid any attention to the vindictive, vengeful, sulking, and spoiled career of the man-child who some now call the president. I would call "The Bush Dyslexicon" by Mark Crispin Miller and "Shrub" by Molly Ivins and Lou Dubose to your attention. Notice what happened to the homeowners in Arlington who opposed his sweetheart deal for the Rangers' stadium. Notice how Bush treated Al Hunt when he was drunk. Notice how reporters and columnists who dare to challenge the naked emporer are "shunned" by those in power, and their colleagues. Notice how idiots in our government are sulkily re-naming french fries, for God's sake.

As for Kerry's heritage, as if it made any difference, it was clear in the conversation he had with John McLaughlin in 1993 that he wasn't sure what exactly his background was, and that he presumed, EVEN UP TO 1993 and later, that his name implied that his heritage was Irish or English. Let me explain this one more time for you, because you seem a little slow on this point: He never corrected the Globe (and you are fools to think that was his job) for implying that he was Irish because until recently he thought he probably was, too. Now, I will state again that his ancestry doesn't matter. I would vote for an alien dropped from a ship from Jupiter if I thought he stood for good policies and he could beat Bush in the general election. But your continued, and obviously deliberate, idiocy around this point can clearly be seen for what it is - a political hit job. The Globe did it to Gore in 1999-2000, and you are gearing up to do it to Democrats again this time around.

Knock it off. We are on to you this time, and we will not put up with this transparent trivializing of our national debate, nor with the trashing of good and decent people who have devoted themselves to public service. If you have a legitimate policy concern about Kerry, then by all means write about it. But leave the Kool Kidz, "Heathers"-like trashing of people to the Washington Post. They do it so much better than you, anyway.

[renie408]

53. Ooooohhhh...Aaaahhhh...

That was bee-yoo-ti-full!!!

Very eloquent. I am going to cut out the parts about Bush and have them printed on a shirt. I really love the repeated use of 'squandered'. Very nice.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

52. Nice to see he learns from his mistakes.

Nice to stay on the public payroll while you campaign for the Presidency and miss 37% of the votes in the Senate.


Tit meet Tat. Tat, Tit.

[renie408]

55. That doesn't make sense.

It is silly to imply that Senators should quit their seats to run for President. And there are plenty of people who miss more votes than that and aren't running for anything.

Sorry, I don't have much to say about the rest of the argument, but I just thought this was a bad point.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

57. Got a comment on

the "nice to be an unemployed ex-Governor" part. It's just a response (admittedly a meaningless one) to crap like that. If one wants to play the game, I'll play. If one wants to sit it out, I'm more than happy to do that, too.




Edit- add "unemployed." A perjorative, if I've ever heard one.

[renie408]

59. Check. I get what you are saying.

[liberalmike27]

40. It is the Media's Fault

Remember in 2000, Gore let the media tie his earth-tone slacks in a hangman's noose, which he allowed them to later use to execute him as a candidate. This is the same thing now, with each issue, they take a group of words, let's say "even-handed" and twist it to say Dean doesn't support Israel, and is a terrorist. These words simply mean fair, but the media deduces the above negative definition, usually starting from Drudge or FAUX News, then the other outlets pick it up, and viola' it's a certified problem.

I saw Dean on This Week, and he stopped Stephanopolis in his tracks with the way he was characterizing him while talking about NAFTA. He wrote a letter to clinton about the subject, approving of it since he is in a state bordering Canada, and he'd benifit, so they were spinning him a strong supporter of it, and I just read the same trash-Dean talking point words in Newsweek.

They will steer this thing toward Kerry, Bush's Skull and Bones Yalee elite club buddy, or Lie-berman, by trashing all other viable candidates that might actually awaken those who have given up on the Republican/Republican-Lite current system.

Anybody but Bush, or Lieberman, or Kerry, Bush Sucks, and is an Ass-wipe.

[DrFunkenstein]

47. Kerry Called Dean Out On NAFTA

They released a statement by Dean from 1995 or so stating that "I am a strong supporter of NAFTA." The only thing Dean accomplished was sounding pugnacious to the Greek Softball of Sunday morning. Maybe he thought he was getting back at Russert for trouncing him.

PS - No serious journalist is going to mention S&B because it is STUPID.

Also what makes you think Kerry is Bush-lite? Kerry is the polar opposite of Bush. Dean is smack dab in the middle. Don't let his volume fool you.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

56. It's the media's fault that Dean can't keep his story straight?

Maybe they were using mind-control on him when he stated "I was a very strong supporter of NAFTA. I believe it's going to create jobs in the United States of America." but they forgot to turn on the mind-control device this Sunday when he stated: "Where do you get the 'I'm a strong supporter of NAFTA?'"

[ProfessorPlum]

58. Yes

:)