Wondering...gasoline->ethanol conversions

[midnight armadillo]

From what I understand any gasoline engine can potentially burn ethanol instead, with a few caveats...among them less energy per gallon so shorter range.

I know you'd need a recalibrated engine computer and that ethanol can eat normal engine seals. Since there are plenty of cars on the road that can run E85 or pure ethanol, these are certainly already-solved engineering problems.

What's the feasibility of retro-fitting existing cars to make use of ethanol or ethanol blends?

[Medical Speaking]

1. ethanol

This can be done but the auto industries are tied into big oil.
I have said this for years, run our cars on 100% ethanol. This would put our farmers back to work growing corn, creation of jobs
to build and run ethanol plants. Would it cost more per gallon than gas? We have been told by our goverment it would cost more.
But would Americans care? I would rather pay more per gallon than to fight more WARS for oil....How much is an Americans life worth?
Just think America could be free from foreign oil!!!

Kerry 2004

[Doctor Smith]

2. I think that the real problem is

that it takes very nearly as much energy to produce ethanol from corn, as the ethanol yields.

An entire years worth of 100% of U.S. production of corn could replace only a few days worth of oil.

[midnight armadillo]

3. There are other materials

Switchgrass, as studied by the DoE (do a google search for links) yields about 230% more energy than corn for ethanol production.

Plus as a native prairie grass growing it is better for the ground than corn which depletes soil. Industrial scale production of ethanol from cellulose is possible but not quite ready for prime time.

[WVhill]

5. When you think about it,

any crop can be used for alcohol production. Corn is probably one of the worse to pick but because of it's association with cheap whisky, it comes to mind first.

[WVhill]

4. I looked into buying methyl alcohol and converting a vehicle.

That was in the seventies. A group of us carpooled so converting one car made sense. The parts within the car to be replaced are any fuel system related parts that might deteriorate when used with alcohol. The engine itself required no changes. You'd need to check any seal, gasket and possibly other non-metallic items used in the fuel system. It might be as simply as using a different fuel hose where rubber lines are used.

As was mentioned programming via the existing ECU would take care of the fuel delivery aspects to increase the flow to allow for the decreased btu content in alcohol. For a carburetted engine, increase the jet sizes by 25%. When bought in bulk and figuring in the greater quantities of alcohol needed it was less expensive during that time than regular gasoline. I really didn't check for the cheapest alcohol prices either. I was doing a rough feasibility study. In the end the complications of a bulk tank in the back yard filled with alcohol would have created a problem with my homeowner's policy. A key point is any alcohol will serve as fuel.

Another issue is that cars will run fine on less than 200 proof alcohol. In the past water injection has been used to prevent knock when timing was advanced. You might be able to cut the alcohol with water and save more money. That was one of the tests I wanted to run.

[NNadir]

6. I believe, but do not know, that flex fuel vehicles are commercially

available.

Brazil uses lots of ethanol blends, as is pointed out here by the illustrious BDog and others.

Personally, I think ethanol as a fuel is poorly advised and not very sustainable for the long term. However, if fuel prices rise significantly (as I believe they should), ethanol will probably achieve something like economic feasibility, at least in the short term, until the capacity is saturated.

For the long term however, another alternative should be found. I keep arguing for the flexible (and cheap fuel) dimethyl ether. I'm pretty well convinced that this will prove to be the ultimate solution, simply because it's the best solution.