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Yavapai Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 06:30 PM
Original message
Mexico's drug war: Number of dead passes 30,000
Do we all remember when Charlton Heston said "when guns are outlawed only the outlaws will have guns?"

Mexico has extremely strict gun control laws that keep guns from the average law abiding citizens! Right now, Mexican citizens cannot have legal guns other than hunting rifles or shotguns to defend themselves with. See the result below.

Mexico's drug war: Number of dead passes 30,000

More than 30,000 people have died in drug-related violence in Mexico since President Felipe Calderon took office four years ago, the government says.


Almost 12,500 have been killed so far this year, a sharp increase on 2009.

Mexico's attorney-general said the number of deaths was "regrettable", but showed that the security forces were having success in their fight against the drugs gangs.

President Calderon has sent thousands of troops to battle the cartels.

The latest figures were announced by the attorney-general, Arturo Chavez.

He said 12,456 people had been registered killed in drug-related violence so far this year, compared to 9,600 in 2009, bringing the total to 30,196 since President Calderon took office in December 2006.

But he said the figures reflected the "desperation" of the cartels in the face of pressure from the security forces.

Mr Chavez said the government had seized record quantities of arms and drugs and captured or killed 10 of the 24 most wanted drug traffickers.

The Mexican government says many of the deaths are the result of fighting between rival gangs over territory and smuggling routes into the US.

Most of the killings are concentrated in certain regions, particularly the northern border states.

The border city of Ciudad Juarez alone has seen 3,000 killings so far this year, ten times more than in 2007.

Critics of Mr Calderon's policies say they have increased the level of violence without reducing the flow of cocaine and other drugs into the US.

Human rights groups have also raised concerns that using the military has exposed civilians to possible abuse.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-12012425

The score:
30,000 4 years
7,500 each year average
625 per month
20 1/2 per day



As far as the violence coming across the border that many on this site deny, well see the two stories below:

Authorities hunt for fifth suspect in killing of Border Patrol agent

Authorities combed the rugged terrain west of Rio Rico on Wednesday, searching for a fugitive suspect in the deadly shooting of a Border Patrol agent.

Four other suspects were detained immediately after Agent Brian A. Terry, 40, was shot late Tuesday in the Peck Canyon area. But a fifth eluded capture and was last seen heading south on foot in blue pants and a blue-and-white-striped shirt.

Police radio chatter early Wednesday afternoon noted a possible sighting of the suspect on the western slope of Atascosa Peak. Shortly after the radio report, the Nogales International witnessed a Department of Homeland Security Blackhawk helicopter circling over the peak, approximately 15 miles northwest of Nogales and less than 10 miles from the U.S.-Mexico border.

~~snip~~

The area in and around Peck Canyon has been plagued in recent years by border bandits, with Border Patrol agents, hunters, rancher and illegal immigrants regularly reporting encounters – sometimes violent – with armed men. It’s no coincidence that Terry was working in the area, Judd said.

“Anywhere that we know that bandit activity is taking place, that’s where BORTAC goes,” he said. “If BORTAC’s out there patrolling that area, it’s a bad area."



http://www.nogalesinternational.com/articles/2010/12/15/news/breaking_news/doc4d09568e425a6966776152.txt



La Familia Michoacana operating in Washington D.C.


12/15/10 WTOP News - WASHINGTON - Authorities blocked a notorious Mexican drug cartel from gaining a foothold in the nation's capital with a series of arrests and indictments in a massive trafficking scheme, police said Wednesday.

Eight illegal immigrants were arrested over the weekend in Georgia and North Carolina, and on Tuesday a federal grand jury in the District indicted all eight plus a ninth man who remains at large.

Authorities said they seized about 80 pounds of crystal meth with a street value of more than $3.5 million, by far the largest meth seizure in Washington's history. The previous record was about two pounds.

"Usually we see (crystal meth) the size of pebbles," said John Torres, special agent in charge of the Washington office of U.S Immigration and Customs Enforcement. "In this case we're talking icicles."

D.C. Police Chief Cathy Lanier says they also seized 10 gallons of liquid meth, more than 1,000 grams of cocaine, 11 pounds of marijuana, three guns and more than $35,000 in cash.

Those arrested have links to the "La Familia" drug cartel in the Mexican state of Michoacan, police said. Authorities were eager to keep the cartel from gaining a foothold in Washington because of its reputation for brutality.

"They have no qualms about using violence _ murder, kidnapping," Torres said.

Cartel members are especially dangerous to the U.S. because they refuse as a matter of honor to sell drugs to fellow Mexicans, Torres said. So they're always on the lookout for export markets.

"It's almost cult-like down in Michoacan _ they don't want to turn their own Mexican citizens into drug addicts. But they have no qualms about selling it here," Torres said.

The Washington region in particular was an attractive market because, historically, the city has not been exposed to high levels of crystal meth abuse. That could change quickly, Lanier said, if it became readily available because of the drug's highly addictive nature.



http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2010/12/la-familia-michoacana-operating.html

Maybe when "our" esteemed politicians find their kids, grand-kids, Friends and neighbors turning up beheaded and hanging from overpasses they might start seeing the Mexican invasion as something besides cheap labor and start doing something fucking real about these problems.




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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. END THE DRUG WAR NOW - - - - LEGALIZE EVERYTHING
Seriously!
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Newest Reality Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. + Megarecs
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. If you want to eliminate Nanny State shit, this is the ONLY start...
Add to it the unconstitutionality of the various drug laws (seizure of homes, etc) and you have a winner for the worst nanny state idea

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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. I Totally agree. Prohibition never works. (n/t)
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lepus Donating Member (312 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
21. The blood on is on the hands of prohibitionists.
Nothing stops what an authoritarian thinks is a good idea. The more people violate a law, the harder it must be enforced regardless of consequences.

Little known fact. It is estimated that the US government lethally poisoned over 50,000 of its own citizens during prohibition trying to keep people from drinking.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
27. I don't know about everything, but marijuana and cocaine are a good start.
I think a prescription-like system for obtaining harder drugs would be of value, to help find people who are abusing drugs and get them into rehab.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. Actualy you can have guns in Mexico as long as they
Are registered and a few other procedures are followed.

Oh and the guns coming in are coming from OUR side of the border.

And that is all I will say...
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. You forgot something. There is only ONE legal gun store in Mexico.
It is in Mexico City and is owned by the government.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. What you are thinking off is the
Manufacturing plant, about ten minutes from where my parents live.

It is owned by the army, but you can still find quite legal ammo.

Look I grew up down there.

No, I cannot go to wally mart to buy a gun... but you can still go to another store in Mexico city, El Palacio de Hierro, where you can still buy hunting weapons.

There is quite a bit of paperwork, but people do OWN weapons and buy ammo down there.

Moreover, it is NOT part of the general culture to go out to the range once a week... and people are fine with it.

When I was a young kid we used to go to the Palacio, which is a PRIVATE business, and I used to oooh and ahh at the hunting rifles... behind a glass case of course.
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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Sorry, most guns are banned in Mexico. Learn it. That's the way it is
Most countries that ban guns allow SOME guns, like Mexico. Mexico only has one gun store, while the US has tens of thousands. Mexico only has one gun store because the federal government of mexico closed all the private gun stores. In the USA if the feds closed all the gun stores and kept one open and you had to get permission from the secretary of defense to buy one (like in Mexico) that would be a gun ban.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Since I grew up down there I think I have a better clue
Edited on Thu Dec-16-10 08:22 PM by nadinbrzezinski
on how this works than you do. I even had to read that CONSTITUTION and know of a few LEGAL owners.

They have a slew of things ranging for a museum piece, revolution era Mauser, to 30-02 hunting rifles to even pistols both automatics and revolvers.

By the way the museum piece is not a working gun... the firing pin broke a LONG TIME AGO... but it looks nice on a wall.
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Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Pistols and revolvers ? That's good news .
Might you have heard from your countrymen if Don Alejo was in fact armed with a brace of 30-02's as has been rumored ?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I got no clue why that be good news
but whatever.

I also know that the AR-15s, AK-47 and yes Stingers... came from the US... or the black market. Mostly the US. (The Stingers came from the black market via Afghanistan)
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Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. The Stingers they're shooting down all those helicopters and planes with ?
Yeah , I heard about that .
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. YOU heard of the ONE and SINGLE passenger plane?
that has never been officially acknowledged? Oh and this been years well before Calderon took over.

Suffice it to say they do have them. I mean one was captured, assume they got more.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. The M16's, M4's, M203's, grenades, etc. in the news certainly originated in the USA....
but not from the civilian market. In the USA, they're restricted to government/military sale and government export under Title 2 of the U.S. National Firearms Act.

I also saw a news report yesterday that the Wikileaks papers discussed a huge amount of gunrunning from Guatemala to Mexico. The weapons coming from Guatemala would almost certainly be genuine military AK-47's (not U.S.-market non-automatics) and RPG's, but there could be some Warsaw Pact handguns in the mix as well. I am constrained at the moment from checking out that lead due to the recent government directives on viewing Wikileaks material, but former Warsaw Pact stockpiles from Central America flowing into Mexico have been known for quite a while.
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Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. You mean ... you.. you
you talkin' about commie hardware . Say it aint so !!
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. What's really remarkable is how little play that's getting in mainstream news media
A quick Google search for "WikiLeaks Mexico Guatemala" corroborates your claim from a number of sources, but damn near none of them from any major English-language news source. At most, a handful of newspapers in border states mention it, and even then it's mostly in passing in op-ed pieces.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Maybe we spend too much time worrying about the Second Amendment ...
when we should be more concerned with the First.
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #15
26. Define "came from the US"
I mean, with how many interim stops?

The idea that the narcotraficantes could acquire a working Stinger that had originally been shipped to Afghanistan is highly implausible. Having undergone some rudimentary training with the Stinger (including sessions on two simulators) during my military service, I can say with some authority that a Stinger is, by infantry standards, a pretty complex weapon system. It's not just a question of "unpack missile tube; attach missile tube to launcher unit; track and shoot." The Stinger a heat-seeker, and to achieve that, the seeker head has to be super-cooled while tracking the target. The power required to do this is supplied by a battery about the size and weight of a 28-oz. can of tomatoes, which holds enough charge to power the cooling unit for 30 seconds at most. What it boils down to is that if you don't get a lock on the target in short order, you have to break off to change the battery. To keep a Stinger launcher operational, you need a steady supply of charged batteries (the batteries hold their charge for about four years, so beyond that point, you'd better have a charger, and a power source for it). Without those batteries, all you have is an unguided projectile.

Short version: it strikes me as way more plausible that any Stingers that made their way into the hands of DTOs did so the same way any American-made weapon system that's off-limits to private citizens does: via a Mexican government agency. Admittedly, a Stinger requires more exclusive access than an M16/M4 variant. It's no secret (except if you work for the NYT or the WaPo, apparently) that state police forces are all too often in the DTOs' back pocket, and purchase M4s and the like from American manufacturers, only to sell them directly to the DTOs. But in the case of "MANPADS" (MAN-Portable Air Defense SystemS), well, that takes a military force. Maybe the guys from the Grupo Aeromovil who deserted to form Los Zetas several years ago. They were probably responsible for popularizing the .50-cal anti-materiel rifle with the DTOs as well.
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Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. And then there's the 30 year old propellant problem
Or maybe they were pulling some of the bullets on that vast cache of 30 ought 2 ammo and using that for a propellant . WTF not ? Call it " Pinche Proyecto Hijo Mayor" .

You probably already know that Mexico and Venezuela import SA18's . So there is a possibility , however remote , that if anyone ever did manage to shoot down a plane in Mexico , it could have been done with one of those . Just a wild assed theory , it was probably Ronald Reagan Stingers .

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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Can you own a .45 auto or a .357 magnum or a 9x19mm Parabellum?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Yes, it requires quite a bit of paperwork
with the Department of Defense and a background check.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Interesting . I had heard that civilians were limited to calibers under .38.
FEDERAL LAW OF FIREARMS AND EXPLOSIVES (Mexico)
Translation by David B. Kopel & Ruben Medardo Tapia, Feb. 15, 2009.



Article 9th
People are allowed the possession or carrying, under the terms with the limitations established by this Law, arms of the following characteristics:

I. - Pistols of semiautomatic operation of caliber not superior to .380 (9mm.), however excepting pistol calibers .38 Super, .38 Commando, and also in 9 mm. calibers the Mauser, Luger, Parabellum and Commando, as well as similar models of the same caliber of the excepted ones, of other brands.

II. - Revolvers in calibers not superior to .38 Special, with the exception of the caliber .357 Magnum.

The farmers in cooperatives, cumuneros and day laborers of the field, outside the urban zones, may posses and carry, with a single declaration, one of the above-mentioned arms, or rifle of .22 caliber, or a shotgun of whichever caliber, except of those of barrel length shorter than 635 mm. (25), and those of higher caliber than 12 (.729 or 18.5 mm.).

III. - Those mentioned in Article 10 of this Law

IV. - Those that are integrated in collections of arms, by the terms of Articles 21 and 22.

Article 10
The arms that can be authorized to sportsmen for shooting or hunting, to possess in the home and to carry with a license, are the following:

***snip***

The persons who practice the sport of hunting can be authorized to have revolvers of greater caliber than the ones indicated in the 9th article of this Law, solely to complete their hunting attire, and having to carry them unloaded. emphasis added
http://www.davekopel.com/Espanol/mexican-firearms-statutes.htm

Do you mean that if you are rich or connected you can get a license to carry a firearm the ordinary Mexican citizen can't? (Kinda like New York City)
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. No, but I know people who have them
hell, that was not a legal toy... but I took a 25 from one of my patients.

He was a drug dealer and had his inside his belt buckle.

I might add, like I said above, there is really NO GUN culture in Mexico.

So for the most part people really DON'T CARE to have them.

Now cal 45 is off civilian hands as that is still the official side arm of the army.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. A 30th of our prison casualties.
60% of prisoners in for drug offenses.

900K out of 1.5M
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Yavapai Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I bet the Arizona Death Panels could be eliminated if
those people in Arizona prisons for just drug offenses were turned loose. Then the corresponding prisons closed and
the money would be then used by "Her Cuntess, the Majestic Jan Brewer" to fund transplants.

I agree, the first Prohibition didn't work out for America, what makes these authoritarian asshole leaders think it is
going to work better this time around?
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Bobbieo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. Just wait until the ruthless bastards start getting Congressmen hooked on speed.
Think it can't happen - take a good look at Boner. We've got a helluva lot more than Muslim terrorists to worry about!
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
28. I have to agree that our politicians see illegal immigration as cheap labor ...
and the Mexicans who cross our border to work as the modern day equivalent of slave labor.

A fair immigration policy would protect Mexican workers from unfair employers and guarantee that they have the same pay and rights as American workers.

Also more than 5000 people have died attempting to cross the border and many have been robbed or raped.

Reforming immigration law should be a top priority for our Congress.

Our "War on Drugs" was lost years ago and needs to be reconsidered. Prohibition always fails.
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