2 Shot Dead At 2 Medical Marijuana Clinics

[one-eyed fat man]

http://cbs2.com/local/echo.park.medical.2.1771574.html

Officials say one man was killed and another wounded in a shooting Thursday afternoon at a medical marijuana dispensary in Echo Park. Hours later, another fatal shooting was reported at a clinic in Hollywood.

An employee of the Hollywood Holistic store was found dead at the scene following an apparent robbery attempt.

Were they being robbed for the money or the dope? I thought dopers were supposed to be mellow and peaceful? Maybe it's the cash business, like convenience and liquor stores?

Be interesting to see if the police catch anyone.

[Ian David]

1. They've been attacked by "activists" before.

Medical Marijuana Advocates Condemn Attacks on Montana Dispensaries

Billings, MT -- Medical marijuana advocates condemn recent arson attempts against two local dispensaries. Two separate attempts to set fire to medical marijuana dispensaries have occurred over the past two days. At both locations, the words "Not in Our Town" were spray-painted on the storefronts. These acts of intimidation come at the same time the city is considering a temporary ban, or moratorium, on new dispensaries, in order to allow for the development of a regulatory ordinance.

"These kinds of attacks are unacceptable and must be investigated," said Steph Sherer, Executive Director of Americans for Safe Access (ASA), the country's largest medical marijuana advocacy organization. "It is also incumbent on the city to quickly develop regulations that will better protect medical marijuana providers and keep everyone in the community safe." ASA is working with local activists to respond to the attacks by holding community meetings and urging greater protection of patients. Patients & Families United, an Helena-based support group, issued a statement today calling on Montanans to unite in strong opposition to targeted attacks on medical marijuana facilities.

In 2004, sixty-two percent of Montana voters passed Initiative 148, the Montana Medical Marijuana Act (MMMA). While the MMMA explicitly allows for caregivers to grow marijuana for qualified patients, the law is more silent on how patients can obtain marijuana by other means, such as through local distribution facilities. Absent much statewide direction, localities are taking distribution matters into their own hands.

Montana's effort to address the need of sick patients to access local distribution of medical marijuana mirrors the efforts in other states like California, Colorado, Michigan, Oregon and Washington. Both Maine and Rhode Island have amended their laws to include state-licensed distribution. The trend to ensure safe access to medical marijuana by establishing licensed distribution facilities has even extended to states currently deliberating new medical marijuana laws, such as Iowa, Kansas, Maryland and Wisconsin.

More:
http://www.safeaccessnow.org/article.php?id=6014

[Callisto32]

2. Drugs are so bad, we'll HURT people to get rid of them1!!!1!!

What insane logic.

[rusty_rebar]

9. What about...

Healthcare is so good, lets initiate violence on the population so they will buy it.

How is that any less insane?

And don't think I am just talking about healthcare here, we could use Military, roads, police, libraries, fire service, national parks, financial systems, oil companies....

All of these things, and much much more are all forced upon us, without any input on our part. The government uses violence and fear tactics to force us to pay for these (and countless other) services regardless of weather we use them or not.

So, although I agree that the logical fallacy you pointed out is in fact valid, I think you are failing to see that it is rather common, and really should not be a surprise that people act this way, given their roll model (the government).

As long as I am not infringing on your person or property, then you have no claim of damage. If we could just get back to that ideal, then I think people would be less likely to do stupid stuff like this.

*Minor grammar edit.

[Callisto32]

13. I would appreciate it if you don't tell me what I do and don't see until you know me.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=276337&mesg_id=276553

[rusty_rebar]

17. I apologize.

I was responding to the general mood that I see in this board, no so much to your statement. You are correct, I made a rushed judgement based off a 1 sentence statement that you made.

[Callisto32]

19. It's cool.

The usual suspects around this board kinda know where the others are coming from, you'll catch on.

[one-eyed fat man]

4. That's an angle

I had not considered that there might possibly be anti-dope activists in central LA. I'd have suspected California to be the virtual epicenter of recreational use.

I suspect it was about money. Someone wanted money. They believed themselves above the normal social conventions and superior to those dumb working saps. They saw a place they thought would have lots of cash and took the money. They shot someone for no other reason than they felt like it.

[slackmaster]

3. Most robbers are addicted to hard drugs like amphetamines or opiates

Were they being robbed for the money or the dope? I thought dopers were supposed to be mellow and peaceful?

Ultimately for money. They'd sell any cannabis that they stole.

[Katya Mullethov]

5. If one were to run out of crack and commit armed robbery

Was it the crack or the gun that created yet more gun crime ?

[slackmaster]

6. Crack emboldens people

To go out and get some more crack. It re-wires the addict's brain, turning him or her into a drug-seeking automaton.

Heroin does the same. I have some experience counseling addicts.

[safeinOhio]

8. Great point

Thom Hartman points out the direct correlation between income inequity and gun and knife crime.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zCiVj8MR68

When will the NRA put income equity in its platform to reduce gun crime? We've all been wrong. It is not gun laws or the number of gun owners and legal carriers that dictate gun crime. It is a high disparity in incomes. Want to lower your chances of being a victim of crime, push for higher taxes on the rich and better safety net and social programs along with better educational opportunities for those that can not afford them now. We've been arguing about apples, when along the question is about oranges.

[PavePusher]

11. I didn't realize that addressing "income inequity" was part of the NRA's charter...

and raison d'etre.

Can you cite to that?

[safeinOhio]

14. Their attention to gun crime should

include income inequity as it is a proven cause. Oh, that's right, gun crime is only an issue when it can be used as fear against liberal politicians. Please go back to the October 2008 issue of their magazine and see how many of the predictions about Obama came true. Do they use gun crime to promote their agenda? They have antidotal evidence of crimes stopped every month, yet no facts on the relationship to income inequity. Seems if they are so concerned about crime they'd consider both self defense and a just society. I'm for both. That is why I'm a democrat and not a member of the NRA.

[PavePusher]

15. "That is why I'm a democrat and not a member of the NRA."

No true Scotsman, eh?

Whatever.

Oddly, I didn't notice crime control being part of their charter either. Although they do notable work training both law enforcement and Citizens in certain crime control techniques.

Imagine that.

[safeinOhio]

16. If they stuck to that I'd support them, however

their undying support for Sarah Palin and Sharon Angle puts them at the top of my list of the real danger to America. A good portion of every political dollar they spend goes to people like, or even worse than those two.

[PavePusher]

18. They support people who support the Second Amendment.

What else are they supposed to do?

I'm not sure why you are complaining. If you do not like the fact that fewer Dems support the Second Amendment than Repubs, start screaming in your Dems ears. Don't complain about the NRA for living up to their avowed purpose.

[cowman]

24. Ummmmmm

Maybe you better recheck the Sharon Angle angle, the NRA has endorsed Harry Reid, not Angle

[friendly_iconoclast]

27. Let's just say it's not their first time with that sort of thing:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=322802&mesg_id=322838


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=322802&mesg_id=322858

I fail to see how quoting someone is a "smear", but that's just me...

[one-eyed fat man]

28. Income inequity?

If that's the reason, explain why there have generations of poor people who didn't steal? They may have had jobs and circumstances which didn't allow them to become wealthy, but they didn't go into liquor stores and stick guns in peoples' faces "redistributing wealth" to be more equitable.

Poverty makes people poor, it does not automatically make them thieves. Criminality is a choice. Criminals truly believe that the rules the rest of society follows do not apply to them. They scoff at those silly middle-class values like having a regular job and see those that do as chumps and marks for the picking.

That the tables get turned on them on occasion and some person refusing to be a victim blasts them into eternity is a net gain for society.

[Katya Mullethov]

20. From the mouths of babes

Comes such wisdom and eternal truth . Does he assume they will all rush out with their newfound gains and purchase both a conscience and sense of common decency ?

What he refuses to accept is that the flood of other peoples money will force the price of compassion and impulse control to careen upwards, spiralling completely unhinged from inflation . At some point they will be forced to turn to predatory lenders who will write them upside down notes they cannot read so they can purchase these precious commodities they can no longer afford (again)only to be left holding the bag when the decency bubble finally bursts . And they will blame it all on someone else and get drunk ,as it doesnt really matter . There will be more money along soon enough .

[Euromutt]

7. Dopers themselves might be mellow and peaceful...

...but the people who make money supplying them are most assuredly not. I've cited estimates before on this forum that ~60% of the Mexican cartels' revenue comes from sales of marijuana in the U.S. The Netherlands has a slow but steady trickle of wholesale cannabis dealers being liquidated by competitors, the most conspicuous incident being a few years ago when the target's car was riddled with automatic weapons fire.

As long as any aspect of a business is illegal, criminals will try to control those aspects, and they're going to hurt people to safeguard or increase their revenue. We could be looking at private anti-drug activists here, but my money would be on small-time punks wanting to get some marijuana to sell.

[montanto]

10. Pretty big leap to impugn "dopers" when there aren't even suspects yet.

But, as one of the said "dopers" (albeit legal, peaceful, and mellow) I can tell you that some of the shops that I have been in have inventory on display that could easily be worth ten thousand dollars cash on the street. Inventory that could be turned around for that kind of money in just a few days. No one could knock off a liqueur store so successfully. Do you think that isn't temptation enough for someone addicted to hard drugs to go and pay fifty bucks to get a medical dispensation simply to get through security to rob the place? Of course it's a cash business, its expressly against the law for dispensaries to "sell" weed. They can only legally accept "contributions" in cash. No doubt it's about the theft of that all too easily converted inventory however. All of these places have security cameras. I'd be shocked if there aren't any photos to work with.

[one-eyed fat man]

12. That is true

It's a little early to impugn dopers and, aside from it being a tongue in-cheek remark, they probably were to mellow to do it. However, as pointed out elsewhere, it is doper cash that fuels the gangs that do the wholesale distribution and "market share expansion."

Sorta like pretending no cow died to to be the Big Mac you had for lunch because you didn't butcher it yourself. So while no single individual American doper killed any Mexicans in Juarez today, their CASH paid for the ammunition, like it or not.

[Katya Mullethov]

21. The 100 tobacco plants growing in my backyard are worth a LOT of money

But its mere presence , readily visible from over a 1000 feet in the air , does not subject me to confiscation of my property and real estate holdings* . Yet . The same cannot be said about cannibas , just as easily grown and many times more expensive due to prohibitionist regulation .



* As long as I do not process it and sell it in avoidance of numerous local , state, and federal taxes .

[slackmaster]

23. You're fooling yourself if you think you are safe growing your own tobacco

Even when you use it privately and it never leaves your property, you are depriving your state and federal governments of tax revenue because of all the commercially-grown stuff you aren't buying.

Think of the children who won't be getting free school lunches because of your selfishness.

[AtheistCrusader]

26. It's legal in most states.

If I smoked, that's what I would do. Probably a bit healthier for you too, if any measure of smoking can be deemed such.

[benEzra]

22. Just like the cash of people drinking alcohol

it is doper cash that fuels the gangs that do the wholesale distribution and "market share expansion."

Sorta like pretending no cow died to to be the Big Mac you had for lunch because you didn't butcher it yourself. So while no single individual American doper killed any Mexicans in Juarez today, their CASH paid for the ammunition, like it or not.

Just like the cash of people drinking alcohol fueled Al Capone's Prohibition-era operations.

The fault wasn't with the drinkers, though, but with the neo-Puritans who voted to hand the legitimate alcohol market to thugs and gangsters via Prohibition. Repealing Prohibition quickly dropped the murder rate and reduced the influence of organized crime, and today you don't see Anheiser-Busch doing drive-bys on Coors distributors or having shootouts with police.

We have exactly the same dynamic going on here. As long as the law gives thugs and gangsters a near-monopoly on cannabis distribution, then thugs and gangsters will have a strong interest in the cannabis trade. Legalize it, and you take it out of their hands.

[one-eyed fat man]

25. Precisely right

Prohibition was termed the Noble Experiment and was supposed to cure all sorts of social ills. Dissolute drunkards were no longer going to be able to beat their wives, neglect their children, or be a burden to their God-fearing neighbors. So convinced were they that alcohol was the cause of virtually all crime that, on the eve of Prohibition, some towns actually sold their jails.

What happened instead was widespread disrespect for an unpopular law. In fact, disregarding the Volstead Act became downright fashionable. Never before had Americans such little regard for the law. Respectable citizens were lured by the romance of illegal speakeasies. The loosening of social mores during the 1920s included popularizing the cocktail and the cocktail party among higher socio-economic groups. Still, while the self-righteous "progressive" elites who pushed for Prohibition said, "Drink was the curse of the working class," Al Capone pointed out, “When I sell liquor, it’s called bootlegging; when my patrons serve it on Lake Shore Drive, it’s called hospitality. ”

The money and ability to corrupt government at all levels was and continues to be the legacy of Prohibition. The gangs were not put out of business by the repeal of Prohibition. They had the organization and the capital and merely shifted from booze to drugs. Not only are we still suffering from the criminal enterprises that failed Noble Experiment left us, we haven't learned the lesson and are empowering newer, more brutal, and more sophisticated gangs with the failed War on Drugs.

What prohibitionists of every stripe refuse to acknowledge as long as there is a demand for a commodity, someone, somewhere will attempt to fill that demand. The question has to be answered is society better off taxing and regulating it or suffering the negative effects of production and sale by a criminal enterprise.

[SteveM]

29. Some speculation on who is doing the killing...

It is now rather common practice to attack addiction treatment centers in Mexico, wherein MANY clients AND staff are murdered. Why? Because some of the addicts have previously been associated with one cartel as an operative, and the other cartel(s) don't like it. The killers don't stop with shooting the rivals.

I hope this is not a sign of things to come in our country, but major Mexican gangs are already setting up shop in many cities. Such is prohibition.