Obama and Gun Bans...

[virginia mountainman]

Since yesterday, their has been MANY MANY posts, about the "lie" that Obama wants to take their guns.

Let me offer some clarity and reality on this subject

Obama, has a LONG history of supporting gun control, his votes in the senate, and IL state legislature says it all.

http://www.ontheissues.org/domestic/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm

I am willing to BELIEVE him, when he says "He will not ban guns", but I am wary, expressly when the White House web sight mentions and ill conceved "Assault weapon ban"

Here is Eric Holder, on gun bans...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMWpAQ9cTJM

Notice he also gets a dig in on "cop killer" bullets.... Anyone who knows ANYTHING about guns and ammo, know that their are no such thing on the American market, and that Handgun Armor Piercing ammo, has been BANNED for several years...

Eric Holder's comments about Mexico...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK8QE0c7KYI

HRC said just about the same thing, but I cannot find a GOOD link to video of it..

Rahm Emanuel, speaking to the Republican Ran Brady Campaign..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gno78mFSVfs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vp7f1QKYmg (Sorry for the source of that video, it was the only place I could find it, BUT LISTEN TO WHAT HE SAYS.........LISTEN....... More Gun Bans...... )

Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 Talked about in many threads in the Gunguon..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blair_Holt%27s_Firearm_Licensing_and_Record_of_Sale_Act_of_2009

remember this one, from the Debates...Joe Biden,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9aIb-IplqY

We must be fair, Obama is not calling for gun bans, but, many around him certainly are...

[Name removed]

1. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tucsonlib]

2. You Call This "Clarity"?

Even if Obama enacted the AWB and banned the sale of certain weapons and ammo (which he's unlikely to do anyway), I fail to see how that would constitute "taking our guns". Equating the two is just the sort of fear-mongering that propels the gullible, the paranoid and the ignorant among us to act out like that moron did in Pittsburgh.


Yes, it is a lie (no quotations needed) that Obama wants to take our guns. And if we really want to do something positive to preserve the 2A and the RKBA we would be wise to do everything in our power to expose that lie.

[virginia mountainman]

4. If someone goes to an FFL dealer..

To purchase a gun...And it is not their due to LEGISLATION, supported, and passed by Obama...

YES, that would be "taking" them..

[tucsonlib]

13. Restricting Or Banning The Sale Of Something Is NOT

the same thing as "taking" or confiscating. Surely you can see this. Unfortunately though, there's a segment of the population who are unable to discern the difference. And when you infer that any and all form of gun control legislation means they're gonna "take away your guns", then you are feeding a lie. And a dangerous lie at that.

[aikoaiko]

39. As a gun owner, I agree with you completely.

Sure the colloquialism "take away your guns" is ambiguous, but I agree that gun bans take away access to guns in the future.

[jody]

8. Your statement "Yes, it is a lie" isn't true until Obama says "I will veto any bill that renews AWB"

The onus is on Obama and until he makes that promise, I will continue to believe he would sign a bill renewing AWB which would in fact take away a class of arms under such bills as HR 1022 that died in the last congress.

[tucsonlib]

19. Take Away From Whom?

If you walked into a Pontiac dealer with your heart set on purchasing a Gran Prix, and the salesman told you that model was no longer available (though a similar model was), would you scream, "They took away my Gran Prix! They confiscated my car!" Tell me, when the AWB was in effect, how many of your guns did the government confiscate?

Sorry, but my statement "Yes, it is a lie" would hold true even if Obama banned the sale of a class of arms. To claim that would somehow correspond to "taking away our guns" demonstrates just the sort of irrational and irresponsible thinking that gives 2A supporters a bad name.

[slackmaster]

23. If the Gran Prix is unavailable because government banned it and you are not permitted to buy a used

...one, then the government took away your right to own one.

From the perspective of someone who owned one and wished to sell it on an open market, it would be a form of confiscation (of the rights of ownership).

[jody]

25. I cited HR 1022. Please read that bill from the last congress and tell me what part of the

following authority don't you understand. Bill at HR 1022

(L) A semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General. In making the determination, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any Federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event.'.

[tucsonlib]

32. What I'm Saying Is

If you keep on promoting the ridiculous idea that Obama is planning to "take away our guns" then you're helping to breed this kind of madness:

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2009/04/richard_poplawski_accused_pitt.php


Keep it up and soon anyone who speaks up for the RKBA will be viewed, not as a patriotic American, but as a violent, racist Nazi. And the call for stricter gun control will become deafening.


And you will have the blood of innocents on your hands.

[jody]

33. Until Obama says he will veto AWB then he is planning to "take away our guns". If any president does

that and prevents citizens from keeping and bearing arms for self-defense which is a personal responsible, that president and her/his supporters will have the blood of innocents on their hands.

[virginia mountainman]

43. YEP....NT

[TWiley]

3. NRA = Gun Nut = Right Wing Conservative, or Libertarian in most cases.

[villager]

5. So you're taking the side of the Pittsburgh Cop shooter?

n/t

[virginia mountainman]

6. No..

I am just trying to correct a common misconception here on DU.

[villager]

7. "Obama's Coming for my AR-15's! Arrrgh! My manhood! My manhood!"

n/t

[virginia mountainman]

9. GROAN* Villager...I am being nice, and have been nice.... nt

[villager]

11. Yeah. Okay. You have been, and I suppose that was snarky of me

But Jesus H. Christ, what if these mass shootings continue, and there's a public clamoring -- bona fide public support -- for a sane weapons policy, as oppose to the all-out proliferation favored by gun wielders, and pushed by industry lobbyists in the NRA.

What if it becomes more politically incumbent upon Obama to restrict the free flow of certain weapons, impose background checks on gun show purchases (I'm still not sure why in the hell any sane citizen would be against that), etc.?

[virginia mountainman]

15. Okay..

The mass shootings WILL continue, they cannot be stopped, not without a full on Police State. They just had one in Germany, even with their extremely strict gun control laws. Granted, we have a an UNUSUAL amount over the past couple of weeks. Their is no way, to "put the genie back in the bottle" The Psycho's and Criminal's already have theirs.

No one is pushing for proliferation. If anything the public is pushing for LESS regulation, I am certain you have seen the CCW map that crops up from time to time.

Only very few are actively pushing for more gun control, and these are the same ones that have since the 1990's

The gun show loophole you refere to does not exist, it is a FEDRAL FELONY for a gun dealer to sell to a person without a background check, no matter where he is, a gun show is NOT a mythical place where the laws do not apply.

What you most likely are referring to is the "individual to individual" transaction. That is what gun controllers want to stop, but they know by calling it that, they will be slapped down so fast it will make their heads spin. For the simple fact that it is completely unenforceable WITHOUT complete gun registration, that is so out of the question, as to not even be discussed as an option.

It is impossible for a person to run a NICS check on anyone, only gun dealers have access to that information.

Open up the NICS system to all, I would use it.

[villager]

20. So there should less of a record of my selling a gun to someone, than selling a car?

I swear, I can't understand why people think like this.

Cars aren't "illegal," but it's a lot easier to find a hit-and-run driver than a hit-and-run sniper.

Unless it's a mass enough killing that the shooter does himself in.

As for "public clamoring," well, a few more mass shootings, and don't be so sure which side of the fence the public's gonna be on...

And yes, while Germany had one mass shooting recently to our several, it's probably not accidental that the shooter's father belonged to a gun club, yes?

[virginia mountainman]

28. Let me help you understand...

Registration is a bad thing, background checks are not..

I, along with the vast majority of gun owners, have absolutely no problem with the NICS checks, But in NO WAY will I comply with Registration, because, we saw how GWB was quick to abuse our civil rights, almost with impunity. The government should not know, just WHO, has WHAT in their closets.

Also, their has been many cases where Registration, HAS led to confiscation, in the US, for example.

In California....Back in the late 1990's I remember this vividly. Unfortunately, it is hard to find news articles from way back then, to post, so I submit this link telling all about it.

We have a reg down here, Slackmaster, that can fill you in on all the ugly details of that one.

http://www.mcsm.org/sksconfisc.html









So YES, Registration has led to CONFISCATION....

[villager]

29. If "registration is confiscation," I assume you have an unregistered car?

After all, no sense letting the government "confiscate" it, yes?

[virginia mountainman]

42. Actually, I DO....

The Farm truck is not registered, and is completely legal.

[rl6214]

37. I don't think everyone that own guns is against changes

What if it becomes more politically incumbent upon Obama to restrict the free flow of certain weapons

What weapons should be restricted? Did the shooter use a certain weapon that made it easier to commit his crime? Was he using one with a hi capacity magazine? Were they shot with his handgun, his 22 rifle or his ak47 clone?

How many shots were actually fired by this murderer? Did the type of weapon he used make it easier to commit his crime? I think these officers would have died regardless of what type of weapon he used. He wasn't rapid firing. Lee Harvey Oswald got off 4 shots in under, what, six seconds with an old bolt action rifle.


impose background checks on gun show purchases (I'm still not sure why in the hell any sane citizen would be against that), etc.?

There are background checks at gun shows IF you make your purchase from a dealer. If there is a private to private sale at a gun show, a background check is impossible because the system is not available to private sellers. It would be the same as if you advertised in your local newspaper to sell a gun. Maybe you could see about getting that changed.

[jody]

10. IMO anyone who resorts to ad hominem attacks using "manhood" to justify a gun-grabber argument is

ludicrously ignorant of the history and facts supporting the natural, inherent, inalienable/unalienable right to keep and bear arms for self-defense.

[villager]

12. Jody, are you seriously going to tell me a lot of these folks don't have their self-worth

(and we're mostly talking about men here, in spite of the NRA's faux-feminist feints) seriously wrapped up in their weapon collections?

I mean, come on...

These weapons are literally the only thing that make many of these people -- like, I suspect the Pittsburgh cop killer -- feel "powerful" in their lives. The metaphor becomes the reality.

This isn't snark now (even if yes, I have seen the ad hominem moment and in this instance, it was mine ;-) -- although hey, there was that easy "gun grabber" noun construct again...)

And whether this applies to you personally, doesn't matter. But the psychology is clearly there...

[jody]

16. OP was "Obama and Gun Bans". Is your opinion different from mine in #8? nt

[villager]

18. But the whole reason the right is stoking these "gun ban" fears

...and the whole reason that people like the Pittsburgh cop killer are acting out, is that the gun itself represents -- symbolizes -- an essential component of their personality.

It literally represents the only power they have left.

Same for the gang kids I used to teach. Guns were all about the sense of (admittedly damaged) "self worth" they gave...

So when there's hysterical reaction to this whole "Obama's gonna grab my guns!!" meme (all black or white, no discussion about possible policies on that scale of absolute yes or no), the psychology is an essential part of it.

[jody]

21. I ask again, "Is your opinion different from mine in #8?" nt

[villager]

26. Well, in the sense that if mass killings cause the public to ask for sensible weapons policy

...and Obama responds accordingly, yes and no.

In other words, I'm not gonna feel "betrayed" if he does it. Just the opposite.

[jody]

27. I ask again, "Is your opinion different from mine in #8?" nt

[villager]

30. Sigh. Oh, Jody. Time for a languorous Sunday brunch...

n/t

[jody]

31. Brunch! Sounds good to me, I'll join you, my treat. n/t

[villager]

34. hah! Deal!

Whoda thunk!? ;-)

[jody]

38. "Whoda thunk!?" I realized decades ago that I never learn by only associating with people with whom

I agree and I am ignorant about so many things beyond my particular areas of expertise.

:pals:

[villager]

40. Jeez, Jody -- you and me breaking metaphorical bread...

...I guess there's hope for Peace in Ireland!

Oh wait... ;-)

[jody]

41. My ancestors gave up on the UK in 1630s, left England and started a new town in MA.

To some, the U.S. is an experiment to see if diverse, disparate, polarized cultures can tolerate each other for some sort of common good.

If the U.S. experiment fails, then there's not much hope for a New World Order for We the People Of the World and the end result will be a New World Order for We the Corporatists of the World.

If you and I can't find common ground, then there's not much hope for the rest of the world.

[TWiley]

17. Is there an inverse inadequecy relationship between large caliber guns and penis size?

I wonder what Freud would say ...

[jody]

22. Sigmund Freud said "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity ". n/t

[villager]

24. Another good Freud quote for the NRA: "The goal of all life is death."

n/t

[Iktomiwicasa]

35. Freud

would tell you to quit making shit up.

[rl6214]

36. GROW UP

Do you have penis envy? You must if you have to be talking about someone elses "manhood".

[Pullo]

14. Here is HRC lying her arse off to Greta

HRC said just about the same thing, but I cannot find a GOOD link to video of it..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hhtpDMIXYA

That's what is so frustrating. I mean, if she wants to have an honest debate about the merits of the AWB, fine, I'm all for that. But her, several anti-gun crazy pols, and many in the media seem only able to either blatantly lie, obfuscate, or mislead while playing on peoples' ignorance and fear of firearms.

So no, I don't have a lot of trust in this Admin. regarding this issue when they continually and repeatedly engage in such dishonest discourse.