Intensity of violence in Egyptian protests 11 times higher than US wars in 2010.

[lawodevolution]

300 people are dead in Egypt from the violence that has occurred during the protests.
In 2010, the US had 462 combat deaths in the 12 month period. Let’s look at the magnitude and intensity of the rate of death in the Egyptian protests compared to the US wars.

462 deaths over 52 weeks = at a rate of about 8.8 deaths per week spread over a large area of land
300 deaths over 3 week period = 100 deaths per week mostly around large cities in Egypt, mainly Cairo

The rate of death was 11.3 times higher during the protests in Egypt than the US wars in 2010, so it seems to me that the rate of violence in Egypt was extreme and should be a concern to us.

How did the rate of violence in Egypt become so extreme? Gun control happens to be run by the government and results in the government controlling who gets to own the guns. Mubarak used gun control to ensure that pro-Mubarak people had guns while the protesters were disarmed. The pro-Mubarak protesters didn’t seem to be afraid to attack the anti-government protesters
Yemen had similar protests during the same time period although much smaller. There were pro government and anti-government protests at the same time and not far apart. No one had the upper hand when it came to guns and there were zero deaths and little violence.
The anti-gun control side seems to think that the Egyptian government was a powerful sovereign entity that decided to give up after people protested in the streets, but that is far from the truth. Egypt is heavily dependent on the US for foreign aid and Mubarak’s presidency was more vulnerable to outside forces than internal forces. A weak government would be easily knocked over by throwing rocks; however, a strong independent government would not have thrown in the towel to a bunch of people throwing rocks in the street.

[TheCowsCameHome]

1. OFFS.....

*groan*

[orwell]

2. You seemed to have left out...

...the people that the US soldiers killed in 2010.

I guess some would call that an inconvenient truth...

[lawodevolution]

6. not too concerned about the 300 deaths in egypt then?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

8. I have concerns with your premise and stated them but what is really unsettling

are those who unrec but refuse to state where they feel the premise is flawed.

That's not debate, that's just griping.

Perhaps your premise has errors but can be refined. Perhaps that is what aggravates them the most. If your premise is even remotely correct then theirs is wrong and facts, even if late-coming, are too emotionally disconcerting.

[lawodevolution]

11. I'll fix it later and post it again

[Katya Mullethov]

25. Recs mean nothing

Absolutely nothing

[golddigger]

3. Are you leaving out civilian deaths for some reason.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

4. An interesting premise

But in all fairness it is too soon to draw conclusions.

Many of those deaths could have been police shooting looters (perhaps extreme but arguably "justified") or people killed by apolitical lawlessness. I also read reports citizen neighborhood patrols had been formed against criminals exploiting the crisis.

Certainly there was violence against the protesters and maybe even some violence by the protesters and this violence was pervasive but it is simply too soon and confused to know how much of what played which role.

[rog]

5. My first (proud) unrec.

This is an exceptionally asinine post ... in my opinion, of course.

.r.

[xchrom]

7. unrec. nt

[OregonBlue]

9. Complete and utter drivel. How many civilians were killed in the U.S. wars in 2010?

We killed more civilians in Pakistan alone with drone strikes. I can't believe any DUer would be this clueless. What was the point of this obviously flawed bit of non-research?

[lawodevolution]

10. so you don't care much about the 300 people killed in egypt either if it doesn't help

advance your political views.

[msongs]

12. dead people don't count if they are foreigners nt

[Nuclear Unicorn]

13. That's not his premise.

If the Egyptian protests were non-violent whence came the body count?

I noted some of those numbers could have been police shooting looters, citizens defending themselves from apolitical lawlessness or victims of apolitical lawlessness.

But there is still a body count due to the political violence. Odds are the protesters suffered the brunt of it and the Mubarak stooges were more than likely confident of that fact.

One fact does ring through - there was political violence and it was substantial for such a relatively brief period of time.

[Posteritatis]

23. If his premise is made on broken statistics then his premise is also broken. (nt)

[sharesunited]

14. If the Egyptian Army hadn't refrained from using its guns, this analysis would be meaningless.

So you need guns to fight supporters of the government who aren't in uniform?

Is that the fallback argument?

[AtheistCrusader]

15. Not exactly a meaningless point.

After all, the military didn't intervene on either side for a time, while Mubarak supporters and police killed protestors.

I would think a couple armed protestors might have something to say about a police van racing down a side street, running over protestors.

[sharesunited]

16. And such retaliation could very well have brought the Army into the conflict.

This seems to be just more futile pro-gun spin.

[Straw Man]

17. Perhaps you missed the fact that...

...the Army tacitly backed the protestors and had actively defended them from Mubarak's thugs. What we saw today was actually a very quiet military coup.

Make no mistake: guns were involved in the transfer of power. It's just that they were held by men in uniforms, and fortunately did not have to be used.

[sharesunited]

21. Uniformed peace keepers. I like that. Sounds like civilization.

[Straw Man]

26. So you're an advocate of peace through superior firepower?

Or is it all about the uniforms?

[Callisto32]

18. Uh....that kind of ignores all the NON-Americans killed and maimed for piss-poor reasons, yes?

[jpak]

19. What a stupid post - the unarmed protesters won (and another proud unrec)

If Egypt had the same level of gun ownership as the US - there would have been bloodbath.

EPIC gun Fail

yup

[lawodevolution]

20. Nope, it would have been like Yemen where there were zero deaths during their protests

[jpak]

22. Nope - it would have been mass murder and mayhem

No well regulated militia or private gun ownership needed to protect Egyptians from their government or overthrow their government.

no guns required

RW militia argument fail

yup!

[lawodevolution]

24. But what was required was dependence on foreign powers

The government of Egypt didn't hold any of the cards and the protesters depended on foreign influence to win. Still the massive level of violence the emboldened pro Mubarak engaged in was disturbing, that's what you get when the government uses gun control to decide who gets to own the guns.