Update on NJ anti-hunting suit

[Superfly]

Suit was thrown out.
--------------------

Link

On the same day that a New Jersey judge consented to the Sportsmen’s Legal Defense Fund’s (SLDF) involvement in a lawsuit to defend outdoor sports, he dismissed the case brought by anti-hunters to suspend hunting, fishing and trapping. The SLDF is the legal arm of the U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance Foundation, the nation’s leading sportsmen advocacy organization.

The SLDF joined the state of New Jersey in opposing the lawsuit. On December 1, Superior Court Judge Robert Passero ruled in favor of the SLDF’s request to intervene in the case on behalf of sportsmen. He then dismissed the case altogether.

The lawsuit, brought by Saving Our Resources Today (SORT), a New Jersey-based animal rights organization, alleged that the New Jersey Division of Fish and Wildlife has issued sporting licenses to convicted felons. To avoid future instances, the plaintiffs asked the court to suspend all hunting, fishing and trapping licenses until a background check system for all license buyers was put into place. SORT filed a similar petition with the New Jersey Fish and Game Council in October.

[vi5]

1. I'm not a hunter, nor am I a fan of guns....

But living in NJ, and seeing both countless deer on the side of the road having been hit by cars and obviously suffering slow, painful deaths, and seeing how even in heavily populated areas that bears are entering people's yards and wreaking havoc, I have definitely changed my tune on hunting.

At least most of the hunters I know of have more respect for the sanctity of nature and the nature of ecology than a lot of people I know.

I don't like it, but since I can't admit to fully understanding it I can't very well be opposed to it either.

[Wickerman]

2. I have locked the previous thread

and licked to this one. Please continue CIVIL discussion here!

:dem:
Thanks!

[Wickerman]

6. linked

that would be linked, dammit!

:argh:

[Romulus]

3. obviously

this thread is either "hooey" or an Asscrack/KKK/Neo-Nazi parroted lie. SLDF must be some sort of NRA front organization funded by the late William Pierce of National Alliance fame.

[MrBenchley]

4. Nope, rom...

SLDF is just your garden variety bunch of gun nuts....

"The Baby Einstein Company, a business created to expose children to poetry, art and music, makes contributions to the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPCA). The ASPCA is a national anti-hunting organization that has backed trapping bans in California, Arizona and Massachusetts and hound hunting bans in Oregon and Washington.
Julie Clark, CEO and founder of The Baby Einstein Company, told WLFA that Baby Einstein does make contributions to the ASPCA and that she “absolutely supports the organization.”
A second business, Kiddinaround.com, also supports the anti’s. This on-line store that sells toys, books and accessories for babies and young children is running a fundraiser for the Massachusetts Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (MSPCA)."

http://www.ussportsmen.org/interactive/features/Read.cfm?ID=635

[LARED]

5. Can someone please explain why

issuing sporting licenses to convicted felons is a problem?

Is there some reason a convicted felon, a person that has paid their debt, can't fish, trap or bow hunt?

Are these people control freaks or was this just some lame attempt to protect furry critters under the guise of public safety.

[Superfly]

7. The lack of virulent responses from a certain

you-know-who is very telling.

[MrBenchley]

8. Telling of what?

How desperate the RKBA crowd is?

Might I point out we still have nothing but the dubious word of these "sportsmen" that anything happened...or happened in this way.

You stick with the "sportsmen" and I'll line up with these folks...


http://www.sort.org/

[Superfly]

9. This entire lawsuit was an act of desparation

on the part of the SORT group...

What were they thinking? Oh, that's right...they were not.

What a bunch of complete and utter fucking idiots.

"...I'll line up with these folks"...ha, ha, ha

[MrBenchley]

10. Assuming it ever existed.....

in anything but the demented minds of the "sportsmen"...

"What were they thinking? Oh, that's right...they were not."
Gee, SORT certainly seems to have more on the ball than any gun nut source you guys have been able to dredge out of the right wing cesspools....including the current bunch of halfwits...

"The Build-A-Bear Workshop, a business that hosts Build-A-Bear parties where children may go to create their own teddy bears and other animals, is donating $1 from the sale of every black lab stuffed dog that is assembled to the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS).
The U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance, the nation’s leading sportsman advocacy group, contacted Build-A-Bear Workshop to voice its displeasure with the promotion. The Alliance urged the business to end its promotion of HSUS because of the organization’s work to eliminate all hunting, trapping and most other animal uses. Despite this request, Build-A-Bear Workshop did not end the relationship.
Build-A-Bear Workshop spokesperson Jill Saunders has not responded to numerous calls from the U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance."

http://www.ussportsmen.org/interactive/features/Read.cfm?ID=829

Don't worry, fly.....maybe the Build-A-Bear folks will let these loonies shoot the stuffed bears, or stick their legs in a steel trap and skin them...

[Emoto]

11. Bench, did you know this?

Put aside our arguments about 2A for a sec and take a look at who the HSUS is and what they are about. I believe you have been taken in.

From: http://www.consumerfreedom.com/headline_detail.cfm?HEADLINE_ID=2054

"The Inhumane Society of the United States
Posted On August 6, 2003
You might be one of the millions of Americans who have received fundraising letters from the Humane Society of the United States. Seeing the furry faces of Fido and Fluffy, you might even have sent a donation, thinking you were supporting animal shelters and pet adoption. But rather than help animals in need, your money instead lined the pockets of radicals who labor for animal liberation.

Our newest ActivistCash profile examines the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) -- a sprawling institute for animal rights masquerading as an animal-welfare charity. HSUS does not run a single animal shelter, and spends a miniscule portion of its millions giving to groups that do. This intentional deception has made it the richest animal-rights group on earth. "

[Superfly]

13. ALL of that information is published by

extreme right wingers who are being bribed by the current cabal. Don't you know?

[MrBenchley]

16. Gee, fly....

Maybe you should have looked at the home page...then you'd knnow what a steaming pantload it was...

[Superfly]

18. Look at reply 17

you need to reevaluate your party affiliation. IMHO

[MrBenchley]

15. Too TOO funny.....

Does the RKBA crowd read NOTHING but right wing horseshit?

"The Center for Consumer Freedom is a nonprofit coalition supported by restaurants, food companies, and consumers working together to promote personal responsibility and protect consumer choices.
Unlike the anti-consumer activists we monitor and keep in check, we stand up for common sense and personal choice. The growing fraternity of "food cops," health care enforcers, militant activists, meddling bureaucrats, and violent radicals who think they know "what's best for you" are pushing against our basic freedoms. We're here to push back."

http://www.consumerfreedom.com/main_faq.cfm

[Superfly]

17. Now, how is that right wing?

"The growing fraternity of "food cops," health care enforcers, militant activists, meddling bureaucrats, and violent radicals who think they know "what's best for you" are pushing against our basic freedoms. We're here to push back."

Sounds pretty liberal. Remember, the right wingers want to meddle in your affairs, not the left.

[MrBenchley]

21. Who the hell are you trying to kid, fly?

"The growing fraternity of "food cops," health care enforcers, militant activists, meddling bureaucrats"
In other words, government regulationn and consumer education....

"Remember, the right wingers want to meddle in your affairs"
No, the right wingers want to let asswipes like this bunch sell crap under false pretenses and get away with it scot-free.

[Superfly]

22. Yeah, surrrre

"In other words, government regulationn and consumer education..."
You mean like the Patriot Act?

"No, the right wingers want to let asswipes like this bunch sell crap under false pretenses and get away with it scot-free."
That may be so, I am not a right winger so I would not really know. I do know that conservatives love to tell us how to live and how to run our businesses. I also know that Dems don't want to meddle but want to hold faulty products' manufacturers liable.

[MrBenchley]

27. Too frigging funny, fly....

""In other words, government regulationn and consumer education..."
You mean like the Patriot Act?"
No, I don't mean NRA life member John AshKKKroft's Patriot Act.....I mean government regulation and consumer education....

"I do know that conservatives love to tell us how to live and how to run our businesses."
Gee, now who is that peddling all that deregulation horseshit?

[Superfly]

29. I'm not sure I understand you.

I think we are saying the same thing here, but with slightly different points of view.

[Emoto]

24. you're saying the info is wrong?

"he Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) is not affiliated with, nor is it a parent organization for, local humane societies, animal shelters, or animal care and control agencies … The HSUS does not operate or have direct control over any animal shelter."
— From a 2001 disclaimer issued by the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS)

"The life of an ant and that of my child should be granted equal consideration."
— HSUS senior scholar Michael W. Fox

"The Humane Society should be worried about protecting animals from cruelty. It’s not doing that. The place is all about power and money."
— HSUS consultant and former HSUS Chief Investigator Robert Baker, in U.S. News & World Report (October 2, 1995)

[Superfly]

26. Ashcrofft was holding a gun to their heads

when he made them say that. It's all a right wing conspiracy.

[MrBenchley]

28. Yeah, I'm saying it's a piece of shit

from a phony "grass roots" organizarion....

[Emoto]

31. Are these people wrong too?

http://www.earthvoice.org/hsus.htm

"...The HSUS's efforts in the United States are facilitated by our nine regional offices; we are not, however, affiliated with any local animal shelters or humane organizations. "

[MrBenchley]

32. Geeze, moto...

Try to get slightly more desperate, will you?

[Emoto]

35. dude...

My point was that this humane society organization is not what everyone thinks it is. I think that animal shelters are wonderful and important places. My sister ran one for a few years and my GF has volunteered at one. The people who run them are outstanding people and deserve much more pay and credit than they will ever get. That's why HSUS pisses me off, because people give to them thinking that they are supporting lots of good work, when in reality they are not. I just wanted to bring that out. When you balked at that first page I posted, I went and found another. I was trying to move past your normal suspicion of the sites that I reference because I wanted to get this across. Perhaps it was foolish of me to try?

[Superfly]

12. More right wingers, that you'd never guess....

from the SORT webpage...
-----------------------
American Forestry Association

American Forests believes that wildlife and fisheries are a critical component of healthy forest ecosystems. Hunting and fishing under proper regulation are valuable tools in the professional management of forest ecosystems.

Recreation on our forests is an important and growing use of the resource on both public and private lands. Hunting and fishing under appropriate regulation are legitimate forms of forest recreation.

-Bob Ferris, Media
------------------------
The National Audubon Society

Audubon supports hunting when sound scientific data indicates that it is necessary for the continued welfare of a particular species. While we are not a hunting advocacy organization, and we do not actively promote hunting, we do not oppose it when and where it is legal. The same goes for trapping, both commercial and sport.

- Linda Vanderveer, Press Department
--------------------------
National Geographic Society

The Society is a scientific and educational organization. As such, we do not take a stand for or against legal hunting or trapping activities; we simply report on these activities and any consequences when appropriate.

When we report on any topic, we work hard to present it accurately and objectively. With hunting, we are careful to differentiate between modern sport hunters, whose hobby supports conservation efforts, and poachers, who kill animals—often endangered species—illegally.

- Dorothy G. Lerda, Research Correspondence
--------------------------
National Wildlife Federation

…Wildlife populations are a renewable resource and under scientific and professional management can safely sustain hunting and fishing. In these situations and with public input into wildlife management decisions, NWF supports providing opportunities for those whom choose to hunt or fish.

While many people would like us to spend considerable effort either promoting or opposing hunting, they (present company included)lose sight of the fact that the real and fundamental problem facing wildlife…is not hunting but habitat degradation and destruction.

- Jon Hancock, Membership Services
-----------------------------
The Sierra Club

Sport Hunting and Fishing: Acceptable management approaches include regulated periodic hunting and fishing when based on sufficient scientifically valid biological information and when consistent with all other management purposes and when necessary total protection of particular species or populations.

- Stasea-Noelle, Member Services
--------------------------------
The Wilderness Society

The Wilderness Society views hunting as a legitimate use in wilderness areas, national forests, lands managed by the Bureau of Land Management, and certain wildlife areas, subject to appropriate regulation for species protection. Because they provide such strong protection for wildlife habitat, wilderness areas offer some of the highest quality hunting experiences found anywhere.
-------------------------------
Wildlife Society

The Wildlife Society supports regulated hunting and trapping as legitimate management techniques of wildlife conservation.

Regulated hunting and trapping are legitimate tools to be used to reduce abundant and overabundant populations. The one point that may be confusing is that we don’t use a lot of modifiers such as recreational, sport, commercial, subsistence, etc. to describe these tools. If we monitor populations that are being manipulated (up and down) to be sure the numbers are moving in the proper direction and within desired population levels, then the types of value-laden modifiers are unimportant.

- Harry E. Hodgdon, Executive Director
-------------------------------

[MrBenchley]

19. From WHERE on the webpage, fly?

[Superfly]

20. Here you go Amigo...

www.sort.org/help.php

[MrBenchley]

23. Jeepers, fly...

So I guess the claim by you guys and the "sportsmen" that SORT is an anti-hunting group was just so much bullshit. As usual. /b[]

[Superfly]

25. Creepers, Bench

those are all groups that are NOT SORT.

SORT is extremely anti-hunting as evidenced by this ridiculous suit.

B

[MrBenchley]

30. Gee, fly

If only there was some evidence besides the demented wailing of these loonies that the suit ever existed....

[Superfly]

38. Previous thread...

included an e-mail response from a court clerk attesting to the existence of the suit.

[Superfly]

14. nevermind

nevermind

[MrBenchley]

33. So at the close of the third day

...there's still no evidence this is anything but some wet dream the "sportsmen"

...the "anti-hunting group" has been identified, and turns out not to be anti-hunting at all...(or particularly allied to the Democratic party)

...and the RKBA crowd once more dragged out a far right wing pantload as an "authoritative" source...

[Romulus]

34. gee, look what I found

http://www.sort.org/show_article.php?article_id=123

State Agency Abuses Public Trust
When you can't tell the Good Guys from the Bad Guys
By Entire Team, SORT Staff Writers
Published 10-14-2003

For years now, animal-welfare advocates have been complaining that the New Jersey Division of Fish and Wildlife (F&W) is an archaic institution, corrupt (in theory) by special interests that dictate state wildlife policy. These special interests purchase hunting licenses and permits and these monies pay for agency overhead and expenses. And when only two-percent of New Jerseyans hunt, many wonder how an agency that is so dependent on hunting license fees can ignore the temptation to sell more licenses to kill more animals-regardless of the consequences.

(sounds real hunter friendly :eyes:)

*snip*

But here's the problem. The State does no criminal background checks on hunting license applicants. This means that you could have licensed hunters in your area who are actually convicted felons or have been committed for mental illness. The State of New Jersey has determined that these persons are unfit to possess or use a weapon. In fact, New Jersey statute N.J.S.A. 2C:39-7(a) prohibits these individuals from ever possessing any type of weapon, including firearms, bows and arrows, or any other instrument that is capable of inflicting serious bodily injury. Since New Jersey has made it illegal for convicted felons from possessing a weapon why will F&W routinely sell them a hunting license?

*snip*

Although F&W is aware of this issue, it has done nothing to correct the problem and ensure the public's safety. If the Agency is unwilling to abide by the intent of existing state law, perhaps Governor McGreevey should at least inform the general public of the state policy to sell hunting permits and licenses to felons- regardless of the consequences.

*snip*

Note: The SORT Organization has petitioned the State Office of Legal Affairs to address this deficient agency policy. We are awaiting a response.

*snip/end*

Gee - what's the next step if an administrative agency doesn't do what you want? That's right - appeal its decision to the courts. I think two months is enough time for these SORT bozos to get their answer and appeal it to the judicial system.


And the law in question (NJSA 2C:39-7(a)) only bars "weapons possession" by those convicted of assault, arson, burglary, escape, extortion, homicide, kidnapping, robbery, aggravated sexual assault, sexual assault, bias intimidation, endangering the welfare of a child, or illegal possession of a "destructive device" (i.e. bomb), sawed-off shotgun, silencer, switchblade/stiletto type knives or blackjacks, or hollow-point handgun ammo in public without good reason. (2C:39-1 to 39-3).

Non-believers? Look it up: http://lis.njleg.state.nj.us/cgi-bin/om_isapi.dll?clientID=43296723&depth=2&expandheadings=off&headingswithhits=on&infobase=statutes.nfo&softpage=TOC_Frame_Pg42


Nothing there about bows under the definition of "weapons," but muzzle-loaders might arguably be considered a "firearm" as defined in 2C:39-1. I guess a compound bow could be considered a "potential weapon," but so could a tennis racket or baseball bat.

[MrBenchley]

36. Gee, rom...

You'd think that a group like that wouldn't be shy about telling the world they'd filed a lawsuit...

So to sum up...there's no reason for the state to give felons huntinng licenses.

[Peaceful_Nation]

37. Hunting should be made illegal

There is no need in this day and age to have to hunt. I don't care if it's a sport or not. All it is is a bunch of maniacs with guns they shouldn't have killing and wounding animals that did nothing to deserve what they are put through. Sorry my first post is so straight forward but what's the use of beating around the bush on something you feel so strong about?

[Superfly]

39. Your post is not straightforward

nor is it on topic. You might want to think about starting your very own thread on the topic on which you posted. Have a nice day.

[slackmaster]

40. Welcome to DU

You are entitled to your uninformed, emotionally-based opinion about hunting.

[MrBenchley]

41. Just as you are entitled

to your uninformed, emotionally-based defense of hunting.

[Superfly]

42. Ha, ha, ha...that was a good one...

you really crack me up sometimes.

[slackmaster]

43. And you are entitled to post all the Straw Men you want to

If you want my actual opinion about hunting, start a thread about the ethics, morality, social issues related to hunting, etc. and I will reply.

[Superfly]

44. And I am 100% positive that

your responses will be based on years of actual experience, and not on the hyperbolic emotional garbage spewed by groups like SORT and CASH.

[slackmaster]

45. Not so much experience with hunting...

Rather my knowledge of animal population biology, the effects of human development and predator suppression, observations of what things are really like in "fly-over country" with its mosaic of farmland and forest, etc.

Banning hunting would be a very silly idea. Sport hunting needs to be regulated (as it is), but it is also a necessary part of the stewardship of the land.

[MrBenchley]

46. Gee, slack...

Why the hell would I want to hear your uninformed, emotionally-based views?

"the ethics, morality, social issues"
Do the ethics and moralitry include one screaming "Liar! Liar!" in public and then ludicrously denying that he had done any such thing? Or is that a social issue, like armed Nazis at family outings?

[slackmaster]

47. Gee, Benchley

:boring:

[Overkil]

48. "Hunting should be made illegal"

There is no need in this day and age to have to hunt. I don't care if it's a sport or not. All it is is a bunch of maniacs with guns they shouldn't have killing and wounding animals that did nothing to deserve what they are put through



I hope, for your sake, you're a vegan.......if not, then what's your angle? Animal cruelty?