BREAKING: Heller files suit in District Court against D.C.'s new gun laws...

[SteveM]

and asks for injunctions. Continuous updates here:

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2008/07/28/breaking-heller-files-new-gun-case-takes-aim-at-semiauto-ban/

Heller is challenging the effective ban of semi-auto pistols, and the highly-restrictive "loaded weapon" requirements of the new law, and seeks relief from "unrestricted fees" attached to gun registrants. Washington City Paper providing minute-by-minute updates.

[Endangered Specie]

1. Does anyone else here think its hilarious that he can't register a 1911?

I mean, its got to be one of the most 'PC' semi-autos around:

- 7 round magazine, not really capable of using anything over 10 practically.
- big manual external safety
- a grip safety
- .45acp: a slow bullet that wont overpenetrate and certainly wont cut through any body armor.
- typically expensive, make a lousy 'sat nite spl'
- a design is NINETY SEVEN years old

[aspergris]

2. DC will be grabbed kicking and screaming

into respecting the constitution.

It's clear that rule of law and the constitution are not going to just win them over.

[SteveM]

3. With this attitude, it's easy to see why...

"Nickles says there is a 'fundamental conflict' between Heller & Co. and the the Supreme Court’s decision. 'They don’t like the idea of having any standards of when you can load the gun for self-defense,' Nickles says of the plaintiffs. The decision, he says, 'didn’t say you can have a handgun loaded in the home in the event you might have a feeling to use it for whatever.'"

(from link above)

Yeah, Mr. Nickles, I too DON'T like ANYONE setting standards of when I can load the gun for self-defense. You got that right. Bingo.

[east texas lib]

6. Perhaps Nickles would allow you to load your weapon AFTER you've been shot...

Or maybe he just thinks pistols make nifty paperwieghts for your desk. You can't actually use one in
defense of home or person, now. Why, who do you think you are, anyway?

[MicaelS]

4. I almost wished I lived in DC

I'd go buy an 1896 Mauser Broom handle and then attempt to register it and see them run around like a bunch of chickens.

"But officer, it can only hold eleven rounds, AND it loads from the top, so that means it complies with your restrictions."

[east texas lib]

5. Hope he wins. On all points.

D.C. will probably fight this suit all the way to the SCOTUS, too. It's going to take multiple legal
ass kickings to get their minds right on this.

[DonP]

7. It's taxpayer money anyway, who cares

It's like our own Mayor Daley here in Chicago. Feel free to ignore SCOTUS because he make the laws in this city.

They will spend millions more in legal fees trying to fight this case all over again and since it's not their money why not?

If any of this foolishness getr's to SCOTUS I seriously doubt that they will allow Cert on another 2nd case for years to come, especially one that is a follow up on one they just decided. I wonder if they can deny cert with extreme prejuidice?

[derby378]

8. I'm just waiting for the response from Mayors Against Illegal Guns

How dare Heller challenge "sensible" gun laws! Can't he be happy with the scraps from his master's table?

[hogwyld]

10. I understand your sarcasm

but he should be happy with what he won. We need to respect the civil ordinances that citizens ask of their local government. Look, he can still get a revolver, which will work for personal defense. I guess the gungeon won't be happy until everyone is armed, with whatever they want, and not register anything ever.

[hack89]

11. But you can't keep it loaded?

how's that going to work for personal defense?

[hogwyld]

12. You could use a speed loader

and be loaded in about 2-3 seconds.

[hack89]

13. But what's wrong with keeping the gun loaded?

your 2-3 seconds only works if both the gun and ammo are laying out and easy to grab. What's the point?

[TPaine7]

15. You can't handle the gun! (certainly not a loaded one)

Mayor Anthony Williams of D.C. (IIRC, the Mayor just before Fenty) took a strong position against ordinary folks having loaded guns. His spokesman, Tony Bullock, explained why the plaintiffs in the recent Parker suit (predecessor to Heller) should not be allowed functional guns in their homes:

"I think it's a real myth that people would be able to arm themselves and avoid being
shot," he said. "Chances are very good that they would accidentally shoot themselves or
that the gun would find its way into the hands of a child, which is not what we want."

Source: Jon Ward, "Residents Challenge District's Gun Ban; Say they Want Them for Defense," The Washington
Times, Feb 12 , 2003.

The good leadership of D.C. was simply trying to protect people like me and you from self-inflicted gunshot wounds and keep us from arming children. Show some gratitude!

As I explain in my open letter to Obama (link below--it was written before Heller):

It is a crime in the District of Columbia to have a gun in your home that can actually shoot bullets. Guns are
ok, as long as they are useless. In order to ensure their uselessness, they must always be unloaded. In order
to be doubly sure, they must always be disassembled or bound by a trigger lock.

Making a gun useful by assembling (or unlocking) and loading it is a crime. The excuse that you are trying
to protect your family—or repel a rapist or avoid death—will not do.

The heroic Mayor and city leadership are fighting for the common people. It's for our own good.

[hogwyld]

19. Do you have children?

loaded guns and children are a recipe for disaster. Besides, that 2-3 seconds it takes to load the gun could be the margin needed to keep from accidentally shooting a family member going to the kitchen for a glass of water.

[hack89]

20. Then mandate these

so you can protect your family without endangering them.

http://www.safetysafeguards.com/site/402168/product/GV1000CDLX

[jeepnstein]

21. That's not the point.

If you want to use a common sense safety measure like a lock box for gun storage then you're missing the whole point. The point of the DC laws is to render any effort to exercise a constitutional right impossible. In doing so, they have effectively banned the private ownership of arms through a set of ridiculously Byzantine regulations guaranteed to make you a felon without you even realizing it.

I use such a lock box since I have kids in the house. It's handier and keeps the weapon clean and at the ready. It's also a safe place to keep pocket knives and my Masonic ring.

[Big Al Mac]

24. How many

cases of children (< 16 yo) being shot and/or killed by members of their own household where the adult(s) were law abiding and not illegal drug users/manufacturers/dealers can you cite having happened in the last 10, NO 20 years??????

Accidental deaths of children involving lawfully owned and used firearms has been dropping constantly since about 1933.

[Tejas]

25. So, you would shoot your own child?

Of course not.

Please don't make absurd assumptions that everyone else would shoot theirs.

[hogwyld]

26. Of course not. Nobody would kill a child on purpose

So please don't be ridiculous. I'm referring to people that hear noises in the house, and go poking around. The heartbeat is racing, the adrenaline pumping, and then, you see movement and shoot. And don't tell me that has never happened. It's happened all to often.

[tburnsten]

27. No it hasn't.

That sounds exactly like a Brady/HCI/VPC talking point, and that type of situation is so rare, I don't think I've ever even heard about it happening once. If you can find some accounts of incidents like that, please share them with us because it sounds like an urban myth.

And I sleep like a baby with a twelve gauge shotgun less than two feet from me.

[AtheistCrusader]

28. You are projecting.

Target identification is a pretty big part of owning and using a gun. Not that it's 'never happened', but it's a pretty ridiculous extreme, considering all the firearms out there in this nation, and the tiny amount of anecdotal accidental (I would say negligent) shootings that fit that scenario.

'all too often' is a rhetorical fallacy. Exactly how often DOES it happen? I can only think of a couple recent hunting 'accidents'. No 'home defense gone wrong' incidents. Even one or two is not 'all too often'.

[Recursion]

29. I think you believe anecdotes a little too readily

[TPaine7]

30. Appropriate measures should be taken for children.

If you are around young children with a gun, it should be on your person or under lock and key.

The D.C. law applies to adults without children who are under specific threat. It is unreasonable.

[Tejas]

14. "he should be happy with what he won"

In your opinion, that would be what?

[TPaine7]

16. What of a local civil ordinance establishing an official church?

There is a town in one state, Florida I believe, that is almost entirely Catholic. Do you see a problem with an official town church if 90% of the citizens agree? After all,

"We need to respect the civil ordinances that citizens ask of their local government"...

apparently without much concern for the Bill of Rights or the rest of the Constitution.

What about some of the other amendments? Providing for quartering of troops in private homes in peacetime? You could still live in some rooms. Allowing arbitrary searches and seizures at the mayor's whim? Perhaps Thursdays could be excepted. And if you're not a pretty girl (or boy as the case may be) the mayor probably wouldn't be interested in a strip search.

What do you think?

PS: I think most of the gungeon has read the ruling or is at least aware that it doesn't support everyone being armed, with whatever they want by any stretch of the imagination.

(And I had my heart set on a hydrogen bomb ;) .)

[spin]

17. True, you can use a revolver for self defense...

actually I prefer a revolver. It's simple to load with a speed loader and there are no safeties to worry about. Point, pull the trigger and you'll hear a very loud noise.

Small gun safes are available which you can open quickly and help keep curious hands from your weapon.

However, many people favor semi-auto handguns, and many find they can shoot a semi-auto more accurately than a revolver. A magazine is easier and faster to insert into an unloaded semi-auto than using a speed loader in a revolver. And of course racking the slide of a .45 auto makes a loud deterrent noise.

Registration is really unnecessary. We don't register firearms in Florida. Registration is just a unnecessary bureaucratic idea to get more money in the hands of politicians.

[benEzra]

22. The District isn't recognizing what Mr. Heller won yet,

just like the South didn't recognize equal rights for nonwhites after the initial USSC rulings, and some states didn't recognize Roe v. Wade for a while.

But they will.

And as I mentioned in the other thread, the District's refusal to let Mr. Heller register a 97-year-old design, LOW capacity, full size, VERY expensive pistol, that has been the most popular centerfire target pistol in the United States for nearly half a century AND also one of the most highly regarded defensive handguns on the market (a topic specifically addressed in the original Heller opinion) wasn't exactly the smartest battle for the District to pick.

[derby378]

23. There was this sign at the miniature golf course I used to go to when I was a kid...

It featured the rules of the course, one of which read "The speed of the course is determined by the slowest party." In short, keep your brood moving so that everyone gets a chance to enjoy all 18 holes.

Our laws are not a miniature golf course. Those of us who obey the laws should not have to sacrifice our rights because Delbert Dumbass does something stupid with his gun. In a republic like ours, the answer to crime is not to restrict our rights - it's to produce better citizens.

And I'd take a hard look at what citizens are really asking of their municipal governments, not to mention how many scare tactics these local poiticians used in order to get their constituents to beg them to keep them safe at any cost.

[Xela]

9. I hope this teaches DC a lesson...

no txt

X

[Tejas]

18. sub-thread on this in Breaking News

link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3414223&mesg_id=3414223