Concealed hangun in minivan saves husband and wife

[Mentalist]

Double Murder Suspect Scott Eizember Captured in Texas


Lufkin, TX - There is new information about the events that led to the capture of double murder supsect Scott Eizember. Eizember is in a Texas hospital recovering from four gunshot wounds that came from a gun concealed by one of his alleged kidnapping victims.

Authorities with the Angelina County Sheriff's Department say they received a 911 call at about 7:30 p.m. Sunday night. The caller said a man and woman, now identified as Dr. Samuel Peebles and his wife Suzanne, came to his residence bleeding and needing help. The couple told the man they had stopped to help a stranded motorist in Arkansas and that he had displayed a gun and forced them to drive south.

The Peebles did not know the man was Eizember.

While driving through Angelina County, the Peebles convinced Eizember to allow them to use the restroom. That's when an altercation ensued between Dr. Peebles and Eizember at which point Eizember was shot four times. Dr. Peebles had been able to recover a handgun that was concealed in the minivan.

Full article: http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/1103/111537.html

Chalk up another victory for citizens with concealed handguns!

[DarkPhenyx]

1. Makes me wonder if this Doctor...

...performs abortions. Most of them carry handguns these days.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mentalist]

3. No

I would have said he should have had it concealed on himself and not hidden in the car.

Guns are innanimate objects and require an operator to do anything. My guns have yet to get up and go on a killing spree on their own.

[Deaner1971]

16. Apology

Mentalist,

I apologize for opening so cranky this morning. I guess I will have to restrict myself to posting only after having consumed coffee and.or Mountain Dew to get my brain up to speed with mys dislike of mornings.

Relating to this being a victory for concealed weapons laws, I still question whether or not these types of event occur with a frequency that validates the large number of accidental deaths. I just don't think that criminals are deterred by the possibility that an individual is carrying a firearm. Even if criminals become convinced that individuals are likely to have a weapon, wouldn't they just be more likely to shoot first or shoot their victim in the back?

I think my opinion would change if there was any study that showed a negative correlation between concealed laws and gun violence. However, to date, I haven't seen one. If it is out there I would very much like to see it.

I won two hand guns that I use for target shooting, which I enjoy. However, I believe that wearing a handgun in public should be confined to individuals with more than ten hours of training.

Again, sorry for my poor manners in replying earlier.

[1a2b3c]

18. validates the large number of accidental deaths. ??

Can you back this claim up or not? I havent heard of many accidental deaths and ive been down here for over a year, spending most of my time researching gun deaths and gun laws. Most of the accidental discharges from concealed carriers comes from off duty cops, or atleast most that i have heard of.

[Deaner1971]

19. CDC data

According to the CDC (why this is monitored by the same folks that handle ebola, I don't know) in 2001 alone there were 802 accidental gun deaths in this country. If you were speaking just of deaths resulting from accidents involving concealed weapons, I conceed that I don't know that portion of the total accidental deaths. I realize that I didn't differentiate in my earlier statement so, I can see where you thought that I was referring to that segment.

I do have a question. Who governs whether or not someone carrying a concealed weapon can hit what it is that they are shooting at? Police officers and other law enforcement officials must qualify with their weapon. So too, must the military. Shouldn't actual qualification tests for accuracy and decision making be part of the conceal permit process?

[slackmaster]

20. Laws vary widely from state to state

Also from instructor to instructor within a particular state.

California and Nevada have shooting tests in which the shooter is required to achieve a certain objective score in order to qualify for a permit. But in Texas you can apply for a permit by mail order. Nevada and Texas are shall-issue states, California has a barbaric discretionary issue system that is applied inconsistently and sometimes with discrimination against minority applicants or in favor of cronies of law enforcement people.

I'd like to see a national shall-issue system that has strict, uniform requirements and grants a license that is good in all 50 states. Or a reciprocity system in which a national standard of applicant screening and testing must be met before a state's permit system qualifies for national reciprocity.

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

21. In Texas

Texas requires classroom time and a live fire range exam to prove competence with the weapon. Been there and done that. Renewals might have gone mail order with a background check, however.

[1a2b3c]

22. I was refering to the concealed weapons holders.

I never trust the center for disease control when it comes to guns. They have seem to have an anti gun agenda.

In most states you do have to qualify, though only once. I think it should be mandatory and you should have to retest every time you renew your license in all states, but thats just cause i know i would pass with flying colors :-) If you wanna learn about the qualification tests in your state or any other state i would check www.packing.org They have all the laws for all the states when it comes to concealed carry.

[slackmaster]

4. Welcome to DU and the Dungeon, Deaner1971

So, had he shot them instead of allowing them to use the restroom would you be saying that this was a "victory for opponents of concealed handguns" because the assailant had killed them both with a concealed handgun?

No, I recognize a difference between lawful concealed carry and unlawful carry. My response would be to demand proof that Eizember had a permit for his gun, which he apparently did not. I would even wager that Eizember had a prior criminal record and/or had been previously adjudicated as mentally incompentent and/or was an abuser of drugs and therefore prohibited from even possessing a gun.

The conversation would then turn to the fact that Texas and most other states do not require background checks on private transfers of firearms. Someone would hoot and holler about the misnamed "gun show loophole" and how the gun industry is "spending millions" to keep it open. I would reply by saying there is no system in place by which private sellers (in most states) CAN perform background checks, and point out that we do not know where Eizember got his gun. I would also request proof that the gun industry has a dog in the used-gun fight, which of course it does not.

The thread would quickly dissolve into the standard Gun Dungeon flame-fest, and within a day or so get locked by a moderator.

But that is not what happened. Dr. Peebles shot the kidnapper and everyone except the bad guy lived happily ever after.

[VelmaD]

6. Hang on a second...

There was nothing in that article that said that Dr. Peebles had a license to carry a concealed weapon either. So it may not have been all that "lawful" either.

Not saying that he shouldn't have had a gun and I'm way impressed with his presence of mind to manage to retrieve it under the circumstances.

[slackmaster]

9. Not enough information in the article to say one way or another

The manner in which he was carrying it (in his vehicle) may not even require a permit in Texas. I'm not sure.

You raise a good point. I would be interested to know whether what he was doing was strictly legal. If I had to bet money I would wager that Dr. Peebles does have a permit. As someone else pointed out, lots of doctors do because of death threats from anti-abortionists.

[VelmaD]

10. I'm in Texas...

so I think I'm gonna do a little research this morning (instead of working). :-) I may be able to get back to this with an answer to whether carrying a gun in your car requires a permit later on in the day.

[slackmaster]

12. Here's a piece of code that MIGHT apply

§46.15 (g)

For the purpose of Subsection (b)(2), "premises" includes a recreational vehicle that is being used by the person carrying the handgun, illegal knife, or club as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle primarily designed as temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with living quarters.

Admin Note: §46.15 (g) makes it legal for anyone who can legally own a firearm to have a loaded firearm inside the confines of a motor home, travel trailer etc. The law does not specify if the vehicle can be moving or parked. This law does not take effect till September 1, 2003.

See http://www.packing.org/state/index.jsp/texas

If the vehicle (referred to as a "minivan") qualifies as "premises" then the doctor would not require a permit. I used to drive a VW camper van. That definitely qualified as "premises" here in California (which actually has similar laws to Texas in some respects), as long as it parked legally; so having a concealed, loaded gun was always legal.

Since this is so obviously a case of self-defense I'd bet a bucket of beer he'd be no-billed (not charged) even if he was technically in violation of the law. OTOH he may actually have a concealed-carry permit.

[Romulus]

11. he was kidnapped in Arkansas

that's where the law controls what he was doing at the time of the kidnapping . . .

[slackmaster]

13. Arkansas honors Texas CCW permits

:D

http://www.packing.org/state/index.jsp/arkansas/

So IF the doctor has one, he's definitely in the clear.

[Romulus]

14. but the point is that he was *kidnapped* in Arkansas

there is no way he could be charged with violating a TX law if he was kidnapped out of state by a criminal and brought into the state against his will. Whether or not the doctor was a "law abiding citizen" while having a firearm in his minivan is determined by Arkansas law. That's all I was saying.

TX honors my FL non-resident permit, too. :hi:
Too bad I can't yet get a CCW in MD (I have to wait for the death threats to roll in) :evilfrown:

[VelmaD]

15. Dangit...and I had the answer for Texas law

From the Texas State Rifle Association's webpage:

"Vehicle Carry and Transportation: Unlicensed individuals and non-residents may not carry handguns on or about their persons while in a vehicle (specific exemption for bonafide travelers); loaded rifles and shotguns may be carried in plain view or in a case. NOTE: It is up to the individual to prove they are a bonafide traveler.

The carry of handguns "on or about one's person" has been defined by the Texas courts to include any handgun within arm's reach of an individual whether concealed or open. Under one's seat, on the dash, in the glove box or even the back-seat are spatial positions which have been held to be "on or about one's person."

Texas law exempts individuals who are carrying handguns for self-protection while traveling the state on a "bonafide" journey or engaged in a lawfully related firearm activity such as hunting or target shooting. Although police should not arrest an individual who falls in these restrictions, any doubt on the part of law enforcement could result in delays or being held or arrested. Travelers unable to maintain the classification of a "bonafide traveler" should carry their handgun unloaded, cased and locked in the trunk. Texas law contains no prohibition on the transport of loaded rifles and shotguns. Such firearms may be carried in plain view anywhere in the vehicle or secured in a commercial gun case or gun rack."

I read the actual statutes but they're a lot harder to slog through adn this summarizes the law nicely. Guess I gotta go look up the statutes for Arkansas now. Beats working. :-)

[VelmaD]

17. Found the Arkansas law

From the Arkansas statutes (edited for the relevant bits)

5-73-120. Carrying a weapon.
(a) A person commits the offense of carrying a weapon if he possesses a handgun, knife, or club on or about his person, in a vehicle occupied by him, or otherwise readily available for use with a purpose to employ it as a weapon against a person.

(b) As used in this section, unless the context otherwise requires:

(1) "Handgun" means any firearm with a barrel length of less than twelve inches (12") that is designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one (1) hand;

(c) It is a defense to a prosecution under this section that at the time of the act of carrying a weapon:

(4) The person is carrying a weapon when upon a journey, unless the journey is through a commercial airport when presenting at the security checkpoint in the airport or is in the person's checked baggage and is not a lawfully declared weapon;

(6) The person is hunting game with a handgun which may be hunted with a handgun under rules and regulations of the Arkansas State Game and Fish Commission or is en route to or from a hunting area for the purpose of hunting game with a handgun;

(8) The person is in a motor vehicle and the person has a license to carry a concealed weapon pursuant to § 5-73-301 et seq.

So, if he was "on a journey", which one would assume is the case since he's from Texas and was in Arkansas, then he's fine. If he was licensed to carry in Texas - he's also fine. If he went to Arkansas for a hunting trip - he's fine.

[Romulus]

5. talk about a "genius"

Hey, genius didn't the kidnapper have a concealed handgun too? Was his use of a concealed handgun a "victory for citizens with concealed handguns"?

The only "genius" I see is the one that could write something that vacuous. :eyes:

[Ocean188]

7. Haven't We Gotten Past this yet?

Are we still blaming machines for the crimes of people? Apologist BS or common sense? Isn't a society where everything is controlled by the government Orwellian? I think that if people started taking responsiblity for their actions and stopped blaming inanimate objects we could maybe take a step forward.
My comments refer to a deleted message. Sorry if it doesn't make sense.

[beevul]

8. I'd be calling that a.............

"So, had he shot them instead of allowing them to use the restroom would you be saying that this was a "victory for opponents of concealed handguns" because the assailant had killed them both with a concealed handgun?"

I'd be calling that a cold blooded murder.



Edited for removal of morning crankiness indicators.....