GUNS IN THE NEWS - 13 May 2004

[Pert_UK]

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[Pert_UK]

1. Man Shot Dead in Arrest Attempt (London, UK)

"Investigations are continuing after a 23-year-old man was shot dead by police in south London.

He was shot by officers who were trying to arrest him after he had failed to appear in court to face firearms charges on Wednesday.

The man was pronounced dead in Raymead Passage off London Road, in Thornton Heath, at about 1125 BST. A hand gun was found, Scotland Yard said."

From:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/3708897.stm

FYI, although Brit police aren't routinely armed there are a number of specialist firearms officers including those in ARVs (Armed Response Vehicles). It would be standard practice to use armed officers to arrest anybody where there was a realistic chance of them being armed.

[FatSlob]

2. Concealed carry scrutinized (OHIO)

http://tinyurl.com/2spf7

My commentary: My neighboring state, Indiana, has had concealed carry for nearly 80 years, the sky hasn't fallen. I doubt it will fall anywhere. Concealed carry is goog policy.

[CO Liberal]

8. Old News - Published May 7, 2004

[FatSlob]

9. So, do you have any comments on the story?

[CO Liberal]

11. Yes

It's more than 24 hours old, and soes not belong in this thread.

[FatSlob]

14. Come on, Wayne.

I'll post it elsewhere for you, if you'd like.

[MrBenchley]

3. Bush signs bills nixing gun range lawsuits and gun owner lists

Scummy Jebbo Bush...he's gun rights all the way. Ever notice that the politicians doing the NRA's bidding always are?


"Gun range owners received almost total immunity from lead cleanup lawsuits and police were banned from keeping comprehensive lists of law-abiding gun owners, under bills signed Thursday by Gov. Jeb Bush.
The National Rifle Association praised Bush for signing the bills, both of which were pushed hard by the gun-owners' group."

http://www.gainesvillesun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040513/APN/405130773

[OpSomBlood]

4. Minor detail:

"The bill, however, requires state environment regulators to set up a protocol for how gun ranges should prevent lead contamination of their property and nearby land and water. Among the ideas that will be part of the plan is the use of lead-free ammunition."

And as for "comprehensive lists of law-abiding gun owners," what exactly is the legitimate purpose of such a list?

[MrBenchley]

5. The main reason

is to solve crimes, op....but hey, far be it from any gun owner to do anything that might aid that.

[OpSomBlood]

6. If they are "law-abiding" how does listing their names solve crimes?

That doesn't make sense.

[CO Liberal]

13. Because...

...even "law-abiding gun owners" can become criminals. Such as when they shoot a loved one.

[OpSomBlood]

15. So gun ownership in and of itself is suspicious?

Seems a little authoritarian.

[CO Liberal]

20. Not Authoritarian....

...just realistic.

[Wcross]

19. even "law-abiding gun owners" can become criminals...

Law abiding penis owners can become rapists. Shall we require DNA samples to be submitted?

[CO Liberal]

21. Ah, The Classic "Apples & Oranges" Argument

A standard pro-gun ploy.

[OpSomBlood]

22. It's not apples and oranges.

Your claim is that mere ownership of a gun is a legitimate reason for law enforcement to "keep an eye on you"...thus the penis-rape analogy. Either way, it is the tool (no pun intended) a criminal uses to commit a crime. However, every person who owns the "tool" shouldn't be considered a suspect.

[CO Liberal]

23. No One is "Keeping An Eye" On Anyone

Using your "logic", the Colorado Department of Motor Vehicles must suspect that I'm going to use my truck to kill someone, since they made me register it.

[RoeBear]

26. Nah...

...they just want to be able to tax you.

[slackmaster]

28. You registered your truck voluntarily

Your choice. There would be no jail time for not registering your truck, even if you drove it unregistered on public roads. The worst you'd face would be a small fine.

[CO Liberal]

32. That Is Such a Lame Argument, Slack...

...that I'm not going to even bother with a response.

[NorthernSpy]

48. not lame...

(fixed typo)

CO, you have to register a motor vehicle if you plan to use it on public property -- ie, drive it on public roads. Vehicles that are driven only on the farm or other private property needn't be registered, I don't think. The fact that we're required to register our cars for certain uses on public property doesn't really constitute a precedent for requiring the registration of all privately held guns.


Mary

[slackmaster]

52. The people calling for gun registration want to make it a crime

To keep your gun locked away safely in your home and not register it.

I think the parallel holds up pretty well. The "cars vs. guns" analogy always results in accusations of apples/oranges comparisons against whichever side brought it up.

[CO Liberal]

54. Mary, Mary, Mary....

Wake up and smell the coffee.

[MrBenchley]

56. One wonders if our gun nuts

have vast fleets of unregistered cars they drive around on their lawns, considering how regularly this idiocy pops up.

Beep! Beep! Watch out for the rose bush!

[slackmaster]

57. Lots of people own unregistered cars

You can see them at racetracks any day of the week. I know a man who owns seven or eight unregistered classic cars, Packards and such. He keeps them garaged, in mint condition.

[CO Liberal]

64. And They're So Quick to Parrot the Standard Pro-Gun Line....

...they don't realize how foolish they sound.

[MrBenchley]

68. Meanwhile...

three hours have passed and there's not a single pro-Democrat post on those gun nut forums.

Are you surprised? Me neither.

I wish we had somebody who could create some artwork for Iverglas' Harry Humvee campaign. Jump and roll, kids!

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OpSomBlood]

81. Nobody is surprised that we don't take orders from Benchley.

And I seemed to notice quite a few pro-gun Democrats posting in the very thread where he made the demand.

[slackmaster]

82. It's amazing he can pretend they aren't there

It must take some powerful self-deception to ignore what's right in front of one's face.

[MrBenchley]

83. Nobody is surprised by "pro-gun Democrats"

or fooled...

[Wcross]

87. they don't realize how foolish they sound...Same could be said n/t

[iverglas]

60. ah, those fruit baskets

When someone drives an unregistered vehicle in public, can you imagine a way in which the driving of it would not be open and notorious? Have the Klingons shared their cloaking technology with us yet?

Ever tried to slip a Volvo in your back pocket? Your purse, maybe?

Might it just be possible that it is a good deal easier to control the driving of unregistered vehicles in public than it is to control the carrying of unregistered firearms in public? There they are, great big hunks of metal shining in the sun. And thus that it might not be really necessary to require that vehicles that are not intended for driving in public not be registered, since we might notice them if they venture on-road?

Might it then be just a tiny bit worth considering that we really would not be wise to rely on anyone's assertion that "heavens to betsy, no, of course I'll never take this gun off my homestead!" as a way of ensuring that unregistered firearms aren't being toted around in public?

And it's also just such a little bit easier for anyone who has acquired a firearm through theft or an illegal transfer to walk around in public with it, too, than for the driver of a stolen or illegally transferred car to drive around in public with it. Not quite as much incentive for thefts of motor vehicles and illegal transfers of motor vehicles (by people planning to keep and use them personally) as there is for thefts and illegal transfers of firearms, I'd say.

People who steal cars for their personal use don't generally tuck them away for a rainy day.

Why would anyone engage in the illegal transfer of a motor vehicle? For the vendor, there's little benefit; the purchaser might avoid taxes and repair costs and insurance payments if s/he doesn't register ownership, I suppose. Firearms? Well, one biggie would be that the person might not qualify for a legal transfer, and such a person might just be planning to use the firearm for a rather nefarious purpose. And yes sirree, that's exactly the kind of person whose acquisition of a firearm one wants to facilitate by not requiring registration of ownership. Few people go looking for cars to steal, or purchase illegally, specifically in order to commit crimes or otherwise cause harm.

All in all, I can see quite a lot of differences between the manners in which firearms and cars are possessed and used, and those differences suggest to me that the reasons for exempting some of the one group from registration don't really apply to any of the other group.


None of this constitutes a "precedent" for requiring the registration of firearms, of course. The purposes of registration differ in some ways. Nonetheless, given that the parallel you attempted to draw disregards some important differences between the two things, it really is not conclusive of the issue.

.

[slackmaster]

69. I can forgive your ignorance if you've never driven much in California

About 10% of the vehicles on the road at any given time have expired registration.

Why would anyone engage in the illegal transfer of a motor vehicle?

Can you provide a concrete example of a vehicle transfer that would be ipso facto illegal in the US, without doing a goalpost move or adding conditions?

[iverglas]

73. so?

About 10% of the vehicles on the road at any given time have expired registration.

And how might you know that? Perhaps ... drumroll ... from looking at their licence plates?

Now, how is it, again, that we would know that everyone who swore never to tote his/her unregistered firearm off his/her homestead never actually did so?

I'm sure you appreciate that the failure to enforce a registration requirement by charging violators for violations that are obvious to the naked eye is hardly evidence that it is not enforceable.

On the other hand, I'd say that the invisibility to the naked eye of yer average firearm in a pocket, or firearm in a purse, or firearm in a car trunk, or firearm in a duffle bag, is pretty good support for the claim that a registration requirement that exempts firearms whose owners promise not to carry them off their property is not enforceable.

Seeing that distinction yet?

I'm sure you will also see the distinction between an unrenewed registration and non-registration. Right? If not, just ask.

.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[iverglas]

86. as we used to say

have you no shame? As in: isn't it embarrassing to say such things?

You're afraid of guns and gun owners.
You're not afraid of cars or car owners.
I find that patently absurd ...

Hey, I find it patently absurd and so much more -- but you're the one who said it, so I have to wonder what you're up to. Saying false and patently absurd things in public ... is this something that therighter.com should maybe take an interest in?

Yes, I'm quite aware of the distinction and it brings up another relevant point: Registration always comes with registration fees, which recur and can be increased arbitrarily at any time.

Oh, dear, yes. I don't feel like ferreting out the cost of registering a firearm in Canada right now, but did you miss what I posted the other day about the cost of a firearms licence? Sixty dollars (that's Cdn, mind) for five years. Christamighty, what are they trying to do, make sure that nobody can feel his/her family anymore??

Oh, okay; you make me look. And I'm shocked, I tell you.

http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/en/general_public/news_releases/abc-freeregistration.asp

By law, firearm owners must register all their firearms by January 1, 2003. In order to register, all owners must first be licensed.

The registration fee is $18 if all firearms are registered at the same time. Unless a firearm is transferred to another owner or modified in a way that would change its legal classification, registration is a one-time process. There will be no renewal fee.

Bloody hell. Someone who first acquires 100 firearms at the age of 18 will, by the time s/he dies at, say, 98, have paid ... 18x$12 + $18 ... $234. (Okay, okay, some of those costs will probably go up, just like the price of milk, but we'll talk constant dollars.)

In fact, anybody who complied with the new law by the deadline got to register all his/her firearms FREE of charge. Taxpayers like moi covered the costs for them. Now, granted, the $18 was an introductory offer. After January 31, it costs $25 to register the transfer of a firearm. And yup, I can see how that's going to be completely prohibitive, a total bar to someone exercising his/her rights, alrighty.


Nobody has to register any object or pay a recurring fee to continue owning it, at least not in the USA AFAIK. Registration and licensing pertain only to usage, not possession.

Mm hmm. Whatever. And when you come up with a way to distinguish between the "usage" and "possession" of a firearm in such a way that anyone's claim to be permanently in possession of one and never use it can be verified or relied on, you be sure to let me know.

Once again, we have that distinction thingy.


Requiring all firearms or all fire extinguishers or all doorknobs to be registered in order people to continue owning them would be unprecedented, don't you think?

Well ... leaving aside that tiny unimportant matter of the distinctions among the fruit in your basket ... I suppose it might be unprecedented in the US. That would hardly make it "unprecedented", though.

I'm sure you do know, though, that ownership of loads of things is registered, in practice. In many cases, registration protects the owner. In the case of firearms and motor vehicles (and boats and airplanes ...), it protects both the owner and the public.

Of course, we could also just stop defining the problem away.

What is being registered isn't "a thing", it is information. The information that Person A owns Firearm X.

And in that way, it is pretty much exactly the same as registration of the information that Persons A and B are married, and Persons C and D are the parents of Person M, and Person E is dead, and Persons P, Q and R are shareholders in listed company Y. All of that information is required to be registered where you're at, no?

All for different reasons. But the common denominator is that the state and/or the public has AN INTEREST in having accurate information about the situations in question.

Just as the state and/or public does in respect of information about the situation in the case of motor vehicles ... and firearms.

.

[MrBenchley]

7. 'Not enough gun crime' in NSW (Australia)

Remember, gun nuts peddle the phony Australian bloodbath here with monotonous regularity...

"THE NSW government has abandoned a proposal to establish a special court for gun crime after a report found there was not enough firearm crime in the state to justify it.
The report by retired Supreme Court judge Gordon Samuels found that while such courts were of some use in the United States, in Australia – which has one-twelfth the number of firearm murders – there was no need for them. "No grounds exist to support or justify the creation in NSW of a specialist gun court or the pursuit of any other initiative adopted in the United States," Justice Samuels wrote.
"The volume of gun-related crime in this state is small and the statistics available to date do not indicate any increase." "

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,9551067%255E1702,00.html

[OpSomBlood]

10. 1/12 the number of firearm murders, 1/15 the population.

Australia's population: 20 million.
U.S. population: 300 million.

[MrBenchley]

16. Keep peddling the phony bloodbath, op....

It demonstrates how rotten the gun rights cause is from stem to stern...

Australia has about the same population as Texas: 20 million give or take a few. Austrlaia has gun control, Texas next to none...

In a typical year:

Australia....300 gun deaths
Texas.....2,600 gun deaths

Australia..…23,314 robberies (with and without guns)
Texas.........30,230 robberies (with and without guns)

[OpSomBlood]

17. If Australia has one-twelfth the NUMBER of gun homicides...

...and one-fifteenth the population, then they have a higher gun homicide rate than the U.S. It's fairly simple math.

I don't know if those homicide figures are correct, I merely extrapolated them from the article you posted.

[iverglas]

24. "extrapolated"?

You didn't "extrapolate" anything.

You took the fact stated in the article -- "<Australia has> one twelfth the number of firearm murders" -- and juxtaposed it with another fact -- "<Australia has> one-fifteenth the population".

You then INTERPRETED the first fact as meaning something. You adopted one POSSIBLE meaning of that statement.

Now, anyone hanging around here reading this stuff for even as long as you appear to have done really, really, really has to be presumed to know a little bit of something about levels of firearm homicides in countries other than the US.

Such a person would therefore know that reading "one twelfth the number of firearm murders" in the way you did -- which would result in Australia having a HIGHER RATE of firearms murder than the US -- would create a nonsense.

So a sincere, honest person of goodwill would automatically say to him/herself: gee, IS THERE ANOTHER POSSIBLE MEANING? Is there a meaning that does not lead to a false nonsense?

Amazingly enough, there is. There is the meaning that would be understood by anyone who paused for a nanosecond to appreciate that s/he was reading not a statistical treatise, but less formal speech. The meaning that goes "one twelfth the number of firearm murders per capita", or "proportionately, one twelfth the number of firearms murders". The meaning that was obvious to a drunken baboon. The meaning that, I'd bet the farm, was obvious to you, too.

But hey, we're always up for a good game of equivocate-the-tail-on-the-donkey around here, eh?

.

[OpSomBlood]

34. It is simple math.

The report by retired Supreme Court judge Gordon Samuels found that while such courts were of some use in the United States, in Australia – which has one-twelfth the number of firearm murders – there was no need for them.

One-twelfth the number of murders. Nowhere does it say "rate" or "per capita" or "proportionally"...it says one-twelfth the number.

I am merely interpreting the facts as they were presented in the article. If the article is factually incorrect, then that is the fault of the person who wrote it.

If Australia has one-twelfth the number of gun murders of the U.S. and one-fifteenth of the popluation, that means the rate of gun murders is higher in Australia. Like I said, I don't know if that figure in the article is accurate.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OpSomBlood]

41. Quoting the article makes me a complete moron?

You're the one claiming that we're supposed to assume that the writer meant "one twelfth per capita" when in fact he wrote no such thing. He even went so far as to write "one-twelfth the number".

And considering that the article was about the volume of gun crime cases in NSW (not the rate), it is safe to also assume that he indeed was referring to the number of cases vs. the number of cases in the U.S.

So if Australia has one-twelfth the number of gun cases but one-fifteenth the population, their rate per capita is higher.

It's really not my problem if simple mathematics stumps you so.

[iverglas]

51. gosh, it doesn't look much like you want an answer

Does it?

(Or did someone else decide to, uh, "misinterpret" what I said and go whining about it? Come out, come out, whoever you are: identify the violation, using my own words, in full and in context.)

I gave my answer already. You can call what you did "quoting the article" if you like. That isn't what I, or any decent and intelligent person I know, or much of the rest of the world would call it ... but there y'are.

You can also claim not to know that your characterization of what was said in the article is false. Me and the rest of the decent, intelligent people in the world will judge that claim on its merits, and I'll bet you know what we'd characterize *it* as.

.

[slackmaster]

55. You posted a personal attack and it got deleted

Get over it, iverglas.

[OpSomBlood]

58. I didn't even Alert it.

The article was about the volume of gun murder cases not necessitating their own court. It was an article about number of cases. The article even said one-twelfth the number.

I mean, what the writer "really" meant is glaringly obvious...to iverglas.

[iverglas]

62. yeah, eh?

I mean, what the writer "really" meant is glaringly obvious...to iverglas.

And to anybody else who doesn't wander around the world "understanding" perfectly intelligent and honest people to have said outrageously moronic and false things.

Me and all the rest of us, we never understand (or claim to understand) perfectly intelligent and honest people to have said outrageously moronic and false things, particularly when an alternative explanation of what they said is readily available. That, of course, does leave the others, whom we would indeed, and with little question, understand to have said such things.

.

[OpSomBlood]

65. If the numbers presented were "outrageously moronic and false"

Blame the writer of the article.

[iverglas]

67. if the dog hadn't stopped

to poop in the woods ... well, there'd be a shortage of raw materials for an awful lot of posts hereabouts.

If the numbers presented were "outrageously moronic and false ...

If wishes were horses, pigs would fly?

.

[OpSomBlood]

71. I can't discern a single coherent thought in that post.

n/t

[iverglas]

74. haha!

I can't discern a single coherent thought in that post.

Hey, once again -- you said it, not me.

Who needs my comments when you make the points yourself??

.

[MrBenchley]

77. LOL!!

Some answers are so obvious as to seem silly.

[iverglas]

61. nuh uh

And I still challenge anyone who likes (surely somebody can meet the challenge) to identify it.

Not the first time that someone's inability to understand very plain English has worked against me, and undoubtedly not the last. I'm afraid it's the dull-wittedness of it all, and not the deletion, that's hard to "get over".

.

[OpSomBlood]

63. "One-twelfth the number" is VERY plain English.

Pity you don't recognize that.

[iverglas]

66. so, was this plain enough for you?

"Me and all the rest of us, we never understand (or claim to understand) perfectly intelligent and honest people to have said outrageously moronic and false things, particularly when an alternative explanation of what they said is readily available. That, of course, does leave the others, whom we would indeed, and with little question, understand to have said such things."

Feel free to express the thought in your own words. I'll be sure not to comment, since stating the obvious and correct is such a sin.

.

[OpSomBlood]

70. I interpreted the article as it was written.

This is a pretty interesting insight into your mindset. Just as my direct interpretation of the exact figure presented in the article is "moronic and false," gun manufacturers' total compliance with the stated terms of the AWB is "sidestepping" and "exploiting loopholes."

[iverglas]

75. wow

Just as my direct interpretation of the exact figure presented in the article is "moronic and false," gun manufacturers' total compliance with the stated terms of the AWB is "sidestepping" and "exploiting loopholes.

Just as an apple is shiny and red and makes excellent pie, the thing that is small and purple and makes fine wine is an orange. And they are obviously the same thing!!

.

[slackmaster]

79. I read it, I understood, and apparently someone whose opinion matters

Agreed with me.

Do you ever get the slightest inkling there might be a problem with your writing style?

[iverglas]

85. unfortunately

I read it, I understood ...

A claim to have "understood" something to mean something is really not sufficient rebuttal of a claim that it did not mean it, is it now? Nor, of course, is the authority of any person, including a person whose opinion of something might be all that is required in order to do something in particular, evidence (let alone conclusive evidence) of the reality.

Remember OJ Simpson, eh?


Do you ever get the slightest inkling there might be a problem with your writing style?

In this case? Not at all. The mere fact that someone "misunderstands" something I write doesn't make it un-understandable.

You might well claim to be surprised if I told you whom and what I in fact write for, and even directed you to samples. Oh well, eh?

.

[slackmaster]

18. Apples to oranges comparison

"gun deaths" is not the same thing as "gun murders".

[iverglas]

25. I don't think you've just helped yourself

If Australia has 300 "gun deaths" a year, then pretty obviously it has fewer than 300 "gun murders" ...

But hey, maybe all those "gun deaths" in Texas were accidental.

.

[slackmaster]

27. You've proved beyond any doubt you have no idea what my agenda is

Thanks.

[iverglas]

29. oh goodie

It hadn't even occurred to me that there was an agenda behind what you'd written.

Yup, "gun deaths" and "gun murders" aren't the same thing. That is 100% true.

I just couldn't (and can't) figure out what point you were driving at by saying so in this situation. Pass the mustard, red herring all round, is all I get out of it.

.

[slackmaster]

31. Yes, red herrings all around from all sides

Now you're starting to understand.

[MrBenchley]

35. I trhink slack's agenda has always been clear....

Slackmaster (#32): "The presence of a few idiots in Nazi uniforms need not spoil a family outing."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=22105

"slackmaster
47. Who is this "RKBA crowd" you keep referring to?
However I will concede that now that I've read it I don't see anything at all wrong with the GOP's platform."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=20403&mesg_id=20484&page=


"slackmaster
38. It's the Big Lie strategy"
"slackmaster
58. Nice try but it's still based on a major LIE"
"slackmaster
65. If I may be so bold as to speak for the entire "RKBA crowd"
We aren't saying they are lying."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=20875&mesg_id=20875

And hardly worth the hearing...ever.

[slackmaster]

36. MrBenchley doesn't understand my intentions or motives either

But he doesn't understand much about anything.

[OpSomBlood]

39. Keep in mind, he also thinks there are no pro-gun Democrats...

...when 39% of Democrats own a gun.

[MrBenchley]

40. I didn't say that, op...

I just said they were too cowardly to open their yaps and say anything pro-Democrat where another gun owner might hear them...and in two hours I've yet to be proved wrong.

But then we both know what's peeping out from behind that gun rights sheet, and it's no more "Democrat" than it is "mint flavored."

[slackmaster]

42. Another post by MrBenchley with no sign of logic or reason

As if these forums weren't visible to anyone with a Web browser.

:eyes:

[Pert_UK]

88. Hmmmm....dodgy

333 firearms deaths in Australia in 2001.

29,573 in the USA.

Using your figures, multiply Australia's gun death rate by 15 to reach the same population level as the US, and you get to 4995.

Which means that the US has approximately 6 times the gun death rate of Australia, if you look at the total gun deaths over total population.

AUSTRALIA:
http://www.theage.com.au/ffxImage/urlpicture_id_1072908910347_2004/01/02/0301a4,0.gif


US Stats:
http://thegreenman.net.au/mt/archives/000473.html

[MrBenchley]

12. Police Arrest Suspect In Fatal Springfield Shooting

"Police have arrested a suspect in a deadly Springfield shooting in April.
According to police, Raymond Anderson shot and killed 19-year-old Eddie Suttles when the two got into an argument on April 27. "

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/wjxt/20040512/lo_wjxt/2203058

[MrBenchley]

30. Teen arrested on weapons charges

"An Ardmore teenager was arrested on weapons charges Wednesday when police served a search warrant at his D Street SE residence, recovering two illegal guns.
Sgt. Rick Reynolds, Ardmore Police Department Criminal Investigation, said an investigation targeting the 17-year-old male was started Wednesday morning when a man reported the teenager used a gun to assault him Tuesday night.
"The victim came in and reported he was renting space in his house to the 17-year-old. He said Tuesday night the teenager confronted him with a handgun. Based on that report and other information gathered, Officer Johnnie Wilson and Cpl. Randy O'Hanlon obtained a search warrant."

http://www.ardmoreite.com/stories/051304/loc_teenarr.shtml

And the NRA publishes a gun magazine for kids...disgraceful.

[OpSomBlood]

43. A magazine that promotes gun safety and adult supervision.

The "disgraceful" thing is the straw (or black market) purchases that led to this kid's possession of guns.

[MrBenchley]

59. Piss on the NRA

They publish a magazine that peddles guns to kids...and that IS a disgrace...

[MrBenchley]

33. Northglenn Student Arrested For Allegedly Taking Gun To School (CO)

"A Northglenn High School student was taken into custody earlier this week for taking a handgun to school.
A police officer assigned to the school campus received a tip from an anonymous student that a boy was on school grounds with a handgun.
The 16-year-old Westminster boy was identified and arrested without incident on May 11. The school resource officer recovered a small handgun from him. "

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/3301359/detail.html

[OpSomBlood]

44. Arrest the parents.

n/t

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[MrBenchley]

37. State rests case in murder trial (SC)

"After shooting his father, 15-year-old Christopher Franklin allegedly pumped his shotgun, fired again and then turned the gun on his stepmother.
Franklin, now 29, is facing trial this week on two murder charges in the April 29, 1990, slayings of Ronnie and Vickie Franklin at their Bluffton home.
Not even 24 hours after beginning trial Tuesday evening, Solicitor Randolph Murdaugh rested the state's case against Franklin for the second time in 14 years Wednesday afternoon."

http://www.lowcountrynow.com/stories/051304/LOCtrial.shtml

[OpSomBlood]

46. This is not a current gun story.

Can we all post stories from crimes that happened 14 years ago?

[MrBenchley]

47. published 5/13/04

[MrBenchley]

45. Assault charge becomes murder (NC)

"A Midway Park man, who was arrested in February for assaulting his ex-wife's husband, was arrested Wednesday and charged with murder after the man died from shotgun wounds.
Mike McGaha, of Pickett Road in Jacksonville, died May 7 from buckshot wounds to his femur, bladder, thigh and abdomen, Onslow County Sheriff Ed Brown reported.
Mark Anthony West, 39, of Reindeer Circle, was arrested early Wednesday and placed in Onslow County Jail under $100,000 bond, Brown said. "

http://www.jdnews.com/SiteProcessor.cfm?Template=/GlobalTemplates/Details.cfm&StoryID=22569&Section=News

[MrBenchley]

49. Police subdue armed man after standoff (NY)

"JOHNSON CITY -- Training and quick action by two village police officers averted a potentially deadly confrontation when a despondent man threatened officers with a loaded shotgun, Johnson City Police Chief Stephen Korutz said Wednesday.
Police had attempted to talk to Dixon, who was inside his home. He was armed with a loaded 20-gauge shotgun and a small arsenal of weapons, including shotguns, rifles, knives and ammunition.
Hozempa said he and Agati left the house to wait outside as Johnson City police, detectives, negotiators and the department's Special Response Team, as well as Broome County sheriff's deputies, began to assemble at the scene.
Korutz said police had their guns drawn when Dixon unexpectedly stepped outside. "

http://www.pressconnects.com/today/news/stories/ne051304s89103.shtml

[MrBenchley]

50. Gary man dies Monday of 7-day-old gunshot wound

"A Gary man who died Monday at The Methodist Hospitals Northlake Campus in Gary had been treated days earlier for a gunshot wound and released from an Illinois hospital.
James Doss, 45, 252 Harrison St., was shot in the mouth on May 3 in the 300 block of Harrison Street, according to the Lake County coroner's log."

http://www.thetimesonline.com/articles/2004/05/13/news/region_and_state/cb68fdf6facf72ca86256e930017b0e7.txt

[RamboLiberal]

53. Man charged in random shooting of Fairywood woman(Pittsburgh, PA)

http://www.post-gazette.com/breaking/20040513shootp4.asp

Pittsburgh police made an arrest this afternoon in the shooting death of a mother of five caught in random gunfire during a street argument.

Kevin Grace, 22, of Village Road in the city's Fairywood section, was arrested without incident at 2:30 p.m. in Coraopolis.

He has been charged in the death of Gwendolyn Jones, 47, who was apparently walking to her house when she was shot in the head on Fairywood Street in the Broadhead Manor complex around 10:30 p.m. yesterday. She died at the scene.

Police said she was walking home and was not apparently involved with the suspect, who stood on the hood of a car waving a gun and arguing with several other men.

At one point, the suspect struck Walter Lovette, 18, with the gun and then shot him in the leg, police said. He then began firing randomly, and that’s when Jones was hit. The suspect fled in a car with two other men, with several men on the street reportedly firing at the car.

[MrBenchley]

78. Georgia mayor shot in apparent suicide attempt

"Union Point, Georgia-AP -- Police say the mayor of a small town in Georgia apparently attempted suicide this morning, just hours before he was to appear before a grand jury investigating fraud allegations.
Ben Stewart, the mayor of Union Point, had called police before dawn, saying he was going to take his life. By the time officers arrived, he had shot himself in the head with a 38-caliber handgun, but was still alive."

http://www.wpri.com/Global/story.asp?S=1864876

[MrBenchley]

80. Dothan Armed Robbery

"A surveillance camera inside the Texaco Station at the corner of Highway 231 and Napier Field Road recorded the robbery.
Police say a man entered the store around 1 a.m. Wednesday morning armed with a handgun. He demanded cash and made off with an undisclosed amount of money.
Fortunately, no one was injured in the hold-up."

http://www.wtvynews4.com/home/headlines/770982.html

[MrBenchley]

84. Man Found Shot Near Local Police Station Dies (OH)

"Police found Chad Re inside a vehicle with a gunshot wound to the head Tuesday night.
Re was able to speak with police that night, and told them the shooting happened in West Chester, WLWT Eyewitness News 5 reported.
Re died at Miami Valley Hospital Wednesday afternoon. "

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/wdiv/20040513/lo_wlwt/2203916

B-b-b-b-but wasn't the CCW law supposed to PREVENT things like this? (snicker)