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Jacobson's claims re Ethanol mainly from Searchinger's "study" debunked by Wang,recognized authority

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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:11 PM
Original message
Jacobson's claims re Ethanol mainly from Searchinger's "study" debunked by Wang,recognized authority
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 08:14 PM by JohnWxy
on transportation fuels.

Jacobson and Searchinger are considering ethanol as a replacement for ALL gasoline which is probably not very likely. Nonetheless, Ethanol can be a valuable technology even if it doesn't replace all our gasoline usage. Ford is going to soon offer an engine which will provide a 25% to 30% gain in gas mileage with only 5% ethanol vs 95% gasoline usage. This means that if all cars were using this engine you would get 25% to 30% reduction in total gas demand with ethanol supplying 5% of the total fuel supply. We currently produce an volume of ethanol that is about 5% of the total fuel supply.

NOnetheless, ethanol will most likely not replace gasoline use entirely. that will take plug-in hybrids. However, it will take a two to three decades for hybrids to make an appreciable dent in gasoline demand and in that time ethanol will enable us to reduce our gasoline usage (and keep the price of gas down - it will go up again, you can count on it). We will need to save that money as investing in electric cars will not be cheap.

Even if electric cars averaged 200 mpg it would take 13 million electric cars costing $180 Billion (without inflation and using GM's estimate of $37,500 for the volt) to reduce total gas consumption by 3%. This is assuming 200,000 units initial sales and sales growth of 20% per year. (note that the spreaadsheet at the link allows the user to change the assumed values for cost , mpg, initial sales and annual slaes growth and percent of total gasoline consumption saved. So if you don't like the assumptions I used try some of your own! The spreadsheet compares the Volt to a Corolla getting 30 mpg at the beginning rising to 39 mpg at end of period. The electric car goes from 200 mpg to 371 mpg)

http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/letter_to_science_anldoe_03_14_08.pdf


Searchinger et al. had to decide what land use changes would be needed in Brazil, the United
States, China, and India to meet their simulated requirement for 10.8 million hectares of new
crop land. With no data or modeling, Searchinger et al. used the historical land use changes that
occurred in the 1990s in individual countries to predict future land use changes in those countries
(2015 and beyond). This assumption is seriously flawed by predicting deforestation in the
Amazon and conversion of grassland into crop land in China, India, and the United States. The
fact is, deforestation rates have already declined through legislation in Brazil and elsewhere. In
China, contrary to the Searchinger et al. assumptions, efforts have been made in the past ten
years to convert marginal crop land into grassland and forest land in order to prevent soil erosion
and other environmental problems.

In estimating the GHG emissions payback period for corn ethanol, Searchinger et al. relied on
the 20% reduction in GHG emissions that is provided in the GREET model for the current
ethanol industry. Future corn ethanol plants could improve their energy efficiency by avoiding
DGS drying (in some ethanol plants) or switching to energy sources other than natural gas or
coal, either of which would result in greater GHG emissions reductions for corn ethanol (Wang
et al. 2007). Searchinger et al. failed to address this potential for increased efficiency in ethanol
production.

In one of the sensitivity cases, Searchinger et al. examined cellulosic ethanol production from
switchgrass grown on land converted from corn farms. Cellulosic biomass feedstocks for ethanol
production could come from a variety of sources. Oak Ridge National Laboratory completed an
extensive assessment of biomass feedstock availability for biofuel production (Perlack et al.
2005). With no conversion of crop land in the United States, the study concludes that more than
1 billion tons of biomass resources are available each year from forest growth and by-products,
crop residues, and perennial energy crops on marginal land. In fact, in the same issue of
Sciencexpress as the Searchinger et al. study is published, Fargione et al. (2008) show beneficial
GHG results for cellulosic ethanol.

On the basis of our own analyses, production of corn-based ethanol in the United States so far
results in moderate GHG emissions reductions. There has also been no indication that U.S. corn
ethanol production has so far caused indirect land use changes in other countries because U.S.
corn exports have been maintained at about 2 billion bushels a year and because U.S. DGS
exports have steadily increased in the past ten years. U.S. corn ethanol production is expected to
expand rapidly over the next few years — to 15 billion gallons a year by 2015. It remains to be
seen whether and how much direct and indirect land use changes will occur as a result of U.S.
corn ethanol production.

The Searchinger et al. study demonstrated that indirect land use changes are much more difficult
to model than direct land use changes. To do so adequately, researchers must use general
equilibrium models that take into account the supply and demand of agricultural commodities,
land use patterns, and land availability (all at the global scale), among many other factors. Efforts
have only recently begun to address both direct and indirect land use changes (see Birur et al.
2007). At this time, it is not clear what land use changes could occur globally as a result of U.S.
corn ethanol production. While scientific assessment of land use change issues is urgently
needed in order to design policies that prevent unintended consequences from biofuel production,
conclusions regarding the GHG emissions effects of biofuels based on speculative, limited land
use change modeling may misguide biofuel policy development.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOte that by getting 25% to 30% better gas mileage with 1/20th as much ethanol, Ford will also be multiplying the performance of ethanol re GHG reduction 20 times.




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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. there`s a firm in madison wisconsin that can convert...
any plant sugar directly into "gasoline" at a profit at 50-60 per barrel of crude oil...

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/biz/317423

yup ..the problem is how much land it will take.

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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Ethanol can be amde from any plant. And has been for over 30 years. no need to use corn.
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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. You're right. Coskata says they will be making it for a $1/ gal from cellulosic sources in about a
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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I didn't see any cost numbers in article but crude is trading at $42 a barrel today. they did
say in the article it would be about 7 yrs before they would be commercially competitive. That pretty much means they could not make a profit right now.


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"Edwards' mission will be to take the technology to the next level, to demonstrate that it works at a larger manufacturing scale. A pilot plant under construction will be able to produce 10,000 gallons of fuel a year. The next step will be 10 million gallons; it will take about three years to get there, Cortright projected. And then, the goal will be 100 million gallons. When Virent gets that far, it will be ready to go commercial.


"We'd like to be there sooner, but it will probably take five to seven years (to reach)," said Cortright, who also is Virent's executive vice president and chief technical officer."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. Jacobson used 9 different studies on ethanol
"4a.ix. Corn and cellulosic ethanol. Several studies have examined the lifecycle emissions of corn and cellulosic ethanol.53–61 These studies generally accounted for the emissions due to planting, cultivating, fertilizing, watering, harvesting, and transporting crops, the emissions due to producing ethanol in a factory and transporting it, and emissions due to running vehicles, although with differing assumptions in most cases. Only one of these studies58 accounted for the emissions of soot, the second-leading component of global warming (Introduction), cooling aerosol particles, nitric oxide gas, carbon monoxide gas, or detailed treatment of the nitrogen cycle. That study58 was also the only one to account for the accumulation of CO2 in the atmosphere due to the time lag between biofuel use and regrowth.62 Only three studies58,60,61 considered substantially the change in carbon storage due to (a) converting natural land or crop land to fuel crops, (b) using a food crop for fuel, thereby driving up the price of food, which is relatively inelastic, encouraging the conversion of land worldwide to grow more of the crop, and (c) converting land from, for example, soy to corn in one country, thereby driving up the price of soy and encouraging its expansion in another country.

The study that performed the land use calculation in the most detail,61 determined the effect of price changes on land use change with spatially-distributed global data for land conversion between noncropland and cropland and an econometric model. It found that converting from gasoline to ethanol (E85) vehicles could increase lifecycle CO2e by over 90% when the ethanol is produced from corn and around 50% when it is produced from switchgrass. Delucchi,58 who treated the effect of price and land use changes more approximately, calculated the lifecycle effect of converting from gasoline to corn and switchgrass E90. He estimated that E90 from corn ethanol might reduce CO2e by about 2.4% relative to gasoline. In China and India, such a conversion might increase equivalent carbon emissions by 17% and 11%, respectively. He also estimated that ethanol from switchgrass might reduce US CO2e by about 52.5% compared with light-duty gasoline in the US. We use results from these two studies to bound the lifecycle emissions of E85. These results will be applied shortly to compare the CO2e changes among electric power and fuel technologies when applied to vehicles in the US."


Your "criticisms" via Wang tend to lose a little credibility when you (1) fail to actually address the specific points in Jacobson's study and (2) fail to notice that Wang is one of the authors cited.

53 H. Shapouri, J. A. Duffield and M. Wang, The energy balance of corn ethanol revisited, Trans. ASAE, 2003, 46, 959–968.

54 D. Pimentel and T. W. Patzek, Ethanol production using corn, switchgrass, and wood; biodiesel production using soybean and sunflower, Nat. Resour. Res., 2005, 14, 67–76.

55 A. E. Farrell, R. J. Plevin, B. T. Turner, A. D. Jones, M. O'Hare and D. M. Kammen, Ethanol can contribute to energy and environmental goals, Science, 2006, 311, 506–508 .

56 T. Patzek, Science, 2006, 312, 1747 , supporting online material.

57 T. W. Patzek, The real biofuel cycle, 2006b, http://petroleum.berkeley.edu/patzek/BiofuelQA/Materials/RealFuelCycles-Web.pdf.

58 M. Delucchi, Lifecycle analyses of biofuels, 2006, www.its.ucdavis.edu/publications/2006/UCD-ITS-RR-06-08.pdf.

59 D. Tilman, J. Hill and C. Lehman, Carbon-negative biofuels from low-input high-diversity grassland, Science, 2006, 314, 1598–1600 .

60 J. Fargione, J. Hill, D. Tilman, S. Polasky and P. Hawthorne, Land clearing and the biofuel carbon debt, Science, 2008, 319, 1235–1238 .

61 T. Searchinger, R. Heimlich, R. A. Houghton, F. Dong, A. Elobeid, J. Fabiosa, S. Tokgoz, D. Hayes and T.-H. Yu, Use of U.S. cropland for biofuels increases greenhouse gases through emissions from land-use change, Science, 2008, 319, 1238–1240 .

Finally, the "projections" you've provided about electric vehicles are yours, are they not? If anyone wants to download your spreadsheet and input different figures I'd suggest they bear in mind the situation as seen by the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI). When doing this it would be good to remember that 1) the market for vehicles in the US is 10 - 16 million per year depending on economic conditions and 2) that mass production will reduce costs for EV's just as it does other product. Since an electic drive vehicle is a much more simple machine, it is reasonable to conclude that the the cost will soon be at or below the cost for a comparable car with an interenal combustion engine. :

The Electric Transportation program conducts research and development on vehicle and infrastructure technologies that enable the use of electricity as a transportation fuel. The program has played a leading role in the development of plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV) technologies that are now at the forefront of automotive industry development efforts. EPRI also serves as the focal point for the development of infrastructure standards and technology to support PHEV adoption by utility customers. EPRI’s non-road electric transportation efforts have demonstrated the cost-effective use of battery electric vehicles in numerous commercial and industrial applications and serve as the technical foundation for successful, customer-focused utility non-road electric transportation market expansion programs.


Industry Needs and Issues Addressed

* Electricity is the only potential energy source for transportation that addresses the simultaneous need for fuel diversity, energy security, reductions in greenhouse gas emissions, and improvements in air quality that is widely available and produced domestically. Electric utilities must understand the paradigm shift that will occur with an inevitable transition of transportation energy from petroleum to electricity—as well as their new role as a fuel provider for vehicles.
* The major automotive companies, including General Motors, Ford, and Toyota, are competing to be first to market with PHEVs.
* Nearly all of the major automakers are reaching out to the utility industry to develop and standardize infrastructure for recharging plug-in hybrids.
* Fleets can offset high fuel costs and meet environmental requirements by incorporating plug-in hybrid or battery electric vehicles into operations.
* Adoption of non-road electric vehicles at customer sites can reduce fuel costs and increase customer satisfaction. Emission-constrained sites like seaports and airports can reduce the cost of environmental compliance.

Impact

* Collaborate with the automotive industry on major PHEV test and demonstration programs
* Quantify the economic and environmental value of electrifying transportation—to utilities and society
* Develop appropriate intelligent infrastructure technology and standards to maximize PHEV value to a utility—including the optimization of off-peak charging
* Understand utility system impacts of PHEV adoption
* Lower utility fleet operating costs as electric vehicles reduce consumption of imported fuel
* New vertical market business opportunities arising from development and deployment of advanced electric drive technologies
* Enhance customer satisfaction and retention through improved productivity and reduced operating costs and emissions
* Utilize investment through EPRI’s collaboration with public and private organizations

Key Accomplishments

* Formation of major collaborative PHEV programs with the automotive industry, including General Motors, Ford Motor Company, and Eaton Corporation
* Developing proof of concept plug-in hybrid-drive systems in multiple transportation platforms
* Expanding market penetration of electric drive in the non-road market through value demonstrations
* Validating the environmental benefit of electric vehicles (EVs) to commercial and industrial entities and communities in which the entities are located
* Analysis of potential impacts to utility systems

Current Year Objectives

* Demonstrate utility fleet prototype PHEVs and acquire and analyze field test data
* Develop the utility value proposition for PHEVs
* Develop and test advanced battery. Develop battery production cost model
* Develop communication protocols for PHEVs connecting to the electrical grid
* Demonstrate advanced electric-drive technologies in non-road applications

Industry Involvement

* Estimated total budget: $3.0M


http://portfolio.epri.com/ProgramTab.aspx?sId=PDU&rId=117&pId=4087

An interesting set of slides from EPRI that includes a market penetration forecast for EVs I'd urge everyone to view; it is quite different than John's:
http://www.energetics.com/phev07/pdfs/Duvall.pdf.



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