Mon City man creates a stir with gun at hospital

[struggle4progress]

By Pittsburgh Tribune-Review
Tuesday, December 7, 2010

... No charges were filed because the physician told police ... she was worried because Williams was angry and carrying a gun in a holster, city police Sgt. James Vogel said.

Williams, who showed officers his gun permit, admitted to police that he told the physician: "If one more doctor tells me it's normal for a baby to cry, I'll throw them through the window." ...

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/valleyindependent/news/s_712631.html

Nothing to worry about! He's got a permit and he's not threatening to shoot people -- he's only threatening to throw them out of windows

[Cirque du So-What]

1. I feel so much better

seeing that he's got a permit (is the sarcasm smiley really necessary?).

[PavePusher]

27. So, you never got snippy with unhelpful people? Facsinating, I'm sure... n/t

[LongIslandGuy]

2. Gotta Get Rid of those guns, man

[cleanhippie]

11. What an in-depth and compelling argument, man.

:shrug:

[RSillsbee]

17. If you took every gun off the streets of America

You would still have a crime problem.

However, if you took every criminal off the streets of America you would not have a crime problem

[spin]

19. Very true! (n/t)

[wikileaksfan]

26. What are you going to do with the "criminals"?

Shoot and kill them? The US has the most people in jail per capita than all the advanced nations and still has the highest murder rate of all the advanced nations. The gun lobby and it's minions always want to create this mythic criminal element that we need to fear. I've found criminals are much less dangerous without guns.

[RSillsbee]

31. I think you miss the point

The sentence was supposed to read

If you took all the guns off the streets in America you would still have a crime problem but if you took all the criminals off the streets you wouldn't have a gun problem.

[Euromutt]

32. No, we obviously need to get rid of windows

Because if there were no windows, nobody could make good on a threat to throw someone though one. Problem solved.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

3. Would this be any different if he had a medical marijuana license or pocketknife?

Despite being upset, he did not use his firearm illegally nor threaten to. Period.

Using the non-firearm related actions of a gunowner to deride other gun owners... that fails the test of logic. Hey, I'll bet he had a shirt and shoes on too - Does that mean people who wear shirts and shoes are more prone to violence as well?!? :eyes:

[Orrex]

4. Excellent point

After throwing the doctor out the window, I'll bet he planned to flap his shirt at them and then maybe click his heels.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

7. true...

But at least the stock market might've juped 30% if that happened.

[emulatorloo]

5. Dunno, seems weird to carry a loaded gun to a hospital.

Not so weird to wear shoes and a shirt though.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

6. Seems weird to you.

I've been armed in a hospital before.
It's not all that different than being unarmed, really.
It is what we make of it, I guess.

[X_Digger]

8. Took my wife for her 2 week post-surgical check-up last week, and I was armed.

I'll never understand the moral hand-wringing over being prepared for a rare possibility.

:shrug:

[emulatorloo]

9. well you have a right to bear arms for sure. I guess only you can decide when it is appropriate

[X_Digger]

16. If I ever get a functioning crystal ball, I'll stay in bed on the days I'd need it.

I don't go places where I think I might have to use it. It's the places where I don't expect to have to use it, but might, that I carry for.

[RSillsbee]

40. To some people

A fire arm is an item of dress. You get dressed you put it on like a wallet or a watch.

[spin]

10. Quite often when a person gets a concealed carry permit ...

they head to a Walmart and do the "Walmart Walk".

Walking around with a concealed weapon does seem weird at first. After a few minutes you realize that everybody is so engrossed in their cell phones that you could probably walk around with an S&W 500 hanging openly on your belt and most people would never notice.



After a while, carrying a concealed weapon everywhere it's allowed becomes second nature. You don't really consider it unusual or weird. In fact, not carrying your weapon feels weird.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

13. LOL, the "Walmart Walk"... so true.

the first few times you're totally weirded-out, nervous, and shifty.
It only takes a short while to feel normal and realize everyones not aware of your sidearm.
Eventually you stop wearing a hat, sunglasses, and dressing like the unibomber too. :7 :tinfoilhat:

[Euromutt]

22. Some people react strangely to others giving birth

See my post #20 below. You'll generally find that the maternity unit has heavier security than the rest of the hospital, and there's a reason for that. Abductions of newborns are rare, but they do happen, and there are always possible situations with psycho exes.

[cleanhippie]

12. Not seeing an issue here.

made no threats to use his weapon...

[Orrex]

14. If the doctor was carrying a weapon and had shot the man, could he reasonably plead self-defense?

[cleanhippie]

15. Probably not.

But who knows. Threatening to throw someone out of a window probably does not constitute a reason to shoot someone unless they started to physically assault someone.
What do you think?

[Orrex]

18. I think that I probably wouldn't be inclined to bring a weapon to the birth of my child

But hey, that's just me.

One wonders: did the young man bring the gun to the child's conception, too? Of course, it probably wasn't concealed at the time, but...

[Euromutt]

20. I can think of some reasons why one might, though

I remember taking a class at the local hospital on the delivery process, which concluded with a guided tour of the maternity wing. One of the nurses at the front desk took a mischievous delight in telling us (a class of mostly 30-something college-educated middle-class yuppie types) "If you have a restraining order against anyone, you will need to provide us of a copy of the order and a photograph of the person in question."

There are thousands of stories of psycho ex-partners showing up at the hospital uninvited and behaving, shall we say, erratically. This ranges from ex-boyfriends who are the kid's biological father but the mother dumped them (usually with good reason) showing up drunk, to one of either parent's exes flipping out because that person is having a child with another ("instead of me, his/her True Love™"). And possibly even showing up with a couple of hired goons. Seriously, it happens sometimes.

[Orrex]

21. That's an interesting point--hadn't actually thought of that

I know that hospitals go to considerable lengths to keep newborns accounted for while on the premises, and that's a great idea, but I guess it's not the whole equation.

[cleanhippie]

37. Thats nice, but you are dodging the question?

Thats not answering what was asked.

[Orrex]

39. The question was "what do you think?" and I stated what I think.

Also, you should check out the rest of that subthread, because I pretty much conceded the underlying point.

I still wouldn't likely bring a gun to the delivery room, but now I can see that others might reasonably perceive a threat-level sufficient to justify it.


Any other questions?

[cleanhippie]

41. Fair enough.

[struggle4progress]

25. A lot of the gun self-defense doctrine I've seen simply involves "feeling threatened" without

requirement that the feeling be reasonable in any sense

[friendly_iconoclast]

29. That's rather vague. Please elaborate, if you would.

Why don't you post some examples of said doctrine so we can discuss? This is most definitely the place for it.

[cleanhippie]

38. I really do not know what you are trying to say.

[Atypical Liberal]

23. This just in! People with firearms make off-hand angry comments!

>Williams, who showed officers his gun permit, admitted to police that he told the physician:
>"If one more doctor tells me it's normal for a baby to cry, I'll throw them through the window." ...

News at 11! People with firearms make off-hand angry comments when frustrated!

[struggle4progress]

24. Physically threatening someone while in possession of a firearm presents multiple dangers

[X_Digger]

35. If a nurse with a syringe in her hand said..

"If one more idiot tells me that they need another pillow, I'm going to throw them out a window!" would you feel the same way?

Note, same ability to kill, same "threat" doesn't match the "deadly implement"..

[Atypical Liberal]

42. Do you think it was a real threat?

Do you think when the guy said he would "throw the next doctor who told him it was normal for babies to cry out a window" that he was serious?

I doubt it.

And I don't think it has anything to do with whether or not he had a firearm on him.

I mean, if he was really serious, don't you think he would have just threatened to shoot him?????

[PavePusher]

28. Just like everyone else!!1!11!

In other news... water, still moist after all these years.

:spray:

[lawodevolution]

30. this story shows that

An angry law abiding gun owner will not necessarily randomly pull his gun out and shoot someone.

[friendly_iconoclast]

33. You weren't supposed to notice that, dammit!

We were just supposed to hyperventilate at the notion that a law abiding gun owner got angry.

How very human of him.

[jazzhound]

34. The antis just can't help themselves.

Day after day they prove that otherwise sane Dems misplace their brains when it comes to the gun "control"/gun rights debate, and literally morph into hyperbolic, faith-based "debating" Repubs.

[Euromutt]

36. Yet another badly written headline...

Notice the subtle but important difference between:

"Mon City man creates a stir with gun at hospital" and

"Mon City man with gun creates a stir at hospital"

Because Mr. Williams did not use his gun to create a stir, which is what the first sentence (the original headline) suggests. Instead, he created a stir while happening to have a gun on his person. But he didn't draw the gun, and the most combative thing he said did not involve any reference to firearms.