Concealed weapons on the increase in Texas...

[spin]

Texas sees rush on concealed-gun license applications: Permits may top 400,000

In the first half of this year, the Concealed Handgun Licensing Bureau at the Texas Department of Public Safety handled an average of 12,700 applications a month compared with 8,700 during the same period in 2008, a 46 percent increase.

A healthy percentage of those applicants are from West Texas, particularly from Lubbock and Randall counties. Potter County, which has roughly the same population as Randall County, has a significantly lower number of residents with concealed-gun licenses.

"The bureau hired more than 50 temporary employees to assist in alleviating the backlog," DPS spokeswoman Lisa Block said. "Thanks to those individuals, the bureau is now back to the point of entering new applications into the system as they arrive."

****snip***

"I am not surprised," said state Rep. David Swinford, who has a license to carry a concealed gun.

"People are applying for licenses because they see a need for it," the Dumas Republican said. "We have so much distrust of Congress and the president about the right to bear arms."
http://www.amarillo.com/stories/091509/new_news2.shtml

I'm not quite sure how my concealed carry permit protects me from Congress or the President's views on the right to keep and bear arms (RKBA).

[damntexdem]

1. If they stay over there in West Texas, OK.

But I'm afraid that they'll be like rabid dogs and wander all over.

[PavePusher]

13. Thanks for the name calling.

Definitely brings a certain... je ne sais quoi... to the rational debate.

[AtheistCrusader]

18. Washington State has a 29 year head start on Concealed Carry.

Come visit! No blood running in the streets of the Evergreen State, even though, we likely have more people carrying than Texas.

Edit: Hell yes, Reciprocity in Idaho and Montana. Just in time for my road trip.

[S_B_Jackson]

21. Any chance you could press your state officials a little

about reciprocity with TX? I know we'll recognize a WA permit, but it would be nice if the courtesy was returned, know what I mean? :)

[AtheistCrusader]

26. I thought it was the other way around?

Doesn't Texas have a training requirement? We don't. Background check, fingerprints, and you're good to go.

*rustle*


*rustle*

WTF

Why don't we honor Texas's permits?!

[Angleae]

35. According to Wikipedia, it's because Texas allows people under 21 to get a CCW permit.

If they are active or honorably discharged military or police. WA does not allow the exemption.

[Euromutt]

27. WA has the highest percentage of CCW-holders, I believe

Something in the order of 6% of the population aged 21 or over has a CPL. Whether they actually carry is a different question, given that the CPL provides a convenient method of bypassing the 5-day state-imposed waiting period on taking delivery of a handgun.

And, unlike Texas, we have open carry as well!

[oneshooter]

19. How do you know that "they" aren't your neighbors

After all there are more than 200,000 licensed CCW permits issued by the State of Texas. But you will not know them because concealed means CONCEALED.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[rl6214]

29. WOW, that's real grown up

Bash the western part of the state because you are afraid of guns. How about you just stay in austin and let the rest of the state be the Texas that it has always been.

[spin]

31. Be very, very afraid...

If you live in Texas people with concealed carry permits are already everywhere.

You go into Wally World and pass by that business man in a suit. Under his jacket is a Sig in an inside the waistband holster. That old gun in jeans with the bad limp has a S&W snub nosed revolver in his front pocket. The brunette in slacks with the big purse has a S&W Ladysmith 9mm revolver hidden in that purse. The guy with the fanny pack has a Glock inside the pack that he can reach in a heartbeat.

Be very, very afraid. They're everywhere and you never know who has one because they're CONCEALED.

Of course, you have absolutely nothing to fear from the legally concealed weapons. The people who carry these weapons aren't angels but they are damn close.

[Fresh_Start]

2. There you go again, being logical

"I'm not quite sure how my concealed carry permit protects me from Congress or the President's views on the right to keep and bear arms"

people with free floating fear like the people represented in this story can't be logical because they are too afraid to use their thinking brain.

[onehandle]

3. Good. With a list of names it will be easier for Obama to grab their guns.

What a bunch of suckers!

[S_B_Jackson]

22. Think that those with CHLs don't realize that it is a

de facto registration? We do. I figure what the hell, I purchased from an FFL, the government already knows I have firearms....but in exchange for my voluntarily submitting my name to that registration list, I am empowered by my state (and 30 others) to carry a concealed firearm on my person at almost all times should I deem it appropriate.

[Euromutt]

34. It might be a de facto gun owner registry, but it's not a gun registry

The state and federal governments might know I have concealed carry permit, and they can reasonably conclude from that that must I own at least one concealable handgun, but it doesn't tell them much else. So in the (admittedly highly unlikely) event that a confiscation took place, it'd take a bit more work to produce more than one inexpensive Turkish-made 9mm DA/SA; "here ya go, Mr. DEA agent, that's my carry piece. No, I had to sell all my other guns when my wife got laid off."

[Treo]

37. Gun Registry

I think New York actually requires that you list the pistol(s)you will be carrying on your permit. You are only allowed to carry those pistols listed so, to an extant, it is registration in those states

[spin]

40. Another example of stupid laws in New York...

simply a "feel good" law which insinuates that the state has to know what weapons you carry because you just might use them in crime.

Florida has a different approach. Carry a different gun on each day of the week if you want. They don't care as long as you have a concealed carry permit. In fact they don't bother to register the firearms you own to begin with. It's just a lot of paperwork and wasted tax dollars for little or nothing.

We don't have a state income tax in this state, and to be fair our state runs as efficiently or more efficiently as many states that do. California has a state income tax and they have managed to screw things up in Hollywood style.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we are in great shape by any means.

[Euromutt]

49. Same story in California

Or so I understand from that story about Sean Penn being issued a concealed carry permit by the Ross PD, and then having his car stolen in Berkeley with both of his listed CCW guns in it (and even though the vehicle was later recovered, the guns were not).

[S_B_Jackson]

41. Agree there is a slight but significant difference between

a de facto and a de jure registry. Since most of my firearms purchases have generally been through one of a couple of FFLs, they'd be looking for more than one.... :-) However, in that highly unlikely hypothetical confiscation program, I know a large number of firearms owners who'd answer the door, and say, "I'm sorry Mr. DEA agent, I was involved in a tragic boating accident out in the Gulf of Mexico a couple of weeks ago, the boat capsized and all of my firearms except this Hungarian FEG PA-63 were lost. Here's a copy of the Coast Guard report, my report of a lost firearms filed with the Galveston county sheriff's department." I've got plenty of left-over PVC pipe from a prairie dog run we used to have, and plenty of axle grease....I'm sure I can figure out some use to which they can be put............

[spin]

42. I have known a few shooters over the years...

who have stated that they had used pvc pipes and cosmoline grease to store weapons.

Most seemed to be relatively sane and rational individuals, but they did distrust big government. None were members of a militia group. All this predated Obama. Some people told me of their efforts to hide firearms during the Bush the Junior years.

Of course they might have been just bullshitting. Seems like a tragic waste of a good firearm to pack it with grease and store it in a pipe.

[Treo]

43. The people I know

That have done it don't use nice rifles it's generally a milsurp like an SKS back when you could buy them for 90$

[S_B_Jackson]

44. I don;t know.......

I'm Irish......let's say that storing all types of arms from unwarranted government attention has proven over the generations to have been handy? :) Granddad was a top kick in the army prior to WWII, and storage in cosmoline for long periods is better than not, especially if you're in an area where rust/corrosion can be a problem, like around Galveston, TX.....one of the gun magazines recently ran a story about their inspection and firing of a rifle that had been stored in cosmoline/plastic pipe for 15 years. Once it was cleaned, it was in perfect condition and worked as well as it ever had.

[RaleighNCDUer]

4. You know, that's really odd - if you are really worried about the pres coming to

grab your guns the LAST thing you want to do is to get your name on an official government list saying "I have a gun".

CC licenses are not necessary to OWN a gun, are they? Wouldn't getting the CC license just make it easier for the gubmint to find you?

[spin]

6. Most people in Florida who fear the government...

taking their firearms, always bought firearms from private owners.

There is no license require to own a firearm in Florida and there is no requirement to get a NICS background check to buy a weapon from a private owner.

And these people didn't get concealed carry permits. They either just carried without a permit or carried only when they thought they would be going someplace dangerous.

Surprisingly some of these people were well educated.

I would attempt to explain to them that the government probably uses data mining and would easily be able to determine who owns firearms. If you belong to the NRA, purchase subscriptions to gun magazines, buy ammo with a credit card or are a member of of gun range, chances are the government knows you own firearms.

You would think that since these people fear gun confiscation by the government, they would have bought into my tin-foil theory of government data mining. Strangely, none did.

[Treo]

7. Double edged sword

A CHP is also a vote. If half of your constituents are CHP holders (who paid around 300.00$ a pop for the privilege)are you going to introduce pro grabber legislation?

I think the rush on guns that's been going on since November 5 2008 ,as well as the constant references to '94, is a big part of the reason that moderate Dems are telling Obama. Pelosi and Holder to BTFO on the pro grabber agenda

[RaleighNCDUer]

9. True enough, though I'd amend your comment with

BTFO the fictional pro grabber agenda.

NOBODY IS COMING FOR YOUR GUNS.

[Treo]

10. It's really not fictional

Eric Holder has stated that he supports the reinstatement of the AWB

Nanci Pelosi has stated her support for stricter gun legislation

President Obama has voted for every piece of pro grabber legislation that ever crossed his desk as a senator

From the other side of the aisle
George the Second stated several times that he supported extending the AWB

McCain favors outlawing cheaply made handguns called Saturday night specials, and favors mandating safety locks on certain guns. He said he is intrigued by new technology that electronically identifies a person handling a gun, allowing only the owner to fire it. McCain rallied Senate Republicans behind a Democratic measure requiring background checks at gun shows.

It was Governor Ronald Reagan of California who signed the Mulford Act in 1967, "prohibiting the carrying of firearms on one's person or in a vehicle, in any public place or on any public street." The law was aimed at stopping the Black Panthers, but affected all gun owners

Twenty-four years later, Reagan was still pushing gun control. "I support the Brady Bill," he said in a March 28, 1991 speech, "and I urge the Congress to enact it without further delay."

[RaleighNCDUer]

11. Even were that so, in what way did the AWB grab any guns?

It prevented people from buying a few specific models, but all existing ownership was grandfathered in and NOBODY CONFISCATED ANY GUNS.

Preventing ownership is not 'grabbing'.

To 'grab' is to 'seize'. There have been no, and will be no, gun seizures. 'Gun grabber' is just a boogeyman scare word with no basis in reality.

The ONLY guns 'grabbed' in the past half-century have been clearly illegal weapons - unregistered automatic weapons, short rifles & shotguns - or weapons used in a crime or confiscated from criminals.

And, of course, the illegal seizure of legal weapons in New Orleans by Blackwater.

So lay the fuck off the 'gun grabber' rhetoric, and call it by what it is - gun regulation and control.

[Treo]

12. gun regulation and control.

Only affect law abiding gun owners and the Grabbers know that

If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them, Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in, I would have done it."

-Senator Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif, discussing the 1994 "crime bill", one of the largest gun control bills of the last 30 years.

EDIT Added grabber quote

[Statistical]

23. "And, of course, the illegal seizure of legal weapons in New Orleans by Blackwater."

What selective memory.

You mean the illegal seizure by local POLICE and national guardsmen (agents of the govt) acting on orders from Police Chief by the direction of the local executive.

The same Police Chief and Mayor who failed to heed a federal injunction until the Federal Judge issued a second injunction naming them specifically and threaten then with contempt of court and arrest by Federal Marshalls.

The govt who in court admitted to operating outside the law and civil rights of those who had their lawful weapons taken.

To make it seem like it was the overzelous actions of private security is a farce.

[beevul]

25. Read history much?

"Preventing ownership is not 'grabbing'."


In a proactive sense, it most certainly is.


"The ONLY guns 'grabbed' in the past half-century have been clearly illegal weapons - unregistered automatic weapons, short rifles & shotguns - or weapons used in a crime or confiscated from criminals."

Uh, what about the SKS rifles in CA?

"And, of course, the illegal seizure of legal weapons in New Orleans by Blackwater."


On the orders of (then) mayor ray nagin and/or then chief of police eddie compass.

The term "gun grabber" is simply not limited to confiscationists...it fits equally those that like to practice incrementalism under the guise of "reasonable restriction" as well.

[appal_jack]

38. Cali AWB sure did/does

RaleighNCDUer,

beevul, statistical and treo have already provided worthwhile data correcting your erroneous statement. But just to round things out, why don't we take a look at what the California Attorney General has to say:

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/regagunfaqs.php#7

12. Can I inherit and keep a registered assault weapon?

No. Pursuant to California Penal Code section 12285(b), any person who obtains title to a registered assault weapon by bequest or intestate succession shall, within 90 days, render the weapon permanently inoperable, sell the weapon to a licensed gun dealer who has a permit from the Department of Justice to purchase assault weapons, obtain a permit from the Department of Justice to possess assault weapons, or remove the weapon from this state.

(snip)

14. I want to keep my assault weapon defined by characteristics (PC section 12276.1, SB 23). What am I required to do?

If you are still in possession of an unregistered assault weapon, you may not keep it. Your only option is to relinquish it to a law enforcement agency.


15. I do not want to keep my assault weapon. What do I do?

If you have an unregistered assault weapon, you must relinquish it to law enforcement.

If you have a registered assault weapon that you no longer want to keep, you have three options:

1. Sell the weapon to a licensed gun dealer who has an assault weapons permit; or
2. Make arrangements with your local police or sheriff's office to relinquish your assault weapon. CALL FIRST. DO NOT GO TO THE POLICE OR SHERIFF'S OFFICE WITHOUT FIRST MAKING ARRANGEMENTS; or
3. Remove the weapon from this state.


16. If I did not register my assault weapon by the registration deadline, is there any way I can legally keep it?

No. If you did not register your assault weapon prior to the registration deadline, you must relinquish that assault weapon to a law enforcement agency. Failure to relinquish your unregistered assault weapon could result in arrest and a felony conviction.

Gun-grabbing, by any other name, stinks just as badly.

-app

[spin]

16. Despite all the propaganda, Republicans are not...

friends of gun owners.

I don't really mind a politician who is clearly anti-gun, because I know where he stands.

I despise a politician who claims to be pro-gun and at the first opportunity pushes draconian gun laws to appeal to the liberal voters. Republicans have sold out gun owners time and time again.

Such politicians speak with a forked tongue. (Republicans seem to often have this fault.)

[Treo]

17. They ALL have that fault NT

[spin]

39. The gun-grabbers shot themselves in the foot...

with confiscation in New York, California and New Orleans.

They can argue that gun registration has many positive points but the great majority of gun owners oppose any new form of registration.

[Euromutt]

14. We've been over this

No, nobody "is coming for" whatever guns we already own, no, and nobody's said otherwise. The run on firearms and ammunition we've seen since last November's election wouldn't make sense if the people buying the stuff thought it was going to be confiscated; after all, who spends money on something that they expect is going to be taken away?

What those people do fear is that a Democrat-dominated legislature and executive might seek to make those items unavailable for purchase later on, even while "grandfathering" those items already in private hands. And that fear is not unfounded, given that the Obama campaign's website and change.gov explicitly stated that Obama and Biden support a permanent reinstatement of the "assault weapons" ban.

In that regard, the run on firearms and ammunition makes perfect sense: people are buying them while they still can. And by doing so, they're conveying a pretty clear message that a large chunk of electorate does not want to be deprived of the option of owning these items.

[Statistical]

24. Logic and facts. The antis hate it.

The good news is the "run on ammo and guns" has a second effect.

I think it has spoiled the appetite of members of Congress to touch this with a 10ft pole (normal anti-gun nuts excluded). The sheer number of purchases, NICS checks, and CCW permits is giving them a pretty good metric of what they will face if they back any draconian restriction or ban.

[spin]

15. The percentage of CHP holders is usually around...

one or two percent of the population.

In Florida, for example, there are 627,864 valid concealed carry permits* and a total population of 18,328,340 by a 2008 estimate.** which turns out to be 3.4 percent of the population. That's hardly half of a politician's constituents. However, many gun owners often say that they plan to eventually get a concealed carry permit most never do.

Seriously, if one half of the population carried concealed on a regular basis, we probably would have NO street muggings and very few robberies of banks and convenience stores.

But it is amazing how many people in Florida own firearms and value them. Many are used for hunting or target shooting, but a significant number are used for self defense. There is no doubt that gun control plays a significant role in elections. If a politician comes from a very liberal city, he is wise to be anti-gun. If, however, he comes from a more conservative area, he's wise to be pro-gun. In north Florida where I live, I received a call from the election staff of one of my representatives to the Florida Congress and the message was, "You know how important firearms are to the people in our area and you know how strong a supporter of guns rights our candidate is." This representative is a Democrat, who has a high rating with the NRA. Of course I voted for him and he was reelected.

The liberals are pushing for draconian gun laws but the moderates in our party realize that we don't need to shoot ourselves in the foot once again. As a party, we have far more important issue to pursue and we need to maintain control of the House and the Senate after the next election.



* http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_monthly.html
**http://www.classbrain.com/artstate/publish/article_1230.shtml)

[Statistical]

20. +1. Thing like # of NICS checks, # of pro-RKBA memberships, # of CCW

are a sign of growing influence of gun owners.

They are a very clear "don't tread on me" for the Congress and Obama.

[spin]

28. Very true. It looks like the next Presidential election...

might be close. Obama doesn't need to fire up the gun owners in a close election. They might make the difference.

[Statistical]

30. That is why I am more concerned with his second term.

I don't anticipate any major anti-RKBA legislation before 2013.

It isn't that the anti's won't try.... they just don't have the votes.

We might even see some more loosening of restrictions:
* national park carry (goes into effect in Feb)
* McDonald v. Chicago striking down state gun bans
* checked guns on AmTrack (if it passes in final version will go into effect in March).
* another attempt at national CCW reciprocity
etc.

[Tim01]

32. The Assault Weapons Ban has put tons of guns on the street.

And all of those guns are owned by voters.

All of this talk of new bans has caused lots of people to become pro gun voters, people who didn't care before.

I think they may have opened the anti-gun Pandoras box, at least for a while. To go after gun rights would be just asking for it.

[spin]

33. He may make a move to pass draconian gun legislation in his second term...

but he still has to figure a way of getting the pro-gun members of his own party to vote for it, let alone the Republicans who would be singing praises to the Christian god they profess to worship.

[benEzra]

36. In most states, a carry license does not list what guns you own,

any more than your driver's license has the make, model, and VIN number of your car on it. Close to 40% of U.S. households own guns, but the powers that be have no idea who owns what. Carry licenses don't change that.

FWIW, most gun owners aren't worried about "the pres coming to grab our guns." We are primarily concerned about future availability/legality of nontraditional looking guns, full-capacity magazines, and ammunition, but (absent registration) even selective confiscation would be impossible in this country.

[lapfog_1]

5. What I need...

making a list:

1. full suit of body armor. $3500.

2. box of firecrackers. $200.

3. Plane ticket to Houston. $495.

4. Decent Hi-def Pro-sumer Video Camera and a SteadyCam Jr. $4000

New reality show of idiots shooting each other: Priceless.




(So, before all the Texans and gun nuts and so on chime in and tell me I'm one sick/wrong/etc person... well, I AM sick and twisted, but this is all in good fun, so please try to take it that way)

[spin]

8. Well I did get a good laugh out of your post....

and I'm definitely pro-gun.

[TXRAT2]

45. What this article doesn't tell you.

With the passing of new law's anybody who can legally own a weapon can carry it concealed in they're vehicles at all time's, no CCW needed. Not concealed on they’re person unless you have a CCW, but concealed in the vehicle.

[Treo]

46. That's already the case

In Colorado and i don't see any new grave yards hear

[GreenStormCloud]

47. We got Castle Doctrine also in that package of laws last Sept 1. N/T

[spin]

48. I've lived in Florida for 40 years...

that's always been the law here. And the weapon can be loaded.

There was some argument about how many steps you had to take before retrieving your weapon. Now the law states it has to be securely encased. A snap holster counts as securely encased, as does a cigar box with a hasp on the lid.

A large percentage of vehicles in Florida have firearms concealed inside.

Don't panic abut loaded guns in cars. No big deal.


edited to add more comments

[Xenotime]

50. The Fed should just give Texas back to Mexico.

[BigBluenoser]

51. Are you handing them the other 38 states that are shall issue and the 2 states...

without permit requirements as well?

I'll assume you want to keep the "cool" 'may issue' states like New York, Mass, and California (and get rid of the yucky ones - like Alabama).

And of course, you'll keep the only two states in the union that do not allow concealed carry - Illinois & Hawaii (As a bonus you get the idyllic and lovely Washington DC for free!)

So I would guess you are down to somewhere around 6-9 states and a city depending on how distasteful you find the unwashed masses in some of the 'may issue' states.

That is of course, if you really want to remove all those states with the same (or often more liberal) concealed carry laws in the country.

Cheers.

Edit: left a word out of the title by accident.

[PavePusher]

54. Oops, I think you mean Wisconson, not Hawaii.

Although, Hawaii's "May Issue" is, in practice, so restrictive as to be nearly null and void.

[BigBluenoser]

55. I'm not sure...

I'll have to check. I thought Hawaii was one of the states without a permit.

I'll look it up before my next rant in response to the "remove those icky southerners from my national latte" posts.

So... do we get to keep Hawaii then? :)

[PavePusher]

56. Look here:

http://www.handgunlaw.us/

http://www.gunlaws.com/links/

[BigBluenoser]

57. Coo... only had one of those links...

Thanks.

So what type of big kahuna do you have to be to get a CHL/CCW in Hawaii? :dunce:

[oneshooter]

52. You would sound a LOT more intelligent

If you had studied history better in school. TEXAS fought a war (2 October 1835-2 March 1836) for its independence from Mexico. It was an independent nation, the Republic of Texas, for 10 years before voting to join the Union.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[spin]

53. History is NOT taught n public schools today...

Americans are not expected to know history as that may disrupt the agenda of the rich and powerful.